Adding solar to an old on grid homestead

[Alaskajohn]

I am finishing the last of my priority infrastructure upgrades to this old Alaskan homestead this summer and my mind is drifting a bit towards "what's next." This particular project this summer will result in an ideal place to store the batteries in a large, dry space that will naturally maintain about 52 degrees and about 30% humidity (or less) year round.

The cabin is hooked up to the grid, but we are hundreds of miles from the power plant and outages are fairly frequent, but typically only 6-8 hours at most. The place was wired likely in the 80s. The big draws would be a 240 volt well pump, an electric water heater and such. Several years ago a contractor doing electrical work said that a 8K generator would be more than adequate after doing some calculations for a generator to power the whole house.

In order to get max effectiveness out of a combo grid/solar system, do you need to rewire or replace some of the less efficient electrical items and replace with more solar friendly systems?

I know cost will be an issue, as I don't have unlimited money. I imagine the cost of putting in a solar system that could provide 100% replacement for grid power would be extensive particularly since the sun doesn't rise above the southern mountains for about two months of the year which would necessitate a fuel driven generator for perhaps 3-4 months of winter with no or little sunlight.

I am making the once every 2 month big trip to the city this Friday and plan on stopping off at one of those stores that cater to off grid homes. It would be good to be armed with the right perspective and questions so I don't waste their time and mine if this turns out to be too expensive. I figure I can make this work if everything comes in at $10K or less. I could always do this in phases and put in either a generator or solar next year, and then complete the project the following year. I am eager to do something to help lower future rising energy cost and disruption as I see this in our future as a nation and world. So solar first, then generator next might be the way to go since I am expecting both to not pencil out at $10K or less.

 

[Neb]

I am finishing the last of my priority infrastructure upgrades to this old Alaskan homestead this summer and my mind is drifting a bit towards "what's next." This particular project this summer will result in an ideal place to store the batteries in a large, dry space that will naturally maintain about 52 degrees and about 30% humidity (or less) year round.

The cabin is hooked up to the grid, but we are hundreds of miles from the power plant and outages are fairly frequent, but typically only 6-8 hours at most. The place was wired likely in the 80s. The big draws would be a 240 volt well pump, an electric water heater and such. Several years ago a contractor doing electrical work said that a 8K generator would be more than adequate after doing some calculations for a generator to power the whole house.

In order to get max effectiveness out of a combo grid/solar system, do you need to rewire or replace some of the less efficient electrical items and replace with more solar friendly systems?

I know cost will be an issue, as I don't have unlimited money. I imagine the cost of putting in a solar system that could provide 100% replacement for grid power would be extensive particularly since the sun doesn't rise above the southern mountains for about two months of the year which would necessitate a fuel driven generator for perhaps 3-4 months of winter with no or little sunlight.

I am making the once every 2 month big trip to the city this Friday and plan on stopping off at one of those stores that cater to off grid homes. It would be good to be armed with the right perspective and questions so I don't waste their time and mine if this turns out to be too expensive. I figure I can make this work if everything comes in at $10K or less. I could always do this in phases and put in either a generator or solar next year, and then complete the project the following year. I am eager to do something to help lower future rising energy cost and disruption as I see this in our future as a nation and world. So solar first, then generator next might be the way to go since I am expecting both to not pencil out at $10K or less.

2 months without solar is a challenge.

The flipant answer is

You just need 2 months of battery storage.

How much is that can be determined by looking at your electrical usage for those 2 months. The kilowatt hours tells tou the minimum amount or battery. Add a factor for non-ideal systems and just in case.

Sounds like the water heater will be the biggest load. If you could convert that to propane that may be a way to reduce the electrical load.

I have read about outside wood fired furnaces that had a water heater option.

Generator

I read the owners manual for a generac standby generator. The operative word is "standby". They are not designed as an alternate to the the grid and intended for temporary use and not 24x7 for 2 months.

Solar panels and batteries

I will let @viking comment on how they dont last forever and need replaced eventually.

Let us know how it goes

Ben

 

[SheepDog]

Converting a water heater to a different fuel is just transferring the cost to a different pocket of the same wallet. Reducing the cost can be done with a heat pump but it still requires electricity although not as much. Idealy you would put more PV panels in place to cover that load and reduce the use of less critical loads. Running the water heater for just two hours a day for bathing and cleaning (dishes and clothes) can reduce the load considerably.
It all comes down to cost and convenience.

