Helpful Info. Chlorine Dioxide is not a miracle, its just wonderful chemistry

[MNwr786]

Maybe the body wraps the cd in some oxidizer-resistant bubble (because its so good at that, you know) and transports it right to the bad stuff (because it knows where every virus and bacteria are hiding) and sets it free like a hungry pitbull to take care of business (because it can see the bad stuff and go straight to it). Lol and just like magic, the CD only oxidizes the bad stuff.

Its literally a miracle that none of the "CD experts" out there can explain. Educate me in your own expert words without linking to some questionable half-assed study someone probably faked in their living room. How does it know good cells from bad? It should be an easy question for people so qualified to convince others to drink it.

 

[Survivor_316]

Well, it didn't seem to help me much because this morning I am worse than I was yesterday, so I think it's a moot point for me anyway. No point in arguing over it.

Back to my medicinal herbs.

 

[Proud Prepper]

I wasnt concerned with the explosiveness of the gas, just thought that part of the video was cool and informative.

The issue I have, regardless of ppm, is that it is an oxidizer. Pay attention now... Most people can agree that antioxidants are good for a person because antioxidants scavenge radicals etc that are caused by oxidants, so why intentionally put an oxidant in your body knowing it causes harm? PP likes to get super defensive right away but thats fine. If it can bleach paper, telling people to drink it is probably more misleading than me suggesting its not safe.

Ive been exposed to mercury salts, Im still here. Ive been exposed to lead, Im still here. Ive played with cyanide, azide, and deadly fluorine compounds and im still here. Just because you expose yourself to miniscule amounts of something with no immediate ill effect, it doesnt make it safe and it doesnt prove you are right in telling others it is safe.

Ive been drinking alcohol for 25 years, im still here, but how does my liver look? I have no clue. I dont go around advocating for alcohol even though a hot toddy would probably make a person feel better than cd solution ever could.

When someone insists you trust them with enough passion to spend hours telling you about it. then gets immediately defensive when you engage in debate by simply asking "how does that oxidizer know good cells from bad" with no reasonable response other than to "do more research", I am not sure that I am the one who needs to research it.

Tell me how it knows good cells from viruses, go ahead, explain that mechanism to me. Bet you cant.

I understand your concerns. Everything else is absurd. I posted the information and links. I'm not here to post anymore info for people who want to argue or play games. Don't use CDS, don't even research it, it doesn't matter to me.

 

[Proud Prepper]

Well, it didn't seem to help me much because this morning I am worse than I was yesterday, so I think it's a moot point for me anyway. No point in arguing over it.

Back to my medicinal herbs.

It probably didn't need to help you much. It doesn't heal your body, it destroys wants harming your body and your body heals itself.

 

[Survivor_316]

It probably didn't need to help you much. It doesn't heal your body, it destroys wants harming your body and your body heals itself.

It definitely could be. I know better than throwing everything at an illness at once and not knowing what is actually helping, but when I feel like crap, I can't help myself.

I could get through chemo, cancer meds, debilitating pain, weakness, and spontaneous bleeding due to low platelet counts, but I get a headache and I'm the biggest baby alive.

 

[GeorgiaPeachie]

I mixed it according to the Andreas Klacker instructions because I was a little reluctant to take the straight mixture.

This is a guy I totally trust on this subject. And I don’t give trust easily.

 

[Proud Prepper]

Maybe the body wraps the cd in some oxidizer-resistant bubble (because its so good at that, you know) and transports it right to the bad stuff (because it knows where every virus and bacteria are hiding) and sets it free like a hungry pitbull to take care of business (because it can see the bad stuff and go straight to it). Lol and just like magic, the CD only oxidizes the bad stuff.

Its literally a miracle that none of the "CD experts" out there can explain. Educate me in your own expert words without linking to some questionable half-assed study someone probably faked in their living room. How does it know good cells from bad? It should be an easy question for people so qualified to convince others to drink it.

Someone asked me to be nice to ignorant people, even those who want to start arguments.

First of all, it is an oxidant, that is, a substance that facilitates combustion because it adds oxygen to all processes, unlike other medicines.
Oxygen does not accumulate in the body and therefore it is a very different pharmacodynamic process.
Furthermore, oxidation is used in a similar and natural way by our defense cells, such as neutrophils in the process of phagocytosis, which is nothing more than engulf and burn the enemy, in a very simple way.

