Bartering goods: Precious metals or other products?

[Longhorn]

This is a topic that has bothered me for some time and I hope some of you wise guys can help me out with this. In a total SHTF scenario, not a localized natural disaster, but a national/international disaster, global economic collapse, governmental collapse, etc. What would be the point of having precious metals? Gold or Silver bars, coins, boullion, etc.? and wouldn't there value instantly drop to near 0 if there is no economy to back it?

I never understood why some people and preppers alike, stock pile up precious metals thinking they will still hold value as currency or bartering value in a total collapse. I mean I understand it but logically it doesn't make sense to me in a SHTF scenario. I would think jewelry would be a little more useful than the raw material like bars/coins/etc. For example you might have an easier time bartering off a nice ring or necklace or something, but a solid bar or bag of coins with no economy to back it doesn't make logical sense to me.

If you want something to barter, then shouldn't you get into growing sugar cane, tobacco, fruits, vegetables, herbs, medicinal plants, etc.? And learning how to produce alcohol, or stock up on baby items like diapers and jarred food, clothing items like socks, shoes, underwear, which is something I've seen posters on here recommend... You know stuff that people are actually going to want and need.


Anyway, can you guys help me out with this?

 

[realisticdude]

You can't eat gold or silver. Some here will say that after the collapse , precious metals will help you retain your wealth / status when the economy recovers. If you can survive long enough and the new militia does not kill you and steal the gold.........................................I live back in the woods you see .

 

[jimLE]

your correct about gold and silverloseing value n all.and clothes veggies and other things will gain in value.but now one thought came to mind.lead will retain value to those who reload thier own ammo.so if you had some lead that i need for ammo.and if i had kids clothes food or some tools.then we could batar on things..

 

[DrHenley]

Gold has been valuable for at least 6,000 years of human history. It has kept its value through countless SHTFs down through the millennia.

Theorize all you want, I'm going with what's been proven time and time again.

Not saying I'm putting all my eggs in that basket however...

 

[jimLE]

ok,lets look at it this way..gold and silver will have thier value at first..then they loss value 2-3 months or 1 year after a shtf situation.and now here you are with gold and silver that you can spare..but yet you dont have any thing else to trade or barter with..what are you gonna do if you need certain food clotheing med(s) or what ever for your self,or someone else and they dont wont do buiseness with ya untill you come up with what they need..how you gonna get whats needed then? i know your not putting all your eggs into one basket n all...and thats great..BUT,unless the u.s. makes a good recovery and or what ever in our life time.i dont see any value in haveing it..

 

[realisticdude]

Gold has been valuable for at least 6,000 years of human history. It has kept its value through countless SHTFs down through the millennia.

Theorize all you want, I'm going with what's been proven time and time again.

Not saying I'm putting all my eggs in that basket however...

I'm not saying that a few gold eggs in my basket would not be nice , If one has the means for sure. But the average Joe is better off with supplies / guns and ammo. I think most on this site are economy preppers. It's hard to raise kids and prep and collect golden eggs.

 

[DrHenley]

Perhaps you overlooked this part:

Not saying I'm putting all my eggs in that basket however...

 

[jimLE]

that you did..just like you have your point and view on things..so do we..i guess i been saying that.i wont go with gold or silver,simply because to me.it wont have its value after a time.and i wont spend/waste my money on something that'll be worthless to me.but now,if you feel/beleave that they will have value after tshtf..then by all means go for it..

 

[DrHenley]

Gold is not for everyone, that's for sure. It was hard for me to buy gold in the beginning with the outrageous markups. It took months before I found some near the melt price. It's been a couple of months since I found any that I would buy. It takes a lot of work and patience to buy gold and not get ripped off.

Silver is a different story. You can find "junk silver" at near melt or even at melt prices fairly easily. If nothing else, you should at least try to build up a roll of silver quarters (40 per roll), which I think will be the easiest thing to use because they are instantly recognizable. The quarters will go for somewhere around $4.50 apiece (melt price is currently $4.09) and you can buy them gradually, like one or two a month.

 

[Prepped123]

Where would we find the quarters ?

 

[DrHenley]

Where would we find the quarters ?

You can get them on EvilBay, but I buy them at a local coin shop. They have bins full of every denomination of pre-64 coins. If the coins are in good shape there is a nominal margin, but coins that are worn just get dumped on a scale and they multiply by 0.9 and then by the current spot price for silver.

 

[Tyler]

Personally I'll be storing .22lr to use as currency. I'll be storing snare wire, alcohol, survival straws and some different caliber boxes of ammo. Personally if someone came in with silver and gold I'd trade with them but things that I need would be on the top of the list. A thing to think about with trading is if they bring in food. It could be poisoned. Just to keep in mind when you are trading.