 

[Alaskajohn]

If SHTF, I am really not worried about heating water. For the past 6 years, I have not had running water in the house 7 months each year, and I have been heating water on top of the woodstove for bathing, washing dishes etc. The construction project this summer will allow me to have running water for the 7 months I normally do not.

My thoughts: If push came to shove, I could run the well pump for 5 minutes every three days to fill buckets like I have been doing with my grid powered electricity (or generator if the power is out) that will allow me to live like I have been living if I lose grid power and simply not power the water heater? I know some folks use the generator to charge the batteries during the dark winter months, but then you would need to be really energy efficient. I know the old school non-energy efficient stuff I have will drain batteries quickly.

I am not necessarily trying to solve for long term SHTF total grid down scenarios with this system. Really just trying to put infrastructure in place that would provide for some some back up to occasional grid outages and also help with savings in the future when energy prices start to rise as Biden kills fossil fuels.

Super good responses so far!

 

[Hardcalibres]

I would say the big question is determining the differences between needs and wants

The approach I have taken is this:

1) Rather than look at my house and say "how do I run everything that I have now?", I chose to look at it in the following different way....
2) "When I go camping, what do I power that is essential" and "If I was using my house as a (wood heated) shelter to camp in, how would I use my camping solar power system to support that and run the other stuff that I really need?"

By doing that, the amount of power I need dropped dramatically and is only used to power the essentials. It also meant that I could utilize electric camping gear that I already have (like portable solar panels, controllers, cables, fridges, lights, communications gear, cooking equipment, etc, etc)

The other advantages are that my gear is all portable - so it can be used at the house or relocated anywhere (if evacuation were necessary. Being portable can also make the gear easier to conceal (ie easier than concealing roof mounted solar panels) and less likely to get worn out before a real emergency comes along.

I have used this gear when we had power outs for several days before - and it proved capable of running the system and our domestic fridges. That proved to be all we really needed.

The most recent project I have done on this front is buying and then upgrading a 21' camper trailer to tow behind one of my Unimogs. I have set it up with 500Ah of LiFePO4 batteries, a battery management system, 3000W sine wave inverter, 680W of solar hard mounted to the roof, 860W of ground mount solar blankets, 600W of semi flexible panels on the roof of the Unimog. That system can run everything in the camper (even aircond/heat, electric stove, electric hot water heater). The trailer would not be insulated enough for an Alaskan winter........but it is a good "life boat" for a grid down emergency. Being relocatable and offroad capable are among it's biggest strengths.

In Alaska, a generator may well be essential. It may also be the best way to run a well pump. I know of others here who have a well pump combined with surface tanks that mean they would only need to run a generator for an hour or so a month. The fuel for a generator run that way could last a long time.

 

[Rebecca]

I can't comment on a combined system, and that 2 months without light is a problem.
But I can give you the brutal, not for city people and their ridiculous number of appliances, way to be 100 % off grid for the 10 months you do have light.
First, get rid of everything that draws too much power. 240 volts is out. 12 and 24 volts is in.
The water heater goes. Get an attachment for your wood cook stove that heats the water.
The well pump goes. Get a 12 volt one. They are slower for sure, and it depends on the depth, but mine can go down to 100 feet submerged, and pump to 200 feet overall.
The freezer and fridge if they are "normal" go. There are 12 and 24 volt super insulated ones that work very well for low draw on wattage.
All lighting should be LED.
And on and on.
It's difficult to convert an existing lifestyle.
Solar panels will be good for about 25 years if you refrain from dropping trees on them, take them in during hurricanes etc. The batteries are a much more common replacement.
We have 2 separate solar systems, mostly because the first one was a super easy set up for when we were beginners. Both work and are expandable to a point. Keep in mind that some systems can be charge through wind as well. Wind technology for the individual is perhaps not as effective and low maintenance as solar yet, but it is an option.

 

[Biggkidd]

It can be done many different ways. We have been 100% off grid for 13 years now. It doesn't take a 8KW generator either unless you are one of those people who have to be able to turn everything on at once. We get by with a 2KW inverter / charger and a EU2000 generator 2400 watts of panels. Granted that is going a little far in the other direction. I hope to expand our system sooner rather than later and already have more panels.

