Emergency Food Supply (freeze dried goods)

[Maverick]

As part of my food preps I have a 30 day supply of Augason Farms (ultimate 4-person 72hr kit) for two people that would be 5 buckets for 30 days

It takes 10.75 gal of water per bucket, that's 1.8 gal of water per day for two people, making it additional 53.75 gal needed for 30 days

We should store 1 gal of water per person per day for how many days you plan for, taking this food in account, that would be 3.8 gal of water per day for two people.

Make one wonder how many people have stored the 1gal requirement of water and purchased freeze dried goods as the sole emergency food source? how many accounted for the additional water needed?

I have read where people have a year supply of freeze dried goods, this makes me wonder if the water supply calculations included freeze dried goods?

 

[Silent Bob]

As part of my food preps I have a 30 day supply of Augason Farms (ultimate 4-person 72hr kit) for two people that would be 5 buckets for 30 days

It takes 10.75 gal of water per bucket, that's 1.8 gal of water per day for two people, making it additional 53.75 gal needed for 30 days

We should store 1 gal of water per person per day for how many days you plan for, taking this food in account, that would be 3.8 gal of water per day for two people.

Make one wonder how many people have stored the 1gal requirement of water and purchased freeze dried goods as the sole emergency food source? how many accounted for the additional water needed?

I have read where people have a year supply of freeze dried goods, this makes me wonder if the water supply calculations included freeze dried goods?

Maverick, for me, I have a food calculator that allows me to calculate my water needs for the dehydrated food. Yes, I've got a mixture of dehydrated #10 can, dehydrated packets (mixture of Mountain House and Wise packs (mostly for Bugout/Long-Range patrol), MRE, Tray Packs, and store bought canned/dried foods. Short of growing and animal husbandry resources which are on my agenda...I think I've covered most of the bases of what is available for the consumers...short of gaining access to a food processing site...which I have a list/map of all known processing plants in my area and also have a good list of federal inspected plants across the U.S. That is if I get really desperate for food sources.

One area that I've not been able to research and is not readily available without contacting each states Fish and Game is a wildlife population grid. I know each state does them, but rarely do you see them published as one huge national report. I've found some good maps of white-tail, moose, and elk populations presented by the state of Georgia. Interesting data if your a hunter and want a good handle on population grid size during SHTF. I've found a few algorithms on density populations after the SHTF and it would seem that if we don't consider initiating some-type of enforcement right after the SHTF their will not be much of a population left. Just my thoughts, I know people will be desperate, but we might have to take one out of the King James rule book on hunting on protected lands. Of course, I know many will argue with this theory of enforcement, but if you deplete the food stock...then what is left to carry on for the next generation? Certainly, we would be writing our own extinction if we don't do something.

 

[QuietH3art]

Does anyone know if any of those freeze dried food places actually use non-gmo, organic foods in producing their freeze-dried product? I know if it's between eat and starve, we'll eat whatever is available, but if there's a choice, I'd rather stock up on the healthier choice.

 

[Dani]

Does anyone know if any of those freeze dried food places actually use non-gmo, organic foods in producing their freeze-dried product? I know if it's between eat and starve, we'll eat whatever is available, but if there's a choice, I'd rather stock up on the healthier choice.

If you would like to learn how to make your own dehydrated meals check out http://www.backpackingchef.com/. Lots of good recipes and they are all made from natural items. I know it's not freeze-dried, but that is not something I can safely do at home. . . at least yet, maybe one day. I have just gotten into dehydrating the last couple years since it doesn't take up that much space compared to canning and weighs a lot less, so great for a GHB (is that right? Get Home Bag. . . whatever the lingo is?) and ran across his website. A lot cheaper too on a tight budget.

 

[QuietH3art]

I just recently downloaded an ebook on how to dehydrate in your oven instead of buying a dehydrator. I don't have a vacuum packing gadget and I have limited freezer space.
That backpacking chef does have some good tips on dehydrating, but for long-term storage it's just not going to work. Still looking for all natural freeze-dried foods.

 

[Silent Bob]

Does anyone know if any of those freeze dried food places actually use non-gmo, organic foods in producing their freeze-dried product? I know if it's between eat and starve, we'll eat whatever is available, but if there's a choice, I'd rather stock up on the healthier choice.

Quiet,,,,or LW (sorry been out on vacation, is that you?).

