Have any experience dealing (buyer or seller) in "BLACK MARKETS"....??

[Sourdough]

Let's, talk about black markets and our need to be skilled at safely functioning and surviving with-in them. You may think that "you" personally have "no" experience dealing in black market commerce.

Please make an effort to avoid turning this into "pre-canned" black market beliefs and propaganda. In some countries more then 50% of commerce is via Black Market. Very "high" probability that going forward more of your needs will be acquired via Black Market transactions.

As products vanish from "normal" supply chains, you will need an alternate source for acquiring goods. (For SURVIVAL).

This thread is about "PREPPING". Any effort to substantially shift it to political will not be appreciated. (Yes, I fully understand that to "some" extent political actions trigger Black Market trade).

 

[Sourdough]

While it is more like "Grey Market", the more rural you currently live, the greater the odds you at least to some degree function in Grey Market, and quite possible some degree Black Market.

 

[Tirediron]

anytime controls are introduced "black markets"( funny how free market not controled by black heart officials is called black market)
An as you stated above as supply chains fail more local market will need to pop up. buying anything used could fit this description , but people are already used to that so...

 

[Sourdough]

An article at least in part referencing Black Market.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2024-11-13/ahead-eu-collapse-and-slow-decay-western-supremacy

 

[Haertig]

I would think it's not the best thing from an OpSec (government over watch) standpoint to discuss black market plans in an open forum. That's kind of like someone discussing "How I'm going to hide my illegal stuff from the government". Maybe it's OK to discuss how you're planning on buying from the black market, but I would steer clear of discussing how you're planning to sell on it.

Maybe I'm just paranoid. But just because you're paranoid doesn't mean someone isn't watching you. If I were the government, I would concentrate my snooping on prepping, militia, etc. forums, not basket weaving forums.

Once the SHTF and society has crumbled, they'll be no such thing as "the black market" anyway. There will just be "the market".

 

[Sourdough]

I think people do it (buy/sell in grey or black market) but pretend in their head it is not black market.

Anchorage, Alaska has "no" sales tax (at least for now). A large jug (1.75 liters) Vodka costs roughly $14.00 but in neighboring towns $28.00 that is "not" entirely sales tax, part is sheer volume, and distance from wholesaler.

So might find someone going to Costco in Anchorage anyway for their own needs. Ask them to pick up three or four cases vodka for me. I give the friend a "Benjamen Franklin", and they nearly wet their pants with joy they are so ecstatic. When they leave, I do a little dance of joy as I put the product away in the wood barn. While not a classic "Black Market" transaction, it shows that we do it, but don't call it or think of it as Black Market.

 

[Haertig]

While not a classic "Black Market" transaction, it shows that we do it, but don't call it or think of it as Black Market.

I wouldn't even remotely consider asking a friend to buy you something (that is legal) and giving them money to do so as being "black market". If you were somehow prohibited from buying an item legally and someone else legally bought it specifically for you in order to bypass laws, that would be a "straw purchase" and might in some ways be considered "black market". Not exactly, but kind of.

I consider black market to be dealing in things that are illegal, or dealing in legal things in a manner that is illegal (this second definition is where straw purchases may start to slip in).

 

[Binky]

I think people do it (buy/sell in grey or black market) but pretend in their head it is not black market.

......While not a classic "Black Market" transaction, it shows that we do it, but don't call it or think of it as Black Market.

When I was a youngster we just called that backdoor bootlegging. Everybody in town knew who the local backdoor bootlegger was, so did the cops for that matter. He was the guy whose door was open at any time of the wee hours to the minor teens looking for beer on weekends or local drunks looking for hootch after the bars closed at midnight on any day of the week.

 

[Sourdough]

I wouldn't even remotely consider asking a friend to buy you something (that is legal) and giving them money to do so as being "black market". If you were somehow prohibited from buying an item legally and someone else legally bought it specifically for you in order to bypass laws, that would be a "straw purchase" and might in some ways be considered "black market". Not exactly, but kind of.

I consider black market to be dealing in things that are illegal, or dealing in legal things in a manner that is illegal (this second definition is where straw purchases may start to slip in).

Guess what........in the Black or Grey Market, buyers & sellers "giggle" at you opinion on the subject. You are 100% entitled to that opinion, just that while it is "righteous", it is not relevant to Black or Grey market reality.

