OPSEC, Give them a sandwich and they'll ask for ...?

[Weedygarden]

I saw this post on a facebook group and thought nothing could speak to the OPSEC issue that has been mentioned many times like this does. This is not a big deal, but just wait until we are in serious times.

 

[Terri9630]

I never give cash. I've given food and hygiene items to a couple of people in town that I know are homeless but never cash.

 

[The Lazy L]

Our Church and Parsonage are on a main road. Pastor told me of a late night door bell ringer. Man was hitchhiking to a job interview up north, out of food and out of money. Pastor fed him and came him some cash. A week later the same man was at the door ring the door bell. He was now headed back south to home, out of food and out of money, expecting another hand out. Word evidently gets out that our Pastor is a soft touch. All hours of the day more door ringers with their hands out.

A family pulls up just before church starts. Husband? remains in the driver's seat as the Wife? jumps out, enters the church and asks for the Pastor. Pastor is found and the Wife asks for gas money. Pastor finds the Treasurer, Treasurers gives the Wife a $20 from the Treasurer's own wallet. Service starts late.

Church Board at the Pastor's and Treasurer's request approves opening an account at the local gas station and grocery store. Church will direct "people in need" to either the gas station or grocery store. Church will call ahead, tell the station/grocery that a person will be stopping and they are approved to charge and $X amount to the church. About 75% of the "people in need" will not arrive at station/grocery! They wanted cash!!!!

Pastor attends the monthly meeting of the area's Pastors and the subject of "people in need" comes up. Appears that when one church wises up or cuts a person(s) off that person just goes to another church. They make their rounds and are doing pretty good for themselves! Pastors organize a community food bank. Now all "people in need" are directed to the food bank. A few "people in need" try to take advantage (limits on how much and how often are put in place) and complain about the selection.

 

[Sentry18]

We do not have a very large transient population, but we do have some and they love to camp at on ramps and off ramps with signs pleading for food, money, etc. The wife and her church group once made up some kits for people in that situation. They were large zip lock freezer bags containing things like a bottle of water, bottle of powerade, protein bars, granola bars, some gum and candy, small package of wet wipes, sample size deodorant and other toiletries, some samples of ibuprofen and acetaminophen, a few band-aids with antibiotic ointment, pair of socks, bandana, small roll of duct tape and a tube of super glue. They also had some printed materials in them. Most of the items were donations, but some things were purchased. They made up over 100 of these kits and volunteers would keep them in their cars. When they would see someone in need they would offer them a package of supplies. Time and time again they would refuse the kits or ask if there was any cash in them. There were indeed some people who were very happy to receive a kit, but they were few and far between. Through the course of that summer they went through the kits, but it was like giving away NRA stickers at the DNC convention. A few takers but mostly turned up noses.

 

[Weedygarden]

I see people on corners with signs asking for money. I never roll down my window and give anyone money. I do want to ask what their drug of choice is, but it is most likely heroine or alcohol. It could be meth or crack cocaine. It doesn't really matter, because when I see people on the corner, I know that there are day labor places that they can go and work any day of the week.

A sign that says "Hungry" or "Family is hungry", same story. There are food banks. There are multiple places to get a meal 3 times a day, 7 days a week for free.

But back to my original post: if you hand out anything, you are a soft touch and an easy mark. Driving around and handing out to people is safer than going into your house, making a sandwich and bringing it out.

I know it is biblical to feed the hungry. Matthew 25:35 - 40.

I know someone here has said that they donate to their church and the church feeds people. That is a safer way to go, isn't it?

 

[Caribou]

We were in town when from the wife's side of the car I hear "NOOO! YOU'RE NOT GIVING HIM ANY MONEY." Then I saw the sign "need money for booze." All these years later I can't decide whether she or he was funnier. Neither seemed to be intending humor.

 

[Terri9630]

We were in town when from the wife's side of the car I hear "NOOO! YOU'RE NOT GIVING HIM ANY MONEY." Then I saw the sign "need money for booze." All these years later I can't decide whether she or he was funnier. Neither seemed to be intending humor.

At least he was honest.

 

[Sentry18]

I know someone here has said that they donate to their church and the church feeds people. That is a safer way to go, isn't it?

We have an 'association' where almost all of the local churches, the municipality, the county, the colleges, some social groups and some civic groups partner to provide free vouchers for those in need. Vouchers can be obtained at any law enforcement agency (and no where else). We have vouchers for everything from meals, bus tickets, vehicle repairs, gasoline, hotel rooms, clothing, etc. But they have to provide identification or provide a name and allow their photo & fingerprints to be taken to collect vouchers. The vouchers have regulations on how many and how often, none are redeemable for cash.