At the moment we can find 1326 scientific studies on chlorine dioxide in pubMed, where most of them focus on the safety of toxicity in consumption.
There are relatively few papers that are investigating therapeutic efficacy to date.

It has been observed that many media, especially in large chains, warn of the danger of chlorine dioxide based on an anecdotal testimony that is not scientific at all from an FDA (Food and Drug Administration, USA) statement.
This release warns against taking chlorine dioxide without specifying the amount, concentration, or duration of the suspected toxicity. Claiming that a substance is toxic without even stating the amounts has no validity whatsoever.
Nor can Health agencies around the world cite scientifically proven cases that prove it or studies in this regard and this warning has been distributed throughout the world where health agencies warn copying and pasting this data without any verification.
A medical professional or toxicologist knows that any substance in extreme amounts or very strong concentrations is toxic to the human body and when we compare the toxicity of chlorine dioxide (340 milligrams per kilo in male mice) it is practically the same as caffeine (367 milligrams per kilo in male mice). It means that a healthy 70kg person should take around 23.000mg for 14 days to become intoxicated, which is absolutely impossible.
According to studies reflected in a report by the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) NOAEL is 3 milligrams per kilo of body weight per day. This is equivalent to 70 mg in the 210 kg person and 50 mg daily in a 150 kg person without having any toxic effect.
The maximum amount of the recommended protocols does not exceed 20 mg daily in adults. To speak of a danger due to the ingestion of chlorine dioxide at these amounts is completely absurd and even more after 13 years of experiences I do not know of any serious problem with CDS. There are thousands of people who have also given their testimonies on the Internet confirming its efficacy and safety at the same time.
One of the most important aspects is that chlorine dioxide is extremely soluble in water without creating chemical bonds, that is, it is a gas that really dissolves completely in water. This is because it has a molecular structure that is extremely similar to the water molecule so that for this and other reasons, it dissolves completely.
Chlorine dioxide is known to be the best known disinfectant, since it is capable of eliminating both bacteria, fungi, viruses, and small parasites, in a wide pH range. It has been used for 80 years to disinfect drinking water, without causing problems in all these years.
It is widely used in industry for disinfection.
It is also used for paper bleaching, but in extreme concentrations and amounts that have nothing to do with the dose of ingestion.
CDS is just the gas in the mix bubbled by the water that is pH neutral and has many advantages, as it does not usually cause irritations or side effects like MMS or CD can. However, both have their therapeutic properties.

To answer your challenge, I bet I can.

There is no evidence that it adversely affects the intestinal flora. CDS is absorbed from the stomach as it is a gas dissolved in water. CDS works by pH, and harmful pathogens typically have a more acidic pH than the rest of the body and bacteria that are in symbiosis with it. On the other hand, even if it eliminates bacteria, it does not cause imbalance or toxicity like antibiotics.

I'll also add that the oxidation process of CDS only last about an hour and then turns to normal salt and is passed from the body normally.

 

[DrHenley]

Tell me how it knows good cells from viruses, go ahead, explain that mechanism to me. Bet you cant.

I had that same concern, so it's a reasonable question.
It works the same way as the free radicals your immune system creates to fight infections. Yes, that is EXACTLY how your body fights bacteria and viruses - with free radicals. How do those free radicals know good cells from viruses?

I'll leave to ponder that while I compose a much longer answer.

 

[Survivor_316]

Ok...

I don't know enough about the biochemistry of healthy human cells vs. viruses and the state of stability of ions in the cellular membranes to have much of an opinion. I do, however, understand that the basic transfer of ions is the foundation of cellular activity. For example, the transfer of ions is how T cells are activated. How each process occurs is solely dependent upon the molecular structure and charge of each lipid/compound/protein/acid involved.

When you consider what a ROS is, it makes sense that chemically, there would be distinction between the way it acts upon viruses and healthy human cells. Even on unhealthy human cells. A cancerous cell does not have the same cellular membrane charge as a healthy cell. So it wouldn't surprise me if there was a biochemical reaction that made it act upon some cells and not others.