Legacy Food apparently states their stuff if GMO free, but like all food companies, they might be stating only their vegetable-fruit and gluten free products since the FDA has been trying to regulate more the Gluten Free food producers. Sure if you do an inquiry with the company they can tell you more and some will send you samples if you write them a nice letter and possibly give them feedback. I've done that a few time with products or they give you a discount on the next purchase.

I know that Wise and Mountain Home don't advertise their foods as being GMO free because of some of their stuff is GMO...sorta hard to track what is what...as one company rep told me at a Prepper Fair in Dallas that I attended

 

[jontte]

uuups, didn't even occur in my blond mind the additional water needed, would guess you'd have to think this with regular dried foodstuff aswell..
there seems to a catch here and there to remember..

 

[Silent Bob]

uuups, didn't even occur in my blond mind the additional water needed, would guess you'd have to think this with regular dried foodstuff aswell..
there seems to a catch here and there to remember..

Jontte,

In the early 80's, Nattick Laboratories recommended a dehydrated sausage patty, actually more in the shape of a brick. It was a solid piece of reconstituted sausage that all you had to do was add water. For me, not only inspecting it, I used them on patrol ops, they were pretty lightweight, stripped all the essentials from the primary container and placed them in the BDU pant pocket, typically, I could fit about 4 days worth of them in one cargo packet. In exchange for all the wet pack MRE's, I'd add a few socks, another t-shirt-underware and some other what I call necessities.

My main point in responding was the sausage if ate dry and with a canteen of water would not only fill you up, but force you to hydrate. Of course, its like a big balloon going into the tummy, lol, for me, I was good for at least 12-24 hours before my next meal. When I needed a snack, I typically went to the old granola bar, now we have those energy bars...but the concept is the same. Then in the mid 90's, based on feedback, this venerable MRE line item was removed from the MRE menu's. You know have a wet pack Sausage MRE, but its not the same and adds weight to your pack. Not only were they great for long range patrol, but they were very durable in BOB kits that were left in very hot environments, the lower the water ratio in the ration, the less chance for degradation.

Overall, as I've always recommended a mixture of dehydrated, MRE's, store bought and if you can find them Tray Packs (T-rations). They can feed up to about 30 people in one meal. Now a days if your lucky you can find only breakfast meals, sausage, but they are the real deal. They have a shorter shelf life than MRE's and dehydrated, but are very tasty...and if you had to use them after their expiration date, a great meal for a large gathering on a camping trip. Cost prohibitive in shipping.

 

[jontte]

Silent Bob,
yet a thank you to you, now have something to look after from wounderful world of www....
this some information you don't usually find from the web while doing random browsing and getting info from someone that has used it is even better...
that point of "forced" rehydration is great, as I have to remind some of my work collegues to rehydrate when it's hot, somehow they forget it

 

[QuietH3art]

Quiet,,,,or LW (sorry been out on vacation, is that you?).

Legacy Food apparently states their stuff if GMO free, but like all food companies, they might be stating only their vegetable-fruit and gluten free products since the FDA has been trying to regulate more the Gluten Free food producers. Sure if you do an inquiry with the company they can tell you more and some will send you samples if you write them a nice letter and possibly give them feedback. I've done that a few time with products or they give you a discount on the next purchase.

I know that Wise and Mountain Home don't advertise their foods as being GMO free because of some of their stuff is GMO...sorta hard to track what is what...as one company rep told me at a Prepper Fair in Dallas that I attended

Yes, Bob, I am the rockstar formerly known as LW
I will check out Legacy Food. From all that I am reading and doing, I think I'm going to have to do a lot of dehydrating of my own veggies. I have found that the dehydrated fruit that I purchased in the past does not rehydrate well. So, I am trying different things a little bit at a time. I may order a few things from Legacy if I can see their ingredients list before ordering. For the most part, I do know what to avoid - when something has a scientific name meant to confound the customer, I usually know what it really is.
The link that Danil54grl posted gave me some good ideas. I don't think I'll have much "long-term" food storage but rather a means to grow my own food, even if that means I have to live on sprouts for awhile. Sprouted veggies are much better for you than the full grown version, but they do require a lot of seeds. However, seeds are going to be a lot easier to travel with than canned foods in jars.
It's a constant process for me. After spending a day making cheese and bread that turned out okay but not exciting, I've been rethinking the future of my diet and how much effort I'll be able to put into both the preservation as well as preparation of foods.

