Fixing stairs - who to call?

[Haertig]

We have an inside set of stairs going four steps down from the breakfast nook into the family room (tri-level house). They are carpeted. Evidently one of those steps has broken, because it started with a slight sag, and then rapidly progressed to probably two inches or more of sag. It is a significant hazard that needs to be fixed pronto. Who do you call to fix stairs? Are there "general carpentry" businesses or something like that? The top of the stairs is covered with carpet, and underneath them is basement below, but it's drywalled under the stairs so you can't see up into them. I imagine I could figure out how to rip up carpeting on stairs and take a look to see what has happened, but honestly, I have zero skills for doing this type of thing. I couldn't do a repair properly or safely, so I'm not going even going to try. I'll just call the pros from the get-go.

But who do I call for "stair repair"? What type of business does that? "Remodeling" possibly? "Deck builders"? (they put in lots of stairs you'd think, but of the outside variety). I'm thinking that multiple types of businesses may take on a task like this (I hope!), but if I call the wrong type of business I could end up paying way more than I should have to. Or I could end up with a sub-standard repair.

 

[Pearl]

What about a local general handyman?

 

[Lolly]

Most handymen can repair a stair tread. It is rather unusual, though as stair treads are designed to take a beating. Since they are carpeted you might want to consider cutting the carpet in a less visible spot (along the crease where the tread meets the riser or underneath the lip of the tread). Best of luck!

 

[Caribou]

Any carpenter worth his salt can build stairs. Most handymen are decent carpenters. First you have to determine the extent of the damage. Have you moved anything heavy up or down those stairs? Treads don't usually just break. You could have an underlying issue of rot or termites.

I sounds as if you might be opening up some new storage area.

 

[backlash]

You might have a difficult time finding someone to repair it.
Not a big enough job to get a contractor to do it.
You could go to a new house being built and ask if one of the guys would be interested in a side job.
Myself the first thing I would do is remove the carpeting on the entire staircase and see what is happening.
Removing carpeting is easy. Just grab it with a pair of pliers and pull. You can't really mess it up because the carpeting will have to be removed anyhow to fix what's broken.
Your problem should never happen especially with only 4 steps.
Like @Caribou said treads don't usually break. You might have a bigger problem.

 

[Peanut]

Any carpenter worth his salt can build stairs.

Treads don't usually just break. You could have an underlying issue of rot or termites.

Yep, agree. Sounds like a bigger issue than just stairs. If built correctly they don't break. Is there a slab underneath part of the area? Agree also, simple carpentry. I'd do this myself. All you need is a framing square, hand saw, hammer and nails. Laying out stairs is simple.

 

[Caribou]

Is there another way through the house without using these stairs? I hesitate to suggest removing the carpet as that sounds to me as it might be holding the step together. It also sounds as though it won't hold it together much longer. It is a dangerous situation.

Are you a member of a church or another organization? Perhaps there is someone there that is a handyman or retired carpenter that could use a few extra bucks, or knows someone. My MIL hired a handyman after my FIL died, do you know any single old ladies you might get a referral from?

 

[Neb]

We have an inside set of stairs going four steps down from the breakfast nook into the family room (tri-level house). They are carpeted. Evidently one of those steps has broken, because it started with a slight sag, and then rapidly progressed to probably two inches or more of sag. It is a significant hazard that needs to be fixed pronto. Who do you call to fix stairs? Are there "general carpentry" businesses or something like that? The top of the stairs is covered with carpet, and underneath them is basement below, but it's drywalled under the stairs so you can't see up into them. I imagine I could figure out how to rip up carpeting on stairs and take a look to see what has happened, but honestly, I have zero skills for doing this type of thing. I couldn't do a repair properly or safely, so I'm not going even going to try. I'll just call the pros from the get-go.

But who do I call for "stair repair"? What type of business does that? "Remodeling" possibly? "Deck builders"? (they put in lots of stairs you'd think, but of the outside variety). I'm thinking that multiple types of businesses may take on a task like this (I hope!), but if I call the wrong type of business I could end up paying way more than I should have to. Or I could end up with a sub-standard repair.

