"BOOTS in The FIELD" = Real Authentic EXPERIENCE and it has Value.

[Sourdough]

I have LOVE/HATE feelings about the current fascination that exists about survival stuff. I never believed it would last this long in the fickle public interest.

There is a saying that goes something like, "When the government is telling lies, it is dangerous to be telling the truth". There are two types of knowledge. Knowledge derived from internet or books or magazines, word of mouth, etc..

The other type on knowledge is First hand personal experience, What I call "Boots in the Field" experience.

When the masses believe what is taught them, by people who learned what they are stating as fact from the internet, and then they run quick like a bunny to a different forum, and state what they know as the truth or the way it is based on what they know and learned from the different survival forums and blogs......."In that environment it is pointless and dangerous to state what you know from first hand experience......with boots in the field.

In this "Information Age" there is a tremendous amount of information that is totally believed, everyone knows is true , common knowledge.....that is wrong to varying degrees, from totally wrong, to just a small partly inaccurate.

If there are 50 people in a discussion on a thread, stating what they think, and what they think is based on "ZERO" first hand or Boots in the field experience.......and someone enters that discussion who is old and has 50 or 60 years of first hand experience day in and day out living that subject of that thread. they will be called, "Troll" and shouted down.

The masses rule.

People without "First Hand" or Boots in the Field experience can not accept the truth, they want to believe what they have believed for a very long time. They will fight savagely to defend what they believe, even as they have zero first hand experience.

It is fun to just read threads, and watch that most say, "Well, I THINK" what they are saying is they think something is a stated way, based on zero first hand experience. This is very different from someone stating, "Well, I KNOW" this or that, based on first hand experience.

 

[Woody]

Perhaps it is like that on other Forums or places you frequent. Here, not so much. If someone posts what they think or read is correct, and others here know it is not, they could be in for a discussion on it.


When I hear what I believe is bunk, about any situation, I go with my gut. If a statement begins with “Well, I read…” or “I heard that…” I will read it, but take it at face value.


I will be the first to admit I don’t know everything, even though most folks say I do. I hear it all the time... ”You know everything, don’t you!” [That was an attempt at humor BTW]


If you have any questions about something you read heard or had someone post as Gospel, let us know. I believe at least one of the folks here would be able to confirm or deny it and back it up with first-hand experience.

 

[BBQJoe]

I have a feeling you've got a mess of issues.
This may, or may not be the place to air them.
So far, with the threads you have started, I'm sensing an attitude that might not get you far here.

 

[Swing]

I have LOVE/HATE feelings about the current fascination that exists about survival stuff. I never believed it would last this long in the fickle public interest.

There is a saying that goes something like, "When the government is telling lies, it is dangerous to be telling the truth". There are two types of knowledge. Knowledge derived from internet or books or magazines, word of mouth, etc..

The other type on knowledge is First hand personal experience, What I call "Boots in the Field" experience.

When the masses believe what is taught them, by people who learned what they are stating as fact from the internet, and then they run quick like a bunny to a different forum, and state what they know as the truth or the way it is based on what they know and learned from the different survival forums and blogs......."In that environment it is pointless and dangerous to state what you know from first hand experience......with boots in the field.

In this "Information Age" there is a tremendous amount of information that is totally believed, everyone knows is true , common knowledge.....that is wrong to varying degrees, from totally wrong, to just a small partly inaccurate.

If there are 50 people in a discussion on a thread, stating what they think, and what they think is based on "ZERO" first hand or Boots in the field experience.......and someone enters that discussion who is old and has 50 or 60 years of first hand experience day in and day out living that subject of that thread. they will be called, "Troll" and shouted down.

The masses rule.

People without "First Hand" or Boots in the Field experience can not accept the truth, they want to believe what they have believed for a very long time. They will fight savagely to defend what they believe, even as they have zero first hand experience.

It is fun to just read threads, and watch that most say, "Well, I THINK" what they are saying is they think something is a stated way, based on zero first hand experience. This is very different from someone stating, "Well, I KNOW" this or that, based on first hand experience.

I see that you've made reference to being called a Troll when others do not believe as you do. Have you had that unfortunate experience?

And since this is about living through an experience, rather than reading about and thinking through what one would do = what experience do you bring to the table to make these statements? Let us get to know you and what experiences you have to bring forth.

 

[Sourdough]

I have a feeling you've got a mess of issues.
This may, or may not be the place to air them.
So far, with the threads you have started, I'm sensing an attitude that might not get you far here.

