Liquid fuel vs Propane

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Waldog

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Liquid fuel vs. propane bottles for lanterns and cook stoves

I just thought I’d throw in my two-cents worth. I have noticed on most prepper websites there is a general disdain for “white-gas” lanterns and cook stoves. I have been using Coleman lanterns and stoves for decades. I truly believe that liquid fuel light and cook sources are a better option for prepping. Here’s my reasons why:

1) A double mantle Coleman gas lantern will provide you with about 40 hours of BRIGHT light per gallon of gas. If you need light 4 hours per day, one gallon will work for 10 days. Cost at Walmart is $14.00 for one gallon of Crown White Gas Camp Fuel or Coleman Fuel. One gallon of gas for a 2 burner Coleman gas stove will provide about the same time. In order to achieve 40 hours of operation with 1 lb. propane bottles, that will require a case of 6 bottles at a cost of $52.00. Often, both Walmart, AND Amazon are sold out! Propane lanterns and stoves are easier to light but, much less effective when they are operated in cold temperatures. White gas is slightly different to light, not harder, just different. And, white gas is not effected by cold temperatures. One other positive note is that Coleman gas lanterns put out a LOT of heat!

2) Many people will be concerned about carbon monoxide Anything that burns is going to give off CO. The there will be no difference in CO between propane and gas lanterns and stoves. Millions of homes have gas cooking ranges that are used daily with no ill effect. You just have to use common sense. When I was kid, we had a power outage that lasted about 4 days. My Dad got out Coleman lantern and stove to use in our house. The lantern was shuffled between the living room and kitchen while cooking. Although inconvenient, we had plenty of light and hot food. No one got sick or suffered with CO due to the sized of the house and limited daily use.

3) The older Coleman lanterns and stoves are a MUCH HIGHER QUALITY than what is available new. I have found good serviceable lanterns and stoves at garage sales and antique shops. I have purchased lanterns and stoves on eBay that were reasonably priced and just like new. HOWEVER, over the last few years the prices on Coleman Lanterns has skyrocketed! A run-of-the-mill Coleman 220 Lantern used to cost about $20. Now, they are selling for $50+ with some collectible ones selling for several hundred dollars. Coleman gas stoves are still pretty reasonable as most people want propane. I outfitted all three of my kids families with multiple lanterns and stoves for their prepper/camping needs. My son-in-law wanted nothing to do with a gas lanterns, He felt they were dangerous and outdated, UNTIL my daughter used hers on a desert camping trip. Now, he uses that lantern all the time and really likes it. He doesn’t have to deal with empty propane bottles and 1 gallon of Crown Fuel take up a lot less space.

4) Solar is wonderful but costly and bulky compared to gas lanterns. I use solar on some of my HAM equipment.
 
Have you done any reasearch on how long white gas in a sealed can will keep? I have enough propane to cook on for the bibical seven years and I am confident it will still be good.
Another consideration is my 50 year old SEVA back packing stove.. As I remember some were supposed to be able to burn pump gas. I guess I need to dig it out and give it a try.
 
Propane and solar are used mostly where I live. Our stove/oven in our kitchen is a full sized propane stove. Solar fridges and freezers are also common. Most amish homes have propane lighting installed in the ceilings, but they put out heat, so not favored in the summertime. LED lanterns are used, and are solar charged in the summer.
 
Both have their advantages, propane in small quantities is expensive. coleman stoves should be able to be modified to run on pump premium, might not be as clean but If I had one I would look into it.
 
