Fixing low water flush toilets.

[montanabill]

I had replaced the toilet in our older home with a new toilet a couple of years ago. Everything worked fine for a while but little by little it just wouldn't flush the solids down and required two flushes or plunger use.
I tried various cleaners and even pepsi put in over night to clean it out. Those things kinda worked for a while but sooner or later it was back to not flushing very well. our well water is hard with minerals and it coats most things so I surmised it was making extra drag in the toilet and slowing down the flushing.
I know someone who has rentals and he always tries to keep the older toilets that use more water since they flush better and have fewer problems with the whole system.
After some thought I figured why not make my water stingy toilet hold more water?
The shut off float valve in the tank looked like it was designed for a higher water level so I went to the hardware store and got a short piece of clear one inch hose. I heated it up with a lighter to soften it and slipped over the stand pipe. After adjusting the water level higher it works like a charm.
Simple fix for a aggravating problem.

 

[Supervisor42]

I had replaced the toilet in our older home with a new toilet a couple of years ago. Everything worked fine for a while but little by little it just wouldn't flush the solids down and required two flushes or plunger use.
I tried various cleaners and even pepsi put in over night to clean it out. Those things kinda worked for a while but sooner or later it was back to not flushing very well. our well water is hard with minerals and it coats most things so I surmised it was making extra drag in the toilet and slowing down the flushing.
I know someone who has rentals and he always tries to keep the older toilets that use more water since they flush better and have fewer problems with the whole system.
After some thought I figured why not make my water stingy toilet hold more water?
The shut off float valve in the tank looked like it was designed for a higher water level so I went to the hardware store and got a short piece of clear one inch hose. I heated it up with a lighter to soften it and slipped over the stand pipe. After adjusting the water level higher it works like a charm.
Simple fix for a aggravating problem.

Yeah, it chaps my hiney that just because California is short on water, that somehow the rest of the people in the country flushing less water, will somehow magically fix their lack of planning.
I haven't met a toilet yet that I haven't modified.
You want to save money? Save actual money, not some liquid that falls from the sky for free.

 

[old tex]

I've had the same problems that you have had because we have the same kind of water you have. I love your solution by the way. Here's what I did which also solved the problem. I go to the local dollar store & buy lots of CLR to dissolve minerals. Every now & then I drain the toilet & then spray CLR into the guts of the flush mechanism. I let it set, rinse & repeat a couple of times. That has worked for me.

Something else I do. I assume that the same problem I have with toilets (mineral buildup) will also happen sooner or later with other household things. So I bought some citric acid granules & run a cup of them through my dishwasher & washing machine (empty of course) every 6 months or so. So far no problems with them.

 

[zoomzoom]

My experience:
Hard chemicals (e.g. bleach) in the tank can damage the flush mechanism.
I had the same issue as @montanabill where after awhile, it just wouldn't flush right. Everything in the tank was fine. The culprit - In the bottom of the bowl (not the tank), there's a opening for water to jet water out. Mine was filled with calcium deposits making it such that it didn't flow enough water. This left the little holes under the seat area to dump the water. That's not enough! I drained the bowl and using an assortment of bendy tools, files, screwdrivers... I was able to remove the deposits. Works like new again.

 

[Haertig]

I've got a problem in one toilet that I haven't had before (the fix is simple, I just haven't done it yet).

In the past I have had floats like the one in the pic in the initial post in this thread, and that float doesn't always make it up high enough to completely shut off the water. So water keeps trickling into the tank after the flush and fill has completed. The standpipe does what it's supposed to and the tank doesn't overflow. but it's a waste of water. Easy enough to fix - install a new float mechanism.

But now I have a float that never fails to go up all the way, but it fails to go DOWN when the tank empties. So the tank doesn't start refilling. The float eventually falls down and the tank refills. But you'll hear the flush finish - then silence. No filling of the tank. Then a minute later, you'll hear the water switch on for the fill. The fix is the same as the above problem - just replace the silly float mechanism. But I've found that a few vigorous slides of the float up and down by hand must scrape off whatever deposits that have built up and hindered the downward slide. So about every 6 months I do this manual slide up-down-up-down a few times and all is well for several months. It only takes seconds to do this.

I guess I should stop being lazy and just replace the stupid float mechanism. It's not like that's a difficult thing to do - but you do have to drain the tank and sponge out the water left over after the emptying flush. And those washers used in mounting always seem to have somewhat disintegrated and when you disturb them you get black yeuck all over the place. Hence my laziness and delay in replacing the float mechanism. Now that I think about it, maybe the twice a year manual up-down-up-down of the float isn't such a bad way to handle the situation! Sometimes laziness wins.

 

[havasu]

Great idea. I see your fill valve looks pretty corroded, which could cause it to stick, and your flapper looks pretty worn, so pay close attention. Remember, Fluidmaster flush valves are easy to install and will set you back about $13, but nothing wrong with your "Ingenuity!"

Please remember, a sister forum we have available is:

www.plumbingforums.com

Come say hi!