Please elaborate..........

 

[Sourdough]

I see that you've made reference to being called a Troll when others do not believe as you do. Have you had that unfortunate experience?

Yes........however I would not refer to it as an "Unfortunate Experience". I would refer to it as sad and disappointing. Often people are attached to a belief or a myth about how things are, even in the face of having had zero "First Hand Experience" in that area. When someone comes along who has extensive experience in that area, they do not want to hear that. It damages their vision of how they have come to believe things are.

We have an entire generation, maybe even two generations, or even more, that has little if any wilderness experience........everything they know, everything they believe, everything they repeat as valid........they learned on the internet or on "You Tube". And so........I just feel that is sad and very unfortunate.

 

[Swing]

Yes........however I would not refer to it as an "Unfortunate Experience". I would refer to it as sad and disappointing. Often people are attached to a belief or a myth about how things are, even in the face of having had zero "First Hand Experience" in that area. When someone comes along who has extensive experience in that area, they do not want to hear that. It damages their vision of how they have come to believe things are.

Ah, you keep saying that, but offer no experience or history to substantiate your point of view.

 

[Sourdough]

Ah, you keep saying that, but offer no experience or history to substantiate your point of view.

That is NOT the heart of what I am attempting to communicate. It is bigger then my experience. My level of experience is not relevant to the point that I am trying to make.

Delete me from what I am stating. The point is still valid, you have generations with little or zero "Boots in the Field" experience. Everything they know or "THINK" they know came from the internet or You Tube.

 

[Swing]

Ah, VP, I think I'm starting to get what you are conveying.

We have a generation coming up that has video running experience, but not out running and playing as a child at recess, or a track runner in high school, etc.

A spectator generation, that has not been tested

 

[Sentry18]

IMO survival in many (perhaps most) situations is 10% preparation, 10% skill and 80% luck. Does the tornado hit your house or the neighbors. Does the outbreak happen where you live or 3 states over. Are you in an airplane when the solar flare hits or sitting at home. Does the Russian nuclear sub decide to park off the East coast or the West. Which building on campus does the active shooter first walk into before he starts spraying bullets. Yes, experience counts for a lot but luck counts for even more. Even the most skilled and experienced cops get shot in the line of duty and some of the best SEALS the Navy has to offer end up KIA. And often times by some turd who barely know how to pull the trigger. Plus I would submit that someone who watched a YouTube video on how to build a water filter or how to make a shelter is still better off than someone who thinks FEMA will just show up with bottled Desani. Now I would personally rather have the training, skills and preps than not (and I do). But many people can and do survive with no training, no skills and no preps.

 

[Sourdough]

Your getting closer..........but still not there. We have people giving Survival advise, and giving it as empirical survival advise, who are regurgitating stuff they believe to be valid, that they have see posted over and over and over on the internet and You Tube, but they have zero wilderness experience. There is information that has been repeated so MANY time, everyone believes it is valid.

We have twenty or twenty-five years of people learning everything they believe to be valid from the internet or You Tube. If someone comes along and says that information is not exactly accurate, they circle the wagons.......and start calling that person "Troll". Because they TRULY believe what they have been told on the internet thingies. And some have never seen the wilderness other then in photographs.

Ah, VP, I think I'm starting to get what you are conveying.

We have a generation coming up that has video running experience, but not out running and playing as a child at recess, or a track runner in high school, etc.

A spectator generation, that has not been tested

 

[Swing]

But, are you positive you know THEIR experience? They may be just as much an expert as you are here. We know nothing about you, except having a philosophical discussion about others and their experiences. Or non-experiences. You could possibly be wrong about some that you are judging as not have done anything.

Many have been wise enough not to let on to all that they know. It's a future situational security measure. Many times it's best to be a fool in full site to gather information from others.

 

[Grizzleyette___Adams]

I think I know some of what VP is talking about...and it is not limited to just survival topics. I (and many other experienced herbalists) have seen--time and time again--much misinformation being parroted from one website to another. Some of it is downright harmful. Some bloggers add insult to injury by perpetuating harmful info on their blog as fact when it is not.

The same problem runs in homemaker's sites, cooking blogs, etc.

This same parroting problem seems to be especially rampant in the world of survival, but in much greater magnitude than any other topic that I have ever seen.

 

[Swing]

I know that I've seen it about canning on the cooking section of another forum I use to be at. Drove real canners, nuts. And modern people saying something won't be right, but older canners knew it was right and could work.