Home Depot or Lowes have contractors that do installs. Check with them.

Ben

 

[Peanut]

After reading the OP again… The sheetrock on the bottom side has to come off to repair/replace the stairs. So, I’d go ahead and rip it down. Or, cut out a 1ft x 1ft square directly underneath the bad step. This allows you to see the problem.

Then you can cut 2x4’s to brace/support the steps from the basement floor, stops the step from collapsing while you arrange repairs.

 

[Neb]

After reading the OP again… The sheetrock on the bottom side has to come off to repair/replace the stairs. So, I’d go ahead and rip it down. Or, cut out a 1ft x 1ft square directly underneath the bad step. This allows you to see the problem.

Then you can cut 2x4’s to brace/support the steps from the basement floor, stops the step from collapsing while you arrange repairs.

Hmmm

The carpet will have to come up (preferably without damaging it) to fix the step.

It MAY be fixable without touching the sheet rock below. Wouldn't cutting the sheetrock guarantee an extra expense to finishing the project?

Ben

 

[Peanut]

Hmmm

The carpet will have to come up (preferably without damaging it) to fix the step.

It MAY be fixable without touching the sheet rock below. Wouldn't cutting the sheetrock guarantee an extra expense to finishing the project?

Ben

Possible, but only if the stairs can be fixed from the top, an assumption. Which is why i suggested bracing through a one foot square. Not hard to patch. More importantly it buys time. Time to get the right carpenter to do the job. He might have to wait a week or three to get someone there. Properly braced the steps can be used until repaired permanently.

 

[hashbrown]

If I was close I’d come fix it for you. First thing pull the carpet off so you know what you’re dealing with.

 

[dademoss]

Pull the carpet, and post pictures. if you were closer, I know some guys .

 

[Haertig]

Wow, I just checked in here and see a ton of replies that I hadn't seen before. I was depending on the forum software to notify me when there were reply posts to my thread here (like it does everywhere else). But I didn't get notifications (don't know why). So sorry everyone, I wasn't ignoring you. I thought you were ignoring me!

OK, our stair sag progressed as we were ruminating what to do, as everyone said it would. We probably had 3 inches of sag at it's worst point. It finally progressed to a loud crack. Luckily, being in my sixties, I hold on to handrails as I go down stairs. So no damage to me other than a "What the heck? Glad I was holding on!"

We pulled up the carpet to look. The board was broken. And it was obvious that earlier it was not truly a "sag", it was broken back then too, just somehow holding together a bit. Because it was made out of particle board. Glue and sawdust. I certainly did not expect to find that!

The treads span 35 inches. I was expecting to find three stringers. Nope. Only one on either side with no support in the middle, for a total of two. And these stringers were not the zig-zag cut I was familiar with. They look like 2x10's that have grooves milled into them. And those grooves are only 1/4" deep. The treads were wedged into those grooves on either side. I guess that means they built the stairs separately then dropped it into place? Because the grooves did not extend fully to either the back or front, so how else would you get the treads in there?

So, unsupported 35" span of 1" particle board, plus 40 years in place, plus not-exactly-skinny occupants - I think we can all guess why this stair failure happened! I cannot believe this passed code inspection. But maybe this was all the code required back when the house was built in 1982/1983 (we are the original owners).

A contractor came over this morning to look at things and give us a bid. I said to him, "I known nothing about carpentry, but this looks like crap to me!" He said that home builders sometimes get by with a lot because they bring many new homes into a town, and the town inspectors sometimes look the other way when it comes to details. And it did last 40 years after all. We both agreed - we're not going to try and repair this mess, we're going to rebuilt it from scratch with a proper three stringer setup. The middle stringer will prove more difficult, because we have a foundation wall and a heating vent that is right in the way, not leaving enough clearance for a standard stringer setup in the center. But the contractor said he can work around that and build a little extra structure to make things rock solid.

While waiting for the work to be done (can't start for about 1-1/2 weeks and it will take two days), we can either hop over the missing step or more likely I'll put in a temporary one. A little angle iron, some lag bolts, and a 2x10 should cover things. The step above the broken one seems a little soft to us now. That could be paranoia, or it could be that the iffy construction was relying on the riser under it providing structural support to the step below - which is now missing. So I'm thinking that hopping two steps might put additional stress on the one above and cause it to fail too. So I think a temporary step is the way to go. I can get to the lower level of the house to do the work by coming in through the garage.

