Calling all car mecanics...

[DrHenley]

I had something happen that I need to run by a "modern" mechanic and see what you make of it.

The "Check Engine" light and "Track Off" light (traction control) on wife's Toyota came on a couple of days ago. I looked it up online and there are a myriad of things that can cause that, but a fairly common cause is a loose gas cap which trips a low pressure switch in the emissions system. That also disables the cruise control. I checked, and sure enough, the gas cap was loose. Unfortunately fixing the problem doesn't clear the error, and you need a code reader to reset it.

I was going to go by NAPA and get a code reader but my wife went to the Toyota dealer without telling me.

Several hours later the service department still had no idea what was causing the problem, only that the "driver wasn't communicating with the pressure switch properly."

Their diagnostic protocol called for first replacing the driver, then troubleshooting from there. They said it could be a loose wire, a bad pressure switch, or a bad computer, among other things, but they wouldn't know until replacing the driver. And if it was a bad computer they would have to order one.

They claimed that it was NOT caused by the loose gas cap.

Fine, except we were out of town and had to drive 450 miles home the next day (today).

I asked if it was safe to drive home and take it to the shop once we got home. I was assured that it was.

So I paid a $100 diagnostics charge and we left. All the warning lights were still on and we would have to drive 450 miles home without cruise control.

Today when we set off, power was reduced to the point that we could barely make 40 MPH. So we went back to the Toyota place and told them what happened.

They put it on the rack and came back and said that it was in "Limp Mode" but that they had reset it and now it should not happen again. No charge.

When my wife started the car, no more "Check Engine" light, no more "Trac Off" light, the cruise control worked, and the engine had full power.

We drove 450 miles home without any problems. Still no warning lights.

 

[Oddcaliber]

Dealership will try to bend you over. Any reputable auto shop can do a diagnosis as long as there equipment is updated. Going to the dealer is a last resort unless it's the only game in town or your vehicle is still under warranty. See this all day every day. Glad things worked out in your favor.

 

[DrHenley]

My wife insists on taking her car to a Toyota dealer. Even though she doesn't trust the one here anymore after her favorite service manager, Joey, left.

Any time I get even a whiff of a repair shop trying to fleece me, I call them on it and then I'm out the door never to return.

 

[Oddcaliber]

Find an independent shop that specializes in the car you have. Way better than the dealer in most cases.

 

[DrHenley]

Honest auto repair shops are a critically endangered species, LOL. They do still exist, just hard to find and then hard to get an appointment with.

 

[Oddcaliber]

Right up there with an honest politician! LOL

 

[KateMTx]

Right up there with an honest politician! LOL

I'm scared to take my car to the shop because they always want me to do all kinds of repairs that are thousands of dollars. It's an old car but it still runs well (Toyota Corolla). The few times I have had to get things fixed I go where someone I know recommends and knows someone personally to be honest. My boss is pretty knowledgeable about cars so if I have any doubts about what they tell me I usually ask him if it seems reasonable. Also multiple people have informed me never to take my car to the dealership if I can avoid it because they are not honest and are in fact trained to cheat people.

 

[Oddcaliber]

The shop where I work at has an inspection sheet with the work order. Example, you bring your car in for an oil change and tire rotation. We do look at things like brakes,suspension, exhaust, wipers,lights ect. I can only recommend repairs. It's really up to the customer weather they want to spend the money. Ultimately it your vehicle and your money. I'm just the guy working on your car.

 

[MNwr786]

O'reilly's (not that I like their junk parts) does offer the free use of their code readers. Just stop by, get the codes, reset the error code list and go home to do your own research online.

Traction control is run on the same sensors as the ABS system. If you have a bad wheel bearing, you might see either of these errors. Does the vehicle hum going into mostly left or mostly right curves?

 

[Jayson]

My Nissan Frontier had the Check Engine and Slip/VDC lights come on, similar to your Trac system. I used a OBD2 code reader to trace it to a camshaft position sensor that was defective.
This sensor monitors the camshaft speed and position, and tells the ECM (Engine Control Module) when to send sparks to the cylinders. I found the part on Amazon for about $15. Problem solved.
Until I replaced the sensor, my truck would periodically lurch because the ECM was sending off-timing signals to the spark plugs. Sometimes while driving, the engine would shut off. Maybe your Toyota is similar to my Nissan.