 

[Haertig]

Guess what........in the Black or Grey Market, buyers & sellers "giggle" at you opinion on the subject. You are 100% entitled to that opinion, just that while it is "righteous", it is not relevant to Black or Grey market reality.

I don't have any clue what your point was or what you meant by that. I guess my understanding of what black market means is a running joke between you and your black market buddies? But no matter, I don't need further explanation.

 

[Sourdough]

Is a roadside farmers market a Black or Grey Market......??? If it has no Fire extinguisher, no public restrooms, no business license, no certified scale for weighing tomatoes, no health certificate, no clearly marked "EXITS" signs.

 

[Binky]

Is a roadside farmers market a Black or Grey Market......??? If it has no Fire extinguisher, no public restrooms, no business license, no certified scale for weighing tomatoes, no health certificate, no clearly marked "EXITS" signs.

I think that is neither black or grey market. That's just a farmer setting up one or two tables behind his van or truck at the side of the road or the entrance to his farm with his produce set out on the tables. He doesn't need any of those amenities and his customers don't expect it. If his roadside operation is causing the obstruction of traffic the cops make him pack up his tables and boxes of produce and move along to somewhere else. If he's not obstructing traffic he's left alone.

 

[Sourdough]

We humans are predisposed to believe that how we think things really are & how they really should be, how we want them to be is consistent with how government agencies believe the bear should poop in the woods.

 

[Amish Heart]

Totally agree. And the amish farmers that sell in Penn would agree, too. It's gotten ridiculous.
Here's one I experienced...not quite a "product", but a service. I owned a private school in New Mexico for 18 years. The state regulates anything related to children, and I had to be licensed thru Children Youth and Families of New Mexico each year. Bi annual inspections that I had to pay for, following state rules to the tee. When I retired, sold the business (it was an S Corporation that I was president of) sold the property, I was shocked when the state made me write them a resignation letter, resigning from my "job". Evidentally, they felt that I worked for them. I worked for myself. I paid taxes on my corporation. I owned my business. That ticked me off. I feel the same way about home farm stores. We have many in our area, and our farmer's mkt in the summer. So far, neither are regulated and I hope they stay that way. I am used to going across the road in the spring/summer and buying veggies that I didn't grow or have enough of from the lady with the greenhouses. Leaving the cash in the box, unless she's out working. Then we have a chat.

 

[Amish Heart]

I think that is neither black or grey market. That's just a farmer setting up one or two tables behind his van or truck at the side of the road or the entrance to his farm with his produce set out on the tables. He doesn't need any of those amenities and his customers don't expect it. If his roadside operation is causing the obstruction of traffic the cops make him pack up his tables and boxes of produce and move along to somewhere else. If he's not obstructing traffic he's left alone.

I'm just going to guess that Canadian laws are different than American laws

 

[d_marsh]

I engaged in the purchase or trade of certain goods in foreign lands against the advice of my command structure on many occasions. I routinely do the same here in the US for goods that likely violate requirements for tax collection, licensing, safety standards, ordnances, etc.

 

[Canon29]

My wife may or may not have sold cookies (really just reimbursement for ingredients) without a cottage license

I'm with @Haertig on this one.

 

[Supervisor42]

I engaged in the purchase or trade of certain goods in foreign lands against the advice of my command structure on many occasions. I routinely do the same here in the US for goods that likely violate requirements for tax collection, licensing, safety standards, ordnances, etc.

I have bought gun-lasers directly from China that were far above the legal power level allowed by the stupid gubment 5mw limit.
So, I guess I'm guilty of buying from the 'black-market'.
(BTW, not illegal to buy, or own, just illegal for a US company to sell).

 

[Mountain trapper]

What I buy and sell is only between me and the person I'm doing business with, period.

 

[Binky]

I'm just going to guess that Canadian laws are different than American laws

Both Canadian and American laws have their basis in Common English Law that was originally brought to the Americas by colonists. But there are indeed a lot of current Canadian and American laws that have developed over the past 200 years or so that are different from each other due to differences in our respective constitutions and rights and freedoms laws.

