Bread Machines

[Peanut]

A lot of people seem to have these, a thread on them might be useful.

I got a machine and made bread for the first time tonight. (aside from pancakes an hoecakes). Thanks @Haertig ! You talked me into it. What’s the worst that can happen? Gadgets are pretty much bullet proof these days. I started with basic white bread.

A one pound loaf was smaller than I expected. Must have screwed up the yeast somehow. Unless it’s supposed to be this small, don’t know? Tastes fine but a little dry. Seems a little dense too.

I followed the instructions precisely, calculated all measurements to the gram, no substitution of ingredients. Unbleached ap so it isn’t white. It listed unsalted butter, I used Maggie butter (a friends cow). Don’t know if that mattered. It called for room temp water and nonfat dry milk. I could have used maggie milk, probably would taste better.

The machine is simple to operate. One odd thing though… I got unexpected beeps from the machine. The instructions indicated I’d get a series of beeps when it was okay to remove the paddle, if I chose too (optional). This happens just before the baking cycle starts. After all the mixing et al.

It beeped sooner than I expected, the message “Add” was flashing. Add what? All ingredients were added in order during step one. So I left it running… It beeped later with “Paddle” flashing just before baking.

This is it... edible anyway.

 

[Heartbroken]

That loaf does look slightly small, but not too bad. The basic white bread recipe in my machine makes a loaf that is a bit dense but rather crumbly. Not the best for making sandwiches because it falls apart, but very nice as a thick slice with plenty of butter and honey for a snack. I find the Italian recipe in the owner's manual makes a better sandwich bread.
The extra beeps are for when recipes call for adding things after the dough has mixed a bit, usually something like fruits or raisins. The recipe will usually specify holding something out til the beeps.
I have a big book of bread machine recipes and it's great fun to experiment; I've made cinnamon bread and raisin bread and tomato bread and so on. But my favorite is a fruit bread that uses the chopped up candied fruit that is on sale this time of year for fruit cakes.
My machine is an old, inexpensive sort of unit that my sister in law gave me; she had found it left behind by an old couple she bought a house from. I just love it because it really made me think of my Grandma; it was kept in pristine condition, the owner's manual was with it, and I found the recipe for that fruit bread on an index card in the manual, written in cursive that looked much like Grandma's. Gave me a feeling of connection, you know? My Grandparents always took great care of their things, kept the manuals, and made notes.
Anyways, once you play with it a while you'll get to recognizing if it needs more water or more flour by the way it sounds when it's mixing. Even if everything is measured perfectly, bread always seems to need some sort of organic intervention. If it sounds like it's working too hard and I see unincorporated flour, I add just a bit of water until the flour is in and it makes a good dough ball. And occasionally it will be going like crazy, and the dough is sloppy so I add a tiny bit of flour. Doesn't take much either way to get it back on track again.
Hope you have lots of fun with it!
Now I'm wanting to get mine going again, and I have absolutely no idea which one of these hundreds of moving boxes it might be packed in!

 

[rice paddy daddy]

My wife has tried a number of those machines, none met her standards.
She's been baking bread for over 50 years, the old fashioned way. By hand, that is.
She recently found a machine she likes. I can't get the name of it right now, because it's in the kitchen and I've got a dog in my lap. And you know the rules - a dog in your lap means you don't get up unless the house is on fire.

 

[Bacpacker]

We've had one for several years. It makes good bread and the wife tried several recipes. But I liked the bread so much we had to stop. Now its just a loaf for treat every now and then

 

[Patchouli]

@Peanut I don't know if this will make any difference or what your instructions indicate...Someone said, I forget who, whether it was online somewhere else, or here, that when adding the salt add it to the liquid ingredients. My L.H. had the bread making down to a fine art. He could make it fine in the machine but we preferred the bread to mix, knead, rise in the machine, then he'd knead again, rise again by hand, then complete the bread in the oven. I've tried quite a few times since but I don't quite have the touch for it, in the machine or the oven.
It also seems to matter to follow the booklet instead of the yeast packets or bulk yeast in the jar. Your testing may be different. Good luck on your next batch.

 

[Peanut]

I read up on them before buying. Got the Cuisinart haertig posted. Figured at the least it does the mixing, resting etc. The stand mixers for making dough are pricey. This machine was in my budget.

My stove has a good oven, does very even baking. At some point in the future i will try baking something besides a pizza or a frozen pie. Not there yet.