 

[Mountain trapper]

I have the same problem with my toilets too, except my drain line plugs up where it enters the septic tank. Every year or so I have to dig up the septic and unplug it. When I take the cap off the clean out it shoots up like a geyser. I think what's happening in my system is there isn't enough water when we flush to force all the solids all the way to the septic. I'm going to take the advice above and increase the amount of water in the toilet tanks. That should help force everything to the septic tank.

 

[havasu]

Inside the tank of every toilet is a maximum fill line. This is where they are designed to work the best, but many also have a maximum fill line where anymore added water could begin to trickle out through the flush handle, or the vents which many toilets have high up in the tank. Increasing water helps with flushing solids, but just know your toilet limits.

 

[Weedygarden]

Great idea. I see your fill valve looks pretty corroded, which could cause it to stick, and your flapper looks pretty worn, so pay close attention. Remember, Fluidmaster flush valves are easy to install and will set you back about $13, but nothing wrong with your "Ingenuity!"

Please remember, a sister forum we have available is:

www.plumbingforums.com

Come say hi!

Sister forums! We need a thread that is just about sister forums!

 

[Weedygarden]

I'll look at mine because it isn't flushing everything down always the first time. I often use a pitcher of water and pour it in just as I am flushing. It's an inconvenience to have to do that, but it works. It brings the water level up fast enough that whatever causes everything to go down works.

 

[havasu]

Just a tidbit of information, I installed "Ultra Low Flow" toilets throughout my house. I have 3 of them. Each flush is .82 gallons of water. So far, in 4 years, I have had exactly 2 clogs, which were easily double flushed and cleared. They are called Niagara Stealth Conservation toilets.

 

[Supervisor42]

Just a tidbit of information, I installed "Ultra Low Flow" toilets throughout my house. I have 3 of them. Each flush is .82 gallons of water. So far, in 4 years, I have had exactly 2 clogs, which were easily double flushed and cleared. They are called Niagara Stealth Conservation toilets.

You are in Kalifornia, so that is one of the few places that they makes sense.
Water is very expen$ive there.

 

[havasu]

Water is very expen$ive there.

EVERYTHING is expensive here!

 

[Tirediron]

I have the same problem with my toilets too, except my drain line plugs up where it enters the septic tank. Every year or so I have to dig up the septic and unplug it. When I take the cap off the clean out it shoots up like a geyser. I think what's happening in my system is there isn't enough water when we flush to force all the solids all the way to the septic. I'm going to take the advice above and increase the amount of water in the toilet tanks. That should help force everything to the septic tank.

If you get a knowledgable plumbing store they recommend a higher per solids flush toilet for septic systems due to that problem, another problem in rural systems is the angle is often too steep, and the fluids just rush past the solids, (plumbing is more than $*it runs down hill and payday.....)
And the other thing that just drives me bonkers is the cost of "Pee" toilets , that would save water IF that was the goal, not just jerk people around. smaller trap far less water wasted per flush.

 

[Supervisor42]

I hope everybody appreciates the huge effort I am making to stay off of my soapbox about this.

 

[zoomzoom]

another problem in rural systems is the angle is often too steep, and the fluids just rush past the solids,

I think what's happening in my system is there isn't enough water when we flush to force all the solids all the way to the septic.

Got my quotes out of order but @Tirediron mentioned what I was going to say about a possible problem for @Mountain trapper

I'm not a plumber but as I recall, the pitch of your main septic pipe in the house has to be right. I think it's something like 1" of fall for every 10-12' of pipe. If the fall is more than that (let's say 2"), the liquid flows too fast to take the solids with it. Therefore, the solids build up.

 

[Cabin Fever]

We use a Flushmate canister in our toilets. It is similar to a pressure tank used with wells. It sits inside the toilet tank. Water is stored in the canister under household water pressure. When you flush, the water comes screaming out of the tank and flushes the toilet. The powerful flushing action is similar to the toilets you find in public restrooms in restaurants, airports, rest stops, etc. The Flushmate does not require any electricity. The inside of your porcelain toilet tank stays dry which is nice because it won't sweat in humid weather.

 

[Supervisor42]

We use a Flushmate canister in our toilets. It is similar to a pressure tank used with wells. It sits inside the toilet tank. Water is stored in the canister under household water pressure. When you flush, the water comes screaming out of the tank and flushes the toilet. The powerful flushing action is similar to the toilets you find in public restrooms in restaurants, airports, rest stops, etc. The Flushmate does not require any electricity. The inside of your porcelain toilet tank stays dry which is nice because it won't sweat in humid weather.
View attachment 167255

How does the flush handle trigger it? Does it run 'wide-open' until you release the handle.
I could certainly use one of those because sometimes I 'paint the bowl'.
That looks like the perfect cure for the current puny 'short-tank' models that have taken over today.

 

[Cabin Fever]

How does the flush handle trigger it? Does it run 'wide-open' until you release the handle.
I could certainly use one of those because sometimes I 'paint the bowl'.
That looks like the perfect cure for the current puny 'short-tank' models that have taken over today.

