pro's and con's of body armour,when to wear and when not..
- Thread starter jontte
- Start date
Help Support Homesteading & Country Living Forum:
I think its just a matter of logistics, if you have sufficient vehicle suppurt its easy to haul around heavy equipment, on foot you will ditch that BA after about 10 clicks if you know yuo've got another 20 or 30 to go.
I do believe that every piece of equipment has its function, i wear my body armour when going out when we assist our neighbours when they have home invasions, or when we do local patrols, but running their trails, we ditch it (take what you need and leave the rest in the vehicle) on foot you will never catch up to these buggers wearing BA.
The whole issue is very contentious at best, Why body armour unless you think you are going to end up in a full on gun battle? MOST of us preppers are individuals perhaps with on board partners or kids are you chaps planning on getting into gun fights with your family as your team?. I suppose if you are making a last stand with no chance of escape then yeah body armour will help for a while. But we aint cops, sheriffs or soldiers and nor are we likely (realistically) going to fight cops or soldiers.
Home intrusion? Assisting neighbours under attack is CRIME FIGHTING and OK for armour if you have time. Will you have TIME to put on your armour before you get you gun and go after the intruder in your own home?. My own view in an intruder situation is to react FAST with a FAST response, throw a flash bang ( thunderflash) into the room, fire a volley then withdraw with family. ( I was taught that by a sheriff in KS)
Bugging out ? unless your like JOE in a militia planning on moving an entire community long distance then WHY, We all know that for PREPPERS that SPEED is essential followed by MANEUVERABILITY , Armour is I think for unavoidable confrontational situations IF and ONLY IF you can pick the time and place for the confrontation. Then even so as a prepper you are still highly likely to have a need to sod off quickly.
NOW in FAIRNESS if any of us were going on business to Paris, Brussels, Chicago, LA, Houston, Pretoria a bullet resistant vest on under your jacket or shirt is just good best practice, ( knife proof for UK ). Kids going to high school in high risk areas is another good option for knife proof gear.
If you are going to a prepper rendezvous and you are unsure of what awaits then yes an undershirt kevlar layer is prudent.
For Post Apoc patrolling your local area YES armour
But for most CIVILIAN applications put Greyman, Speed and flexibility , we aint soldiers and nor should we try to be.
Nor except for home / personal defence should we be confrontational if we can avoid taking casualities within a family group.
YOU cannot eat or drink body armour.
Home intrusion? Assisting neighbours under attack is CRIME FIGHTING and OK for armour if you have time. Will you have TIME to put on your armour before you get you gun and go after the intruder in your own home?. My own view in an intruder situation is to react FAST with a FAST response, throw a flash bang ( thunderflash) into the room, fire a volley then withdraw with family. ( I was taught that by a sheriff in KS)
Bugging out ? unless your like JOE in a militia planning on moving an entire community long distance then WHY, We all know that for PREPPERS that SPEED is essential followed by MANEUVERABILITY , Armour is I think for unavoidable confrontational situations IF and ONLY IF you can pick the time and place for the confrontation. Then even so as a prepper you are still highly likely to have a need to sod off quickly.
NOW in FAIRNESS if any of us were going on business to Paris, Brussels, Chicago, LA, Houston, Pretoria a bullet resistant vest on under your jacket or shirt is just good best practice, ( knife proof for UK ). Kids going to high school in high risk areas is another good option for knife proof gear.
If you are going to a prepper rendezvous and you are unsure of what awaits then yes an undershirt kevlar layer is prudent.
For Post Apoc patrolling your local area YES armour
But for most CIVILIAN applications put Greyman, Speed and flexibility , we aint soldiers and nor should we try to be.
Nor except for home / personal defence should we be confrontational if we can avoid taking casualities within a family group.
YOU cannot eat or drink body armour.