Have you done any reasearch on how long white gas in a sealed can will keep? I have enough propane to cook on for the bibical seven years and I am confident it will still be good.
Another consideration is my 50 year old SEVA back packing stove.. As I remember some were supposed to be able to burn pump gas. I guess I need to dig it out and give it a try.
Shelf Life of Coleman® Fuel (White Gas or Crown Camp Fuel))
According to Coleman, an un-opened container of Coleman® Fuel stored in a dry area with no rapid extreme changes in temperature will remain viable up to seven years. An opened container stored in the same area will remain viable for up to two years though will be at its best if used within a year. I have personally used an open can of Coleman fuel that was at least 10 years old with no problems. Be advised that there have been reports of 15 year old, and older, being perfectly usable. I personally have used fuel that is 15 years old from an unopened can, and it was perfectly viable. I have several original SVEA back pack stoves and I have never heard that you could burn regular pump gas. Be mindful that pump gas has at least 10% alcohol added and that reduces the life of the gas considerably. (It is also the reason people have trouble with their lawn mowers, chainsaws, and any gas operated seasonal equipment) Regular pump gas will work in Coleman products but it will eventually clog the generator and the lamp or stove would quit working. The SVEA stove uses a cotton wick to draw fuel into the generator. I'm guessing, but don't know for sure, that regular gas will eventually give you problems in SVEA type stoves. (Besides, orginal SVEA stoves are collectable, LOL!) Coleman® Propane Cylinders can be stored indefinitely in a dry area. The propane fuel inside the cylinder will not break down. If the bottles are rusted and punctured, they will, of course, loose pressure.
 
No mention of kerosene?
It was lighting up our world and heating rooms long before the other 2 became popular.
It is still used and sold today.
I know people that have kerosene lamps and heaters.
$25 runs for 36 hours :oops::
71BM2zO4bzL._AC_SX522_.jpg


23,800 BTU's 12-hour runtime:
71QrXj2CVyL._AC_SX679_.jpg

(I know, off topic:(, let the spankings begin)
 
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I have both propane and white gas Coleman lanterns and stoves. I also have adaptors to use 20# bottles. This way I can use whatever is available. I also have candles, candle making supplies, kerosene lamps, and oil lamps. I have spare wicks and mantles.
 
No mention of kerosene?
It was lighting up our world and heating rooms long before the other 2 became popular.
It is still used and sold today.
I know people that have kerosene lamps and heaters.
$25 runs for 36 hours :oops::
71BM2zO4bzL._AC_SX522_.jpg


23,800 BTU's 12-hour runtime:
71QrXj2CVyL._AC_SX679_.jpg

(I know, off topic:(, let the spankings begin)
Most of my liquid fuel is Kerosene. Many gallons. Some white gas, some propane, but kerosene rocks. Heaters, lanterns, stoves, etc etc
 
No mention of kerosene?
It was lighting up our world and heating rooms long before the other 2 became popular.
It is still used and sold today.
I know people that have kerosene lamps and heaters.
$25 runs for 36 hours :oops::

I love kerosene lamps as well. Actually, kerosene pressure lamps are my favorite. Always use 1-K grade Kerosene. It should be labeled “water-clear” or “Pearl-clear”. Stay away from red-dye (taxed) kerosene. Never use “lamp oil” or “paraffin oil”. One of the nice benefits of kerosene, it is much less flammable than white gas and has excellent long term storage characteristics. Pressurized kerosene lamps, like Coleman model 237, or 639 and the European Petromax lanterns put out about 400 watts of equivalent electric light. That’s BRIGHT!! For non-pressurized lamps, check out “Aladdin” kerosene lamps. They put out about the same light as a 60 watt electric bulb. They burn about 3 oz of kerosene an hour.
 