Thanks again for the replies - I'm going to go back a re-read them all again to make sure I get things right. Sorry I missed them all. I really wasn't ignoring you - I just didn't think anybody had replied!

 

[Haertig]

Oh, and FWIW, the drywall under the stairs is only partial. These stairs straddle being over the basement and over the crawlspace. There's a concrete wall dividing the spaces. So there is only a little bit of drywall under the stairs - the top step only. The remainder of the steps are over the crawlspace and there is no drywall there. Our crawlspace is only three feet high, so while some work could be done from underneath, it wouldn't be pleasant. And to get into the crawlspace, there's that big concrete wall in the way. Access is a little "portal hole", about two feet tall by three feet wide. That hole is about two feet above the basement floor. So you have to do a "Superman dive" like maneuver from the basement to even get into the crawlspace. Wouldn't that be popular trying to carry building materials in through that?!

I imagine that once the old stairs are pulled out, then there's going to be a nice big hole that one could jump through down into the crawlspace a few feet below. So if access is needed from below, I can see one guy being stationed in this jump hole with materials handed to him from above. When done, he could do the Superman dive out of the crawlspace wall hole entrance, but wouldn't have any tools or materials to drag with him.

 

[Bacpacker]

Particle board??? That is unbelievable. I'm shocked it held up as long as it did, unsupported in particular. Glad you found someone to fix it right

 

[backlash]

You need an inspector like this guy.
That ain't right.

 

[Weedygarden]

We have an inside set of stairs going four steps down from the breakfast nook into the family room (tri-level house). They are carpeted. Evidently one of those steps has broken, because it started with a slight sag, and then rapidly progressed to probably two inches or more of sag. It is a significant hazard that needs to be fixed pronto. Who do you call to fix stairs? Are there "general carpentry" businesses or something like that? The top of the stairs is covered with carpet, and underneath them is basement below, but it's drywalled under the stairs so you can't see up into them. I imagine I could figure out how to rip up carpeting on stairs and take a look to see what has happened, but honestly, I have zero skills for doing this type of thing. I couldn't do a repair properly or safely, so I'm not going even going to try. I'll just call the pros from the get-go.

But who do I call for "stair repair"? What type of business does that? "Remodeling" possibly? "Deck builders"? (they put in lots of stairs you'd think, but of the outside variety). I'm thinking that multiple types of businesses may take on a task like this (I hope!), but if I call the wrong type of business I could end up paying way more than I should have to. Or I could end up with a sub-standard repair.

I was at Central Park (formerly Stapleton) Home Depot yesterday morning and there were many Venezuelan refugees looking for work. There were at least a couple dozen men standing around, waiting for someone to pick them up for work. How about one of them?

Now really, I am joking, just trying to add some humor to the pathetic situation of thinking we needed to take in all of these refugees.

 

[Haertig]

I was at Central Park (formerly Stapleton) Home Depot yesterday morning and there were many Venezuelan refugees looking for work. There were at least a couple dozen men standing around, waiting for someone to pick them up for work. How about one of them?

Those are probably the guys who built the original stairs ...

 

[Haertig]

It's not like our house is a dump or in a bad area. To look at it you'd think it was just fine. Just don't pull up the carpet and look at the stairs. And in truth, a casual look at the stairs under the carpet - from the top - looks fine too (well, except for the broken one!) You may not even recognize the particle board, because there is carpet padding stapled on top of that. But when you look underneath - at the parts you normally can't see - that's where the questionable construction lives.

I wonder how many other "middle class" type homes are the same? With a bit of questionable construction here and there? Probably even high end expensive homes too. Most purchasers would never know. We didn't. How many here can say they have personally inspected their stringers, treads and risers? The construction oriented people here might have, but the rest of us - probably not. It's kind of an eye opener that makes you feel ... not proud.