Do I know what it is? Nope. But I also don't know the microbiology and organic chemistry behind each Tylenol I take, either.

Remember also that ROS are not all bad. In fact, they are REQUIRED for certain normal body functions like thyroid hormone production and transcription. They're only bad when an overabundance of them cause damage to the cellular structure and/or cell signaling.

I tend to research everything to death. However, there comes a point where you have to determine if the potential benefit outweighs the potential detriment. For me, I know what I have put into my body thus far and- trust me- this is the absolute LEAST of my worries.

I have evaluated the risk/benefit for my self. Each person must do the same. Our own health lies squarely upon our own shoulders.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on the entire argument. Like I said, not worth arguing over, really. We can all make different choices and we don't have to answer to anyone about them.

 

[GeorgiaPeachie]

This is a good and solid discussion of the workings of a valuable means to heal our bodies. I don’t see it as an argument. We are all learning and passing observations and knowledge…so many people will learn from these interactions.

 

[DrHenley]

Concerns about chlorine dioxide part 1.
There is some unreacted sodium chlorite in the solution when you mix it with the acid (activator). Isn't sodium chlorite toxic?
Yes.

There are 2 (TWO) cases of medically significant sodium chlorite poisoning reported in medical literature. Both recovered but required medical intervention.
In one case a man accidentally drank a 28% sodium chlorite solution. He was using it to decontaminate fruit. He made up the solution in a cup, and later accidentally mixed up the cup of sodium chlorite solution with a cup of water and drank the solution.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3576492/
However, to be on the safe side, if you allow the chlorine dioxide to evaporate, and then the gas to go into solution in some distilled water, there will be no unreacted sodium chlorite.

The apparatus looks something like this. An airtight glass or ceramic container with a smaller glass or ceramic container inside (like a heavy shot glass) Fill the outer container with distilled water, mix up a small amount of solution in the inner container, seal, place in a dark place overnight, and voila! purified chlorine dioxide solution! Remove the inner container and discard the mixture (pour it down the sink, which will disinfect your drain!)
Keep it in the fridge until needed.

Get some chlorine dioxide test strips from Amazon to adjust the concentration (you want a maximum of about 40 ppm)
I would start with just a small amount of solution, test the outer container, and mix up more solution, let it sit overnight again. Repeat until you have the desired concentration.

To be on the safe side whenever you open the sealed container, do it under a vented range hood or do it outside.

 

[Proud Prepper]

Concerns about chlorine dioxide part 1.
There is some unreacted sodium chlorite in the solution when you mix it with the acid (activator). Isn't sodium chlorite toxic?
Yes.

There are 2 (TWO) cases of medically significant sodium chlorite poisoning reported in medical literature. Both recovered but required medical intervention.
In one case a man accidentally drank a 28% sodium chlorite solution. He was using it to decontaminate fruit. He made up the solution in a cup, and later accidentally mixed up the cup of sodium chlorite solution with a cup of water and drank the solution.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3576492/
However, to be on the safe side, if you allow the chlorine dioxide to evaporate, and then the gas to go into solution in some distilled water, there will be no unreacted sodium chlorite.

The apparatus looks something like this. An airtight glass or ceramic container with a smaller glass or ceramic container inside (like a heavy shot glass) Fill the outer container with distilled water, mix up a small amount of solution in the inner container, seal, place in a dark place overnight, and voila! purified chlorine dioxide solution! Remove the inner container and discard the mixture (pour it down the sink, which will disinfect your drain!)
Keep it in the fridge until needed.

Get some chlorine dioxide test strips from Amazon to adjust the concentration (you want a maximum of about 40 ppm)
I would start with just a small amount of solution, test the outer container, and mix up more solution, let it sit overnight again. Repeat until you have the desired concentration.

To be on the safe side whenever you open the sealed container, do it under a vented range hood or do it outside.

If it's made correctly, the gassed CD solution should be about 3000 ppm, which is beyond most test strips, instead test the dosage you made with 4 ounces of distilled water and it should test about 40 ppm. 20-60 ppm is fine and even a little less or more is ok, just increase/decrease the drops accordingly.

 

[DrHenley]

I prefer to make the final concentration in one step instead of making it stronger then diluting it down. Just simpler, and possibly safer that way. Anything to streamline and mitigate risks. My chemical engineering training you know...I can't help it...

