Becoming a Trading Post

[Gazrok]

Odd as it may sound, post SHTF, I foresee a time when society does somewhat stabilize. For the most part, I'm hoping our rural location keeps us from dealing with much of the chaos. But, eventually, we'll want to interact more with others (and get things we'll need/want from others).

So, here are the things we'd plan on offering at our place:

WATER - With a well, lots of water storage, lots of rain, and access to nearby fresh water sources, this seems an easy thing to trade.

FOOD - With gardens, home-canning, and renewable rabbits, chickens, eggs (and lots of frogs, and snakes), should be something we could offer then.

MEDICAL SERVICES - One of our group is a former EMT, so we could offer this service to trade, along with medical herbs and home-remedies.

INFORMATION - I have been collecting books, maps, pdfs, etc. with info that we could reprint or save to drives, etc. (as long as we can keep some power going)

HORSE TACK - We currently run a tack shop (horse supplies, saddles, etc.), so we'd still have this post disaster. (includes a lot of footwear too, we had some deals on this, so a lot of stock).

SAFE LODGING & MEALS (TEMPORARY) - I have some more detailed info on how to make this safe for all, but basically, a place to lay your head (for a defined time) without worry is a pretty nice commodity.

PROSTITUTION - Morals aside, I know some women in our group who would actually do this in such a situation (though not normally). They have the looks to make it worth the trade too. Oddly enough, I only include it because THEY brought it up...not me.

REPAIRS - I have a pretty well-stocked garage with tools, and those in the group can do a variety of repairs, mechanical, electrical, plumbing, etc.

The above are things we could do now. But I'd like to learn (or have some in the group learn) Ammo Reloading, Making Biodiesel, Making Alcohol, Growing/Processing Tobacco (and similar plants), and Blacksmithing to offer these items/services as well. (and of course, for our own needs)

We'd trade for things we can't make like pharmaceutical drugs, ammo (that the trader can't use for their weapons), batteries, camping gear, news, manufactured items (likely looted from cities), medical supplies, gardening items, tools, etc.

 

[zombiesrreal]

I agree with you. Once the survivors get over the initial shock of what ever happens we will begin to rebuild. I have thought of this before to but we will have to wait and see what will be needed for currency. If the government currency is no longer of value. What do you think we could use for currency?

 

[Trapper]

Once things stabilize people will have a lot of these things figured out for themselves. If you have too much stuff I believe you will be a target. The biggest problem I see is the possible large gangs having territory controlling what and who is doing any trading. No different than a drug lord having his area. Unless there is a strong government to provide public safety ie: law enforcement & military, that is what I fear may happen. Not trying to be a downer but just something to consider.

 

[jimLE]

good point trapper..thats why i beleave it's a good idea of 20+ ppl liveing on a certain size peice of land.and takeing turns at keeping watch on the property and things on it dureing the day and night..


and gazrok..one thing you might want to look into is diffrent sources of electric.then go with what works best for you and everyone else there.and it'd be a source that yall can do the repairs modify n so on

 

[Gazrok]

It is something I've considered Trapper. I've always been a pretty good diplomat though. I'm hoping that if I can't beat them (gangs) with folks and weapons, then hopefully I can get them to see that leaving us here to produce for the long haul, is a better option than a one time looting. Like a tribute payment kind of thing (and in exchange for protection from other gangs, or they may want the same deal). Heck, maybe I'll even get them to wipe each other out to more manageable numbers.

What do you think we could use for currency?

Initially, barter. But, I think that small, valuable items that are easily divisible will become their own currency, like cigarettes, bullets, etc.
Like this: 1 can of food = 3 cigarettes. A bullet = 2 cigarettes. A gallon of gas = 10 cigarettes or 3 cans of food or 5 bullets, etc.