 

[Weedygarden]

It's not like our house is a dump or in a bad area. To look at it you'd think it was just fine. Just don't pull up the carpet and look at the stairs. And in truth, a casual look at the stairs under the carpet - from the top - looks fine too (well, except for the broken one!) You may not even recognize the particle board, because there is carpet padding stapled on top of that. But when you look underneath - at the parts you normally can't see - that's where the questionable construction lives.

I wonder how many other "middle class" type homes are the same? With a bit of questionable construction here and there? Probably even high end expensive homes too. Most purchasers would never know. We didn't. How many here can say they have personally inspected their stringers, treads and risers? The construction oriented people here might have, but the rest of us - probably not. It's kind of an eye opener that makes you feel ... not proud.

I think you are right on about this. Take homes that were built many years, decades or centuries ago, and many are still lived in. My home is 130+ years old. Of course, things need to be repaired, maintained, replaced. A cousin was in Europe this past summer and visited an old family home where my g grandfather was born in the 1830's. It is still lived in.

 

[LadyLocust]

We have an inside set of stairs going four steps down from the breakfast nook into the family room (tri-level house). They are carpeted. Evidently one of those steps has broken, because it started with a slight sag, and then rapidly progressed to probably two inches or more of sag. It is a significant hazard that needs to be fixed pronto. Who do you call to fix stairs? Are there "general carpentry" businesses or something like that? The top of the stairs is covered with carpet, and underneath them is basement below, but it's drywalled under the stairs so you can't see up into them. I imagine I could figure out how to rip up carpeting on stairs and take a look to see what has happened, but honestly, I have zero skills for doing this type of thing. I couldn't do a repair properly or safely, so I'm not going even going to try. I'll just call the pros from the get-go.

But who do I call for "stair repair"? What type of business does that? "Remodeling" possibly? "Deck builders"? (they put in lots of stairs you'd think, but of the outside variety). I'm thinking that multiple types of businesses may take on a task like this (I hope!), but if I call the wrong type of business I could end up paying way more than I should have to. Or I could end up with a sub-standard repair.

If they are wooden stairs, a GC (general contractor). I would ask at your local lumber supply if there is a reputable small business. You don't want someone who is used to building apartment complexes, you just need a repair. A smaller independent contractor is probably your best bet. If you were local, there are a couple folks I could recommend so it shouldn't be difficult to find such a person there.

 

[backlash]

It's not like our house is a dump or in a bad area. To look at it you'd think it was just fine. Just don't pull up the carpet and look at the stairs. And in truth, a casual look at the stairs under the carpet - from the top - looks fine too (well, except for the broken one!) You may not even recognize the particle board, because there is carpet padding stapled on top of that. But when you look underneath - at the parts you normally can't see - that's where the questionable construction lives.

I wonder how many other "middle class" type homes are the same? With a bit of questionable construction here and there? Probably even high end expensive homes too. Most purchasers would never know. We didn't. How many here can say they have personally inspected their stringers, treads and risers? The construction oriented people here might have, but the rest of us - probably not. It's kind of an eye opener that makes you feel ... not proud.

Our first house was a spec house. I learned this years later.
In other words the builder built it speculating on a quick sell.
There were thing that made me wonder how it have ever passed an inspected. I suspect it didn't or money changed hands between the builder and inspector.
The bedroom floor sagged so there was an inch wide gap between the wall and the floor.
The septic drain field was one continues run about 120 feet long and there was no 90° elbow on the last turn, just a case of empty beer cans. About 30% of the drain field was not connected.
No fingers off a main septic line just 1 pipe laid out in an S shape.
All the stairs and most of the floor would squeak when you walk on them.
None of this was apparent until several years later.
The contractor filed bankruptcy and started a new company under a different name. So there was not much I could do about it except to repair things myself.

 

[Neb]

Wow, I just checked in here and see a ton of replies that I hadn't seen before. I was depending on the forum software to notify me when there were reply posts to my thread here (like it does everywhere else). But I didn't get notifications (don't know why). So sorry everyone, I wasn't ignoring you. I thought you were ignoring me!