 

[Silent Bob]

Silent Bob,
yet a thank you to you, now have something to look after from wounderful world of www....
this some information you don't usually find from the web while doing random browsing and getting info from someone that has used it is even better...
that point of "forced" rehydration is great, as I have to remind some of my work collegues to rehydrate when it's hot, somehow they forget it

Well I have a little experience with the T-packs...first, from an operational experience, they were just so much better than an MRE. We were feeding a good size amount of people in the field, so the Army, just basically dumps them in a steel garbage can with a diesel heater that bring the water to a boil. The Mess guys had an apparatus to fish them out as one big whole...I didn't care in Korea, because anything hot, that included hot coffee and hot chocolate to warm my ass off in the middle of winter was okay with me.

I actually had to use them on a MedCAP to Tunisia in 99, we had a mixture of Air Force and Navy medics teaching the Tunisian Army our capabilities and donated a small Air Transportable Clinic to them, complete back in those days a state of the art Telemetric radiological Xray machine...more like a sonogram, but we could use satellites to give diagnois. Anyway, since I had field experience with feeding and we were not taking support folks that could feed us, it was MRE's and T-rations. I got about 10 days worth of Tray packs for breakfast and dinner. Dinner ones were okay, but they didn't have much of a variety on the breakfast. Needless to say...I had a group of whinny nurses and health nuts, who wanted cereal, milk, croissants, you name it. We were restricted to the base and couldn't get out of the wire...since relations with the Tunisian's was a just building up...that was before the Tunisian revolution. So yes, the T-rations are good. If you can score the bacon T-ration, scoop them up, they are just like the real McCoy. I get them in smaller cans...who doesn't love bacon...a good BLT on a hard bread....yum.

 

[jontte]

croissants in the field??? why not champagne and kaviar to lunch
still remember the taste of some of the stews they made to us when in manouvers, it was ok when you garlic there, othervise,well it kept the hunger at bay

 

[Silent Bob]

Yes, Bob, I am the rockstar formerly known as LW
I will check out Legacy Food. From all that I am reading and doing, I think I'm going to have to do a lot of dehydrating of my own veggies. I have found that the dehydrated fruit that I purchased in the past does not rehydrate well. So, I am trying different things a little bit at a time. I may order a few things from Legacy if I can see their ingredients list before ordering. For the most part, I do know what to avoid - when something has a scientific name meant to confound the customer, I usually know what it really is.
The link that Danil54grl posted gave me some good ideas. I don't think I'll have much "long-term" food storage but rather a means to grow my own food, even if that means I have to live on sprouts for awhile. Sprouted veggies are much better for you than the full grown version, but they do require a lot of seeds. However, seeds are going to be a lot easier to travel with than canned foods in jars.
It's a constant process for me. After spending a day making cheese and bread that turned out okay but not exciting, I've been rethinking the future of my diet and how much effort I'll be able to put into both the preservation as well as preparation of foods.

Hello my Rock Star Diva! Thought that was you in the Avatar...been a while because of the vacation. Lol, but I did enjoy my Pooh ride at Disney...me the bear with little brain. I won't say how much I spent on the vacation, but the family made the mistake of leaving me alone in Arabbas Glass and Disney Art Store in Magic Kingdom and with a grand in cash in hand, I walked out with some very nice pieces of art. Yes, got a nice Pooh with Pigglet. Actually other than Prepping, gun buying, Disney is my only other sin that my wife can complain about.

Like I said, don't know much about Legacy Foods...you asked non-GMO, which I know your concerned about....I just don't have enough hard data on their products or quality. If you do, purchase, send me a PM and let me know what you think. I can add it to my growing database of companies and feedback on product. I've got some great data on Mountain House, Wise foods and many of the MRE companies since I've bought from them and tested most of their products either while I was in the military or as a prepper.

As for the hydration of fruit. What went wrong that you didn't like about. Also two things affect reconstitution...the fruit itself, some simply don't hydrate well and require a little more experimenting and over time in storage, the taste starts to tend to be off. I use some fruit fresh that comes in a shaker to help it out. Also I use most of it in baking and fruit salads to augment fresh fruit and make a fruit salad or fruit pizza. Of course, I think Danil54grl has me sold on doing some canning this fall. I have to PM her, she is so good at this stuff. Big issue for me, is storage, I live in a big house, but doesn't have large closets for storage.

I think its a constant process for us all. Take care..good hearing from you.

 

[Silent Bob]

croissants in the field??? why not champagne and kaviar to lunch
still remember the taste of some of the stews they made to us when in manouvers, it was ok when you garlic there, othervise,well it kept the hunger at bay

Everything is good with garlic. I have this bad thing for cucumber kimshee that I picked up in Korea ate it with Bagogi and rice...sometime when their was no beef, then Kagogi...