 

[DrHenley]

Personally I'll be storing .22lr to use as currency. I
...A thing to think about with trading is if they bring in food. It could be poisoned. Just to keep in mind when you are trading.

Yep, and ammo can be duds or dangerous reloads, coins can be counterfeit, water can be contaminated, alcohol can have methanol in it (why you can go blind from drinking moonshine)

In the SHTF, Caveat Emptor (let the buyer beware).

 

[alabaster]

I tend to think that precious metals are only good if you have a market that demands them. That pretty much means having access to the world market since gold, silver, platinum, etc aren't really good in primitive style living or defensive purposes.

I'm looking for someone to show me otherwise, but I can't imagine trading for gold when my family needs to eat. If the power grid is out, then what good is gold? Platinum? Silver? Meh... I would rather stock up on alcohol, ammo, and other barter items that would be of legit use or even entertainment use than a shiny metal that doesn't do much.

My $.02

 

[DrHenley]

Why is Gold Money?
http://www.therichterreport.com/content.php?id=107&menu_id=-1&menu_item_id=82

An excerpt:

Some of the greatest minds have contemplated the reasons why we need to have money as a medium of exchange. In the 4th century B.C., Aristotle enumerated the characteristics required of money: durability, divisibility, convenience, consistency, and intrinsic value. What do these things mean? The best form of money will be something which, unlike wheat or corn, does not decay. It must not rust like iron. Money must also be divisible into uniform smaller units. One cannot do this with a rare painting or a diamond. Money must be consistent and uniform. Wheat, real estate, diamonds, and rare art are not uniform. Indeed, they can vary quite significantly in quality. Finally, money must have intrinsic value and uses.

When one considers all of the characteristics needed in money, it becomes clear that only something like a metal can fulfill ALL of the functions needed. Metals are divisible, consistent, and most have some intrinsic value. However, not all metals will suffice. Lead is too heavy, so it is not convenient. Iron rusts, so its durability is in question. After centuries of trial and error, human beings selected gold and, to a lesser extent, silver as the primary forms of money. No government ever had to pass a law mandating that gold or silver be used as legal tender. Gold and silver were selected because they fulfilled ALL of the requirements of money.

 

[Gazrok]

Precious metals will be valuable, but ONLY after things somewhat stabilized. Even then, it will be forever and a day until they will be worth (purchase power) what they were when you paid for it, so in my mind, a pretty bad prep. After a SHTF scenario, $500 worth of actual goods will have WAY more purchasing power than the same $500 in gold.

 

[Kenprep1979]

your correct about gold and silverloseing value n all.and clothes veggies and other things will gain in value.but now one thought came to mind.lead will retain value to those who reload thier own ammo.so if you had some lead that i need for ammo.and if i had kids clothes food or some tools.then we could batar on things..

And the beautiful thing about lead is its very soft and melts under a low temperature all you need is a ladle and a handheld torch then you can make a bar mold out of just about anything that wont melt under heat. , u can melt down old sinkers,washers used in chemical cylinders <------alot of these laying around were i work. Also if **** has already hit the fan you can hit up old buildings with cast iron plumbing and those joints will be full of poured lead.

 

[Kenprep1979]

I imagine a carton of smokes would be very high dollar post SHTF. To preserve them and keep freshness you just freeze them. Alcohol would be a high dollar item aswell i would imagine cus i dont care how much people are starving there is always someone who would rather have a drink!

 

[jimLE]

i watched a doomsday prepper show one time.where a father n son casted some rounds after the dad had gone out n colleted some whights that was used to balance car tires.they melted it down,then cleaned out the crud debree n all.then casted the rounds

 

[Mountain trapper]

Men have been selling their souls for gold since the beginning of time, and they always will. I've been buying and stockpiling gold since it was less than $250 per ounce and silver since it was around $3.00. (Also owned a placer gold mine for many years....) Its hidden away in mutable locations as well as ammo, lead, seeds, and many other items that have the potential for being more valuable than precious metals.
If a person is prepping on a budget, then gold and silver should be the last thing on their list of bartering items.

 

[DrHenley]

i watched a doomsday prepper show one time.where a father n son casted some rounds after the dad had gone out n colleted some whights that was used to balance car tires.they melted it down,then cleaned out the crud debree n all.then casted the rounds

What you need for smelting wheel weights is a cast iron pot (not too big!) and an outdoor burner of some sort. My gas grill has a side burner which is what I use.

You need a ladle that is either slotted or has a narrow spout for separating the crud from the lead.

Fill the pot with wheel weights and fire up the burner. After a while you'll have a sea of molten lead with crud floating in it. The hard part is scooping out the crud without wasting too much lead. You need to keep stirring the pot and you need to flux it with beeswax or rosin. Try to stay upwind of the pot, as there will be some unhealthy fumes.