Area churches also work together to provide a free meal 2 nights a week at former cafeteria now owned by one of the churches. You come for a free hot meal and you leave with a box full of food to get you through the next few days.

 

[Amish Heart]

If they don't have an ID, they can't get a voucher? Why the photo and fingerprints? Are they run through the database to see if they are criminals?

 

[Sentry18]

If they don't have an ID, they can't get a voucher? Why the photo and fingerprints? Are they run through the database to see if they are criminals?

No ID or photo/prints, no voucher. Much of the time a photo or fingerprints will give us their true identity, but not always. Doing so cuts way down on abuse and ensures that only the truly needy are getting them. Plus their names are printed on the vouchers, which are non-transferable, so they can't sell them to another transient.

Everyone who encounters an LEO around here is run through a database. We have to keep records of everything we do for both administrative and liability purposes. Checking them for Wants & Warrants is just a side benefit. They hit often too, but usually for small stuff from different parts of the country that are not willing to extradite.

 

[snappy1]

We have an 'association' where almost all of the local churches, the municipality, the county, the colleges, some social groups and some civic groups partner to provide free vouchers for those in need. Vouchers can be obtained at any law enforcement agency (and no where else). We have vouchers for everything from meals, bus tickets, vehicle repairs, gasoline, hotel rooms, clothing, etc. But they have to provide identification or provide a name and allow their photo & fingerprints to be taken to collect vouchers. The vouchers have regulations on how many and how often, none are redeemable for cash.

Area churches also work together to provide a free meal 2 nights a week at former cafeteria now owned by one of the churches. You come for a free hot meal and you leave with a box full of food to get you through the next few days.

Where I'm from in FL we have (or had, I haven't been there in 15 years) Manatee Religious Services. They were an umbrella or clearing house for almost all churches in the area. That way, the Church would send the person asking for help to MRS and they would be screened to make sure they really needed help and weren't just jumping from Church to Church for hand outs. MRS kept records and that was before computers, too. MRS also helped with electric payments, deposits and water hook ups, I think, also rent in some cases. Can't remember what else they did (was a volunteer) but the Churches donated to them instead of handing out individually. I think they did a lot of good!

 

[joel]

I give them nothing, I do my part by making sure I, my wife & children are not homeless & begging for food.
I like helping people who are having a hard time, but are working & trying to make ends meet.
I have made loans to persons, most of the time they repay, a few do not, but they stay away so it worth $40.00 or so.

 

[Peanut]

I’m remember one guy I tried to give money to for month. The were 2 one-way streets through a park by Anderson hosp in Houston. I only saw him up close once, afterwards he was always on the other street.

He was homeless and had a grocery cart with his possessions in it. On the front of the cart was a sign that read “Guest House”.

 

[Patchouli]

Leaving church one day, a man and a little kid standing next corner up with a sign written in much better English and handwriting than I would have ever thought he could muster. "Need $300. Lost apartment." Etc. So we turned around. I got out and started talking to him. He barely spoke English. Adorable child. I said do you need food? No, just $300 because (ramble ramble ramble). I said well what will you do for food for the little one tomorrow, or later today? We are having a lunch right now, you can go to the church and get food. Oh, he declined. So one of my friends was still outside at church and he said "they were users of the goodness of people's hearts. They didn't need $300, but strike me dead if they did. Pretty sure," my friend said, "they don't mean it. His wife and other child are at the other corner with the same sign. They do this everywhere, especially after church on Sundays."
My NH had already given the guy a few dollars. But they didn't want any other help than cold hard cash.

 

[DrPrepper]

We have some "professional" homeless that panhandle at the local Walmart across the street from the hospital. I know they are professional because I've seen them be dropped off and picked up by the same late model king cab truck. They work in shifts, and the same guys relieve each other at the end of their shift. They have been known to come over to the hospital and help themselves to a wheelchair- sitting on the corner in a wheelchair apparently brings them more money. When I am riding over to Walmart on my scooter on my lunch break, it really irritates me that these panhandlers all have smart phones, cigarettes, coolers full of soft drinks, etc. It also irritates me that sometimes they have young kids with them who are not always their kids. One time, as I rode past, the kid was complaining because it was hot and was asking how much longer they were going to sit there because "Daddy promised me that if I stayed here with you today we would have pizza tonight for dinner."

