EMP Attack by Terrorists or Smaller Nations

[Billy Roper]

In all likelihood if W.W. III starts in 2017, it also will end in 2017, or at lease will rather quickly devolve into smaller scale and localized conflicts as spin-offs of the precipitating global conflict. Many people consider the Chinese or the Russians as our potential adversaries in the next global war, forgetting that a dozen other countries also have the capability of literally knocking the United States back to the nineteenth century, creating societal collapse, economic depression, and political civil war through the use of just two or three high altitude bursts of nuclear weapons which would create an Electro-Magnetic Pulse and fry most of the electronic circuitry in the U.S.. Modern automobiles, airplanes, trains, trucks, computers, cell phones, and electric power grids would go down, and stay down. Imagine what would happen if the lights went off and stayed off, and food and fuel deliveries ceased nationwide?

India, Pakistan, Israel, and North Korea all have nuclear weapons, along with the U.S., Russia, China, the U.K., and France. Those are the ones we know of. A third party state or a terrorist organization could use such an attack to trigger a conflict between one of the major powers, in fact. So, you don’t just have to worry about the guys in the Kremlin or Beijing, you have to worry about anybody who can fly a plane with a bomb on board high enough to get their 72 virgins. A corporate jet, which is large enough to carry an atomic bomb of any size, can reach a flying height of 50,000 feet. That’s about 9 1/2 miles. That same small corporate jet could easily reach 52,800 feet, or ten miles, before its engines lost compression in the thinner air and could no longer produce the necessary thrust to climb. A burst at a thirty mile altitude would cause EMP disruption in a 480 mile radius. That’s out of the reach of airplanes, and would require an inter-continental ballistic missile to pull off, restricting the actors to the U.S., Russia, China, and Israel. But a high altitude nuclear burst at ten miles up, carried by an aforementioned corporate jet, would cause an EMP effect of over 100 miles radius.

One would take out everything from Richmond to Baltimore, including the nation’s capitol. Another could knock back to the horse and buggy era both Philadelphia and New York City. You get the picture. How many of these might it take to trigger the collapse and balkanization of America through the absence of Federal power and authority? Some day, some body might let us find out…

5 Places World War III Could Start in 2017

 

[Maverick]

50,000 feet wouldn't cause wide spread EMP effect, that would require a high altitude nuclear detonation (HEMP) or NEMP even a specific NNEMP such as cruise missiles would be more localized that wouldn't garner the coast to coast effect, only a HEMP would be more widespread with an detonation 200-250 miles above the earth such as over Kansas to cause widespread EMP desired affects. Most nuclear weapons are thermal thus far less efficient at producing EMP because of the pre-ionize stage of the explosion, an NEMP is far harder to come by than a nuclear thermal weapon, to cause mid damage an NEMP would have to be detonated at a minimum of 40 miles above the surface (mid-stratosphere)

If terrorist organization have the ability to fly or launch a missile 40 miles over it's target than I would say we are in more trouble than we realize. I think ground burst is more likely but closer to a dirty bomb.

 

[lonewolf]

terrorists aren't likely to have access to a rocket sophisticated enough to fly a nuclear bomb, nor are they likely to have the skills to launch it, their "skills" are more about cutting throats and whipping people, they are more likely to resort to a dirty bomb in some city centre.

 

[Billy Roper]

Actually, as I wrote in my first post above, a corporate jet could reach the ten mile height necessary for an EMP effect over about a 100 radius area.

 

[Billy Roper]

I know, I'm sometimes guilty of not reading a whole post when it's longish, too. So, to clarify through repetition:
A corporate jet, which is large enough to carry an atomic bomb of any size, can reach a flying height of 50,000 feet. That’s about 9 1/2 miles. That same small corporate jet could easily reach 52,800 feet, or ten miles, before its engines lost compression in the thinner air and could no longer produce the necessary thrust to climb. A burst at a thirty mile altitude would cause EMP disruption in a 480 mile radius. That’s out of the reach of airplanes, and would require an inter-continental ballistic missile to pull off, restricting the actors to the U.S., Russia, China, and Israel. But a high altitude nuclear burst at ten miles up, carried by an aforementioned corporate jet, would cause an EMP effect of over 100 miles radius.

One would take out everything from Richmond to Baltimore, including the nation’s capitol. Another could knock back to the horse and buggy era both Philadelphia and New York City. You get the picture. How many of these might it take to trigger the collapse and balkanization of America through the absence of Federal power and authority?

 

[Gazrok]

forgetting that a dozen other countries also have the capability of literally knocking the United States back to the nineteenth century, creating societal collapse, economic depression, and political civil war through the use of just two or three high altitude bursts of nuclear weapons which would create an Electro-Magnetic Pulse and fry most of the electronic circuitry in the U.S.

The logistics problem with this is, how would anyone but Russia or China get these devices to the required target without being blown out of the sky? Russia or China could do it just by including it with a barrage ICBM attack, but short of that, it would be a pretty difficult (though not impossible) feat.

Finding an aircraft capable of delivering the EMP weapon may prove difficult, if rumored specs are to be believed...as it isn't a light weapon. But likely not impossible.

A coordinated ground and cyber attack on the grid would be far harder to thwart, require less tech, and be just as effective overall. That's my real grid worry. Our system is way to vulnerable to this.