 

[EastenerWesterner]

The OBDII code reader will help with the check engine light. Handy $100 tool to have. From my experience with GM, you go one step back from the code, and that fixes the problem-ie PO445 you gotta find out what PO444 test was.
The traction TSC is a different system than the OBDII system on my old Landcruiser I was throwing TSC/VSR lights and it was a problem with the brakes.
I am not a mechanic, just experienced

 

[MNwr786]

We need to bring back the 4-barrel carb and mechanical fuel pump. When a 1985 Caprice Classic with a 5.0L V8 made of solid Detroit steel gets the same highway gas mileage as the plastic death-trap trash made today.... How can so many people still believe the solution is in this electronic garbage saturated in DEF fluid? The few emissions it prevents, the little fuel it saves, none of it justifies all the money that goes into making it work and keeping it working. Its all about manufacturing fake jobs for less than ambitious people at the people's expense in the name of progress.

I had an 04' Pontiac Sunfire with a 2.2L 4-cylinder. In 2005, reports started coming out that the check engine light would come on at 30k miles just after the warranty expired to get you back in the shop. Sure enough, just before 31k miles, the light came on. Guess what I did...... I added a switch to the little purple wire leading to the vehicle speed sensor on the transmission and, once it shifted to 5th gear, I hit the switch and gave it all she had with that dumb light on. It can't shut down at 112MPH if it don't know how fast it's going. The way home involved some back roads and several railroad crossings in southern MN between Jackson and Sherburn provided the air time needed to thoroughly test everything. That light must not have been to critical because the next day it didn't come back on.

 

[EastenerWesterner]

In my 93 Dakota, just went behind the dash and clipped the wire to the Check engine light. Problem solved if you don’t have to do smog check.

 

[DrHenley]

Tale of two Midas's
I was taking my truck to a Midas for oil changes. After many years of going there, they suddenly started coming up with crap and I called them on it. Seems like I had all sorts of mysterious leaks of fluids that needed to be fixed (the carport floor under the truck was clean as a whistle). My serpentine belt was dry rotted (I looked at it, no it wasn't). I needed an expensive fuel system treatment because of ethanol in the fuel. I asked what that entailed and it was basically like pouring a can of Seafoam ethanol treatment in the gas tank. I had an oil leak in the "upper gasket" which was very expensive to change out. I asked him what the oil level was when I brought it in for the oil change (clean carport floor, remember), "Uh, um..." (it was full)
So next time I took it to a different Midas. Mechanic: "Your truck is in great shape for its age" (15 years old) Didn't need a thing other than the normal filter changes.

 

[Wiredog8]

and that is why I drive an 85 El Camino. No computer/ 4 barrel holly carb/ hooker headers and no cats.
And I still get an inspection sticker every year

I love playing with the telemarketers trying to sell extended warranties.
I ask a ton of questions then finally tell them the make/ model of my car. Usually they just hang up on me. :WTHeck:

 

[Sierra6]

They are referred to as “Stealerships” in most forums online. Avoid them unless you have warranty. Most auto parts stores will read your CELs (Check engine lights) and clear them for free. If it’s something really bad you can take it to a mechanic. Good luck!

 

[Helen Back]

Tale of two Midas's
I was taking my truck to a Midas for oil changes. After many years of going there, they suddenly started coming up with crap and I called them on it. Seems like I had all sorts of mysterious leaks of fluids that needed to be fixed (the carport floor under the truck was clean as a whistle). My serpentine belt was dry rotted (I looked at it, no it wasn't). I needed an expensive fuel system treatment because of ethanol in the fuel. I asked what that entailed and it was basically like pouring a can of Seafoam ethanol treatment in the gas tank. I had an oil leak in the "upper gasket" which was very expensive to change out. I asked him what the oil level was when I brought it in for the oil change (clean carport floor, remember), "Uh, um..." (it was full)
So next time I took it to a different Midas. Mechanic: "Your truck is in great shape for its age" (15 years old) Didn't need a thing other than the normal filter changes.

Surprised they didn't try to sell you blinker fluid.

 

[Mountain trapper]

My "expert" mechanic opinion is, trade it in on a Ford Explorer or a Jeep Grand Cherokee.

 

[Oddcaliber]

My truck is a 2002 Mountaineer. Basically an up badged Explorer. LOL

 

[DrHenley]

My "expert" mechanic opinion is, trade it in on a Ford Explorer

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. We also had an Expedition. My wife dearly loved her Expedition, but it was a white elephant.

We could easily sell the wife's 2016 4Runner today for several thousand more than what we paid for it. And she put a lot of miles on it.

 

[DrHenley]

So the reason I'm asking for a "professional opinion" is I don't understand how on day one, they work on it all afternoon and say they need hours or days more of work to fix the problem. And then on day two say "We reset the code, no charge" and now everything is fine.

My gut instinct is "Moron Mechanic" on day one.