 

[Proud Prepper]

I prefer to make the final concentration in one step instead of making it stronger then diluting it down. Just simpler.

I use a lot of it, so I make 1 liter bottles of the 3000 ppm, then dispense it to smaller 4 0z. Bottles to mix into whatever sizes we need. I have 12 different people using it at 3 different locations. I make a batch every 6-8 months.

 

[DrHenley]

Concerns about chlorine dioxide, part 2.

Isn't chlorine dioxide gas dangerous to work with?

I answer that question with my another question: Isn't chlorine gas dangerous to work with?

Yes and no...Depends on the concentration. Chlorine gas has been used as a chemical weapon. Yet, you are exposed to chlorine gas every time you go to the swimming pool, you can even smell it.

If you make it the way I do, then you are never exposed to dangerous levels of chlorine dioxide gas.

But to be safe, work with it under a vented range hood.

 

[DrHenley]

If it's made correctly, the gassed CD solution should be about 3000 ppm, which is beyond most test strips, instead test the dosage you made with 4 ounces of distilled water and it should test about 40 ppm. 20-60 ppm is fine and even a little less or more is ok, just increase/decrease the drops accordingly.

I just make for myself, and I would imagine most people here would only be making it for themselves and one or two others.
The stronger the solution, the more rapidly you lose chlorine dioxide gas to evaporation and degradation. By storing it in the final diluted concentration, it keeps longer.
I lost about 50% in a couple of weeks in an airtight container in the fridge when I kept it in a more concentrated solution.

 

[Proud Prepper]

I just make for myself, and I would imagine most people here would only be making it for themselves and one or two others.
The stronger the solution, the more rapidly you lose chlorine dioxide gas to evaporation and degradation. By storing it in the final diluted concentration, it keeps longer.
I lost about 50% in a couple of weeks in an airtight container in the fridge when I kept it in a more concentrated solution.

I don't know why you would lose that much.
I've kept it for about a year without degrading more than 20%.

I keep mine in 1 liter laboratory brown glass containers with airtight caps. I keep it in a refrigerator.

 

[DrHenley]

I don't know why you would lose that much.
I've kept it for about a year without degrading more than 20%.

I keep mine in 1 liter laboratory brown glass containers with airtight caps. I keep it in a refrigerator.

Same reason a bottle of Perrier loses fizz every time I open it.

Look, it that works for you, GREAT! But one size doesn't fit all.

 

[DrHenley]

Concerns about chlorine dioxide part 3.

While looking up references about how chlorine dioxide works and how it reacts with other chemicals, I came across this article. It doesn't talk about medicinal uses at all, other than disinfection of medical devices, just how it reacts and the mechanism of how it kills bacteria, viruses, and other pathogens. It explains why chlorine dioxide is a very selective free radical.
https://www.lenntech.com/processes/disinfection/chemical/disinfectants-chlorine-dioxide.htm

 

[MNwr786]

Concerns about chlorine dioxide part 3.

While looking up references about how chlorine dioxide works and how it reacts with other chemicals, I came across this article. It doesn't talk about medicinal uses at all, other than disinfection of medical devices, just how it reacts and the mechanism of how it kills bacteria, viruses, and other pathogens. It explains why chlorine dioxide is a very selective free radical.
https://www.lenntech.com/processes/disinfection/chemical/disinfectants-chlorine-dioxide.htm

I am not trying to start a fight, but I need to address a few things there.

You quote "Very selective" from that paper. Selective to what? Just living organisms and not organic contaminants and minerals? It seems to me that you skimmed that article and grabbed the first line that made the case for CD sound a little better while ignoring the rest, a trick we all have been seeing too much of lately.

How come you didn't quote the important parts of that paper, like how 5-15mg/L increases the mutagenity of water? 5-15mg/L represents .00007-.0002 mol/L, and with there being 55.5 moles of water in a liter, 5-15mg/L translates to 1-4 ppm. In other words, that article you linked to states that 1-4ppm is mutagenic.

What about the part directly under "How does it work" that says it directly reacts with the amino acids and RNA in living cells. Now that sounds promising! So does the part about it killing microorganisms, even the inactive ones, without any chance of them building up tolerance. It's not like our bodies use microorganisms beneficially in nearly every part of us from our skin to our stomachs, so just line me up a shot and let me join the club!