 

[Neb]

That loaf does look slightly small, but not too bad. The basic white bread recipe in my machine makes a loaf that is a bit dense but rather crumbly. Not the best for making sandwiches because it falls apart, but very nice as a thick slice with plenty of butter and honey for a snack. I find the Italian recipe in the owner's manual makes a better sandwich bread.
The extra beeps are for when recipes call for adding things after the dough has mixed a bit, usually something like fruits or raisins. The recipe will usually specify holding something out til the beeps.
I have a big book of bread machine recipes and it's great fun to experiment; I've made cinnamon bread and raisin bread and tomato bread and so on. But my favorite is a fruit bread that uses the chopped up candied fruit that is on sale this time of year for fruit cakes.
My machine is an old, inexpensive sort of unit that my sister in law gave me; she had found it left behind by an old couple she bought a house from. I just love it because it really made me think of my Grandma; it was kept in pristine condition, the owner's manual was with it, and I found the recipe for that fruit bread on an index card in the manual, written in cursive that looked much like Grandma's. Gave me a feeling of connection, you know? My Grandparents always took great care of their things, kept the manuals, and made notes.
Anyways, once you play with it a while you'll get to recognizing if it needs more water or more flour by the way it sounds when it's mixing. Even if everything is measured perfectly, bread always seems to need some sort of organic intervention. If it sounds like it's working too hard and I see unincorporated flour, I add just a bit of water until the flour is in and it makes a good dough ball. And occasionally it will be going like crazy, and the dough is sloppy so I add a tiny bit of flour. Doesn't take much either way to get it back on track again.
Hope you have lots of fun with it!
Now I'm wanting to get mine going again, and I have absolutely no idea which one of these hundreds of moving boxes it might be packed in!

Re: crumbly

The Princess makes me comb out my beard after bread machine bread. She has been trying corn starch.


Ben

 

[rice paddy daddy]

My wife's current machine, the one she likes, is an Elite Gourmet Programmable 2 LB model.
She also occasionally still uses the dough hook on her Kitchen Aid and does it the old way.

 

[backlash]

I gave our away. I liked the bread way too much.

 

[Haertig]

A one pound loaf was smaller than I expected. Must have screwed up the yeast somehow. Unless it’s supposed to be this small, don’t know? Tastes fine but a little dry. Seems a little dense too.

That loaf looks very small. Even for a one pounder. And you say it's dense. It looks like it didn't rise very well to me.

Did you use brand new fresh yeast? That stuff has a limited lifespan. There should be a date on the yeast package. Maybe somebody sold you old stock, or it had been transported to your store under bad (yeast-killing) conditions? If it was older yeast (but not so old as to be dead) and you were storing it in the refrigerator (that's how you're supposed to store it), did you let it warm up to room temperature? All your ingredients should be room temperature before your start mixing them. I get everything out, measure it into separate containers (a "container" may be a teaspoon, or a pile on a plate, a bowl, or a measuring cup, etc.), then I walk away for 30 to 45 minutes for everything to warm. When I come back, everything is measured, warmed and ready for mixing together. I can dump everything into the bread maker and get it started in about a minute. I don't want to lollygag around taking forever to mix the ingredients. I don't want the yeast taking a swim or eating on the sugar while I'm dragging my feet getting all the ingredients put together. I want to dump everything in and hit that "start" button quickly.

I followed the instructions precisely, calculated all measurements to the gram, no substitution of ingredients. Unbleached ap so it isn’t white. It listed unsalted butter, I used Maggie butter (a friends cow). Don’t know if that mattered. It called for room temp water and nonfat dry milk. I could have used maggie milk, probably would taste better.

Unsalted butter is for taste. Supposedly it tastes better than salted butter. Other than that, I'm not sure it matters. If you substitute real milk for the dry powder, make sure you decrease the water by the same amount of milk that you are adding. You want the total liquid volume to remain the same, whether that volume is all water, or a water/milk mix.

If your recipe calls for 2 tbsp of dry milk and 1 cup of water, you could change that to 1/2 cup milk and 1/2 cup water (total liquid volume remains the same). I came up with "1/2 cup milk" because the 2 tbsp of powdered milk that you are omitting is the equivalent of about 1/2 cup of real milk.

It beeped sooner than I expected, the message “Add” was flashing. Add what? All ingredients were added in order during step one. So I left it running… It beeped later with “Paddle” flashing just before baking.