 

[Mountain Dragon]

Guess they just had no idea where the problem is and no one had the courage to tell so - also tried to fix the problem somehow to not dissapoint the customer and don't loosing face. Perhaps just the system was hanging by itself, i had this by my '92 Buick. Battery disconnected for an hour, reconnect, clean the failure-counter and never had the same problem again.
But it was an car fron the early 90thies - with newer cars you have to take care, if you got bad luck you can reboot the whole software. No idea how sensitive your Toyota is in this way, i'm not into electronics really, but having an greater knowledge in old italian and american cars or 2-stroke Sachs engines.

 

[MNwr786]

About 30 years ago, the Cenex in Rush City MN was putting BB's in tires.

 

[user 7000]

So the reason I'm asking for a "professional opinion" is I don't understand how on day one, they work on it all afternoon and say they need hours or days more of work to fix the problem. And then on day two say "We reset the code, no charge" and now everything is fine.

My gut instinct is "Moron Mechanic" on day one.

Nailed it. I develop wiring information for the dealer techs. When it comes to electrical issues, they're clueless. You just got a better (more experienced) tech at the second dealer. Or dealer number one was trying to soak the out of towners.

 

[user 7000]

Actual "Diagnosis and Trouble Shooting" has been replaced by a computer that tells what needs replacing, and a "parts cannon".

 

[DrHenley]

Nailed it. I develop wiring information for the dealer techs. When it comes to electrical issues, they're clueless. You just got a better (more experienced) tech at the second dealer. Or dealer number one was trying to soak the out of towners.

Same dealer.

 

[Dracos]

I am sure many of you know, but all of you should know that the "check engine light" is like stone soup. The dealerships want that on your dashboard to extract money from you. Most of the time it is nothing. Many times it is a temporary glitch. They are happy to take $100.00 from you to do nothing. Try this. Disconnect the negative battery cable for 10 seconds. Connect it and reset your clock and other electronics. 90% of the time that is all you need to do. I know there is desire by car dealerships to send death squads after me for sharing this. I am hard to find and harder to kill.

 

[Iron range]

My wife insists on taking her car to a Toyota dealer. Even though she doesn't trust the one here anymore after her favorite service manager, Joey, left.

Any time I get even a whiff of a repair shop trying to fleece me, I call them on it and then I'm out the door never to return.

I bought a Bosch code reader for like 250 bucks to clear codes and what not gives you top few fixes etc. Its not a full blown diagnostic but it does most basic stuff o2 sensors cylinder misfires abs i don't know how to run it to fully

 

[user 7000]

Same dealer.

Well then, you answered your own question.

 

[ranger0283]

I had something happen that I need to run by a "modern" mechanic and see what you make of it.

The "Check Engine" light and "Track Off" light (traction control) on wife's Toyota came on a couple of days ago. I looked it up online and there are a myriad of things that can cause that, but a fairly common cause is a loose gas cap which trips a low pressure switch in the emissions system. That also disables the cruise control. I checked, and sure enough, the gas cap was loose. Unfortunately fixing the problem doesn't clear the error, and you need a code reader to reset it.

I was going to go by NAPA and get a code reader but my wife went to the Toyota dealer without telling me.

Several hours later the service department still had no idea what was causing the problem, only that the "driver wasn't communicating with the pressure switch properly."

Their diagnostic protocol called for first replacing the driver, then troubleshooting from there. They said it could be a loose wire, a bad pressure switch, or a bad computer, among other things, but they wouldn't know until replacing the driver. And if it was a bad computer they would have to order one.

They claimed that it was NOT caused by the loose gas cap.

Fine, except we were out of town and had to drive 450 miles home the next day (today).

I asked if it was safe to drive home and take it to the shop once we got home. I was assured that it was.

So I paid a $100 diagnostics charge and we left. All the warning lights were still on and we would have to drive 450 miles home without cruise control.

Today when we set off, power was reduced to the point that we could barely make 40 MPH. So we went back to the Toyota place and told them what happened.

They put it on the rack and came back and said that it was in "Limp Mode" but that they had reset it and now it should not happen again. No charge.

When my wife started the car, no more "Check Engine" light, no more "Trac Off" light, the cruise control worked, and the engine had full power.

We drove 450 miles home without any problems. Still no warning lights.

Try this, disconnect the negative ground from the battery for 5 minutes, and then reconnect it. It might clear the codes depending on the age of the car. Also, if the gas cap is not sealing well enough, a replacement can be had from the usual retail shops. Cost is less than 10 bucks. Also I got an Autel AutoLink AL519 OBD2 scanner off Amazon for $60 which does a little bit more diagnostic stuff beyond reading and deleting codes.

​