First and foremost figure out every way possible to cut electrical use as far as possible. Timers can be a huge help here power strips also. Timers keep more than one or two large draw items from being able to run at one time. All those phantom loads from today's electronics add up so cut them off via power strips or switches manually. Get rid of any low efficiency appliances for high efficiency change everything you can to be gas or wood fired. IE: gas stove gas, water heater, gas heat. All of those can also be done with wood. For 8 years we used a 50 gallon wood fired water heater. The main problem with it was it worked to well so well in fact it would blow out the sacrificial pipe if you didn't keep it restricted some! Now we have gone to DC heating element in a standard household hot water heater.

I wouldn't even try and back feed grid power I would set up a backup system for when the grid is down. A good pure sine wave inverter / charger can also recharge the batteries from a generator when the grid is down or from the grid when it's up. Don't skimp on a solar charge controller. I strongly recommend Midnite Solar. Ours lasted over ten years of continuous use without a hiccup until the fans went bad and they gave me warning I just wasn't paying enough attention. Replacement fans were less than $40... Go with higher voltages 48 volts or more as they are the most economical in the long run. Especially with the wire cost savings.

Second think hard about how normal you want to be able to live with ONLY your microgrid you build. Then you can figure your actual needs versus wants. We choose to live as if we have grid power for the most part.

Third and this is important make sure to get enough generator to run both your loads and recharge your battery bank in a reasonable time frame. We undersized there a bit. I also HIGHLY recommend the EU line of generators by Honda. My friend and part time neighbor has had real good luck with harbor freights 3500 watt predator generator, but that appears to be hit or miss some good ones some bad ones. I have personally put over 20,000 hours yes you read that right twenty thousand hours on 2 Honda EU2000 generators before they went south! Mobil 1 oil is great stuff and actually saved us 1/2 gallon of fuel every 24 hours over conventional motor oil. But every engine should be broken in with conventional oil in my opinion! The rings don't seat properly in my experience with synthetic oils during breakin.

Fourth Batteries I use AGM type and prefer them at this time although I'd love to have iron edison's. B=Good used batteries can be had if you look for takeouts from hospitals, banks etc. They have to change them out for insurance purposes long before they are toast. Often times they have only been USED a half dozen times in the three years they can keep them! ! !

If you have questions I will do my best to answer. But be warned I am no expert I have just been living the life for a long time.

 

[hiwall]

I would think the most cost effective way would be to just get a 8k generator and store a bunch of fuel.
For what the solar would cost you also buy a spare 8k generator and buy a big fuel tank along with fuel.
Solar is expensive and likely a very poor choice in your location.

 

[Alaskajohn]

Again, all useful advice. I much appreciate the input and your consideration of my silly questions!

Honestly, all my preps up to this point has been geared towards living without any electricity. I can heat water on a woodstove just fine and this is how I have lived for 6 plus winters at this place. I have galvanized well buckets that can pull water from my 110 foot well just fine. I have had to live like this out of necessity, but the construction project should allow me to have this new problem of what to do if the power goes out as I now have the opportunity or the problem of having modern conveniences where I haven't in the past. I have had other threads in the past on how to prep for the future, what to do to help as you age on an old homestead, so some of this is with my getting older in mind. Making things just a bit easier as I get more seasoned in life.

It does appear to offer me opportunity to have reliable solar for much of the year as when I get sun, I get ample sun. I could simply revert back to old methods as I slowly add to capabilities and upgrade appliances to be more energy efficient over time.

Again, I can spend about $10K a year each year for the next three years until this funding stream evaporates. I am hoping I can get this done in just 2 $10K installments and not need that third investment of precious cash. If this doesn't pencil out I have many other infrastructure projects that are competing for the money. But this does look like it is something to consider.

 

[Alaskajohn]

I would think the most cost effective way would be to just get a 8k generator and store a bunch of fuel.
For what the solar would cost you also buy a spare 8k generator and buy a big fuel tank along with fuel.
Solar is expensive and likely a very poor choice in your location.

