Illegal Immigrants. Morality, or money?

[Squirtgunsquirter]

Just thinking about what I see on the news regarding illegal immigration. Most of the main stream media blurbs I see, regarding Cali specifically, frame it as a human rights issue, a moral issue.

What is California's main export?

It's actually a bit hard to tell. Looks like computers and software, followed by planes and parts.

"Agriculture is an important sector in California's economy. Farming-related sales more than quadrupled over the past three decades, from $7.3 billion in 1974 to nearly $31 billion in 2004.[182] This increase has occurred despite a 15 percent decline in acreage devoted to farming during the period, and water supply suffering from chronic instability. Factors contributing to the growth in sales-per-acre include more intensive use of active farmlands and technological improvements in crop production.[182] In 2008, California's 81,500 farms and ranches generated $36.2 billion products revenue.[183] In 2011, that number grew to $43.5 billion products revenue.[184] The Agriculture sector accounts for two percent of the state's GDP and employs around three percent of its total workforce.[185] According to the USDA in 2011, the three largest California agricultural products by value were milk and cream, shelled almonds, and grapes.[186]"

A 43.5 billion dollar industry is no joke.

I don't see illegal immigration as a human rights issue, to me it's all about money. But someone is convincing a LOT of people in the US that it's all about human rights.

Here in Wisconsin, a temp agency day laborer makes 8 to 10 bucks an hour, and I am told it can be less if it's an illegal getting paid off the books.

I don't think anyone who has a workforce that would instantly get a possible 30 to 50% pay increase, would be at pains to make that happen. In fact, I would think it would be the exact opposite.

Am I wrong here? Is this more about human rights, and less about keeping a low paid, desperate workforce in line?

This is on my mind a bit more lately, because I am actually dealing with it on a daily basis. (not for long).

So... conspiracy theory? Mine is that someone is doing a bang up job framing illegal immigration as a human rights issue, and the MSM and probably a big chunk of our Government is complicit.

But it's really about keeping them down, keeping that cheap labor flowing. The new business model.

 

[Gazrok]

So... conspiracy theory? Mine is that someone is doing a bang up job framing illegal immigration as a human rights issue, and the MSM and probably a big chunk of our Government is complicit.

How are most of them going to VOTE? (in CA and other states, not exactly difficult for even illegals to vote). In fact, you can easily find videos of them bragging about it.

Therein lies your answer.....

 

[Silent Earth]

Every illegal that CA or the US or the UK takes in and feeds and houses has to be paid for by SOMEONE, Every meal they consume has to be paid for by SOMEONE, Every job they take denies a natural citizen a job, every home they are given is one house less for a needy natural citizen. if you let ten in 100 will come, if you let that 100 in then 1000 will follow, they will be followed by 10,000 then 100,000, then 1,000.000 JUST LIKE EUROPE. The UK has taken in over 6 million people in the last 15 years into a country about the same size as Kansas. Who is going to PAY? Higher TAXES? more CRIME, more SEGREGATION etc Eventually you get to the stage where resources run out, taxes cannot be raised but they still demand to be fed............. so which one of YOUR family is going to miss a meal so an illegal can eat.

 

[lonewolf]

illegal immigrants are ILLEGAL, pure and simple, anyone who comes here or the US "under the radar" should be sent back to where they came from IMMEDIATELY without appeal, not to the last country they came from but their place of origin.

 

[Squirtgunsquirter]

Yeah, but the guy who was working before at my job, was here illegally for over 15 years! Blows my mind. As someone who is pretty well travelled, I know of no other country where I could go do that, unless I was literally hiding in a forest somewhere.

 

[Gazrok]

I really have no sympathy for someone who was here for a decade or more, and simply "never got around to it" for citizenship.

 

[drt4lfe]

Build the Wall. Put up plenty of Machinegun towers and let the lead fly.....Illegal is Illegal.....stay and make your own Country better or follow the Law and do it right....

 

[lonewolf]

people come here illegally, they can simply come here on a tourist visa and just never go back, they go to places like Birmingham or London where there are immigrant communities and just simply disappear in the "black" economy and never appear on official systems.

 

[Mountain trapper]

Just being here illegally makes them criminals and they should be treated as criminals. They have no Rights here. I don't care how long they've been here, how old they are, or if they were brought here as babies, every single illegal alien should be deported. No exceptions. Any employer who hires an illegal alien should be severely fined or face jail time. And absolutely no government hand outs should ever go to an illegal. Take away their incentive for coming here, or staying here, and most will self deport. We've been too generous and too tolerant for far too long. Time to take out the trash.

 

[Silent Earth]

Just being here illegally makes them criminals and they should be treated as criminals. They have no Rights here. I don't care how long they've been here, how old they are, or if they were brought here as babies, every single illegal alien should be deported. No exceptions. Any employer who hires an illegal alien should be severely fined or face jail time. And absolutely no government hand outs should ever go to an illegal. Take away their incentive for coming here, or staying here, and most will self deport. We've been too generous and too tolerant for far too long. Time to take out the trash.

And there lies the problem AD, YOu are using simple unbridled COMMON SENSE, do you know anyone running the US who also uses common sense? ...... Naa thought not your leaders are as bad as ours.

 

[Gazrok]

If you really want to remove the impetus to come, it's even simpler than that.

ELIMINATE INSTANT CITIZENSHIP BY BIRTH...

It's an INCORRECT interpretation of the Constitution in the first place. It clearly states that in order to be born a citizen, a baby's parents must be beholden (i.e. citizens) of the state.

If you are born here, and your parents are US citizens. So are you. If they aren't, then guess what, neither are you.

 

[Gazrok]

people come here illegally, they can simply come here on a tourist visa and just never go back

true enough, which is why a wall is a waste of money.