 

[tiffanysgallery]

The city north of me has a law against homelessness and they're strict about this law. If a homeless person comes into town and is caught asking for money in public, they are picked up by the police.

The bigger city south of me has a huge homeless problem. About every corner there's a person asking for money, sometimes two or three on one street. Most are selling something in exchange for money, like papers, or the written word.

I've volunteered working with the homeless and you do get all types and stories. You do tend to feel sorry for them, but when you offer an answer to help them do better, they don't always want to listen. Some homeless are close friends and consider other homeless family so they stick together. It's they're way of life.

My elderly neighbor is a widow and I take hot food over to her occasionally, esp. the holiday's. I've known her for 17 yrs and she has been a real good neighbor.

 

[The Lazy L]

...I know it is biblical to feed the hungry. Matthew 25:35 - 40...

Hungry? Yes!!! Don't want to work? No!!!

"For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat." 2 Thessalonians 3:10

 

[Weedygarden]

We have some "professional" homeless that panhandle at the local Walmart across the street from the hospital. I know they are professional because I've seen them be dropped off and picked up by the same late model king cab truck. They work in shifts, and the same guys relieve each other at the end of their shift. They have been known to come over to the hospital and help themselves to a wheelchair- sitting on the corner in a wheelchair apparently brings them more money. When I am riding over to Walmart on my scooter on my lunch break, it really irritates me that these panhandlers all have smart phones, cigarettes, coolers full of soft drinks, etc. It also irritates me that sometimes they have young kids with them who are not always their kids. One time, as I rode past, the kid was complaining because it was hot and was asking how much longer they were going to sit there because "Daddy promised me that if I stayed here with you today we would have pizza tonight for dinner."

Those are props that help them appeal to people, especially Christians who have just come from church. That is why we all need discernment.

If I needed money or food, there are other ways to get them. How I have ALWAYS gotten money is to have a job, or two, and once in a while, I have worked 3 different jobs at the same time. I have never once put out my hand or held up a sign and asked for money.

 

[VenomJockey]

According to Pess's LEO relatives, many of these so-called "homeless" are semi-professional money moochers, flying signs, panhandling, etc., that it's a good policy to NEVER give cash. Just get them a meal at McDummies, or send them to an area Mission, etc. Many of these people live on the streets by choice, receive Disability checks, and simply would rather spend their checks on booze, cigarettes and drugs, instead of renting a room in a rooming house, etc. BEWARE of anyone actually coming to your DOOR asking for anything...all to often that is just a scouting mission to see if you have anything worth stealing in sight, or for a later "home invasion."

 

[Amish Heart]

We have a man that hangs out at our closest bigger intersection. The spot is "his". Benn there for three years panhandling. Changes his shirt and ball cap a few times a day and keeps his head down. But I know it's the same guy.

 

[Weedygarden]

I may have told this story before. Daughter and I went to California one summer, more than 20 years ago, for a vacation and visiting friends. We were on Hollywood Blvd., in McDonalds, eating lunch. Some guy came up to our table and asked if I would buy him lunch. Sometimes you get caught off guard and don't make wise decisions. I gave him $5 and he headed out the door. He was not interested in lunch. He wanted some drug money and I gave it to him. I considered that a lesson. I think I needed the lesson, as do many people.

 

[Supervisor42]

We have a man that hangs out at our closest bigger intersection. The spot is "his". Been there for three years panhandling. Changes his shirt and ball cap a few times a day and keeps his head down. But I know it's the same guy.

A good one averages over $30,000 per year. Hard to feel sympathy if you know the truth.

I've known a couple of them that had a house and pretty-nice car too.
For many, panhandling is a job.

 

[VenomJockey]

A good one averages over $30,000 per year. Hard to feel sympathy if you know the truth.

I've known a couple of them that had a house and pretty-nice car too.
For many, panhandling is a job.

There is a girl, early 20's, that works a couple intersections on U.S. 90 (Government Blvd), with a baby, and she makes over $1,000 A DAY. Talked to her in Burger King one day, and she made the point that "I can do THIS and work one or two days a week and get a couple thousand dollars, or I can get a job for minimum wage and make $350 a week....no brainer, me and the kid will work the two days, and I make over $100,000 a year. This is my second year, and I've already got an $86,000 house paid for."

