Renewable Energy: Choosing between solar and wind

[Silent Bob]

We decided to take advantage of one of the many federal programs that seem to me that I was paying for anyway and because I could not convince the city planner that wind technology is a harmless project, opted to go solar.

I am not going to say that I am advocate of solar power generation, but it has reduced our electric bill significantly and is a sound investment for adding to your home's value. We actually added another $80K to our home via property tax assessment and don't pay any tax on renewable energy projects.

We constructed this project using a company, some cautions I would suggest, check them out and understand how the energy you create is going to be used. In our case, we do three things with it, first it powers the home, not all of it, but a good portion of it, then it recharges our back-up battery source (note expensive and wasn't covered on the initial build), and the third the excess is sold to an electrical company of your choice.

You can file for federal grant money that will help defer some of the cost, but most of the burden is shouldered on the purchaser.

You will notice that I opted to have a huge overhang built, this overhang serves two fold, one is provides an awning for a part of the house giving us shade for about 1/2 the roof. It is a very large monolith, constructed to code, but structurally certified by a company that studies wind/tornados in West Texas and works with Texas Tech.

You will notice that the initial footers were sunk almost five feet deep. We have eight of these beams supporting the entire solar array. The entire structure is rated to withstand an EF-5 tornado. As we said to neighbors, if we have an EF-5, this will be the only structure minus the panels that will be standing. Once the initial frame is sunk, it is filled with concrete allowed to dry and cure and then another overlay of concrete is placed in the last four inches.

In one of the pictures, I placed the side view (sorry for that, but you can rotate the image if you want to see it more detailed).

Yes and in the bug-out plan the generator, batteries and solar panels can be removed and will be taken to our BOL. Why leave it to the trash that are only going to strip it for the copper anyway. Yes and not pictured is the three cameras and a sensor device that prevents the unwanted to screwing with it.

As for wind technology, I am a big proponent of it. Our country leadership is to slow to grasp the idea of the theory, but adjoining counties around our community are investing big time in the theory. If you drive out to West Texas, besides oil, this is the next big energy source that will help America. Trust me, big oil is afraid of it, but in the end, I think that finite non-renewable energy such as oil will be strictly rationed only for lubricants and additives (might not be in our lifetime, but I do see Middle East running out). Oh and if your the theorist or conspirator theory...who has a ton of time wanting to research, take a look at who is investing in the large wind farms...big oil. B.P. just finished a multimillion farm just South of us, and it sits on two counties. The farmers love it too because they even get a tax break, while also being paid a large royalty for the use of the land. Its not only oil companies who pay for use of land! Lastly, if your not a believer, go research T. Boone Pickens renewable energy projects, he did make millions, simply in oil.

We have purchased a small wind technology kit and four battery cells. Larger on the scope is to get my friend in Lubbock to help me with a larger project, provided I can get approval from the local ordinance.

Enjoy all

 

[jontte]

here in finland the biggest opponents to windmills are those who have their summerhouse nearby,it's noisy and all birds collide with the windmills are what they say,if i had my own place solarpower and a windmill would be my choise aswell,living in the city it would be nice to have a panel on the balcony,as back-up,could atleast power my fridge

 

[Silent Bob]

Jontte,

Consider purchasing a YETI solar system, if your only looking for short-term power. You might want to contact the manufacture directly to see what they can do because I think you work off 220 right? I've not been to Finland, but did my tours in England and Germany. I have two large 1250 and two 400 systems with about 12x30W and 4x15W, these can be simply hooked together as one large renewable energy bank. I use one for tailgate parties at American football games...a big thing for us American's and especially Texans. I don't even use my gasoline generator anymore.

 

[jontte]

Silent Bob,

you save a huge bundle of money letting the sun power you ,yes we use 220,we are still quite confident that we have always power but you never know,read the other day that a huge solarflare just missed earth in late 2012, had it hit us, there's a chance we would still be rubbing sticks together for fire,can live without tv but a working fridge and freezer would be nice,thanks for the advice,will do some homework about those panels.

 

[jimLE]

i wouldn't look into wind power simply because it seems like to me,that the windmill it self needs be going at least most of the time..water turbines are out of the question for me,simply because the creek is to far.which leaves me with solar power..i looked a lil bit into solar powered generators..the panel(s) is outside while the generator can be inside the home..

 

[jontte]

nice,all the websites that offer solarpower here in finland,they all focus to summerhouses and other small places,nothing that could be installed for ex on your balcony as an emergency powersupply,gotta dig deeper

 

[jimLE]

jontte..is there any stores like wal-mat/lowes or home depot where you live?might check out their web site if you do..i dont remember which one i checked out.but one of them has a solar powered electric generator(s) that can be ordered on line.and the ones i saw,are small.which means you have power for refrigerator/freezer and maybe 2 or 3 other things..