Yeah, a few of the nurses and doctors had never been in the real field...that all changed in 2001, but back then, the deployment club was pretty exclusive...only a few had actually even deployed to the First Gulf War and most of the Air Force folks had things catered to them from state-side vendors. In fact the largest dinning facitity in the Gulf War was near King Fahd airport. That is why the Air Force got such a bad rap from the other services.

 

[jontte]

any experience about French combat rations??
seems very French with calamari and all...kimchi...spicy Korean stuff,never tried

that's why you must send people to experience the field...

 

[Silent Bob]

any experience about French combat rations??
seems very French with calamari and all...kimchi...spicy Korean stuff,never tried

that's why you must send people to experience the field...

Part being Asian, I've experienced the good and the bad. Not fond of any of the Vietnamese foods,...especially any of their fermented fish sauces that they seem to cook a lot. Chinese Dim-sum is pretty good, just need to know what ones are what, they have so many dim-sums that you literally need a playbook.

Yeah, kimchee can clear the sinus out with all the garlic in it. A neighbor behind me is full Korean, she's married to an old Air Force vet. Prior to all the development in the neighborhood, she would literally pluck the mustard greens that grown in the fields behind our development. She told me she would chop it up and add garlic with nappa cabbage, nothing gets thrown away on the Korean peninsula...a very harsh growing season there. You wonder why the North Korean's are starving up there...its because of the land and lack of applied food technology...better to build the Korean missile before letting their people live. Anyway, the stuff she made was just out of this world. Even though, I do love my cucumber kimshee with a good bowl of white Japanese rice. Okay, that is where I draw the line....I actually have about 400 pounds of Japanese rice stored away. I still need to store about another 600 pounds, but the Nigishi brand is very expensive. Now that my son experimented and loved sashimi, he's been bugging me about teaching him how to make sushi. I can make it, but I don't eat it. I guess he found something that he loved about being Japanese, which is good because he's not been very excited about his heritage. So who knows. kids right.

Well I'd better get back on topic, didn't mean to hijack the thread here....sorry Maverick.

 

[Gazrok]

Shouldn't rely on stored water alone. Will need a replenish able supply or you are sunk .

 

[QuietH3art]

Shouldn't rely on stored water alone. Will need a replenish able supply or you are sunk .

That's the second reason I'll have no choice but to bug out. I can only store so much water and there is nowhere nearby to replenish. I also cannot put in a well here.

 

[psalm 7]

Couple of months of what you use everyday , then extra can goods with stuff you may not use everyday like SPAM DAK ham as well as slim jims and such if you find on sale , then totes or closet of MRE'S Wise foods and others , then longer term like bags of shell corn and wheat oats sealed in mylar stored in totes or buckets . For the later you need a corona grinder or similar . The KS disk I mentioned on the reasorses thread under info has a class on how to use and how to prepare the whole grains and grinder . But most of all you need homesteading skills to resuply and natural water sorce . I'm not skilled in urban survival but if you could not bug out imeadiatly and were trapped there I think you need enough supplys to hold out and enough security and keep a low profile to survive until the crowds thin and you can get out with a bug out location and communications to it .

 

[Gazrok]

Other good mylar and bucket ideas:

Rice, Dry Pasta, Mashed Potato flakes, Cereals, Dry Peas/Beans, Flour, Sugar, Evaporated Milk, Powdered Butter, Powdered Cheese, Salt

Note, you don't always use O2 absorbers (ex: using them in a bucket of sugar will result in one big block of sugar!)

 

[QuietH3art]

I honestly think that the freeze-dried foods are probably a huge waste of money unless you are eating them right now. They might keep 20 years but I probably won't. After much thought, I don't think its wise to keep more than about a 2 year supply of food as well as a large variety of seed. Just about anything store bought that I would eat can be kept that long. Anything I can from my garden will keep at least that long. Keep a large variety of seed and a knowledge of how to grow them. That is going to be key to survival. Freeze dried, packaged and canned goods lose a lot of their nutritive value in processing and then more as time passes.
The only use I can see for the 20 year foods is in the case of nuclear war and then it really isn't going to matter long-term because nothing is going to grow to replace that once it's gone. Personally, I just don't think I want to live through something like that.