OK, our stair sag progressed as we were ruminating what to do, as everyone said it would. We probably had 3 inches of sag at it's worst point. It finally progressed to a loud crack. Luckily, being in my sixties, I hold on to handrails as I go down stairs. So no damage to me other than a "What the heck? Glad I was holding on!"

We pulled up the carpet to look. The board was broken. And it was obvious that earlier it was not truly a "sag", it was broken back then too, just somehow holding together a bit. Because it was made out of particle board. Glue and sawdust. I certainly did not expect to find that!

The treads span 35 inches. I was expecting to find three stringers. Nope. Only one on either side with no support in the middle, for a total of two. And these stringers were not the zig-zag cut I was familiar with. They look like 2x10's that have grooves milled into them. And those grooves are only 1/4" deep. The treads were wedged into those grooves on either side. I guess that means they built the stairs separately then dropped it into place? Because the grooves did not extend fully to either the back or front, so how else would you get the treads in there?

So, unsupported 35" span of 1" particle board, plus 40 years in place, plus not-exactly-skinny occupants - I think we can all guess why this stair failure happened! I cannot believe this passed code inspection. But maybe this was all the code required back when the house was built in 1982/1983 (we are the original owners).

A contractor came over this morning to look at things and give us a bid. I said to him, "I known nothing about carpentry, but this looks like crap to me!" He said that home builders sometimes get by with a lot because they bring many new homes into a town, and the town inspectors sometimes look the other way when it comes to details. And it did last 40 years after all. We both agreed - we're not going to try and repair this mess, we're going to rebuilt it from scratch with a proper three stringer setup. The middle stringer will prove more difficult, because we have a foundation wall and a heating vent that is right in the way, not leaving enough clearance for a standard stringer setup in the center. But the contractor said he can work around that and build a little extra structure to make things rock solid.

While waiting for the work to be done (can't start for about 1-1/2 weeks and it will take two days), we can either hop over the missing step or more likely I'll put in a temporary one. A little angle iron, some lag bolts, and a 2x10 should cover things. The step above the broken one seems a little soft to us now. That could be paranoia, or it could be that the iffy construction was relying on the riser under it providing structural support to the step below - which is now missing. So I'm thinking that hopping two steps might put additional stress on the one above and cause it to fail too. So I think a temporary step is the way to go. I can get to the lower level of the house to do the work by coming in through the garage.

Thanks again for the replies - I'm going to go back a re-read them all again to make sure I get things right. Sorry I missed them all. I really wasn't ignoring you - I just didn't think anybody had replied!

So...

How'd you find the contractor?

Ben

 

[Haertig]

So...

How'd you find the contractor?

We still want to get some competing bids. We actually don't even have this contractors bid yet, he said he'd get it here in 2 or 3 days. But he did tell me "Rough estimate, $2500, start work in 1-1/2 to 2 weeks, 2 days to complete, maybe 3 if things get difficult. That expense covers disposal of old stuff, the materials and construction - including the weird framing they will have to do to get the center stringer around my obstacles, finish work - staining woodwork, re-install current carpeting, fix any drywall that ends up needing it, tightening up a railing banister that is loose, yada, yada, yada. This $2500 he said is not his actual bid, that will be on paper and formal, but a "pretty close ballpark guess pending the bid".

We found this first contractor off of a radio show website. I think it's a local show, but maybe syndicated elsewhere too? "Tom Martino". https://troubleshooter.com He's been on the radio here forever. He specializes in helping solve peoples problems when they get screwed by maybe an auto repair shop, a contractor - something where they paid money for a service and were treated poorly or unfairly. He calls up the business that is questionable and investigates. Sometimes he will call them live on his radio show and put them on the spot. Anyway, he has a website that lists recommended contractors that he has had good reports about and/or personal dealings. The contractor that grabbed our attention lives about two miles from our house, and all his online ratings, BBB reports, were good.

So he's at least a good one to get a bid from. I really liked the guy when he came over. Super knowledgeable and super friendly. And he answered all my initial questions the way I was hoping they would be answered. Insured and bonded. 40% payment due when they show up for the first day of work with the materials needed already in hand. Remainder payable after work has been finished and inspected and meets code (if a permit is required). All work guaranteed to meet code even if a permit is not required (e.g., for repairs and such). 10 year warranty on work and materials. Only uses licensed electricians, plumbers, etc. (although those won't be part of our job). He told me a bunch of stuff he is certified in, most was Greek to me, but I did hear "framer" and "licensed to build up to four story buildings". It all sounded plenty good enough to me for constructing a four tread stair. Been doing this for 35 years, 12 in this current location. I will check his references too.