The flush handle operation is just like a regular toilet. Just give it a push and release. The canister releases wide open until the canister is emptied. Then, it closes the water flow out and allows new water flow in. This photo I got from a google search might help.

 

[Supervisor42]

The flush handle operation is just like a regular toilet. Just give it a push and release. The canister releases wide open until the canister is emptied. Then, it closes the water flow out and allows new water flow in. This photo I got from a google search might help.
View attachment 167258

Ah! That was the part I couldn't see in your first pic.
If you post a link to it, I bet a lot of people who aren't 'modifiers' would get one.
The second picture shows the 2 holes they put in the tank to try to keep people from fixing the stupid 'low-flow' problem.

 

[Cabin Fever]

Ah! That was the part I couldn't see in your first pic.
If you post a link to it, I bet a lot of people who aren't 'modifiers' would get one.
The second picture shows the 2 holes they put in the tank to try to keep people from fixing the stupid 'low-flow' problem.

https://www.flushmate.com/

 

[Mountain trapper]

Got my quotes out of order but @Tirediron mentioned what I was going to say about a possible problem for @Mountain trapper

I'm not a plumber but as I recall, the pitch of your main septic pipe in the house has to be right. I think it's something like 1" of fall for every 10-12' of pipe. If the fall is more than that (let's say 2"), the liquid flows too fast to take the solids with it. Therefore, the solids build up.

I pumped out the septic, then dug up the line between the septic tank and the house to make sure it had the right drop. From the tank to about 8 foot out was pretty flat. I fixed it to get the right drop. That lasted for about a year before pluging up again. It's virtually impossible to find a qualified plumber around here that will come up to our place.

 

[montanabill]

I have the same problem with my toilets too, except my drain line plugs up where it enters the septic tank. Every year or so I have to dig up the septic and unplug it. When I take the cap off the clean out it shoots up like a geyser. I think what's happening in my system is there isn't enough water when we flush to force all the solids all the way to the septic. I'm going to take the advice above and increase the amount of water in the toilet tanks. That should help force everything to the septic tank.

Also if you live in a cold climate it is good if you have enough relatively warm water (even cold water is warm at sub zero temps) to push the solids all the way out the pipe to the septic tank. A friend rents out a camper spot that uses his septic tank for the house and when it gets really cold he has to make sure the camper toilet inlet gets enough water to flush into the tank.

 

[montanabill]

I have three toilets in my house. two are older with a large tank.
The one I have had problems with and fixed by raising the water level in the tank is a cheap one from the big box store. The whole thing looks like it once had a higher level of water designed in and then to probably meet stringent water conservation they just shortened the overflow pipe and adjusted the shut off valve downwards.
Extending the overflow pipe upwards a quart or two just seems to restore the toilet back to how it was originally designed to operate.

 

[Tirediron]

the toilet flush "mystery" is that it needs enough water to push the poop and paper through the trap, with enough velocity to make it pull air and break the suction, thus why the rapid addition of as little as a quart of water at the end of a "less than flush " makes the process work.

 

[Haertig]

In the old days, when toilet tanks were generally larger sized, the way many people saved water was to leave the stand pipe and float set at a high level and simply put some bricks in the tank to displace water. That way you didn't have to shorten the stand pipe or adjust the float level. If your toilet stopped flushing well, just remove a brick or two and see if that fixed it.

 

[zoomzoom]

If all your household drains are slow, make sure the vent to/through the roof isn't clogged.

 

[Mountain trapper]

If all your household drains are slow, make sure the vent to/through the roof isn't clogged.

Due to the amount of snow we get here, all of my vents all go through the side or the gabel end of the house. Nothing goes through the roof.

 

[zoomzoom]

Due to the amount of snow we get here, all of my vents all go through the side or the gabel end of the house. Nothing goes through the roof.

Point remains, make sure it's clear or bird or spider nests.

IMPORTANT NOTE! Don't use a gas-powered leaf blower (i.e. high-power blower) to make sure that vent is clear. I did that once. The Mrs. was sitting on the toilet (with seat down) doing makeup or whatever when I went on the roof and took the blower and shot it down the vent. Water blew out of all the toilets. She wasn't very happy that her legs got soaking wet.

 

[Mountain trapper]

Point remains, make sure it's clear or bird or spider nests.

IMPORTANT NOTE! Don't use a gas-powered leaf blower (i.e. high-power blower) to make sure that vent is clear. I did that once. The Mrs. was sitting on the toilet (with seat down) doing makeup or whatever when I went on the roof and took the blower and shot it down the vent. Water blew out of all the toilets. She wasn't very happy that her legs got soaking wet.

It's clear, now. When the house was built the plumber forget to cut the cap off the vent pipe. We were noticing a gas smell and the toilets weren't flushing properly. When I figured out what was wrong I climbed up and cut the cap off and put a wire screen over the opening to keep birds and other critters out.