Cities after TSHTF

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That's OK, I get claustrophobic in the concrete jungles anyhow, so I stay away from them as much as possible.
 
Yeah me to, I'd rather chew my own arm off than go into a city, and it's getting worse, I even hate going into a town these days :) As I read somewhere the other day, I like people, just not crowds of them.
 
and just think.if that can happen with the newer buildings.how much more dangrese are the older ones?...
 
After shtf...bodies...waste....bullets would rain down from buildings.
 
I don't go into a city now never mind after SHTF, any town over 5,000 population makes me nervous.
 
By necessity, I often do (though usually, just driving through). My particular nearby city (Tampa) has especially tricky considerations as there are only so many decent through ways out of the city. (and most involve crossing a bridge).

Cities do have one thing I really like though...good eats.
 
Likewise Dannny, Over on the UK forums and E mail groups we have often discussed returning to cities on salvage operations. It got so interesting some UK preppers went over and visited on URBAN EXPLORATION FORUMS, they shared with us loads of advice on kit, tips, safety issues etc.

Its pretty clear that a POST PA city is going to be quite dangerous after a couple of years, risks include

Toxic Waste leaking from corroded pipes and vessels
Asbestos and glass fibre insulation being exposed to the atmosphere.
Unburied dead
Feral animals
Rabies
Rats and Weils Disease
Falling masonry / tiles / slates/ guttering / antenna / power cables/ windows etc
Residents with hostile intentions
Displaced glass cladding from sky scrapers
Corroded metalwork breaking free
Eroded or undercut pavements etc collapsing into cellars, sink holes. old tube or tunnels etc
Falling tree limbs
Displaced paving
Collapsing damaged or decayed buildings etc
Exposed cables / hawsers / rebar and other trip hazards

Some of the Urbex chaps recommend

Hard Hats like rock climbers use
Climbing gear and ropes for entering and exiting tower blocks and sub terr structures
Head mounted AND hand held flashlights / spare batteries
Prybars, Hatchets, Bolt Cutters etc
Marker paint aerosols
Disinfectant
Two way Radios
Comprehensive FAKs
The best and most recent maps of roads / utilities routes / tube and rail lines
Prearranged emergency RV locations
Personal water filters
Eye protection
Mouth / Nose filter protection ( some also favour knee protectors as well)
Quality work gloves etc

They advise looking up and down as well as front / left and right when moving on foot.

Not a comprehensive list of stuff but useful items none the less.
 
cities post SHTF will be full of the dead, the dying, and rife with disease, best to be avoided. post SHTF I don't want to be far from my home/base/ BOL.
 
In the IMMEDIATE aftermath I totally agree with you but at some point further down the line some folks MAY have to venture back in to salvage essential gear.
 
sorry don't agree, by the time its further down the line i'll learn to do without anything that just MIGHT be lying around in a wrecked/ruined city, its just not worth the risk and I'm not leaving my wife alone for hours/maybe days at a time. I'm going for a simple basic post SHTF lifestyle.
 
Mate it is not about you personally, yes you may be happy living your chosen way and lifestyle but other may not have that operation, I know for example that I and a few others at some pound are going to have to round up extra gas bottles or hit DIY centres for replacement hand tools and material, look at the bigger picture. the posts are generic not specific.
 
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sorry mush, I didn't mean it to sound so personal, but I don't think cities "down the line" are worth the risk for a few gas bottles or some odd tools, cities will be full of the dead and the dying, probably rife with disease and anyone still living there will be feral in nature, most places will have already have been hit long before you get there, either trashed or burnt to the ground or both, anyway I thought most people had wood burners these days and you can pick up cheap tools in car boots and markets. I don't think its worth the risk for something that just MIGHT or might NOT still be there. if you KNOW for certain its there it might-just might- be worth a quick dash in and get the hell out again, but on the offchance? something might? just be there, I think that's asking for trouble, unless of course its "last man standing" and your the only human left alive? nope, cos that will be ME!!!!!!!!!:tank:
 
seems like a idea to scout out "places to shop" before and when something hits the fan do a mad dash,get your things and an equally mad dash out of harms way...
it might be good to do it straight away when most people are still in the state of shock and unable to comprehend what's going on...
 
now that makes sense, do it as the sheeple are reeling from the shock, however that soon ROL may still be in force, in which case you'll be buying what you need rather than scavenging.
 
Yup over on SUK many of us developed a list of useful recoverable materials and where they are stored for easy access after THTF.

This snippet is an extract from the little basic prepping guide E booklet I write for free distribution.