I have to add that many an older guy like Mav, myself and others often look on wryly at some of our younger peers when we see what they THINK they can carry all day.
as an "old goat" I know I can walk on foot long distances if I have to,but I'd hate to carry alot,I'm lazy,simple fact 
do I have some gear?? 'course I have,no question about it,some still need to be bought.
if I stay here and only do recce in my near surroundings,then I will carry some more heavy stuff,but I'm able to adapt what to carry.
do I have some gear?? 'course I have,no question about it,some still need to be bought.
if I stay here and only do recce in my near surroundings,then I will carry some more heavy stuff,but I'm able to adapt what to carry.
Sooooo Robin Hood and his outlaws, The Kansas Redlegs, The CSA raiding cav, the French Marquis, The SA Boer Kommandoes, Yugolav partisians, Finnish Jaeger, Colonial Rebels in 1776, the Vietminh, VietCong, Karen Rebels, Plains Native Americans, Irish Repub army, Boko Harem, Laurence of Arabia. one thing they all had in common is they KNEW through bitter experience that SPEED trumps ARMOUR for irregular or asymetric warfare.
as an "old goat" I know I can walk on foot long distances if I have to,but I'd hate to carry alot,I'm lazy,simple fact
do I have some gear?? 'course I have,no question about it,some still need to be bought.
if I stay here and only do recce in my near surroundings,then I will carry some more heavy stuff,but I'm able to adapt what to carry.
Why take a bullet to the chest when the tree you are hiding behind can do the job better
unfortunately,I'm not in that lucky position too as Joe SA,that I have a funtioning militia to work with
Nor am I, There is only me, wife and son and I am not putting them in the line of fire.
we have to be flexible as hell and remember that!
Jonnte I'm just guessing wildly that you went the 10/22 route partly because of weight, portability, ammout of ammo you can affoort as well as local law. To me alll great considerations, but are you or do you think you will lose the advantage the light weight and portability offers by wearing armour?
Amen to that I learned that in the borders or Northern Ireland.
I'm NOT saying you shouldn't buy BA if you can/need it,it's up to you and your personal need,where you plan to hunker in,if you have transport, right now tyransport for me would mean I "borrow" some from my neighbors here if it would go bad .
yup,light weight and local law
not much, as my BA is that vest incl front plate I carried in previous work,nothing like those heavy cumbersome things the mil have,but if don't have to carry it,this old dude is more manouverble and can have more water,more ammo (if needed).
I believe this image is of a modern US based prepper dressed for ops. I still do not agree with low level pouches
yup,light weight and local law
not much, as my BA is that vest incl front plate I carried in previous work,nothing like those heavy cumbersome things the mil have,but if don't have to carry it,this old dude is more manouverble and can have more water,more ammo (if needed).
Water Food and Ammo, = father son and holy ghost
Makes me remember an article from Soldier Magazine decades ago reporting on a multi regiment competition march to to top of a vicious welsh hill top, everyone had to carry 25pounds of kit for the race. So everyone loaded up their packs and got weighed. then off they went up the mountain.
When they all got to the top they were knackered to a man. Then they emptied their packs Paras, Guards, Infantry the lot tipped piles of rocks onto the ground, except the Gurkas...................... they had filled their packs with 25 pounds of FOOD and WATER.
Hah not only do they want to ban big capacity mags but they also want to (A) limit the amount of mags you own (B) only allow you to use OE mags no aftermarket gear. EG the Ruger 10/22 will be limited to TEN round OE mags......... oh and I read someplace 22LR Yellowjacket and Stinger and hyper velocity ammo is on their list to be banned along with many after market accessories...................................... So when are you *******s in Scandinavia have your own EU referendum and get out of the EUSSR, To be honest jaws dropped when Finland joined we always thought you lot answered to NO ONE.
I believe in a post societal collapse the international currency will be the 22 long rifle round.
(...) I was hit in the back by a single shot. It must have been from about 200–300 metres away. The round knocked me down in an instant, it felt like being hit by a sledge-hammer at full swing. I slammed into the dirt face down. (...) I was in agony, I certainly couldn't walk on my own (...) I think it was a 7.62mm round. That's a high calibre bullet to be hit by, but it shows you that the body armour works. I wouldn't be sitting here now telling you this story, if I wasn't wearing one. Thank you to whoever designed the body armour. If I ever meet them, I'd like to buy them a pint.