Shelf Life of Coleman® Fuel (White Gas or Crown Camp Fuel))
According to Coleman, an un-opened container of Coleman® Fuel stored in a dry area with no rapid extreme changes in temperature will remain viable up to seven years. An opened container stored in the same area will remain viable for up to two years though will be at its best if used within a year. I have personally used an open can of Coleman fuel that was at least 10 years old with no problems. Be advised that there have been reports of 15 year old, and older, being perfectly usable. I personally have used fuel that is 15 years old from an unopened can, and it was perfectly viable. I have several original SVEA back pack stoves and I have never heard that you could burn regular pump gas. Be mindful that pump gas has at least 10% alcohol added and that reduces the life of the gas considerably. (It is also the reason people have trouble with their lawn mowers, chainsaws, and any gas operated seasonal equipment) Regular pump gas will work in Coleman products but it will eventually clog the generator and the lamp or stove would quit working. The SVEA stove uses a cotton wick to draw fuel into the generator. I'm guessing, but don't know for sure, that regular gas will eventually give you problems in SVEA type stoves. (Besides, orginal SVEA stoves are collectable, LOL!) Coleman® Propane Cylinders can be stored indefinitely in a dry area. The propane fuel inside the cylinder will not break down. If the bottles are rusted and punctured, they will, of course, loose pressure.
You have to understand when I last used a svea stove gasahol wasn't even dreamt of by agri buisness. One svea I had had a cool little cleaner that would come up and clean the burner when you turned it all the way on before lighting it.
Collectable stove? and I bet it wasn't mae in china either.
 
NO I understand gasahol wasn't even thought of when the SVEA was around. The ones that are collectable are the ones that had a tiny pin cleaner attached to the end of the adjustment key. The ones that had the pin attached to the valve came later. And, your right they weren't made in China. They were made in Sweden. My "Collector" came new in the box with all the instructions and I paid $5 for it at a garage sale. I do know that a China company started making them again a few years back. They're not bad and work well. I outfitted all three of my kids with SVEA stoves for their backpack trips. Love that little SEVA. They have been all over the world from Mt Everest to Death Valley and never let people down. They just worked. (BTW, I collect Coleman lanterns and Primus style stoves. The Primus stoves burn kerosene and are still very popular in India and Africa. They work very similar to the SVEA.)
 
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Just a side note about using pump gas in SVEA type stoves: If you may have to go there or want to give it a try… use rec fuel that is ethanol free.

https://rec90gas.com/what-is-rec-fu...awbacks-of-this-popular-gasoline-alternative/

And a thought about liquid fuel storage in general: It will save better in large quantities and in sealed containers with little or no oxygen. Once oxygen is introduced… put remaining fuel in smaller tightly sealed cans when storing for longer periods of time.
 
Most of my liquid fuel is Kerosene. Many gallons. Some white gas, some propane, but kerosene rocks. Heaters, lanterns, stoves, etc etc
Try out jet fuel or turbine fuel. There is minimal difference between that and Kerosene. You should be able to find it at a pump at a small airport.
 
I wouldn't buy a bunch of 1 lb propane bottles. I'd buy a 20 lb (standard size) propane tank and an adapter hose.

You can get filled "Blue Rhino" propane tanks for $19 if you trade them an empty tank. Just take any old rusted, out-of-date tank in as your "trade". They accept those just fine, I've done it many times. Our local propane dealer says to do exactly that. Don't buy a new tank, just trade Blue Rhino an old unusable one - they're everywhere - if you don't already have one, a neighbor will probably give you one of their old ones from an ancient BBQ grill. Blue Rhino fills their tanks maybe 3/4 to 4/5 full, so add another $3 to top it off at your local propane filling place. An adapter hose will run you about $15. So you're at about $40 total for 20 lbs of propane as opposed to the $52 for 6 lbs originally mentioned. And after that first cash outlay you don't have to buy a new adapter or tank every time. You can get your setup refilled over and over again at a propane place for about $1 per lb. So your steady state cost is $1 per lb using a tank/adapter as opposed to $9 per lb using the canisters.

Another problem with liquid fuels besides the CO already mentioned, is spills. Those are much harder to clean up (if you're crazy enough to be doing this inside). Propane connection leaks are not common if you can manage to screw a connector on correctly. And if they do leak, it's usually a pinhole leak of very low volume - probably not enough concentration after dispersal in the air to support ignition (unless you hold a match right next to the leak).