 

[Maverick]

I honestly think that the freeze-dried foods are probably a huge waste of money unless you are eating them right now. They might keep 20 years but I probably won't. After much thought, I don't think its wise to keep more than about a 2 year supply of food as well as a large variety of seed. Just about anything store bought that I would eat can be kept that long. Anything I can from my garden will keep at least that long. Keep a large variety of seed and a knowledge of how to grow them. That is going to be key to survival. Freeze dried, packaged and canned goods lose a lot of their nutritive value in processing and then more as time passes.
The only use I can see for the 20 year foods is in the case of nuclear war and then it really isn't going to matter long-term because nothing is going to grow to replace that once it's gone. Personally, I just don't think I want to live through something like that.

Agree, It's why I only keep a 30day supply freeze dry most everything else is from the garden though I have over 300lbs of beans bucket sealed (pinto/lentils/split pea) 3gal honey 5gal sugar 12gal kosher salt (for table salt and can be ground finer for canning salt) 10gal of black/green tea, I have instant coffee put away since it last substantially longer then normal coffee, everything I have is shelf stable and nutritional ok, maybe the instant coffee isn't nutritional but if sanity is healthy then instant coffee is nutritional

 

[QuietH3art]

Agree, It's why I only keep a 30day supply freeze dry most everything else is from the garden though I have over 300lbs of beans bucket sealed (pinto/lentils/split pea) 3gal honey 5gal sugar 12gal kosher salt (for table salt and can be ground finer for canning salt) 10gal of black/green tea, I have instant coffee put away since it last substantially longer then normal coffee, everything I have is shelf stable and nutritional ok, maybe the instant coffee isn't nutritional but if sanity is healthy then instant coffee is nutritional

I have a lot of packages of beans, but they are still in the packages. I use them often and rotate. Same with everything I have. It's all lined up so I can take from the front and add to the back.

 

[QuietH3art]

By the way, yesterday was it for me. A lot of the things that I use were on sale and I bought so much that I have no more room. I'm not allowed to shop for awhile unless I can get really creative and I'm not feeling creative today after rescuing my willow trees from the goats and moving my younger chicks to a pen around the willow tree so the bigger chickens can get used to them without being able to attack them.

 

[Gazrok]

The only use I can see for the 20 year foods is in the case of nuclear war and then it really isn't going to matter long-term because nothing is going to grow to replace that once it's gone. Personally, I just don't think I want to live through something like that.

I think most folks would be surprised at just how much area would be relatively untouched by nuclear war. Growing up in the Cold War, we were bombarded with the idea that nuclear war would completely wipe out our species. Looking at the current number of nukes, their yields, targets, etc., I just can't see that happening.

Same goes for how long nuclear winter would last, how long soil would be bad, etc. even in attacked areas. A lot was based on guesswork, and subsequent results in bombed areas have proven all the estimates were way too pessimistic.

 

[QuietH3art]

I think most folks would be surprised at just how much area would be relatively untouched by nuclear war. Growing up in the Cold War, we were bombarded with the idea that nuclear war would completely wipe out our species. Looking at the current number of nukes, their yields, targets, etc., I just can't see that happening.

Same goes for how long nuclear winter would last, how long soil would be bad, etc. even in attacked areas. A lot was based on guesswork, and subsequent results in bombed areas have proven all the estimates were way too pessimistic.

Ah, but I live less than 10 miles from the center of Camp Lejeune Marine Base. If there's a nuclear attack, I'll be gone immediately anyway.

 

[Gazrok]

Not near as many nukes as there were...so not sure a training base would be high on the priority list. Airbases, missile sites, and naval facilities would be bigger targets than Camp Lajeune.

 

[Maverick]

A good read, the maps pretty much shows the effects of fallout

http://www.americanscientist.org/issues/issue.aspx?y=0&content=true&id=982&css=print&page=6

 

[Gazrok]

Interesting. Not saying it will all be fine...just that an actual nuclear war now (as opposed to 30 years ago) will be much less damaging than we were all made to believe while growing up. Not to say that cancers won't increase, etc., but it just seems that a nuclear war is survivable given the right locations, and the right measures. Forget duck and cover, get inside some concrete, or with a lot of dirt between you and the radiation.

 

[Maverick]

Interesting. Not saying it will all be fine...just that an actual nuclear war now (as opposed to 30 years ago) will be much less damaging than we were all made to believe while growing up. Not to say that cancers won't increase, etc., but it just seems that a nuclear war is survivable given the right locations, and the right measures. Forget duck and cover, get inside some concrete, or with a lot of dirt between you and the radiation.

I certainly hope I'm vacationing in falklands if it ever comes to a nuke war