Blank Slate

[Ma'am]

If you guys were going to start out all over again....what/where/when/how/ and why would you choose that spot? And what would you do first? Everything...I want details lol

My hubby and I have been offered the chance to buy part of the family farm.....starting with hopefully 50 acres...moving on to hopefully up to 200 acres. I am starting my plan now of how to lay everything out, what I want to have on location/ animals/ building/ ect. But since I am relatively new to prepping I wanted to ask the pros what I need to look out for/consider. I know I will make mistakes along the way, but I want to avoid any problems before hand... if possibly. I want to create a self sufficient homestead-so I dont have to rely on outside sources for much. When SHTF -I want to be able to Bug-In and be pretty comfortable with my preparations.

The layout: Starting out with 50 acres seems like a big undertaking in the beginning...is that too much?
part of the lot is wooded, and I intend on expanding the wooded area-does 10+/- acres provide enough 'wild' area to keep local deer/game coming around every once in awhile.
I am in love with the location-beautiful area, close to a small fishing lake (walking distance) pretty close to the area I plan on working, great community, and best of all PRIVACY and SPACE!
The land is currently being used for farming, and I would want to get started with hay fields as soon as possibly so I dont end up spending time and money down the rd with brush removal.
I have SO many questions----the idea of starting with a blank slate is exciting and I want to explore all my options first.
What are the faults in my plans/what am I not seeing?

But most of all I wanna know what would you guys do if you got the chance to start over/dream set up?
I am so looking forward to what you guys/gals have to say!

 

[jimLE]

details?.must i go there with that one?lol...50 acres is a good start to me.just dont try to fix it all up at once..if it were me.id locate 50 acres thats well hid from shight much as possible.and build out from there area thats not wooded.devide it up.one part for garde(s) ..one part for the wild life.choose the plants the wild life will eat.like black berry n grapes.and plant it in areas where there's not to much human traffic.green house's or fences for the gardens..and a great location for the home if its not all ready there.then start working on live stock.cows goats chickens horses,ect ect.and if there's a roads going past the section yall have.choose sections of propety line for well hid entrance(s),especilly if it's a back road ,farm road or what ever.that there's a escape route if ever needed..if there's trees and under brush on the property line.only clean up whats needed.then leave the rest of it to act as fence and wall to hide the property

 

[Ma'am]

I know...very vague...sorry
Basically I have 50 acres sitting there with my name on it....idk where to start. I am slightly overwhelmed, but very excited about it. I just wanna look to you guys/gals for advise. I think I have a great opportunity- but I wanna do it right.

Great advise JIM!!! Thank you...hadnt really even considered an emergency escape at all...guess I hadn't thought of it.

ok more details:
there are no building at all as of right now....first plan on putting up a large pole barn (large Amish community up that way so i will most likely look to them for my building needs- I am hoping for quality construction/will last 'forever' even though it will cost more in the beginning it is defiantly worth it) having an apartment within the barn....living in that part until we figure out where we want other building layout wise. I think it would be smart to not build anything else until we have been there at least a year-and know the land better...ie which areas flood...which areas are traffic areas for existing wildlife to expand wooded areas there, which areas would be ideal for what, ect

I have horses already....would also want chickens and sheep.
I am not a fan of cows or goats but am willing to try both out to see what would work best.
What are other animals I should consider trying?

I have little experience with other farm yard animals other than horses...so i do intend to slowly add animals to the property.
What breeds do you guys recommend to a beginners-for an area with winters that can be harsh?

I plan on putting in a rather large orchard very early on-what would you guys have/do have in yours that give you the best results?

Any info is greatly appreciated!

 

[jimLE]

sheep is a great idea seeing how you get food and clothes from them.i hear they can ruien the water for other animals if thier shareing same creek as other animalsbut not sure of that.then make sure thier down sterem from the others if thats true.alpacas is another good food and clothes animal

 

[old_anorak]

I'd make sure your stock cannot be seen from the road. Put your home back from the road with trees along the drive that can be dropped to block passage in. With cows vs. goats, I'll take goats every time. You'll need at least 4 acres of pasture, good pasture per head of cattle to raise to butcher weight. You can put 4-5 meat/dairy goats on 1 acre of not so great land and have faster meat production. Goats are easier to conceal from raiders as well. Might sound silly, but if I knew someone was looking to nab a few of my goats, they'd be penned up right next to the house and I'd be out there guarding them. Can't do that so much with cattle, when they spook, they stomp the **** out of everything and everyone in their path. If you want to keep chickens, ducks, geese, and turkeys, build them covered runs to cut down on predator loss.