I have thought of that seriously. This was my thinking up until now, and really, solar has something I have discounted. But I have had recent positive exposure to the technology that has caused me to consider it.

I would need a big fuel storage tank as it will be very hard to bring additional gas up the mountain during much of the winter except in 5 gallon increment! But yes, something to contemplate and consider.

 

[Biggkidd]

AT the rate things are going now gas / diesel will soon be unaffordable or unobtainable, so you may want to keep that in mind. Also all things mechanical need maintenance and do suffer breakdowns then again so do electronics.

 

[Alaskajohn]

It can be done many different ways. We have been 100% off grid for 13 years now. It doesn't take a 8KW generator either unless you are one of those people who have to be able to turn everything on at once. We get by with a 2KW inverter / charger and a EU2000 generator 2400 watts of panels. Granted that is going a little far in the other direction. I hope to expand our system sooner rather than later and already have more panels.

First and foremost figure out every way possible to cut electrical use as far as possible. Timers can be a huge help here power strips also. Timers keep more than one or two large draw items from being able to run at one time. All those phantom loads from today's electronics add up so cut them off via power strips or switches manually. Get rid of any low efficiency appliances for high efficiency change everything you can to be gas or wood fired. IE: gas stove gas, water heater, gas heat. All of those can also be done with wood. For 8 years we used a 50 gallon wood fired water heater. The main problem with it was it worked to well so well in fact it would blow out the sacrificial pipe if you didn't keep it restricted some! Now we have gone to DC heating element in a standard household hot water heater.

I wouldn't even try and back feed grid power I would set up a backup system for when the grid is down. A good pure sine wave inverter / charger can also recharge the batteries from a generator when the grid is down or from the grid when it's up. Don't skimp on a solar charge controller. I strongly recommend Midnite Solar. Ours lasted over ten years of continuous use without a hiccup until the fans went bad and they gave me warning I just wasn't paying enough attention. Replacement fans were less than $40... Go with higher voltages 48 volts or more as they are the most economical in the long run. Especially with the wire cost savings.

Second think hard about how normal you want to be able to live with ONLY your microgrid you build. Then you can figure your actual needs versus wants. We choose to live as if we have grid power for the most part.

Third and this is important make sure to get enough generator to run both your loads and recharge your battery bank in a reasonable time frame. We undersized there a bit. I also HIGHLY recommend the EU line of generators by Honda. My friend and part time neighbor has had real good luck with harbor freights 3500 watt predator generator, but that appears to be hit or miss some good ones some bad ones. I have personally put over 20,000 hours yes you read that right twenty thousand hours on 2 Honda EU2000 generators before they went south! Mobil 1 oil is great stuff and actually saved us 1/2 gallon of fuel every 24 hours over conventional motor oil. But every engine should be broken in with conventional oil in my opinion! The rings don't seat properly in my experience with synthetic oils during breakin.

Fourth Batteries I use AGM type and prefer them at this time although I'd love to have iron edison's. B=Good used batteries can be had if you look for takeouts from hospitals, banks etc. They have to change them out for insurance purposes long before they are toast. Often times they have only been USED a half dozen times in the three years they can keep them! ! !

If you have questions I will do my best to answer. But be warned I am no expert I have just been living the life for a long time.

You gave me a lot to chew on. Great input. I have been really thinking "minimalism" up until now due to significant limitations of our cabin design that is being fixed. Others have pointed out needs verses wants as well. And as I understand the budgetary, environmental and technology limitations and opportunities, I can better assess how many of the wants I can accommodate. I will definitely need to ask the off grid energy store about generator size to both run the homestead and charge the batteries.

Would you think generator install first and solar second, or does the sequence matter given the $10K yearly budget?

 

[Alaskajohn]

AT the rate things are going now gas / diesel will soon be unaffordable or unobtainable, so you may want to keep that in mind. Also all things mechanical need maintenance and do suffer breakdowns then again so do electronics.

I also looked at propane, but at -35 F, I have been told that running a generator becomes very inefficient. I did like the long shelf life of propane. I am also worried about fossil fuel availability and prices.

 

[Sourdough]

I bought a 10,000 watt generator at COSTCO in Los'Anchorage that is "Multi-Fuel" (Gasoline or Propane) cost $699.00 (You could even buy two and leave one in the box for ten years.