I will see who I can find to get at least one other competing bid. But this guy from today was impressive. So I'm glad I called him for a bid.

p.s. - The guy was also nice enough to offer to send someone over to install a temporary step for me tomorrow. But I told him I would not feel right having him do that when we didn't have a signed contract in place yet. I can put in a temporary step myself.

 

[Peanut]

If you had the exact measurements @LadyLocust could fab you a pair of metal stringers, bolt right in. Steel tubing is so much stronger you can get creative with placement and only use 2 stringers, not 3. Maybe even one...

 

[LadyLocust]

If you had the exact measurements @LadyLocust could fab you a pair of metal stringers, bolt right in. Steel tubing is so much stronger you can get creative with placement and only use 2 stringers, not 3. Maybe even one...

Single stringers look pretty cool. Here is one we did with aluminum for a millionaire's "car barn." (w/ cable railing)

 

[Haertig]

To finish out this thread to show you what I found, since so many came to help me out, here's where things stand right now:

This is what I found under my carpet. In the first picture, the larger half of the broken stair was actually hanging down into the crawlspace below. I propped it up on the shorter piece to take a photo. And that little piece of 1x3 (or whatever it's actual size is) was not structural. It appears they tacked that to the bottom of the tread to attach the riser too. Forty plus years of heavy use has destroyed the carpet padding (and the carpet too!) So that will get replaced.

I call this shoddy construction! Notice - the crawlspace below - no insulation was installed under the stairs!

And here is my temporary repair to give us our step back, pending the actual replacement of the staircase by our contractor.

I picked up a 2x10x48" and cut that to 35" for the stair tread. Then the excess I cut into two pieces to use as side supports and lag bolted those into place then screwed the tread in place. Draped the carpet back over the steps and tacked it down with those U shaped nail thingies.

We'll get some new carpet padding when the staircase is done. The new stringers/trim on the sides should look a whole lot better than our scratched up wood too. Rather than replacing the carpet immediately (something that should have been done long ago), we'll have a flooring contractor come out and give us a bid on replacing the carpeting on the floor above and on the stairs with wood flooring. We've been wanting to do that for a long time. Just never got around to it.

Thanks again for the help everyone provided!

 

[Bacpacker]

Good job

 

[Neb]

To finish out this thread to show you what I found, since so many came to help me out, here's where things stand right now:

This is what I found under my carpet. In the first picture, the larger half of the broken stair was actually hanging down into the crawlspace below. I propped it up on the shorter piece to take a photo. And that little piece of 1x3 (or whatever it's actual size is) was not structural. It appears they tacked that to the bottom of the tread to attach the riser too. Forty plus years of heavy use has destroyed the carpet padding (and the carpet too!) So that will get replaced.

I call this shoddy construction! Notice - the crawlspace below - no insulation was installed under the stairs!

View attachment 120861

And here is my temporary repair to give us our step back, pending the actual replacement of the staircase by our contractor.

I picked up a 2x10x48" and cut that to 35" for the stair tread. Then the excess I cut into two pieces to use as side supports and lag bolted those into place then screwed the tread in place. Draped the carpet back over the steps and tacked it down with those U shaped nail thingies.

View attachment 120862

View attachment 120863

We'll get some new carpet padding when the staircase is done. The new stringers/trim on the sides should look a whole lot better than our scratched up wood too. Rather than replacing the carpet immediately (something that should have been done long ago), we'll have a flooring contractor come out and give us a bid on replacing the carpeting on the floor above and on the stairs with wood flooring. We've been wanting to do that for a long time. Just never got around to it.

Thanks again for the help everyone provided!

You did a nice job!

Aside from the lack of toe kick and bullnose edge no one would ever tell you fixed it. I suspect the step you fixed may be stronger than the original.

Ben