 

[Maverick]

But then you have the pre-ionize stage or lack of, that would require a state-sponsored supply such as Russia or China to supply an NEMP, a small thermo nuclear let say 5kt or under at 10miles altitude may cause some over pressure and perhaps a EMP affects on some equipment, yes it will disable a city to a degree. The biggest and most profound effect would be the fear factor not so much in damage unless it was a 100kt but again the biggest cause of damage would be over-pressure.

 

[user 6493]

this type of weapon will be used in large citys,,,NEW YORK,,,,LA ,St Louis,,,,,Memphis that would be my closest likely target even though Little Rock is just about the same distance but hell there is not much there,,,so taking into consideration how far off either is I would think I would be safe from this type of weapon

 

[Maverick]

this type of weapon will be used in large citys,,,NEW YORK,,,,LA ,St Louis,,,,,Memphis that would be my closest likely target even though Little Rock is just about the same distance but hell there is not much there,,,so taking into consideration how far off either is I would think I would be safe from this type of weapon

More than likely high profile targets such as New York City, Washington DC, Chicago, L.A., San Fransisco, pretty much the perceived power base of intellectual thinking. Those targets would garner the Western shock factor. Anything else would purely be opportunistic.

 

[Maverick]

.

 

[Billy Roper]

Yes, so the most devastating effects of such a weapons wouldn't be direct, but economic. Imagine the chaos if three or four of our largest urban areas were EMP attacked simultaneously, combined with an attack on the power grid regionally, if not nationally. It could cause an economic crash.

 

[Maverick]

Yes, so the most devastating effects of such a weapons wouldn't be direct, but economic. Imagine the chaos if three or four of our largest urban areas were EMP attacked simultaneously, combined with an attack on the power grid regionally, if not nationally. It could cause an economic crash.

That kind of logistics, coordination would create too much chatter plus hiding that kind of ordnance would be more than difficult plus you would have the discipline factor. Not saying it's impossible though not likely on that kind of scale, a coordinated attack on one city would be more likely.

 

[Billy Roper]

One would hope so, but remember the coordinated attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon and other hijackings that day, too. But yeah, even if it was just one: D.C. or N.Y., imagine.

 

[Maverick]

One would hope so, but remember the coordinated attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon and other hijackings that day, too. But yeah, even if it was just one: D.C. or N.Y., imagine.

Though in a different era, we weren't listening for chatter nor expecting that kind of attack on our soil unlike today. Lone wolf attacks or small group setting are almost impossible to detect. I have read that 3400 attacks have been stopped but the FBI didn't release anymore information such as the size of the attack or locations of the attacks other than they were thwarted. It would be interesting to know the scale of the planned attacks.

 

[lonewolf]

an EMP dosent bother me, losing electricity is something I have planned for, but I can imagine the panic-especially in the cities- when their lights don't come on, their central heating dosent work, even their electric alarm clock dosent work.

 

[jeager]

One would hope so, but remember the coordinated attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon and other hijackings that day, too. But yeah, even if it was just one: D.C. or N.Y., imagine.

Why if I lived in those place or places like them I'd move!
(I understand that picking up and moving isn't easy for many.)

 

[Proud Prepper]

This wouldn't affect me directly very much, just loss of a few luxuries. But it's the affect it would have on others that would cause me problems.

 

[Mountain trapper]

An EMP wouldn't have too much of an impact on us. We'll be pretty well set up even if our solar electric system and generators quit working. We have a backup propane fridge and freezer that would work until the propane ran out. After that we'd use snow and ice to keep things cold. The higher elevations not far from the ranch have snow until August. After that we'd depend on canned food, hunting, fishing, foraging and whatever the garden produces.

 

[lonewolf]

similar here too, got enough food stores for 6-9 months, then its hunting/trapping, fishing, foraging and what we grow in the garden. low population area, which I think will be even lower post SHTF, people die, people move away, maybe some of them couldn't even get home when the EMP struck??

 

[Billy Roper]

This wouldn't affect me directly very much, just loss of a few luxuries. But it's the affect it would have on others that would cause me problems.

That's a great point. We who could barely feed ourselves couldn't feed everyone, so we might have to make harsh decisions about who gets to eat. In many areas the kind of far-sighted leadership would be needed which we all know most politicians lack, even the ones who aren't corrupt. So, if we don't withdraw from the world and let everyone who can't feed themselves, young and old, die, then we have the choice of pitching in and taking charge or becoming a person of influence to try to help as much as we can. It may come down to those two choices.

 

[lonewolf]

I didn't become a prepper so that I could be a food supply source for those that couldn't be bothered or didn't give it a second thought. i'm certainly not going to be too concerned over the plight of people I don't even know. sorry.

 

[Billy Roper]

I didn't become a prepper so that I could be a food supply source for those that couldn't be bothered or didn't give it a second thought. i'm certainly not going to be too concerned over the plight of people I don't even know. sorry.

Well, that's one choice. And, certainly I agree that my family would come first, before anyone else's, that's just logical and sane. It may not be "moral", to not try to help organize and lead in the aftermath of such an event, but it's a choice many people will have to make based on what is best for them and theirs. However, if my family had enough, without taking food out of their mouths, and my local community needed defending from refugees or outlaws, I'd try to help them, too.

 

[Maverick]

This wouldn't affect me directly very much, just loss of a few luxuries. But it's the affect it would have on others that would cause me problems.

Totally agree. And that's the bottom line (in bold above) I'm not overly concerned with an EMP/CME. My concern is with the people that are ill-prepared, ain't no animal more dangerous than the one's trying to feed the young!