MAPPING & ROUTE PLANNING




When preparing to move to a RETREAT or even on EXPEDITION TRAINING you must make careful notes of certain important factors in planning your journey, Also when in location at your base or retreat you need to record for future use some vital information.

Listed below are some of the most important items that should be included on your maps.



1 Primary access route to and from your home or retreat

2 Secondary / alternative routes to your destination

3 Escape paths and alternate routes along your route to avoid hazards/ambushes/checkpoints/bad weather etc. etc.

4 Water and possible food supplies /and pre-arranged caches along your routes.

5 Water supplies around your retreat are they likely to remain that way are they pure? (Potable).

6 Escape routes from the retreat in case of extreme weather or overwhelming opposition

7 Natural hazards, bogs, rivers, marshland, large forests, old mine workings, rock faces etc.

8 Manmade hazards, bomb sites, fallout zones, mine fields, militarised zones, refugee camps, check points, known patrol routes, telecoms sites, (TELECOMS SITES =communication sites EG radio masts, communications/radio / microwave relay towers and broadcasting masts, telecommunications facilities, military network communications masts, broadcasting stations both civil/military and commercial etc. etc.)

9 Towns with populations exceeding available resources for self-reliance, etc

10 Strategic targets, Bridges, factories, refineries, garrisons, police stations, airports, chemical and steel plants, reservoirs, road and rail junctions, marshalling yards, power stations, etc.

11 Climatic hazards depending on time of year

12 Thugs, police, military both foreign and domestic, paramilitaries, refugees, renegades, looters

13 Allies, Red Cross, civil defence groups, other survival groups that are friendly.



Resources = Food stores, supermarkets, fuel dumps, grain stores, petrol stations and POL dumps, (Pol dumps = Petrol Oil and Lubricating dumps = fuel storage and distribution facilities, civil and military, petrol stations, oil storage facilities, refineries and crackers, wagon depots, rail refuelling depots, gas storage and distribution facilities, methane generator facilities (pig farms and ground fill sites), camping gas suppliers, butane / propane/map gas (Calor, Gaz, Coleman,Taymar etc)



Water supplies, tool stores, gun and sports shops, armouries, builders merchants, isolated shelters, farms, caves, tunnels, underpasses, fish farms, rivers and streams, colonies of cattle / small and large game etc.



A warning about Supplies.



Do ensure that when you approach sources of supplies that they are not already under someone else’s control, do not take unnecessary risks if necessary go elsewhere or try again another day.

Avoid confrontation and unnecessary contact until things get as normal as possible, be prepared to barter for supplies. It may be very prudent to simply OBSERVE the target for 24 hours before moving in to see if the place is occupied.






RECORDING USEFUL RESOURCES


Identify and keep records of any useful resources that may be useful to your group or family after the disaster.


Some materials like coal or building materials can frequently be left in place and they are unlikely to come to any harm, unless of course such materials are going to be in short supply.


Identify the following in your area


Recoverable sources of Firewood, Coal & Coke, Peat, Heating and fuel oil, Bottled Gas (butane and propane). Check coal yards, railway sidings, gas bottled refilling centers etc.

Petroleum Products, Petrol, Diesel, Avgas, Paraffin (Kerosene), Hypoid, Lubricants.

(Most petroleum products will need treating with preservatives) Petrol stations, refineries, transport depots.

Building materials, lumber, bricks, cement, and aggregates etc. Builder’s yards, DIY centers, quarries, building sites etc

Water Supplies, Tanks, ponds, reservoirs, streams, wells (including capped ones) artesian and aquifer supplies,

Water filtration and purification equipment and stockists

Identify locations of fast flowing or fast falling water that could be used to turn generators, mills, etc.

Food stores, supermarkets, distribution centers, regional warehouses, grain stores, etc

Free range herds of cattle, sheep, chickens, deer etc

Rabbit farms, Rabbit warrens, Fish farms, angling clubs.

Tool stores, engineering suppliers, plant hire agencies, camping, caravanning and outdoor stores, sports shops, gun shops, gun smiths, boat yards, marinas, ships chandlers preserved railways etc


Remote housing that is conducive to self-reliance, IE has things like functioning large chimneys and fire places, ultra insulated, double/ triple glazed, multi-fuel heating and cooking facilities, has a well or other clean water supply, solar panels, wind turbines, methane digesters, local supplies of fuel, defendable etc other facilities like outdoor residential centers, outward bound centers, alternative technology centers, camping hostels, retreats etc are worth considering.


Check out footpaths, bridle ways, navigable water ways, rail lines, broadcasting masts, radio masts, wind farms, etc.