 

[Sourdough]

And where do those people learn the stuff they teach on their You Tube videos...........they learned it from watching several other You Tube videos on that subject. I have watched very few you tube videos. But I was going to purchase a product, and I asked about that produce on a Forum that I was/am a member of.......and I was advised to watch a you tube video about that product, they even were nice enough to give me the link to that You Tube video.

I watched the video, and he said be sure to attach with only 15 inch pounds of torque, and do NOT exceed 20 inch pounds. That did not seem right to me, so I watched it again, and that is exactly what he said. I contacted the company that makes that produce, as I had other questions that were not covered in the video. And so I asked the company about the 15 Inch Pounds........the guy asked if I had watched that stupid video. The company states 30 inch pounds, and do not exceed 45 inch pounds. I bought the product, and never watched another you tube video. (I do watch You Tube Movies).

Plus I would submit that someone who watched a YouTube video on how to build a water filter or how to make a shelter

 

[Grizzleyette___Adams]

I know that I've seen it about canning on the cooking section of another forum I use to be at. Drove real canners, nuts. And modern people saying something won't be right, but older canners knew it was right and could work.

Yep, and we all know how the "messenger of the truth" gets shot ALL to heck, lol. I think this must be the Troll syndrome that VP is talking about.

 

[SheepDog]

Virgin Prepper,
I know what you are saying but at the same time I would like to know a bit of what your experience is and how you come by it.
I am part of a generation that grew up backpacking and hunting. It was never a challenge whether it was crossing the Olympics or spending a week in the Alpine Lakes wilderness area without taking any food. I always lived like a king in the wilderness but I was never concerned that someone was going to attack for my food or gear. I never had to consider if an approaching person was going to try to kill me. I have lived through a two week power outage in the middle of winter and had fun doing it and helping my neighbors. I have had gardens to raise food since I bought my first home. I am at number three and looking for number four in the near future. I want more land to raise fuel crops and good beef cattle (or beefalo).
I can and have given myself shots which kept me out of intensive care when I developed blood clots in my leg and lungs. All I had to do was prove to the doctor that I could give myself the shots of blood thinner to go home. I HATE hospitals and can't rest well in them. I have hunted with a bow, rifle and pistol. I have made and used many different kinds of traps. I have skinned game and used the raw hide and made leather from it too. I have put on classes teaching simple woods craft to folks who wanted to learn the "old" ways. I have also put on classes casting metal and engraving stone. I taught urban and rural survival classes.
I am a perpetual student and problem solver but when faced with a situation that is impossible to prepare for I have sense enough to get out of it and to someplace that I can be prepared. There are people who learn skills without spending their lives in the woods and deserts of this country and they have the skill because they have worked to get the instructions. I am a firewalker, migraine survivor and I am as close to invincible as I have ever been. You can kill me but you will never beat me. In survival it is less skill and more a mindset you need to survive.
There I am, now it's your turn.

 

[Meerkat]

I'm not sure what this thread is about but it is interesting just the same.

But I do like all the info and knowledge on YouTube. The proof is in the pudding and I have had some really good ' pudding ' from YT.
Saved us lots of extra work and money. I like proof it works.

Far as the politics of it I always listen to both sides and find I can get closer to what seems like the truth doing that although question that too.
I got my mind on global warming changed BIG TIME just last night. I try to keep an open mind just hopefully not so much my brains fall out.
I investigate almost everything. I don't have any hero's . I don't trust a single person I listen to even those I listen to often. Except those who have nothing to sell or an agenda.

 

[Sourdough]

I know what you are saying but at the same time I would like to know a bit of what your experience is and how you come by it.

My experience is not the point. If I give you my experience you will either say........dude (City-Boy), you have hardly "Zero" field experience, or you might say "WOW".....that is impressive, you clearly have a lot of "Boots in the Field experience. Either way, is not relevant to this thread.

 

[Peanut]

There is lots of accurate information on youtube. Two examples, I'm been learning edible plants and medicinal plants from true experts for about a decade. I know these men and women personally and attend their classes as often as I can. Many people aren't lucky as me, they live hundreds, even thousands of miles away. Through technology they can now learn from these experts as I do. 2) Beekeeping, I've only been learning a couple of years, lots of youtube videos on the subject. I drove and met a couple of the people in person. They were both experts in their field, going about beekeeping in completely different manners. They are both sharing their expertise through youtube.