The first series of beeps, when it says "add", is when you would add extra ingredients that you are mixing in. Like raisins and cinnamon, or chopped walnuts, seeds, etc. Plain white bread doesn't have any added ingredients, so just ignore that first string of beeps.

It beeps again when it is done with all the stirring, mixing and kneading so that you can remove the paddle if you want to.

Looks like someone didn't read their instruction manual.

You're still going to have a small hole in the bottom of your loaf where the shaft that the paddle attaches to is. That shaft is fixed, and its impression will be there in your loaf paddle or not. I have just left the paddle in. I don't find the hole it leaves objectionable.

---

FWIW, below is the recipe I used for my first and second loaves. Just the opposite of yours, mine rose more than I expected. The bread was very airy and light. So for the second time I made this recipe, I decreased the yeast by 1/4 teaspoon. I also substituted skim milk for the powdered milk. The second loaf came out pretty much perfectly in the rising and density department. Of course my wife liked the first loaf better. Because it was so airy that it toasted up much like an English muffin. I gotta admit, that super light texture was great when toasted.

I don't know the altitude where you live, but I am just a bit over a mile high and I'm pretty sure you are lower. Bread rises more at altitude. Also note that I used "bread flour" rather than "all-purpose flour". Bread flour will rise better than all-purpose. Because bread flour is specifically made for that purpose. It contains more gluten than all-purpose flour. Gluten makes the bread more elastic, and it will trap more of the gases produced by the yeast, giving it a better rise. Note that you can buy "vital wheat gluten" and add that to all-purpose flour to make it like bread flour. Note that "vital wheat gluten" is NOT the same as "vital wheat gluten flour". Vital wheat gluten is just the gluten, without the flour.

Now, if anybody laughs at me keeping my bread making experiments in a spreadsheet, along with measuring the temp and humidity in my house at the bread makers location with my Kestrel weather meter, and documenting the ingredients down to the specific brand name - I put a hex on you! You can never have too much data when you're trying to analyze results.

Recipe for my first white bread loaf:

Recipe for my second white bread loaf (very minor changes from first loaf):

 

[lonewolf]

we had a bread machine back along but it dosent seem worth it for just two people, the bread dosent last long as it dosent have the preservatives of commercial bread and we would need to be making bread every day.

 

[WVDragonlady]

I only use mine to make the dough.
I let the final rise in my regular bread pan and then bake in the oven.
We like our bread to be sandwich size, hence the bread pan and not those big square size breads.
If I plan to make Italian or a French loaf, I shape it myself then let rise and bake in the oven.
Same thing for making rolls.
My machine is very old and bought it for $10 at a yard sale many years ago.
I can make 2 loaves at a time if I want.

 

[lonewolf]

we could only make one loaf in ours, the basket was very small.

 

[Tim Horton]

Used a machine to make ...specialty... loafs for lack of a better term.. Cinnamon bread, raisin, dry cranberry, dry currents and the like.. Like said, loaf size is about right to use up without preservatives...

A couple times a year I get a craving for wheat bread usually using the WW2 recipe for the British National Loaf..

Nothing Fancy Wartime Loaf

* 600 ml (1 pint) of warm water
* 5 teaspoons of quick rise yeast
* couple pinches of sugar
* 2 lb of wholewheat (wholemeal) flour
* 1.5 teaspoons salt
* 1 tablespoon rolled oats (for top)
* spoonful or butter or margarine (or a drizzle of vegetable oil)

Method

Place flour in large bowl
Mix in all dry ingredients except the rolled oats
Add fat (or drizzle in vegetable oil)
Pour in warm water
Mix thoroughly
When dough comes together knead for 10 minutes until dough is silky
Place back in bowl and cover
Let dough rise somewhere warm until doubled in size
Knead dough briefly again
Place dough into 4 x 1/2 lb tins (or 2 x 1 lb tins) that have been floured
Brush top with a little water and sprinkle on some rolled oats
Leave to rise for around 20 minutes
PLace in oven at 180 0C for around 30-40 mins (depending on the size of the loaf)
Remove from oven
Cool for at least 15 minutes before cutting

PS Note that the original recipe called for old fashioned yeast but I replaced with quick rise yeast (it simply is very hard to get hold of those little squares of yeast that would have been used)

 

[Weedygarden]

If we have power, I think a bread maker is an excellent thing to have and use, especially if we are in a time of little access to food.