I don't care what people do with their bodies. The authors didn't expect any of it to be drank freshly prepared when writing that, they intended it to do its job killing stuff in drinking water before it is consumed at the tap. How long do you wait to drink water you add household bleach to? Just curious... Nothing about "part 3" makes me feel any safer drinking CD.

 

[Proud Prepper]

I am not trying to start a fight, but I need to address a few things there.

You quote "Very selective" from that paper. Selective to what? Just living organisms and not organic contaminants and minerals? It seems to me that you skimmed that article and grabbed the first line that made the case for CD sound a little better while ignoring the rest, a trick we all have been seeing too much of lately.

How come you didn't quote the important parts of that paper, like how 5-15mg/L increases the mutagenity of water? 5-15mg/L represents .00007-.0002 mol/L, and with there being 55.5 moles of water in a liter, 5-15mg/L translates to 1-4 ppm. In other words, that article you linked to states that 1-4ppm is mutagenic.

What about the part directly under "How does it work" that says it directly reacts with the amino acids and RNA in living cells. Now that sounds promising! So does the part about it killing microorganisms, even the inactive ones, without any chance of them building up tolerance. It's not like our bodies use microorganisms beneficially in nearly every part of us from our skin to our stomachs, so just line me up a shot and let me join the club!

I don't care what people do with their bodies. The authors didn't expect any of it to be drank freshly prepared when writing that, they intended it to do its job killing stuff in drinking water before it is consumed at the tap. How long do you wait to drink water you add household bleach to? Just curious... Nothing about "part 3" makes me feel any safer drinking CD.

Dont drink it! You are here to to fight, based on several of your previous statements. Most of your statements are false, based on biased assumptions. You obviously don't want to know anything about CDS if you believe it's household bleach. Please leave this thread! And don't drink CDS. I also recommend you get a Covid-19 vaccine booster as often as it's recommended by the CDC. So you can make sure your safe.

 

[DrHenley]

I am not trying to start a fight, but I need to address a few things there.

As I mentioned, that article does not talk about medicinal purposes one way or the other. The article was for background information only on some properties of chlorine dioxide and how chlorine dixoide works, not to prove anything about the medicinal value or safety (which the article DOES NOT ADDRESS)

For medicinal purposes, you are taking a much much smaller amount at higher concentration than if you are routinely drinking water treated with chlorine dioxide as a disinfectant, which is what the article was talking about.

You quote "Very selective" from that paper. Selective to what?

Chlorine dioxide as an oxidizer​

As an oxidizer chlorine dioxide is very selective. It has this ability due to unique one-electron exchange mechanisms. Chlorine dioxide attacks the electron-rich centers of organic molecules. One electron is transferred and chlorine dioxide is reduced to chlorite (ClO2- ).​

​

By comparing the oxidation strength and oxidation capacity of different disinfectants, one can conclude that chlorine dioxide is effective at low concentrations.​

​

Chlorine dioxide is not as reactive as ozone or chlorine and it only reacts with sulphuric substances, amines and some other reactive organic substances. In comparison to chlorine and ozone, less chlorine dioxide is required to obtain an active residual disinfectant. It can also be used when a large amount of organic matter is present.​

​

The oxidation strength describes how strongly an oxidizer reacts with an oxidizable substance. Ozone has the highest oxidation strength and reacts with every substance that can be oxidized. Chlorine dioxide is weak, it has a lower potential than hypochlorous acid or hypobromous acid.​

How come you didn't quote the important parts of that paper, like how 5-15mg/L increases the mutagenity of water?

I guess you missed the next two sentences. Because it is such an effective biocide, the organisms used to determine mutagenity die before they can complete the mutagenity tests.

It is difficult to prove the mutagenity of chlorine dioxide and chlorine dioxide byproducts, because the substances are biocides. Biocides usually kill the indicator organisms that are used to determine mutagenity.​

 

[MNwr786]

I guess you missed the next two sentences. Because it is such an effective biocide, the organisms used to determine mutagenity die before they can complete the mutagenity tests.