Please remember that in survival INFORMATION is not only power, but a lifesaver as well.
 
there's also whats above your head..not only what's in the tree's,(if anything)..but what the military has access to as well.like the satellites orbiting earth.and drones..these things can be used to their advantage.then there's the highways that serve as the main arteries through each state..the government and military alike will want control of them.especially where they pass through towns and cities..there's 1 state highway,and 1 u.s. highway that are where i live.in which 1 is a 1/2 mile from me.in which i see large equiepment like pumps as well as other things for factorys on that road almost every time i go to town and go back home..so makeing sure that your away from such routes is better then being a 1/2 from one
 
this sort of subject has always intrigued me, not just stuff in cities but "resources" in general. now if a FAST collapse-less survivors then plenty of stuff left lying about, but if its a SLOW collapse/domino effect- more likely i think-lots of survivors then less stuff lying about, I don't care who anyone is, old or young, there is no way we can store everything we need for the rest of our lives, at some point we run out and there is no more left lying around.....what then? go back to the stone age? that may come if following generations haven't got access to the raw materials, and they probably wont because it all been mined out before. or do you learn to live a different lifestyle where a lot of this stuff is not needed? I believe we will go back to a pre industrial lifestyle, agricultural based, self sufficiency/ subsistence type farming.
 
that's true,more survivors means less resources and more competition about them.
atleast I don't have capacity to store for 30+ years, so something like a combination of hunting+gathering +farming would be the choice
 
yes, that's my point, we may be able to scavenge enough for another year or two but eventually it will get used up, broken or whatever, then there is no more, what you gonna do then? if we rely on "resources" to get by then we are stuffed, but if we learn a different lifestyle-one that dosent need so many resources then we can adapt and go forward. modern life is based on consumerism, stuff is made for us to use, it breaks or wears out so we have to buy more, somewhere we have to break this chain, SHTF will do this for us.if we don't learn to adapt we will go under.
 
i'll be able to hunt at first..but hunting is out of the question for me here after that..but thats only because there's way to many ppl within 1 mile of me..i'll also need to hunt quietly as well.and thats why i got me a bow in a yard sale the other day.now i just need to get arrows for it.then start practicing with it..snares and traps will be needed as well.
 
I'm not so sure of the numbers post SHTF, there will be a large die off of the unprepared and the unwilling, starvation, disease, suicide and just stupid accidents will whittle the numbers down, within 6 months(a year at most) the population will be decimated, most will not be able to adapt and will go the way of the do-do and the dinosaur.
 
I imagine that post SHTF, there will be individuals who make their living doing scavenger runs into cities. They'll then trade the things they find, that can't be had anywhere else, for meals, lodging, water, medical services, etc. from different survivors that live rurally.
 
I wish them luck with that, they might make it in but who knows who or what is waiting for them when they get there? getting out again will be another problem. anyone watch "survivors" look at the trouble they got into going into the city!!!!
 
Where I live it isn't a city luckily however most homes are 100% electric around here, if the grid goes they will all be leaving, that much I am pretty sure of. It wont end well if they all leave however I will then have plenty of peace and quiet and can hunt all I want. I figure I will bug in rather then bug out. As long as we sit and be quiet they will all leave, and no worries.
 
this sort of subject has always intrigued me, not just stuff in cities but "resources" in general. now if a FAST collapse-less survivors then plenty of stuff left lying about, but if its a SLOW collapse/domino effect- more likely i think-lots of survivors then less stuff lying about, I don't care who anyone is, old or young, there is no way we can store everything we need for the rest of our lives, at some point we run out and there is no more left lying around.....what then? go back to the stone age? that may come if following generations haven't got access to the raw materials, and they probably wont because it all been mined out before. or do you learn to live a different lifestyle where a lot of this stuff is not needed? I believe we will go back to a pre industrial lifestyle, agricultural based, self sufficiency/ subsistence type farming.
I agree with a pre industrial lifestyle being the norm again. I am slowly trying to get things to help make life easier after electricity. Antique stores would have everyday items we would rely on again, from hand crank meat grinder, candleholders, hand tools etc. I hope I never see the day without the grid, but I think planning for it to be a real possibility is wise.
 
wife and I have both lived without electricity, we only have had electricity in houses in the UK for about 80 years so its really not that big a deal, its whether people can adapt. as far as tools and other non electric stuff goes I am on the lookout for this on a permanent basis, car boots, markets, (yard sales in the US), its surprising what you can pick up.
 
I've been collecting hand tools for some time, I live in the bush so no garage sales so I trawl eBay.

What pisses me off is that I (and my Dad) had most of these tools years ago, but I chucked them in favour of nice new electric tools :)
 

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