All this being said, I have both propane powered stoves and white gas stoves, with fuel for each of them (I would use the propane ones first). I have one propane lantern and a whole bunch of LED battery lanterns. I also have alcohol powered burners (Trangia) and "Heat" (yellow) to fuel those. If push comes to shove, I could use the Traeger pellet grill too, but I would need a small amount of electricity to drive that - I'd pull the battery out of a car and use a small 100w inverter to turn that to the 120vac that the grill needs. I can't imagine that grill uses anywhere near 100w except during start-up ignition (just don't use that function and light things with some charcoal lighter fluid and a match - slightly inconvenient, but it would work).
 
Propane is pretty cost-effective in bulk.

Liquid fuels like Kero and White Oil are great in small portable lanterns and stoves.

It is best to have both.
I agree, propane is a liquid when filled, that will freeze your fingers.
Never buy from a change store Like blue rhino, they cheap you, by not filling the tanks full.
Take you tank to a Hardware store, 40 pound is better, but 20 pound will do, then buy a refill adapter for the one pound tank.
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=1+lb+pro...648728&tag=googhydr-20&ref=pd_sl_9svudw5umh_e
 
Another problem with liquid fuels besides the CO already mentioned, is spills. Those are much harder to clean up (if you're crazy enough to be doing this inside). Propane connection leaks are not common if you can manage to screw a connector on correctly. And if they do leak, it's usually a pinhole leak of very low volume - probably not enough concentration after dispersal in the air to support ignition (unless you hold a match right next to the leak).
CO is a threat with all open flames. CO is the product of incomplete combustion. If you have a good burner and adequate oxygen there is little CO produced. In a tight area any flame will eat the available O2. Reduced levels of O2 will generate ever greater output of CO. Your blood has a much greater affinity for CO, than it does for O2.

The first dead body call, where I was the medic in charge, was a guy that was heating his living space with a Coleman stove. It was a white gas stove but the problem was that he had no ventilation, the stove ate the available O2, and between the lack of O2 and the abundance of CO he didn’t make it. Propane would have had the same outcome. I have had my CO detector go off from a propane flame.
 
I've been an avid Coleman collector for years. Even converted a few lanterns and stoves to run on regular pump gas. Some gas stations around here actually have non ethenol gas. Just have to look for it. Parts are plentiful and easy to find. Old Coleman Parts is a great place to start. If they don't have it than it doesn't exist. Done business with them for years. Prices are reasonable and quick shipping.
 
I was given about 20 or so old 20lb tanks to make into HOBO stoves but traded most of them in for filled Blue Rhino tanks to store.. Most grocery store stock people never checked tank dates.. However most refill places did even though the propane was cheaper.. I could always get plenty of scrap tanks to make HOBO stoves out of..

We had a big 3 burner camp grill, BBQ grill, a couple turkey fryer burners, and our portable generator was duel fuel with propane..
 
CO is a threat with all open flames. CO is the product of incomplete combustion. If you have a good burner and adequate oxygen there is little CO produced. In a tight area any flame will eat the available O2. Reduced levels of O2 will generate ever greater output of CO. Your blood has a much greater affinity for CO, than it does for O2.

The first dead body call, where I was the medic in charge, was a guy that was heating his living space with a Coleman stove. It was a white gas stove but the problem was that he had no ventilation, the stove ate the available O2, and between the lack of O2 and the abundance of CO he didn’t make it. Propane would have had the same outcome. I have had my CO detector go off from a propane flame.
We have had snow storm with no heat in the city & someone brings in a cheap charcoal grill to heat the home & dies in their sleep, sometime it is a whole family. This problem should be taught in school.
 
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We have had snow storm with no heat in the city & someone rings in a cheap charcoal grill to heat the home & dies in their sleep, sometime it is a whole family. This problem should be taught in school.
This is true. You must allow stupid people to take themselves out of the gene-pool.
Similar happens down here when a hurricane blows thru...
Way more people die from c-monoxide from generators, than from the actual storm. :(
People should be aware of this when they bring a device (any fuel) into their tent to 'sleep warm'.
 

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