Get your ground right for gardening. How many people are you feeding? Figure out just how big of an area you are going to need to feed the people and the animals. Big root cellar is a must which can double as your storm shelter. Since you have horses, get every oak tree you can out of there. I've lost one to oak poisoning and it's not something I ever want anyone else to go through.

 

[jimLE]

i knew acorns aint good for horses and cattle..but didnt know oaks aint good for horses

 

[old_anorak]

Yeah, horses will usually leave them alone because they're very bitter, but something about the chemical in the plant gives a high and some horses will get addicted to it.

 

[jimLE]

oh ok..thats understandable...

 

[Dani]

Both Anorak and Jim have some great suggestions. I love my goats and they are so beneficial to us with their milk, clearing land, and also meat. I have been bottle feeding three piglets and goat milk is so good for any animal you have to supplement. I do have some cattle, only 4 right now. Three have been raise since calves and one that was bought about a year old. They are all very friendly and loved to get petted and rubbed down. Just have to watch out when T-bone comes running up and daces around swinging his head for his. We had another, but he has already been thru the slaughter house back in February. If you do decide to own them, you need to be acquainted with them on a daily basis or they can and will hurt you. Pigs are also great. They can have multiple litters each year and supply you with food and grease that can be used I so many different ways. I would definitely recommend owning chickens. Around here it is a must, mainly for the eggs, but when they slow down or stop production, a great meat source. All of these need protection from the elements. . . some sort of shelter. With Chicken, like Anorak said, make sure it is covered to keep out predators. We use chicken wire for that and haven't had any problems. We also have three sides with 6ft tall fence with only the front side with chain link/chicken wire. We do let them free range in the backyard. As for the goats, you will need a shelter and eventually a milking staunch if you plan to milk. We have found that water floaters are useful to water stock. We have them hooked up to the well, so they will automatically fill on there own. Also make sure that you build away from the road, like both Jim and Anorak recommend. When we built our fences around our pastures, we left as much trees and underbrush as possible, in camouflage. Don't want to be an easy target.

 

[bill harrell]

I'd always start with water . Set up your drinking water source and build around that. It will be your first dire need and will have to be constantly available. Then I would lay out plans for where my food sources are and how to protect them. They also may need water at times so the more convenient the source, the better the production of food. I agree with everyone else on the subject of secrecy. People don't steal what they can't see. Also take into account nature( flooding, tornados, and sunlight.) Always take advantage of what God has already provided for you.

 

[Ma'am]

THANKS everyone-love the post so far....
Do I need to keep the chicken coop close to the house?will that cut down on predators taking some?
do different species need be kept separate- can i put quail or turkeys in with the chickens?

I have heard terrible things about pigs-and have been warned by several people to never get them. What do you guys think?


Love the idea of having trees at the entrance that I can cut down if i need to block that off!!
thanks for the heads up about oak trees and acorns!

 

[old_anorak]

Pigs can be dangerous, ain't going to lie about it. Keep them behind a good strong fence and teach the kids to respect them. I never go in the pen to feed them, always feed from outside, just tip over the rail so they can't get hold of my leg. I have crap balance and I know how easy it would be to fall for me. Always keep a good stout stick or cattle prod with you and make them respect your space.

 

[Dani]

Honestly, I haven't ever had any trouble with the pigs so far, but we have only had them for about a year now. When we feed and water, we are on the outside of their pens that is surrounded by hog panels. They are notorious for their rooting so laid out railroad ties, buried in the ground, right under the fencing so they can't dig under. They will dump their food and water bowls, so make certain that those are secured to where they can't get their snouts underneath them and tip them over. Concert troughs are great for them.

As for the chicken question, I only have chickens now but had bantams in with them about 10 years ago with no problem. A friend's mom kept ducks in with her chicken with no problems. Not sure about quail or turkeys though.