— Lance Sergeant Daniel Collins
— Lance Sergeant Daniel Collins
look at that Swat Cop in Orlando the other day, a 7.62 Russian round to the head saved by his Kevlar bowler.
Found this pack mule resting.
Lol, watch who you group as old S.E. I'd like to think that my +50 year old body still has a little power in the tank. I still run a mile or two a day, still swim a mile in my pool, do both anerobic and aerobic exercises at a local gym (not into that new Crossfit crap), but on our last exercise, we did a 25 mile forced march with a full pack, granted I had blisters like I had during my last Nijmegan march, which was my eighth time participating, shooting for my ninth in 2018, which would put me at 55. Then at 60. In 2018, I am taking a group over of former military folks, my son, daughter and wife plan to participate also.
Care to join our group?
As for the discussion. For me its about science, practicality, environment, threat level and heat stress. While load bearing plays a bit of the decision, like Joe SA's comment, about the stopping power of B.A. with a 7.62 shot, this is where science plays into B.A. Not all B.A's will stop that projectile if variables play into it. I wore my B.A. in Stan and Iraq (I just got adjusted to it, my gear is considerably lighter now in my INCH than what I carried then), but here is that Murphy interaction, my wound sites are not located where I wore my B.A. The one ankle wound, still has the remnants of the expended round. My mom did not raise a fool, I even wear a T-shirt B.A. to my work each day (no I am not L.E.), but because of the threats today, it is an easy choice to either wear a few pounds of gear underneath my garment or have my wife second guess the "why's" if their is a shooting and I'm the unlucky one. While I am licensed in the state of Texas with my CHL, I still have to leave my weapons in my SUV and parked off campus. Now if my leadership approves the authorization of CHL carrying employees on campus. So the B.A. is that added insurance policy.
As for the picture S.E. I guess it comes down to situations again. Do I wear that gear on a field exercise, you bet I do, and I make my team wear them (we all wear the same type of MARPAT design) so we are not firing on Blue on Blue. I'd think that the Red or OPFOR isn't going to be uniformed in the field (you should know that my old R.A. salt friend). Granted, if I am heading home, its my daily work clothes (either jeans/t-shirt, business casual, or polo/tan tactical pants). I do keep a set of black polo and tactical pants in my locker at work, but time may be my enemy, but in my rig, I have two sets of level 3A B.A.
By the way, S.E. love the tree comment, but North Texas equivalent to trees are Mesquite, not suitable to place my large frame behind. I guess I have the choice of my rump or the front part shot off, guess I will stick my rump out there.
Good thoughts one and all, despite the pro-and con's, until I hit the BOL...its body armor for all. I don't like sucking chest wounds, seen enough for my life-time and Mr. Murphy will not have an Evac chopper for me when T-SHTF. So I weigh the sweat equity of my team and family and will still require them to wear one. Yes, and I get that movement means life, so I want to make sure that our team is well trained and made sure my dad's old axiom applies "training like you will bleed" and "all are trained to fill each other's roles", no one member should be indispensable, when the bullets begin to fly.
being 50 right now doesn't mean I couldn't,just lazy
do long walks with my dog and other exercise activities, couldn't have passed my P.E-test at school without doing stuff and with better scores than the first one.
if I have to,on comes what I have,like to think it's wisdom of life. what no evac choppers??
personally I fear,that with all hunters here,some with very high caliber,powerful rifles those rounds would go through what I have like a hot knife into butter,if it got into that scenario.
as long as I'm alone here,have to be very careful if...
do long walks with my dog and other exercise activities, couldn't have passed my P.E-test at school without doing stuff and with better scores than the first one.
if I have to,on comes what I have,like to think it's wisdom of life. what no evac choppers??
personally I fear,that with all hunters here,some with very high caliber,powerful rifles those rounds would go through what I have like a hot knife into butter,if it got into that scenario.
as long as I'm alone here,have to be very careful if...
Did the Nijmegan in the 70s thanks, along with the Ten Tors, Lykewake walk, Coast to Coast and Pennine way