Propane if not use will still be good in a few hundred years......so about as good as it gets for long term storage. Home Depot and Lowes both sell huge propane tanks. I would "Own" the tank rather then rent from the propane company. You could switch to Propane Hot Water heater. or keep the existing and have redundant (if SHTF).

I also like having things that I can move to a different property, should I choose to do that. I have also learned that buyers of property are reluctant to see the value of $10,000.00 solar system that to them might appear "complex and vexing".

I current property is worth "Sooo Much" money I can't sell it without subdividing it into tiny lots, and I live in a small shack.

 

[Bacpacker]

AJ, Generators in the 8k or less range won't eat up your full 10K budget. Well in Alaska I expect prices would be higher than here, but still less than 10K. The EU2000 Bigkidd mentioned are around $1000. A EU3500 runs around $2000. I've used the Eu 2000 I have for years and had trouble free service the entire time. Very fuel efficent, Full sine wave inverter built in.
But to me the genny would be for back up and dark period only. Fuel cost will get nuts within the next few years (worse than they already are).
Question for you, do you have decent wind during the dark period? I imagine any creeks would freeze during winter, so hydro would be out.

 

[Rebecca]

If you are happy with a simple lifestyle, and you install it yourself, 10k on a solar system will set you up very well. Our set up cost less than CAD8k.
But we live very minimalist compared to most people. In fact most would run away lol

We do have a generator that only gets turned on for the jobs that require 120 or 240 volt high watt applications. Splitting wood, table saws, circular saws, welding etc

That 8k however does not include converting existing appliances to off grid ones simply because before the solar we had no electricity at all, and hence no appliances.

 

[Biggkidd]

Personally I would pickup a cheap used generator for a couple hundred something up to 5kw and get solar ASAP.

I like Renogy panels we have some ten years old still providing damn near if not 100% of their rated power.

Aims makes decent inverter charges for affordable prices with good longevity. There are better ones I am sure but balancing cost versus performance AIms is hard to beat.

Midnite solar Is the best charge controller in my opinion and well worth the price. They have come down quite a lot near 50% in fact since I bought mine. Depending on what voltage system you decide to go with will determine which model you want I have the Classic 150. It can handle up to 5,000 watts at 48 volts!

One thing a lot of people miss is the fact you do not have to point all your panels in a single direction. Point some for morning some for mid day and some for afternoon. That stretches your charging and loading abilities. DO high draw things like washing clothes when the sun is out...

Personally I would shop around and wouldn't be likely to buy from a off grid store unless it was the best deal!

In reality I expect you can setup a good working system for under 10K. Let me throw some numbers at you.

$1500 4K inverter charger by Aims from whoever has it cheapest at the moment
$ 700 Midnite solar classic 250 again whoever is running a sale
$350 Renogy 320 watt 24 volt panels

Now lets just say for fun you're getting

16) 320 watt panels = 5120 watts That's $5600 but you can get a better price
1) Midnite solar classic $700
1) Aims 48 volt 4000 watt pure sine wave inverter charger $1500

Now you've spent $7800 and you're most of the way there. You still need odds and ends IE circuit breakers wires cables and batteries. Batteries taken out of hospitals & banks like I mentioned before can usually be bought for scrap price of lead so whatever that is in your area.

What I have listed there is not stedfast have to have but it will run most households with reasonable people and if you search hard I bet you can beat those quotes!

For that size system I would want roughly 2400 amp hours of batteries at 48 volts which is going to add up a bit depending on what kind of deals you can find.

Now something most people have a hard time understanding is you do not actually have 2400 amp hours of battery you can use. There are a lot of factors in play mainly battery lifespan. Which in order to get the best bang for your buck you'd want to figure on about 400 amp hours useable out of that 2400 which is actually closer to 200 amp hours at 120 volt household current. We get by with 60 amp hours useable at 120 volts.

Confused yet?

 

[Biggkidd]

AJ, Generators in the 8k or less range won't eat up your full 10K budget. Well in Alaska I expect prices would be higher than here, but still less than 10K. The EU2000 Bigkidd mentioned are around $1000. A EU3500 runs around $2000. I've used the Eu 2000 I have for years and had trouble free service the entire time. Very fuel efficent, Full sine wave inverter built in.
But to me the genny would be for back up and dark period only. Fuel cost will get nuts within the next few years (worse than they already are).
Question for you, do you have decent wind during the dark period? I imagine any creeks would freeze during winter, so hydro would be out.