 

[Swing]

My experience is not the point. If I give you my experience you will either say........dude (City-Boy), you have hardly "Zero" field experience, or you might say "WOW".....that is impressive, you clearly have a lot of "Boots in the Field experience. Either way, is not relevant to this thread.

That bold violet part of your post is relevant to this thread, as we don't know that you have any experience to even be qualified to ramble on about those that put up You Tubes, or other posts of how to do something. Right now, you're a name on a forum, spouting a premise with no backing and dodging giving any backing. So, why should anyone engage in this as you may be a no nothing just making yourself feel better?

See, with what is given in this thread, it could go either way. And I'm going to see how much prepping help or post you've given just out of curiousity so I can get a reading on whether you're just a philosophic person, engaging in brain fencing or more.

 

[Peanut]

My experience is not the point. is not relevant to this thread.

It's the heart of this thread. How do we know you not just as ignorant as the people you are claiming as ignorant. You've suggested that all of youtube is false. I know your suggestion is false. I just posted about true experts in their fields sharing their knowledge through youtube. People I know personally.

 

[Sourdough]

There is lots of accurate information on youtube. Two examples, I'm been learning edible plants and medicinal plants from true experts for about a decade. I know these men and women personally and attend their classes as often as I can. Many people aren't lucky as me, they live hundreds, even thousands of miles away. Through technology they can now learn from these experts as I do. 2) Beekeeping, I've only been learning a couple of years, lots of youtube videos on the subject. I drove and met a couple of the people in person. They were both experts in their field, going about beekeeping in completely different manners. They are both sharing their expertise through youtube.

Thank you........you make my point perfectly. You clearly show the distinction between people who are living it, and it is an iatrical part of their life, they have real "Boots in the Field" experience.

 

[Sourdough]

It's the heart of this thread. How do we know you not just as ignorant as the people you are claiming as ignorant. You've suggested that all of youtube is false. I know your suggestion is false. I just posted about true experts in their fields sharing their knowledge through youtube. People I know personally.

I never claimed anyone was "Ignorant". You have a lot of home canning experience. Lets say you had 50 years of home canning experience, you could quickly see if people posting about home canning were parroting about the subject, and had little or no experience. You could quickly see that some of the things they stated were not totally accurate or safe.

If I am reading a thread about bear behavior, I can quickly see that things are being stated that are untrue and dangerous. Generally these are things that have been stated over and over for decades, but are just not accurate. And are often a very dangerous way for people to react around bears.

 

[Meerkat]

I never claimed anyone was "Ignorant". You have a lot of home canning experience. Lets say you had 50 years of home canning experience, you could quickly see if people posting about home canning were parroting about the subject, and had little or no experience. You could quickly see that some of the things they stated were not totally accurate or safe.

Well I hope you can hang around and tell teach us things you know and maybe even learn for mus too.

 

[SheepDog]

What, exactly, is your point? There doesn't seem to be any more point than to say that some you tube videos are unprofessional or based on incomplete information.
Everyone already knows that if it is on the internet it is the complete truth. I mean really, Lincoln used the internet to win the war of independence back in 1812. He is quoted, in multiple places, saying something to the effect of, "The trouble with the internet is that you can't tell if it's true or not."

 

[Sourdough]

It's the heart of this thread. How do we know you not just as ignorant as the people you are claiming as ignorant. You've suggested that all of youtube is false. I know your suggestion is false. I just posted about true experts in their fields sharing their knowledge through youtube. People I know personally.

I respectfully request that you point me the post where I stated that..........I never said that, and I do not even remotely believe that.

 

[SheepDog]

Well, since virgin prepper won't answer a simple question, I am done here.
You folks play nice and I will look for you in the more meaningful topics.:thumbs up:

 

[Sourdough]

What, exactly, is your point?

Simple........there are people who have decades of actual experience, and there are people who have zero actual experience, but are repeating things they learned on the internet.

I don't know anything about home canning. But, if I wanted to learn about home canning I want to learn from someone like Angie. I don't want to learn about home canning from someone who watch a "You Tube" video.....and/or read a magazine article about home canning.

 

[Grizzleyette___Adams]

More than a few people who do have a lifetime's worth of experience are sharing it on Youtube. Unfortunately, unless that person's reputation is well known, it can be a crap shoot if I don't exercise due diligence and research...just as I would research any school or teacher that may be teaching me, because I want to learn from the best.

Some forums are a collection of parrots. VP, this forum isn't one of them. No worries there.