 

[elkhound]

I think that is neither black or grey market. That's just a farmer setting up one or two tables behind his van or truck at the side of the road or the entrance to his farm with his produce set out on the tables. He doesn't need any of those amenities and his customers don't expect it. If his roadside operation is causing the obstruction of traffic the cops make him pack up his tables and boxes of produce and move along to somewhere else. If he's not obstructing traffic he's left alone.

if you sale anything by the weight...you need a state inspected and certified scale.... now that being said.....if both parties agree to scale being used and happy with buy and selling then go for it...but...theres some times having a certified scale protects both parties..one example when weighing very small amounts of stuff out....before anyone other illegal drugs...no and just no....i am talking items like seed,spices,various things you might buy...oh one..saffron...if i was selling it you bet theres going to be inspection sticker on scale....ever seen a transaction where even a sandwich baggie changes price by a lot...i have.

also on side note on having a great scale..at times you might want to do certain recipes that require weight as the way of measure.


go sale wild medicinals....or go buy and probably lose your shirt and more.

 

[elkhound]

theres all kinds of markets....call them grey,black,yellow or underground....i seen with my own eyes...guy with scale buying mushrooms multiple times a week on side of road in a place i use to live....he was armed to the teeth and had shotgun by his side...he kept a brief case full of cash to buy mushrooms from mushroom gatherers....some made $40k a year over 35 years ago....from mushrooms and forest products...highly regulated and licensed too from gatherers themselves.

it got to point even though public lands some decided certain areas were 'theirs' and a few shoot outs happened and i know one was killed when two groups clashed in a very remote area.

 

[Amish Heart]

Sounds like it's big business!
I am remembering at our dinky farmers mkt, there was one seller that brought his own scale for produce because he was selling by the lb. Of course, not certified. I have a couple at home I use when canning. The amish lady across the road that sells produce has a hanging scale. I think people around here would go nuts if it had to be exact. If you complained, they'd probably throw another tomato in the bag for ya.
We do more trade then anything around here. Doesn't have to be even, catch you next time. I love to be the recipient of a few dz peanut butter cookies because I gave three dz eggs. We had an amish worker/handiman here for a couple of weeks doing updates and repairs. Just paid him with a check or cash at the end of each week. He wrote on the paper what supplies he had bought, then figured hrs on labor. Added the two. He did good work.

 

[elkhound]

heres one no one has mentioned....gold and silver....have a means to weigh out tiny amounts will be a must if you plan on dealing in precious metals and other rare items.

sorry sourdough little thread drift...hope it dont trigger a political thing from others...its just my example of big black market....lol

once upon a time you get what was called 'shire cards' they were like credit card with very small strands of gold and silver inside them and you could see the strands and they came in grams if i am remember correctly.

theres a black market being set up right now...at least to our govt...its brics system....as part of that and outside of it saudi is setting up its own certified smelting to produce gold and silver bars and coins. to my understanding they lose a huge portion f it in fees sending to europe to be done.

 

[Mountain trapper]

When I sell my hogs I take a couple measurements and estimate the weight and sell based on my estimate. I'm usually pretty accurate. Never had a complaint from a buyer yet. When I take my cattle to the auction yard they go across a state certified scale and are sold based on that weight. When I sell to an individual I usually sell on a per head price. Or, if they go to the butcher they are sold by hanging weight.

 

[Mountain trapper]

theres all kinds of markets....call them grey,black,yellow or underground....i seen with my own eyes...guy with scale buying mushrooms multiple times a week on side of road in a place i use to live....he was armed to the teeth and had shotgun by his side...he kept a brief case full of cash to buy mushrooms from mushroom gatherers....some made $40k a year over 35 years ago....from mushrooms and forest products...highly regulated and licensed too from gatherers themselves.

it got to point even though public lands some decided certain areas were 'theirs' and a few shoot outs happened and i know one was killed when two groups clashed in a very remote area.

We have buyers every year around here buying mushrooms, especially in the spring after a big fire, and huckleberrys. Yes, its a big business. Never heard of a problem though. I don't know if it's regulated or not by the forest service. Even if it is I don't know anyone who bothers with permits. Except that some firewood cutters from out of the area do get wood permits. Some of the bars around here buy both mushrooms and huckleberrys.

 

[Cabin Fever]

Have any experience dealing (buyer or seller) in "BLACK MARKETS"....??

Yes! I bought some Bob Dylan bootleg recordings on the black market. This was a long time ago. I was in my 20s. I hope the statute of limitations has passed for my indiscretion.

 

[d_marsh]

Yes! I bought some Bob Dylan bootleg recordings on the black market. This was a long time ago. I was in my 20s. I hope the statute of limitations has passed for my indiscretion.

I presume they were 8 tracks?

 

[Cabin Fever]

I presume they were 8 tracks?

View attachment 167333

Reel to reel.

 

[Peepaw from Tex]

I plead the 5th.