Don't forget wind turbines freeze up in cold weather and makes no power

 

[Hardcalibres]

Regarding what to buy first - I would make a list of what you need (for the combined generator/solar system) in the way of hardware (and where it comes from) and installation consumables - and then prioritze the imported hardware first (that may become less or un obtainable) and then put the installation gear on lower priority.

The imported hardware may well never again be cheaper than it is now........

 

[kd4ulw]

It is not efficient to try to heat water with an electric solar system. You use solar thermal panels to heat the water or in cold climates to heat an antifreeze solution into a heat exchanger. But, you live too far north for this to be effective year round.

 

[Biggkidd]

It is not efficient to try to heat water with an electric solar system. You use solar thermal panels to heat the water or in cold climates to heat an antifreeze solution into a heat exchanger. But, you live too far north for this to be effective year round.

View attachment 68156

I disagree DC elements do NOT require anything but panels, wire and a thermostat. No charge controller no inverter nothing else. It should be setup as it's own system or pulled directly from the panels BEFORE the charge controller. A larger than normal tank is a good idea though that gives you a bank of hot water. Oh and one more thing a DC 1000 watt element with thermostat can be had for about $30

 

[UrbanHunter]

Hey @Alaskajohn

I know you said you heat water on the stove, have you looked into a range boiler setup for hot water, they are pretty low tech but they don't have to tie up you stove top to have hot water when you need it.

Here is a picture of one, a stainless steel boiler tank on a shelf and gravity fed heating coils around the stove flue pipe.

 

[UrbanHunter]

I have thought about adding a thermo-electric generator (TEG) module to my flat backed wood stove, but I would only be able to get about 30 watts and the cost is just too high for a small battery charger at this time.

 

[Rebecca]

Hey @Alaskajohn

I know you said you heat water on the stove, have you looked into a range boiler setup for hot water, they are pretty low tech but they don't have to tie up you stove top to have hot water when you need it.
View attachment 68158
Here is a picture of one, a stainless steel boiler tank on a shelf and gravity fed heating coils around the stove flue pipe.

It's a brilliant concept...except not exactly like that one lol. The pipes are the wrong way around.

 

[UrbanHunter]

When I grabbed the picture I didn't even look @Rebecca, but you are right the cold should enter at the bottom and the hot exit at the top of the coil loop because the heat rising is what makes the water flow Good eye girl, I want you auditing my work..

 

[Alaskajohn]

AJ, Generators in the 8k or less range won't eat up your full 10K budget. Well in Alaska I expect prices would be higher than here, but still less than 10K. The EU2000 Bigkidd mentioned are around $1000. A EU3500 runs around $2000. I've used the Eu 2000 I have for years and had trouble free service the entire time. Very fuel efficent, Full sine wave inverter built in.
But to me the genny would be for back up and dark period only. Fuel cost will get nuts within the next few years (worse than they already are).
Question for you, do you have decent wind during the dark period? I imagine any creeks would freeze during winter, so hydro would be out.

Odd, but while we have a good breeze most of the year when we have sun, during the long winters when it is very cold it is usually absolutely still (I love this) or it’s 60 plus MPH winds that might last for a day or two, then followed by weeks of no wind.

The good news about the sun, is that when it rises above the southern mountains, I almost instantly go to 7 hours a day of sunlight, and I add about 6-7 minutes a day of additional sunlight.

 

[Alaskajohn]

I bought a 10,000 watt generator at COSTCO in Los'Anchorage that is "Multi-Fuel" (Gasoline or Propane) cost $699.00 (You could even buy two and leave one in the box for ten years.

Propane if not use will still be good in a few hundred years......so about as good as it gets for long term storage. Home Depot and Lowes both sell huge propane tanks. I would "Own" the tank rather then rent from the propane company. You could switch to Propane Hot Water heater. or keep the existing and have redundant (if SHTF).

I also like having things that I can move to a different property, should I choose to do that. I have also learned that buyers of property are reluctant to see the value of $10,000.00 solar system that to them might appear "complex and vexing".

