Natural gas in a shtf world

[Allen]

How long do you think natural gas would stay on in a shtf scenario.The reason I ask is if you had a fridge,stove,heater,and water heater how long could it possible stay on.

 

[old_anorak]

I have no earthly clue. Do you have service when the power is out now?

 

[Allen]

Don't know yet Haven't been with out power yet.I was just curious if it was possible

 

[old_anorak]

I was giving your question a good poke in my mind while baking today and it seems to me that if you don't have the gas well on your place and have the means to control the output, then the plant safety protocols would go into effect and shut everything down. There is a natural gas plant? don't know what you call it, about 5 miles from where I went to school as a kid and I can remember watching them burning the excess as it came up out of the ground. Scared me to death then and I'm still not too comfortable with it now.

 

[Trapper]

If you cant control it don't depend that you will have it. With natural gas you are at the mercy of who ever controls the switch. At least with an LP barrel you would have some reserve. It all depends on the size of the tank and how full its kept. I have an LP tank and keep it on the keep full plan. It gets filled about every 60 days in the winter and goes about 4 months during the summer. If the tank is full I have about a 6 month supply for heat and the hot water heater. I need electric to run those appliances though. I could run them off from a generator over the short term. Gasoline would be the next problem.

 

[old_anorak]

Very true Trapper. If it's controlled by someone else, chances are you'll be doing without.

 

[Wiredog8]

How long do you think natural gas would stay on in a shtf scenario.The reason I ask is if you had a fridge,stove,heater,and water heater how long could it possible stay on.

I have been in the oilfield for the past 20 years. I test gas and oil wells for a living. As for the wells being "shut off", if the pressure in the pipeline increases or decreases by a set pressure range the automated emergency safety systems (ESD) will trip and close a pneumatic valve on the well head. If you have a pressure rated cylinder or build a pipe line capable of containing the pressure safely, there would be no " shortage " of supply. But I would not suggest attempting unless you know what you are doing. The potential for loss of limb and life are just too great.

Problems that you will encounter with natural gas (NatGas):
1. Natural gas ( lighter than air/ has no smell unless H2S present ) is composed of many different gases. IE: methane, n-butane, propane, ethane,nitrogen, carbon dioxide,isobutane,
n-pentane, isopentane, hexanes plus.
NatGas is NOT the same as "pure" propane.
If you have propane burning appliances, you are using a "propane" orifice which directs the gas flow ( on average at the pressure no greater than four ounces by volume ) into the burner at the proper air/gas ratio for a proper burn. IE: BTU's. Prorer air/gas ratio is acheived you see a solid blue flame with flecks of red/orange at the tips.
One would need to aquire the orifices for natural gas and make the conversions befor you could use NatGas properly and with good results.
2. Propane is separated from the NatGas at the refineries and an odorant is added so that you can smell the gas.
It would be nearly imposible to acheive this process by the average person.
3. Hydrogen Sulfide Gas ( H2S): H2S gas is very dangerouse for a variety of reasons as listed below:
A. Heavier than air. Specific gravity : 1.18 Air specific gravity: 1.0 H2S displaces air in low areas, inside containers and can even be found in deep or confined excavations or sewers.
B. H2s smells like rotten eggs in low concentrations. In Higher concentrations it will numb out your olfactory organ, causing you to not be able to smell it.
C. At higher concentrations the enevitable results are death.
See chart below.

H2S Toxicity Scale

Concentration: Parts per million ( PPM )/Effects
1-10 ppm /Offensive smell ( rotten eggs) Safe to work in for 8 hours with no extra breathing assisting equipment.
100 ppm/ Kills smell in 3-5 minutes. May sting eyes and irritate throat, cause headaches.
HAZARDOUS LEVELS (200-600 PPM)
200 ppm/Kills smell rapidly. May cause headaches, stinging eyes, irritated throat, dizzyness.
500 ppm/Affects ability to reason and balance. Resiratory paralysis in minutes. Administer prompt artificial respiration.
LEATHAL LEVELS ( 600 ppm and above )
700 ppm/Rapid loss of consciousness. Cessation of breathing. DEATH.
1000 ppm/Immediate loss of consciousness. Permanent brain damage. DEATH.


10,000 ppm = 1.0%
1,000 ppm = 0.1%
100 ppm = 0.01%
10 ppm = 0.001%
1 ppm = 0.0001%


So as you can see by the charts, there are some intense potentials that one must consider before attempting to undertake " appropriating" gas from an abandond/ shut in well.
Hope this helps.

 

[jimLE]

i've thought of this my self.but not to the extent that wiredog has pointed out.one idea i've thought of,is to have tanks the size of the ones on the propane trucks that deliver the propane.the one that delivers to us holds up to 2200 gallons.now if a person could have up to 6 to 10 of them and keep them filled some how..then they have propane for a few years.other route i've thought of,is go solar power and every thing except for stove/overn and/or heater.go all electric.and have back up stove/oven and heater that run off of electric for when shtf happens..

 

[Trapper]

Jim,
Getting that much LP would be cost prohibitive just getting the tanks much less the fuel. It would be easier and cheaper to go completely off grid with solar and wind power first. Then for backup have wood heat and cooking. Depending on where you live that would could be an issue also. If I had the resources and could build again that is exactly what I would do.

 

[jimLE]

yeah thats true.and thats why i wouldnt go with that route with the propane..going with completely off grid with solar and wind power is the better route if money is had..pluse one of the water heaters that only runs when hot water is running..

 

[WILD MAN]

I'm no natural gas expert (the wife might argue that point since we had beans for supper last night) but in pretty much every disaster I’ve ever seen on the news the gas lines are broken and fires rage out of control, so IMO natural gas is pretty much useless in a SHTF scenario. We have a large LP tank (maybe 500gal) behind the house that the gas company fills every few months and I have four 100lb tanks for back up if they can’t get here due to weather or something I actually had to use one about six years ago during a snow storm, but like Trapper said your at the mercy of the gas company and once it’s gone it’s gone time to break out the box wood stove and start chopping wood.

 

[Wiredog8]

Storage of fuel in that quantity would be cost prohibitive on many levels JimLE. First and foremost would be the cost of the tankers themselves. Secondly the fuel to fill them. Thirdly the facilities to store the full tankers securely. But in my opinion the most prohibitive expense would be the insurance needed to store that much combustable material, and you would probably need a government license of some sort. Big can of worms.

 

[jimLE]

yeah thats why i wont..even if i could aford to.i still wouldnt..