 

[Gazrok]

good point trapper..thats why i beleave it's a good idea of 20+ ppl liveing on a certain size peice of land.and takeing turns at keeping watch on the property and things on it dureing the day and night..


and gazrok..one thing you might want to look into is diffrent sources of electric.then go with what works best for you and everyone else there.and it'd be a source that yall can do the repairs modify n so on

Currently, we have a dozen or so, depending on who can make it here. I'm sure we'd easily add a few more after such an event, as long as we grow to trust them. So yes, having the numbers is important. I have plans to incorporate some solar, some wind, and diesel (so also biodiesel) generators for power (and I'm checking into propane), but a matter of what will be in place at the time something happens (if anything does).

 

[Gazrok]

Another service we plan to offer. COMMUNICATION. I plan on getting my HAM license, and some basic equipment. We'd also have a bulletin board for information, people trying to find loved ones, etc. Plus, we could establish communication with other post SHTF businesses, locations, etc. Granted, a certain amount of risk in this, so would have to be weighed, and the timing would have to be right.

Once things stabilize people will have a lot of these things figured out for themselves

Perhaps, but there will be travelers also, when things stabilize. Basically, the trading post idea will give us access to items we'd have to brave the cities for, but without the risk to ourselves. Now, we may not get travelers regularly, but with stability and communication, a bit more of a possibility.

 

[old_anorak]

Just me personally, I wouldn't want strangers showing up at my place for whatever it is they think I have. All it would take would be one happy idiot to decide the price was too steep and your whole family could pay the price.​

 

[Gazrok]

Just me personally, I wouldn't want strangers showing up at my place for whatever it is they think I have. All it would take would be one happy idiot to decide the price was too steep and your whole family could pay the price.​

Yep, it's why I've developed a strict protocol for conducting safe trade, whether an individual or group. (group sends ONE representative to trade). I'll have to post it at some point. I'm still tweaking the details, but basically, it defines how they should approach, covering them with a rifle, searching them, etc. Granted, this would only be after a time, that I felt it safer to try this, after things have stabilized somewhat. It may never even get to that point, for all I know. We wouldn't be stockpiling anything we wouldn't be able to use ourselves, other than tobacco, and even that has some medicinal applications.

 

[Dragonfly4835]

Gazrok....do you have a group in place?

 

[Gazrok]

At least 12 of us so far. 5 of the twelve live at the ranch, 5 more are just 10 minutes away. 2 have an hour drive to get here. May increase as the years go on though. 3 close families (and none younger than teens).

 

[Dragonfly4835]

At least 12 of us so far. 5 of the twelve live at the ranch, 5 more are just 10 minutes away. 2 have an hour drive to get here. May increase as the years go on though. 3 close families (and none younger than teens).

All family or other preppers?

 

[Gazrok]

My family are all "light" preppers, but with the upcoming garden project, and chickens in the spring, they'll be a bit more experienced. We own a ranch, and ride horses, etc., so we're slowly all converting to real country folk. (My wife and I both work in nearby cities though). One family has a cop (and former Marine) for the dad, a former EMT for the mom, and two young adults, one teenager. Not preppers per se', but we've all talked about it, and they plan to come here if such an event occurs. We are all good friends, and hang out alot. Needless to say, those skills will be real assets too, but they are friends first. The skills are just a happy accident. The couple who has a drive, he's ex-Army (we've been friends for years). He's more of a storm prepper than a SHTF prepper. So, we all take the threat seriously, but the prepping tasks are mostly up to my family as our location. All I asked them to do was bring their weapons, and anything else they can carry, and have BOBs (bug out bags) of their own.

 

[old_anorak]

The flaw that I see is that you are accounting for people to be 'reasonable and sane if not polite', in other words civilized. That's fine and dandy if and that is a big IF people can hold on to those shreds of dignity, but if you are dealing with say a father who's child has been hungry for days or sick then that is a whole new ballpark.

I'm a parent and I know to what lengths I would go to see that my child is taken care of. I know others on this board who are the same type of parent. That's why we do what we do now to ensure our families are taken care of. Now consider the average city dweller who has become used to picking up take out for dinner and wanting for nothing. When their families start starving, you will be dealing with a person whose reasoning powers are gone. For them it's simple math: You have what they need, they will take what they need and to hell with your rules. Look at inner-city riots, look at the countries now that are in chaos, I doubt it will be much different here.