Of course, even with a wall, no reason we should pay for it. Easy solution....$10% surcharge on any wire transfers to Mexico. Wall paid for in no time flat.

 

[Kevin L]

One question:

What about undocumented immigrants who served in the military?

One guy came here illegally with his family when he was a kid, he served in the Marines, was badly wounded, got medals, and now they want to deport him back to Mexico, and he can't get help from the VA.

 

[Mountain trapper]

One question:

What about undocumented immigrants who served in the military?

One guy came here illegally with his family when he was a kid, he served in the Marines, was badly wounded, got medals, and now they want to deport him back to Mexico, and he can't get help from the VA.

If they are here illegally then they need to be deported. No exceptions. Why should this guy be treated any different than the ******* who came here to pick fruit?

 

[Kevin L]

If they are here illegally then they need to be deported. No exceptions. Why should this guy be treated any different than the ******* who came here to pick fruit?

Because of the sacrifices he made for this country.

Illegal immigrants can, evidentally, serve in the military.

If they serve with honor, then they should, maybe, be an exception to deportation.

 

[bill harrell]

As long as there are exceptions to a rule, there are no rules. Hence ,the English language. People will always find a way to call a gray area fair game.

 

[Kevin L]

As long as there are exceptions to a rule, there are no rules. Hence ,the English language. People will always find a way to call a gray area fair game.

I understand the importance of rules, but I always think that there are grey areas, and sometimes there are intelligent exceptions.

For example, the law says that it's an absolute that one shouldn't drive drunk.

So, I get a 911 call for a heart attack (I was a paramedic). A woman got drunk in a bar, and her boyfriend (who was the designated driver, and sober) was driving them home late at night in a remote area.

Sure enough, he gets crushing chest pain radiating down his left arm, and manages to pull over before he loses consciousness.

Their cell phones don't work in this remote area because it's out of range of the towers (this is in the 1990s).

So, having no other options, she switches places with him and drives drunk until she flags down a cop...and gets a DWI.

Me, personally?

I don't think she should have been charged.

 

[bill harrell]

Good reason for a drunk to kill my kids. To save their own life. Hmmmmm. Naw not feeling it.

 

[Gazrok]

What about undocumented immigrants who served in the military?

One guy came here illegally with his family when he was a kid, he served in the Marines, was badly wounded, got medals, and now they want to deport him back to Mexico, and he can't get help from the VA.

Personally, to quote Starship Troopers....Service = Citizenship (to me).

I think there is certainly some room to make exceptions. I do have to wonder though, just how an illegal gets into the military without a SSN, etc. I think we may not be getting the full story on that case example.

Personally, I'm all for a well-defined "Path to citizenship" for those who are already here....providing they don't have criminal pasts (and by this, I mean violent crimes, not parking tickets and other such revenue getting nonsense). Why? Simple.... COST. It's CHEAPER for us, the taxpayer, to have a path to citizenship, than it is to detain, process, and repatriate illegals.

 

[Silent Earth]

Britain France and Spain used to have citizenship through military service schemes but i think the only the French and Spanish still use the Foreign Legionaire route.

 

[Kevin L]

Personally, to quote Starship Troopers....Service = Citizenship (to me).

I think there is certainly some room to make exceptions. I do have to wonder though, just how an illegal gets into the military without a SSN, etc. I think we may not be getting the full story on that case example.

Personally, I'm all for a well-defined "Path to citizenship" for those who are already here....providing they don't have criminal pasts (and by this, I mean violent crimes, not parking tickets and other such revenue getting nonsense). Why? Simple.... COST. It's CHEAPER for us, the taxpayer, to have a path to citizenship, than it is to detain, process, and repatriate illegals.

I don't disagree with you 100%.

I just believe that there are exceptions to every rule, and they need to be intelligently interpreted.

 

[Gazrok]

Thing is, with law, you need to be very SPECIFIC.

When it comes to rights, you need to not only be very specific, but also specify how to GAIN, RESTORE, REVOKE, etc. such rights, and dot all your I's, and cross all the T's....

Problem is, too many liberal congressman draft bills that are vague as hell. So, they get voted down, EVEN if the opposition agrees with some basic points.

THEN, the left gets all hot and bothered blaming the right for not passing their wishy washy unclear bill, that leaves WAY too much room for misinterpretation in the first place.

The two pending "Assault Weapons Ban" bills in the Senate and House, are PRIME examples of this vagueness.

They do the same thing with any kind of laws regarding immigration and "illegals"

 

[Kevin L]

I see and get your point...sort of.

It seems that a lot of people believe that laws are a substitute for good leadership.

If you have bad, corrupt leadership, then all the laws in the world won't fix anything.

On the other hand, strong, intelligent leaders don't need super-specific, all exclusive, do or don't do laws.

If we have corrupt leaders, then all the laws in the world won't fix anything.

 

[bill harrell]

And therein lies the problem

 

[Mountain trapper]

That's the problem with the entire western civilized world: too many exceptions, too many loopholes and too damn tolerant. Why bother with rules or laws when everyone is going to demand an exception to that rule or law? Every ******* (illegal alien) is going to have a sob story that pulls at the heart strings to the bleeding hearts. Deport every single illegal. Then cut out the incentives that draw them here.

 

[Gazrok]

Again, it's a matter of cost. It's easy to say "deport them all"....but it is a completely different matter to actually make that happen, and then assess/repair the cost of that action.

Instead, the easier (and more cost effective) solution is to remove the incentives.

THEN, concentrate on deporting the actual trouble makers (repeat criminals, violent offenders, etc.) FIRST.

As for those already integrated, but still illegal...make them choose, become legal (through a defined path), or be deported. Give it a deadline, and involve fees, fines, benefits, consequences, etc. to work.