It is difficult to prove the mutagenity of chlorine dioxide and chlorine dioxide byproducts, because the substances are biocides. Biocides usually kill the indicator organisms that are used to determine mutagenity.​

It doesn't matter if the half life in the body is a fraction of a second (in fact, that makes me worry more). It clearly stated the emchanism of action on living cells and that mechanism sucks. You guys drink what you want lol.

Ain't trying to build bad blood on the forum here, just thought I'd share (what seems like) a legit concern. I do know that it won't kill anyone right away, so the critical data should be coming in within a couple decades. Generations to come will be thankful for all of your bravery in your medical expiramentation. Can't wait to see what happens long term for those who truly believe in it.

 

[Survivor_316]

I am not trying to start a fight, but I need to address a few things there.

You quote "Very selective" from that paper. Selective to what? Just living organisms and not organic contaminants and minerals? It seems to me that you skimmed that article and grabbed the first line that made the case for CD sound a little better while ignoring the rest, a trick we all have been seeing too much of lately.

How long do you wait to drink water you add household bleach to? Just curious... Nothing about "part 3" makes me feel any safer drinking CD.

I will say this- drinking water is bleached all the time. If you buy/sell a house with a well, it gets tested. If the tests come back unfavorable, that's actually how they take care of the microorganisms is by dumping bleach in it. Gross, but true.

I'm not saying that's an argument for this, but it's not really an argument against it, either.

 

[MNwr786]

I will say this- drinking water is bleached all the time. If you buy/sell a house with a well, it gets tested. If the tests come back unfavorable, that's actually how they take care of the microorganisms is by dumping bleach in it. Gross, but true.

I'm not saying that's an argument for this, but it's not really an argument against it, either.

The amounts of bleach used for water disinfection is usually based on approximate contamination levels and much of it decomposes before being consumed.

 

[MNwr786]

Fair question I think: Why is it that most CD advocates will reference bleaching residential water supplies as supporting evidence to safety when in all of those cases the chlorine content is heavily monitored and adjusted to ensure they only use enough to kill whats in the water? CD people drink that stuff FRESH, something you DO NOT SEE at water treatment facilities and in homes using city water. It is simply not the same situation.

Im not going to shock my well then pour a glass of water while it is pumping through the system and back down the well casing. That would be dumb and nobody does that, but the idea that people do so is somehow being pushed as evidence here as if it isn't obvios those two cases are significantly different.

"Part 3" already established that the mechanism of disinfection isn't even the same..

 

[Survivor_316]

Fair question I think: Why is it that most CD advocates will reference bleaching residential water supplies as supporting evidence to safety when in all of those cases the chlorine content is heavily monitored and adjusted to ensure they only use enough to kill whats in the water? CD people drink that stuff FRESH, something you DO NOT SEE at water treatment facilities and in homes using city water. It is simply not the same situation.

Im not going to shock my well then pour a glass of water while it is pumping through the system and back down the well casing. That would be dumb and nobody does that, but the idea that people do so is somehow being pushed as evidence here as if it isn't obvios those two cases are significantly different.

Not to mention that "part 3" already established that the mechanism of disinfection isn't even the same...

I literally just said it's not an argument for CD, but okay.

And not only that, you are the one who brought up bleach.

I'm done here.

 

[Proud Prepper]

Fair question I think: Why is it that most CD advocates will reference bleaching residential water supplies as supporting evidence to safety when in all of those cases the chlorine content is heavily monitored and adjusted to ensure they only use enough to kill whats in the water? CD people drink that stuff FRESH, something you DO NOT SEE at water treatment facilities and in homes using city water. It is simply not the same situation.

Im not going to shock my well then pour a glass of water while it is pumping through the system and back down the well casing. That would be dumb and nobody does that, but the idea that people do so is somehow being pushed as evidence here as if it isn't obvios those two cases are significantly different.

"Part 3" already established that the mechanism of disinfection isn't even the same..

Brent is that you?

 

[DrHenley]

Caveat: The link is to a product advertisement, so keep that in mind.
But I believe it has some good information about chlorine dioxide. At worst, it shows how one company is using chlorine dioxide in a product.

https://frontierpharm.com/pages/the-science-of-dioxicare

 

[DrHenley]

Chlorine dioxide is an existential threat to Big Pharma.