 

[Gazrok]

That's fine and dandy if and that is a big IF people can hold on to those shreds of dignity, but if you are dealing with say a father who's child has been hungry for days or sick then that is a whole new ballpark.

Failure to follow the rules....designed for our safety....means they are treated as any other intruder. Shot from a fortified position.

 

[cyclingjames]

if you create a "waiting area" away from your house, and send an rc vehicle out to collect payment then drive it back with whatever they wanted. maybe put a cheap two way radio in it so they can tell you what they want?

 

[Gazrok]

if you create a "waiting area" away from your house, and send an rc vehicle out to collect payment then drive it back with whatever they wanted. maybe put a cheap two way radio in it so they can tell you what they want?

Yep, that's EXACTLY what I came up with. The RC vehicle has the two-way radio in it, so we can communicate, and I can get a "feel" for the person. (did you come up with this, or did I put it already in another thread?)

The "waiting area" is the outer gate of the place.

However, there is likely to be some more direct negotiation needed, so the idea is after the radio conversation, ONE person only is allowed in to trade, after they approach solo, hands up, etc. and are searched (covered by rifles the whole time they approach) before coming in (and then with two guards ready).

They'll need to see what we have to offer for trade, say what they have, etc., etc. In any event, only one trader is allowed in at a time. We don't need them being inside our perimeter with numbers.

 

[Overlord]

You could set up a CCTV and wired communication system running on 12 Volts from your place to your "trading post" for monitoring. This would be at a distance of around 200 meters.

 

[Gazrok]

The CCTV is in the plan, really more for immediate business purposes, but likely not until next year.
I love the web-based ones (as you can easily see them on your cell), but post SHTF that would be useless. But, the big problem with the wired is distance and running all that wire.

Still, may be the best way to go, especially if they can still have the cell capability as an option on top of it.

 

[Roninsensei]

No trading will occur. It's a very romantic idea though. If society is trying to rebuild stand back and let it. Most people trying to be in the game will get played by the game. Only a small few will come out on top. An open market trade with no law or governmental protection will be targeted quickly and ruthlessly. It's easy to scout, it's easy to follow and its easy to find your base when you have business, at some point someone has to get the goods then BAM they got you. Until order is restored I say HELL NO.... Trading between known local groups maybe..... but still very risky.

 

[Tyler]

Personally I like the idea of trading, I have a few things in my BOB for it but it is just that, an idea. Small senario: my group of 5 men come up looking for ammo, you say you habe what we need, we say we have food. I come in, alone but with a pistol with 5 rounds in it. You have your guards on me and 1 comes to put me down. I take him as hostage through a simple menouver while facing you and your other guards. At this point the rest of my team has been set up with long range weapons (think .50 cal) and take out any guards behind me. Now say there were 2 guards behind me, 3 guards in front and you. We have just killed 2 of your guards. Then at this point my men start coming in the 200 meter mark. I fire a shot or 2 and kill another gaurd, that makes 3 dead and I've lost 0. You could have shot me when I was taking your guard as hostage, but then you might have hit him. Say you fire a shot and kill me freeing your guard. 3 of your guys are dead, we habe lost 1. At this point my snipers (there are 2) fire on you and your remaining guards, killing you all as my team advance. 6 dead to 1 dead. Yea I'm dead, but so is your team. Say you killed me right off the bat and my team can't get the shot off. You can't cover your 200 m perimeter every second of every day. At a 200m distance that is a 628.3 meter perimeter. Even with a wall we could get through. At night, no lights an beginner team could get through. Say we break the perimeter and there is only 4, silenced weapons to take out the guards from behind and sleeping people is easy work.

Not trying to destroy your plan, just give you an idea of a situation. Post apoc trading with in a community will be safe but outsiders are not welcome at all with us

 

[Sbrosky1]

These scenarios you think up need practice and practical application. Never under estimate the abilities, needs, and desperation of anyone you come nto contact with. On that same note, don't over estimate your own capabilities. There will always be someone bigger and badder than you.