This is where storing wheat or alternative grains can come in very handy. Wheat has been found in caves in the Middle East that was centuries old and still sprouted. Store it in 5 gallon buckets in a cool, dry place, preferably in mylar, and it will last indefinitely. White flour has a limited shelf life.

We do have a couple of threads about breadmakers. There may be more threads about them.

https://www.homesteadingforum.org/threads/bread-question-using-a-simple-bread-machine.13869/
https://www.homesteadingforum.org/threads/anyone-have-or-use-a-bread-maker.11748/

 

[Peanut]

Did you use brand new fresh yeast? That stuff has a limited lifespan. There should be a date on the yeast package.

Looks like someone didn't read their instruction manual.

I don't know the altitude where you live, but I am just a bit over a mile high and I'm pretty sure you are lower. Bread rises more at altitude. Also note that I used "bread flour" rather than "all-purpose flour...

Everything i used was purchased this week except butter, i keep a few sticks in the freezer. The best by date on the yeast was sep2025. Checked it at the store. Everything was at room temp before i started so not an issue.

Out of curiosity I checked the barometric pressure when i started, 30.09. Stayed steady, wasn't sure if it'd have an effect so I logged it for future reference.

In my manual the 'add' message isn't mentioned in the program steps for white bread or the operating instructions. It's only mentioned in a list labeled 'Optional'. Poor writing, if it was going to appear in the white bread program it should have been listed there. Clearly, english wasn't the first language of the people who wrote the guide.

Anyway, I'm going to repeat the experiment without changes to have a baseline. I suspect the yeast is the issue even though i just purchased it and it's 18months from expiration. Yesterday it was at room temp, unopened. It's been in the freezer since last night so will need to warm up before next use.

Also of note... the flour i used may be a problem. I stopped at 2 stores looking for unbleached all purpose flour, nether store had it. They did have unbleached self-rising all purpose flour. This is what i used.

They did have expensive 'organic' unbleached all purpose flour. I bought a bag just in case there was an issue with the self-rising AP flour. Got a feeling this is the problem...

I actually bought 2 jars of yeast. I used bread machine instant yeast. The unopened jar is active dry yeast.

 

[winds-of-change]

We've had one for several years. It makes good bread and the wife tried several recipes. But I liked the bread so much we had to stop. Now its just a loaf for treat every now and then

Haha. I agree. I have one but I was eating too much bread and butter I had to slow down on it. It took me a few trial runs to get a decent loaf but you definitely learn along the way. I like my bread machine but because of my lack of control, for right now it sits on a shelf in the pantry.

Peanut, that doesn’t look too bad for a first loaf. My first loaf was very, VERY dense.

I like to let the machine make the dough and I bake it in a Pullman pan in the oven. I just like the shape better.

 

[Haertig]

Everything i used was purchased this week except butter, i keep a few sticks in the freezer. The best by date on the yeast was sep2025. Checked it at the store. Everything was at room temp before i started so not an issue.

Sounds like you did everything right. That Bread Machine Instant Yeast you used is the exact same stuff I use. You find this brand in about every grocery store, it is probably the most common one you can find. You do want to use Rapid Rise yeast in a bread maker, but that Fleischmann's stuff you bought is exactly that. Red Star makes a rapid rise yeast too, but I've never had any of that and don't know if that jar you have is the rapid rise stuff or not (hey, I'm new at this bread machine thing too, it will be a while until I have to buy a second jar or yeast!)

It may be worthwhile to test your yeast:

https://www.masterclass.com/articles/how-to-test-yeast
Ha! You checked your barometric pressure too! I did that, but didn't put it in my spreadsheet because I couldn't find any bread maker articles that mention it (I should have saved it - I'll probably add it to my spreadsheet now). FWIW, my pressure was 30.1 for the first loaf (I remember that number) and 30.0 (IIRC) for the second loaf. But that is relative barometric pressure which is adjusted so it's the equivalent of sea level. My actual local station pressure is less, because I'm at higher elevation. Your local station pressure in Alabama would be higher than mine in Colorado. I'll have to dig deeper to see how local station pressure affects bread making. Obviously it must, because of statements like "bread rises faster at elevation". Probably the day to day variations in pressure at a given altitude don't have any effect, but the one time jump change as you move to a new altitude might.

 

[Peanut]

Ha! You checked your barometric pressure too! I did that, but didn't put it in my spreadsheet because I couldn't find any bread maker articles that mention it (I should have saved it - I'll probably add it to my spreadsheet now).... Probably the day to day variations in pressure at a given altitude don't have any effect, but the one time jump change as you move to a new altitude might.