Well, folks, what would YOU do? She is dead right...she can make a small fortune working the intersection, or she can work foir McDummies for minimum wage. Hell, with a choice like that, I'LL take the intersection myself!!

 

[lonewolf]

some "homeless" have been known to come down on the train from the city where they have a home to smaller towns, they can make good money especially in places full of tourists.

 

[Sentry18]

They will also send children to do the panhandling for them. I have seen this a few times in places like Costa Rica and Belize.

 

[Weedygarden]

I have been thinking about this overnight, about the original post. Man indicates he is hungry, can the woman help him out? She goes in and makes him a sandwich. Later he comes back and wants $80 to go to Portland.

This is in Denver where there are MULTIPLE places to get a free meal 3 times a day, 7 days a week and not far from where the shelters are. Why is he asking HER for food? There are also multiple food banks in the greater Denver area where people can go and get food. He didn't need to ask her for food.

He may not have really been hungry. He may have trying to get a feel for what he could ultimately get from her. I don't believe his actions are isolated. I' bet there are many people who work people in the area where they "camp." This was probably not the end of this story. I'd bet that when she didn't hand over money, he came back several times, working her for what he could get from her. If she has a home with a yard and garage, he may have even cased the place for what he wanted or could steal to sell for a few bucks here and there.

On the other hand, if she had averted her eyes, not made any eye contact, not spoken to him, he may have not given her much more thought. Her actions and reactions to him, gave him hope that she was someone he could hit on for food, and then right to money, and not just a dollar or two. Something about her said easy mark to him.

Where else do people's minds go in these situations? Or other similar circumstances. She is probably liberal, and has had little experience being taken advantage of. The people who have lived on the streets for any period of time learn to work situations, people and whatever they can. It is the people who have not been taken advantage of and who are naive who are easy marks.

 

[lonewolf]

letting them know where you live is a bad move, I know this was in a city and you cant stop who knocks on your door, but that dosent mean you have to answer it.

 

[Weedygarden]

letting them know where you live is a bad move, I know this was in a city and you cant stop who knocks on your door, but that dosent mean you have to answer it.

I have no idea where this woman lives, but I have an idea it is just a few blocks from downtown, and not far from homeless shelters. There are parks where people camp out close to where I think she lives. The homeless have little to do day after day, so I'd bet he knew where she lived long before she ever saw him. Many people live in their own little naive world. Being outside in cities with headphones/earbuds in your ears is not wise, but is so common. You have to be aware, but I learned many years ago, making eye contact is enough to open you up for trouble or panhandlers asking for something.

I was walking a dog along a path, not close to the city, in a high end area, and I see a couple coming. There are workmen in the area, and some have hung their jackets on a fence. I see the woman grab one of the jackets. I am not close, in an elevated section, but we are walking in their direction. I miss the next minute or so, being with the dog. When they get to me, they ask if I have a phone they can use. I did not have my cell phone with me, not that I would have let them use it. My response, which was a knee jerk reaction, was, "I don't have any money." I was a little unnerved, I think. Then I asked, "Did you take one of those men's jackets?" The man answers, "She did, and I told her to put it back." I didn't see them with the jacket, and when I walked on, the jacket was put back. They did look like they were probably homeless and druggies. Why else would there not be a phone between the two of them? I also know that I have seen drug paraphernalia along that path, in spite of being right by high end homes. That path was mostly used by homeowners walking their dogs and exercising, but there is an undesirable element that passes through.

 

[lonewolf]

most people don't make eye contact these days, neither do they reply when you speak to them but hurry on by.
there is too much crime in cities for me to ever want to go there, most of it gang related/drugs and drink.
I went to London, oh over 40 years ago this was, for a family wedding, on the sunday morning I went out to buy a newspaper and when I said "good morning" to someone(as we do here) they jumped out of their skin and looked at me as if I was from outer space.!!!

 

[VenomJockey]

The "homeless" are real professionals when it comes to panhandling, or hitting up the churches for money and goods (sleeping bags, tents, etc.).....many of them make a VERY good living at it. In Denver, for example, there are churches they can go to and get everything from bus tokens to King Sooper gift certificates (at $25 a pop!), and a number of the Catholic Churches will actually just hand them $20-$50 and send them on their way. I lived in Denver (Aurora, actually) for a number of years, and many of the so-called "homeless" were no more homeless than I was...some had townhouses in Cherry Creek for crying out loud!! Panhandling/hitting the churches, etc., is a very good way of life for many....and a lot easier/faster than "working" for a living!!