Trading post is a bad idea. Like Walmart within hours of a SHTF, you will be overrun and scavenged. If you have it, others will want it. They will try to take it using any means necessary. Please don't delude yourself into a false security by presenting a small firearm with limited ammo.

Tobacco, ammo, and food will be a currency. Gold and silver don't fill a belly.

 

[Gazrok]

Will certainly be risky, but from what we've seen in past SHTF events, at some point (and sooner than you'd think) trade is inevitable. The key is being a large, well armed group.

Not trying to destroy your plan, just give you an idea of a situation

No, I appreciate it, it's exactly why I posted the thread.

Say you killed me right off the bat and my team can't get the shot off. You can't cover your 200 m perimeter every second of every day

We're damn sure going to try. That's where the amount of people, shifts, etc. come in (we'll do a LOT of rotation, to help guard against boredom for sentries). Also, my guards are in concrete block and sandbag pillboxes. You have no cover and fences to deal with at this range (while they have full cover). The risk is mostly to your group, as would the casualties.

Good luck sneaking the pistol past the marine/cop/MMA fighter checking you for it. (and yeah, we'll take the shot if you try to hold him hostage, as he'll be wearing at least a vest, if not more armor). His wife would likely take the shot herself.

Nothing is full-proof of course, and larger groups may present simply too much risk to stay, but attacking us would be a costly affair. We're not looking to advertise, but as things calm down, and people roam further, it is inevitable we'll be found, and when we are, we'd like to at least have the possibility of working something out other than open conflict.

The bigger risk I think will be people within any group. Eventually, there will be disagreements, etc. and handling those well will really be the key to survival. Luckily, my friends and I know each other well, and pretty much agree what roles we'd play in it. Of course, we're hoping it never gets put to the test, but I already do a lot of "horse trading" and barter so to speak, so really, this would be nothing new come the apocalypse.

within hours of a SHTF

Oh, this wouldn't be until MONTHS after the SHTF. Right after the SHTF, I'm cutting down trees, light poles, towing cars, etc. to block off roads leading to us (and spreading caltrops to pop any vehicle tires attempting the roads), and trying to lay low.

 

[Sbrosky1]

Allow me to clarify. In the hours preceding a hurricane, the shelves get emptied of everything! In the hours after an incident, the run on super markets is a given. If you set up shop, within three days of an incident, you will see scavengers. ESPECIALLY when Uncle Sam don't step in. Look at the aftermath of Katrina. Within days, people were desparate. Don't plan on desperation taking months. Plan on days. Three minimum.

Months after an incident, if life has not stabilized, then you may have an opportunity to set up shop. But only if you have survived the desperation of the scavengers.

 

[Gazrok]

Allow me to clarify. In the hours preceding a hurricane, the shelves get emptied of everything! In the hours after an incident, the run on super markets is a given. If you set up shop, within three days of an incident, you will see scavengers. ESPECIALLY when Uncle Sam don't step in. Look at the aftermath of Katrina. Within days, people were desparate. Don't plan on desperation taking months. Plan on days. Three minimum.

Months after an incident, if life has not stabilized, then you may have an opportunity to set up shop. But only if you have survived the desperation of the scavengers.

We're about 5 miles outside of town proper, and it's about a 30,000 people town (and even that is pretty spread out), so pretty unlikely we'll see any scavengers our way for some time. Not like the trouble that will happen in large cities. I imagine folks will be very desperate initially, even more-so after weeks, then more settled after months following an event.