 

[old_anorak]

Adult hogs can be very aggressive. One of my cousins was balancing on the rail around the hog pen and fell in. Before my uncles could get the sow back, she'd already torn my cousin's arm off. I don't think I'll ever forget seeing that happen.

 

[Ma'am]

Well I definitely think I am gonna steer clear of pigs...I just don't think I want to have to deal with that kinda stuff...ever! sounds terrible!
I am gonna stick with more mellow animals.

 

[old_anorak]

If you only get weaner pigs and raise them to eating size, takes about 6 months and then they are pork chops. It's if you want to raise pigs and you keep the big 500 pound+ animals that things can get hairy quick. You send them to the butcher at about 250-275 pounds, about 6-7 months old. With them that small, just feed from outside the pen and if you have kids, teach them to stay well clear of them.

 

[Dani]

Adult hogs can be very aggressive. One of my cousins was balancing on the rail around the hog pen and fell in. Before my uncles could get the sow back, she'd already torn my cousin's arm off. I don't think I'll ever forget seeing that happen.

I have heard some stories from different people about hogs, but nothing like that. That is just horrible! Our neighbors wife, who weighs about 110 lbs soaking wet, went into their pen to scratch them around their ears and got pinned down one time and couldn't free herself. Had to wait for husband to get home and he used a cattle prod to get it off.

 

[Colt 1911]

Montana, off the grid, wife, kid, dog.

 

[Ma'am]

Sounds terrible! I am glad I asked you guys! I had talked with a guy from work about prepping stuff-he used to live and work on a farm in his earlier years. He said when they would go out there to butcher one -all the pigs would start going crazy at just the site of the shot gun. That there was no way to go in with them without getting hurt-or worse!
I am more than happy to stay away from what you guys have said!

 

[Roninsensei]

Always make sure to keep your quail separate from your chickens!!! Quail tend to get pecked to death also, the chickens can transfer sickness to the quail that they are not able to handle like chickens. Plastic dog crates work great as quail pens. I keep 1 male and 2 females per crate. I am working on a 8x8x8 pen area for them. However quail also need a double door system or they will escape and be gone for good.

 

[Roninsensei]

Turkey and chickens can be OK but, Depends if the turkey is a jack ass or not. One kick from a turkey can end your chicken fast. Also if you keep all breeds of chicken together with your rooster your gonna make hybrids, Nothing wrong with that as long as they are all good egg laying breeds. Predators are brash I've never found that location stops them much. A good dog and cat combo keeps most at bay. Also when you make the coop bury the chicken wire about a foot deep to stop digging.

 

[Roninsensei]

This set up cost me 110.00 total mainly chicken wire and some 2x4s look on craigs list for free lumber most of this was built with free wood. The feeders are great made of 3 inch pvc and cost me about 6 bucks each to make.

 

[Ma'am]

WOW love your chicken set up! looks great! cant believe you got that all set up and put together for $110
You are awesome dude
I especially like the gravity feeders and nesting boxes!

 

[Ma'am]

How many chickens can you keep in a coop that size?

 

[Roninsensei]

12 to 16 happily. I'm staying at 12. lol At the far end where the wood pile is in the last pic is a door. I'm adding another 8x8x8 to it for my quail pen. That way the quail will have to get out of the chicken pen area to actually escape. Hence 2 door system. They are quick little buggers but they produce plenty of eggs and are sexually mature and laying within 6 to 8 weeks!! Also full size for eating in 3 months. the brown coturnix is the way to go...

 

[jimLE]

i was thinking some where around 12 but wasnt sure..

 

[old_anorak]

I really need to take pictures and figure out how to put them up on here. Our coops and runs are almost exclusively reclaimed materials from tearing down an old barn. We can run 50 or so layers comfortably and have a grow out area for meat birds that can hold 40-50 since it's for such a short time. We're building on as we can for more ducks and geese.

 

[old_anorak]

Chicken wire didn't work for us. We've got stock panels covered with utility fencing and electric crisscrossing over the tops of the runs. Damned owls and hawks.

 

[Ma'am]

I would love to see what your chicken coop looks like Anorak

 

[Ma'am]

All these suggestions are really helpful