I current property is worth "Sooo Much" money I can't sell it without subdividing it into tiny lots, and I live in a small shack.

I know an owner of a propane supplier up north who tells me that a lot of “end of the road” preppers will get large 500 gal plus underground propane tanks, wrap them with heating tape and bury underground and this works effectively during winters much colder than I experience. He said this was against code where they have codes. Of course, no codes exist in most of Alaska!

 

[Alaskajohn]

Personally I would pickup a cheap used generator for a couple hundred something up to 5kw and get solar ASAP.

I like Renogy panels we have some ten years old still providing damn near if not 100% of their rated power.

Aims makes decent inverter charges for affordable prices with good longevity. There are better ones I am sure but balancing cost versus performance AIms is hard to beat.

Midnite solar Is the best charge controller in my opinion and well worth the price. They have come down quite a lot near 50% in fact since I bought mine. Depending on what voltage system you decide to go with will determine which model you want I have the Classic 150. It can handle up to 5,000 watts at 48 volts!

One thing a lot of people miss is the fact you do not have to point all your panels in a single direction. Point some for morning some for mid day and some for afternoon. That stretches your charging and loading abilities. DO high draw things like washing clothes when the sun is out...

Personally I would shop around and wouldn't be likely to buy from a off grid store unless it was the best deal!

In reality I expect you can setup a good working system for under 10K. Let me throw some numbers at you.

$1500 4K inverter charger by Aims from whoever has it cheapest at the moment
$ 700 Midnite solar classic 250 again whoever is running a sale
$350 Renogy 320 watt 24 volt panels

Now lets just say for fun you're getting

16) 320 watt panels = 5120 watts That's $5600 but you can get a better price
1) Midnite solar classic $700
1) Aims 48 volt 4000 watt pure sine wave inverter charger $1500

Now you've spent $7800 and you're most of the way there. You still need odds and ends IE circuit breakers wires cables and batteries. Batteries taken out of hospitals & banks like I mentioned before can usually be bought for scrap price of lead so whatever that is in your area.

What I have listed there is not stedfast have to have but it will run most households with reasonable people and if you search hard I bet you can beat those quotes!

For that size system I would want roughly 2400 amp hours of batteries at 48 volts which is going to add up a bit depending on what kind of deals you can find.

Now something most people have a hard time understanding is you do not actually have 2400 amp hours of battery you can use. There are a lot of factors in play mainly battery lifespan. Which in order to get the best bang for your buck you'd want to figure on about 400 amp hours useable out of that 2400 which is actually closer to 200 amp hours at 120 volt household current. We get by with 60 amp hours useable at 120 volts.

Confused yet?

No, what you are saying is a bit like what that solar place told me the last time I was in town few months ago.

I do like the relatively low cost multi-fuel portable generators. My cabin is situated with southern exposure and I could easily have panels facing east, south and west. We have low cloud cover most days, so it should be relatively efficient.

It sounds like it is possible to get a lot of this done within budget the first year if I shop around. Shipping anything to alaska outside of Amazon Prime makes most things too expensive if you don’t go with a local vendor.

How often do the batteries need to be replaced, and roughly how much space would they take? I promised the wife a basement greenhouse so I need to make sure accommodate her space needs.

 

[Alaskajohn]

The imported hardware may well never again be cheaper than it is now........

That is a huge fear. Unfortunately, that cash won‘t mature until next year. I might be screwed. This fear caused me to invest a lot more than I wanted in this summer’s projects, and this summers projects were contracted 2 years ago as it takes 2 years advanced notice to get a contractor lined up. Fortunately a lot of material was purchased by the contractor for this project last year when everything was cheap. He just couldn’t pre-purchase the concrete.

 

[Alaskajohn]

Hey @Alaskajohn

I know you said you heat water on the stove, have you looked into a range boiler setup for hot water, they are pretty low tech but they don't have to tie up you stove top to have hot water when you need it.
View attachment 68158
Here is a picture of one, a stainless steel boiler tank on a shelf and gravity fed heating coils around the stove flue pipe.

That looks doable with how my wood stove is configured. Our wood stove has a flat top surface and during the winter we always have tea and a 3 gallon skillet full of hot water on it.