 

[Tyler]

Good luck sneaking the pistol past the marine/cop/MMA fighter checking you for it. (and yeah, we'll take the shot if you try to hold him hostage, as he'll be wearing at least a vest, if not more armor). His wife would likely take the shot herself

To that point, yes it is true, vests and more armour is nice, but I'd be using him a shield so shoot away, your just firing at your own troops. It takes your mind .8 of a second for your mind to make a dissision, a trained person can fire 6 shots in a second. All it takes is one slip up. As for the wife taking the shot, my personal suggestion is to split families up for sittuations like this to prevent her having to take the shot. It takes 1 second of hesitation and they are both dead and that is what you will get with having someone have to shot at someone they love. How many people do you have that will work as guards? A lose is a lose but if we are out of food and we need some we will be making daring opperations

 

[Gazrok]

No doubt, but I do plan on having signage stating terms and so on (and consequences, like dying because we poisoned some of the food, even if we're all dead), and labor is a trading good everyone has to offer. I'm sure most folks would rather eat than risk their lives or the lives of comrades...especially if it isn't needed. No doubt such an armed group would have things they've accumulated they may want to trade, like unused extra weapons, ammo of calibers they don't use, other items, etc. I'm sure logically, they'd rather do such a trade than risk lives and injury in an armed operation against a fortified position. At least, that is the hope.

I just think the possibility of trade and the ability to open up a dialogue would be a more attractive option and a win/win for both groups, rather than armed conflict with unknown foes. I've got a lot of tactical tricks, and I'm a vengeful m-f'er when it comes to it. If we do go, we're taking them with us, even if we're already cold on the ground....

But, I'd rather be on decent terms with such armed groups, rather than their enemies. If they are the kind that move on from target to target, they are going to come across many things they don't need, and that's where we could come in, trading them needed items for these things to trade with others (or for ourselves).

Of course, we'll have to decide this kind of thing depending on the particular SHTF event. I mean, depending on how things go, we could shift to a Shoot to Kill all Intruders philosophy if needed, but I really hope it doesn't come to that.

As for how many, I won't say exact numbers of folks (the number has increased some lately), but because I have a lot of fencing, and even two layers of fencing in most parts, (eventually in all), it only takes 6 different sentry points to watch the whole perimeter. Ideally, I'd have about 8 of these instead (the extra 2 watching the areas closer to the home inside the perimeter). The plan is for someone to only have sentry duty for 2 hours at a time, before switching with another and doing some other task for a couple hours or resting, eating, washing, etc., etc.. Otherwise, they'll go nuts (and be lousy sentries).

As for the wife. She'd insist on taking the shot. You'd have to know her...hehe. (she's actually a natural good shot too, and a reflexive one). Her hubby is a current cop, and in the military, was a damn good shot himself, all kinds of awards at it. First time he took her to the police range, she blew him away with her accuracy. Oddly enough, all the women in the group (save two) are damn good shots. Only one of the guys is a crappy shot (he's better at close up stuff, so he'd be more of a body guard in the house). He's so bad a shot, I likely wouldn't even have him on sentry duty.

 

[Sbrosky1]

Practice and practical application. If you are not workin on these maneuvers and committing them to muscle memory you will fail. Your numbers will not be static. And if you lose more hands than you gain....well you may find yourself short. Over confidence can be your downfall. Your wife may be an excellent shot but what if she's injured or taken hostage.

Best laid plans....

The military trains every day and they tran for every incidence. They work well and like a well oiled machine. You want to succeed you must train like that. Every chance you get! Everyone needs to train and train often so everyone is on the same page.

 

[Gazrok]

Fully agree. We train together doing airsoft and paintball mostly (and with the idea of it being live/real fire, vs. paint). It's about as much as we can work in realistically, as we're active families. It's the cop's wife who's the really good shot. My wife is decent too, but the cop's wife is nearly supernatural. Like me, she doesn't need to aim, can just reflexively shoot a pistol and hit the target, but she's more dead on than I am. I'm better with a scoped rifle though.

May sound like I'm overconfident, but far from it. I hope we NEVER have to put any of this to the test. I am all for prepping and plans, etc., but hope we never have to use it. I like modern life. I like safety and security. I prep more for self-sufficiency than any desire for a "reset".

 

[Tyler]

True, my suggestion for your meeting point is get a pill box off your land where you can meet