B. pressure affects the speed at which water boils and home canning. Probably affects bread making also but is negligible. Like you I could find no statements on the topic.

 

[Bacpacker]

Spreadsheets for bread making. Good lord that sounds like something I'd do. I've got spreadsheets for all kinds of stuff, work and home

 

[Tommyice]

i’ve got two bread makers—one largest loaf is 2# the other is three. the smaller one has one paddle and no audible for when to take it out. The larger one has two paddles and an alert for removal.

I put my water in the pan. Then add the butter, milk powder, sugar and salt. Flour goes on top and then the yeast in a depression in the flour made by the the dish my yeast is measured into.

 

[kd4ulw]

They did have unbleached self-rising all purpose flour. This is what i used.

Ah, I believe that is your problem. Self rising flour has baking powder in it that reacts with water and creates the leavening, mostly used for biscuits and pancakes.. The following article talks about the problems of adding yeast to a flour with a quick acting leavening agent like baking powder.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

Can you use self raising flour to make bread?

Of course you can! After all, the difference between self raising flour and plain flour is that it has baking powder and some salt added to it.

Baking powder acts very similarly to soda when making bread and the Irish just love soda breads! In contrast to yeast, baking powder acts very differently when making bread. As soon as water is combined with the self-raising flour it starts to act, producing air bubbles that give the bread that fluffy appearance and texture.

On the other hand, yeast requires time to digest the sugars and ferment the bread. So while a yeast bread may need 4-5 hours to prove this self raising flour bread is ready to bake almost immediately.

Do you need yeast when using self-raising flour to make bread?

No, at least not the traditional bread yeast. When using self rising flour the bread proofs much faster. Therefore, if you also add yeast to it you will need to wait for it to act.

As a result your bread will be way over-proofed and will most likely collapse while baking.

 

[Shawn Burkett]

The "add" was for when you are making things like raisin bread. Add the raisins or nuts when it flashes or alerts. The one time I added raisins in the beginning it pulverized them.

I have in a pinch used part self-raising flour. Didn't notice a difference. Since them I came across a recipe for angel rolls, it uses yeast, baking powder, and baking soda. A couple friends on FB say it works well.

I experiment with bread recipes all the time. Keep in mind that you want your recipe to have the same amount of ingredients as the ones in your machine's recipe book. Otherwise it may not knead or bake it correctly.

 

[Haertig]

Ah, I believe that is your problem. Self rising flour has baking powder in it...

That is good to know. I had heard of self rising flour, but didn't know what it was exactly, or what it is used for.

My next trip to the store I was going to buy some baking soda and baking powder and all-purpose flour to make banana bread. That bread does not use yeast. Sounds like this self rising flour is similar to how banana bread would work. I won't substitute it in my banana bread attempt, but it's good to know what it is. Thanks.

I did some research on bleached vs. unbleached flour. This is not what makes a flour "white" (for white bread). Whether it's white or not depends on if the germ and bran parts of the grain are discarded or included in the flour. But there must me some difference between bleached vs. unbleached. According to an article I found, there's not much difference in the end baking result (there is a difference in the manufacturing process) and they think you can use the two interchangeably. But the article does say that others may have different opinions. "Bleached" sounds more processed and also sounds like it would be "more bad for you", but I don't think this is the case after reading the article.

https://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/packages/baking-guide/bleached-flour-vs-unbleached

 

[winds-of-change]

I think sometimes the weather (humidity) can affect the outcome of the bread.

 

[Shawn Burkett]

Self rising flour is perfect for banana bread and pretty much anything that uses baking powder. I also use it for anything you would use Bisquick or baking mix for. Rolled bisquits, drop bisquits, pancakes, etc. Just add the fat/oil and liquid needed for your recipe. It's way cheaper than baking mix if you use it.

 

[Weedygarden]

Spreadsheets for bread making. Good lord that sounds like something I'd do. I've got spreadsheets for all kinds of stuff, work and home

Me, too! But truly this can be helpful!

 

[Weedygarden]

I think sometimes the weather (humidity) can affect the outcome of the bread.

Flour absorbs humidity.

 

[MoBookworm1957]

My bread machine is in the cabinet.
I do it the old fashion way.
Might make sure you didn't use regular yeast instead of bread machine yeast.
It does make a difference.