Then pour the lead into an ingot mold. I use a cast iron cornbread pan for an ingot mold.

 

[jimLE]

my dad use to do that..but he used the lead for lead whights for lefting whights (working out)

 

[Myrrph]

I think the important thing to note is that when you try to barter and there is nothing in common mutually, there will be a need for some form of currency.

but some of you are correct. for the immediate future after the SHTF, gold will have almost no value. So if you are a supply prepper, might be good to trade your extras for gold. It'll be valuable after it stabilizes.

 

[Gazrok]

Even after stabilization though, it will be a LONG time before it gets to the value of what it was before things went to hell....

Bet I could buy a lot more trading cigarettes, booze, or food items.

 

[jimLE]

yeah.i bet i could get a gallon of water with a cartin of smokes before i get it with gold/silver or some other metal after tshtf happens.


lets say you have 2 pounds of gold or silver coins.and you come to me for some food n water for a day or two.do you think and/or beleave i'll acept the gold? no i wont.id rather go with some thing i'll need right then n there,or later on..be it for personal use or trade later on.

 

[Myrrph]

think the argument is that as a supply prepper and you have a ton and a half of prepping supplies, the extras can be traded for gold or silver.

I'm thinking longer term here. Initially selling your extra supplies or grown supplies could make you the big honcho in the new world and you can slowly build your kingdom from there. Of course, if we have one of those Waterworld kinda SHTF scenarios then we're all screwed.

 

[BerettaFan]

Right or wrong ... here's what I have done. It pretty much says what I think gold and silver will be worth after SHTF. I turned my silver into $$$$$ (yes ... I had silver quarters ... dimes, etc.) I then ... used the $$$$$ (while it still has some value) and invested in weapons, ammo and other assorted prepping goods. Some of these goods can be used for bartering purposes if need be.

If anyone chooses to continue to invest in gold and silver ... that is their prerogative and they will not get any argument from me, but I still think the motivation comes from greed and the unwillingness to 'let go'.

Of course ... values placed on everything including gold and silver will depend upon the severity of the SHTF situation. If it is short term ... and 'thing's' go back to somewhat normal ... gold and silver will have value, but I personally don't see that happening. That's not what I am preparing for.

A five gallon bucket of rice will be worth far more than a gold bar. Chances are I will not trade a bar of soap for a pre-1964 quarter.

A good question that everyone must ask themselves. "What will be more valuable to me when chaos reigns and I am trying to survive ... a roll of quarters or a roll of TP?"

 

[DrHenley]

Nobody is saying you should not have food, water, ammo, toilet paper, etc.

What everyone is going to find out is that these commodities will be valuable, but barter is terribly inefficient. There is a principle economists call "Coincidence of Wants." For barter to success, two parties must have something the other wants. At the same time, and at the same place.

So let's say you find that someone has something you want, lets say beans. And since toilet paper is so valuable, you carry along 20 rolls with you to trade with. But he doesn't want toilet paper, he wants rice. You simply can't carry everything you consider valuable around in your pocket.

As more and more people realize how terribly inefficient barter is, there will develop some medium of exchange that has the following properties:

It has units of account. Rounds of ammunition, Pounds of rice, rolls of toilet paper, ounces of gold, dollars and cents, etc.
It is portable. You can carry it around without having to carry it in a wheelbarrow. It will preferably fit in your pocket or wallet.
It is durable. It doesn't quickly rust, rot, spoil, or corrode.
It is divisible. A rifle may be valuable, but you can't very well divide in two and expect it to retain any value.
It is fungible (interchangeable without changing value). The one you have is worth the same as the one I have.
It is a store of value. It will still be valuable ten years from now.

Something that has all of these properties is called "real money". The dollar has lost something like 95% of its value since we went off the Bretton Woods gold-backed system in 1971, when it became "fiat money" so it fails the last test.


Since the sixth century B.C., gold coins have been the preferred form of "real money" all over the world.

As Winston Churchill said: "The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see."

 

[Gazrok]

I agree with the idea that eventually, as things stabilized, precious metals would likely again be used for currency. What I disagree with, is the amount of purchasing power you'd have with it. It's a poor investment to take a major loss on. If a $500 piece of gold can buy only $100 worth of actual goods post SHTF, then you've just lost $400 worth of purchasing power. I just can't see metals having the same worth and purchasing power in any other scenario other than an economic collapse. So, all your metals hoarding would be for that ONE scenario.

 

[jimLE]

true gazrok..i agree with that.but if i figure right.lead will retain more vaule then other metals simply because it can be melted down and made into bullets.and i just thought.if a person has a way to melt down copper,and make copper caseing for ammo.then they have a head start at makeing more ammo.but the trick is,comeing up with every thing thats needed for that.