 

[jontte]

jimLE!

thanks,gonna check that out,if not,next friend who goes on a holliday to the USA is going to get me something ,it would be nice to have that type of gear.think I found it,need the panel and an inverter,then I can plug my fridge in it if needed, isn't exactly cheep,but then everything here costs more,little competition in some areas

 

[Silent Bob]

Here is the YETI that I talked about. I am sure they can ship overseas, might cost you some money, but I'd opt for this considering the amount of light you have available all year long.

http://powerfulproducts.com/

Also, if they can't help. Directly go to http://www.goalzero.com/, they make them. I don't think they can sell directly, but maybe give you a local distributor in Finland or somewhere up Northern Europe. Who knows...maybe they will make you market them...lol, you never know.

My array is pretty expensive, we get sunshine here a ton and most of summer is 14 hours of clear sunshine. So it makes it does make a difference.

They high end yeti will plug into 110, but they might make a 220 voltage one. Email first to find out if they have the ability to convert the wattage.

 

[Myrrph]

the 1250 looks gorgeous

 

[jontte]

I'll do! thanks

 

[Gazrok]

In Texas you'd almost be crazy not to use wind power. Some farmers get by on just that alone.

I think that finite non-renewable energy such as oil will be strictly rationed only for lubricants and additives (might not be in our lifetime, but I do see Middle East running out).

Even when they do, the US is poised to be the big player. We've got more in Alaska or the Dakotas, than all of the Middle East combined, many times over. We simply sip from it rather than really go at it, due to all the red tape and cost. We drain the Middle East because it is cheaper to do so right now. But, once they run out, they'll still be ok due to investments...but the big oil producers will still be Russia and the US.

 

[jontte]

Silent Bob! took alook on that yeti-sysyem,it's beauty,it's everything you need for a SHTF scenario,and the prize well abt half what a similar system costs here in finland,maybe 'cause we are taking the first baby-steps in this field,think prizes will go lower when more and more people understand the advantage of this solar-power

 

[Silent Bob]

In Texas you'd almost be crazy not to use wind power. Some farmers get by on just that alone.



Even when they do, the US is poised to be the big player. We've got more in Alaska or the Dakotas, than all of the Middle East combined, many times over. We simply sip from it rather than really go at it, due to all the red tape and cost. We drain the Middle East because it is cheaper to do so right now. But, once they run out, they'll still be ok due to investments...but the big oil producers will still be Russia and the US.

Good points made by you. My wife actually works for a oil company that is drill sites in West Texas, North Dakota (Where she is from), Oklahoma, Louisiana and just purchased some leases in Mississippi. Your right on your facts. My wife's company also does frac and horizontal drilling. In N.D. they are also doing some sand.

As for the wind turbines, yes, the large one are going in, as soon as a county approves, Archer-Jack county have a good size one this is run by B.P. Clay and Montague county are having a larger on constructed, you will be able to see it off Hwy 297 that heads to Dallas. I spoke to a county administrator in Baylor, they are working to get one in also. As you head West toward Lubbock, even a school district in the town of Crosbyton, Texas has two that provide electricity to the athletic complex and supplement the school districts electricity. I wouldn't be surprised by 2050, pretty much all of West and North Texas will have them. Just makes sense, provided we start getting rain in North Texas, we are working on the third year of a drought. Our lakes are at 25%, so many of us are praying for rain, even the ones that spin tornados will be a god send, it means we get anywhere from 2-4 inches. I spoke to our county extension office and they estimate it would take 34 days-night of rain to get us back to where we would be 99%. The city that we live in, has started to recycle the gray water, treat it and then mix it with the lake water. We are working with Dallas metro to start approval of a third large man-made reservoir lake just east of the city. It will not be built for a few more year and then we would need to fill it. The Red River is not a very large tributary until it gets well past Paris, Texas, so this is of concern.

Thanks for your post. Regards

 

[Potter County Man]

from my standpoint, Solar Power is not practical.
With only 55 - clear, cloudless days in Western Pennsylvania, they would never pay for themselves.

Wind Power is nothing but a scam.
The money is not in operating the wind turbines, but in building them.
A company moved in about 10 years ago - Gamesta, made all the blades on site.
Promised 40 years of work, but was finished after just 8 years.
Once the windmills are built - there is no need for a blade manufacturer in the area.
They got the government to give them more grant money - basically paid them to stay in business longer.
Made it two more years, and are now in the process of shuddering the factory.

The first windmill to fall down happened just a couple of months ago.
My theory is that they were designed by someone that lived in a warmer climate and did not understand the difficulties of building them in the middle of the winter in Western Pennsylvania, nor did they understand how cold it can get here or how hard the wind can blow.

Another consideration is that the countryside is riddled with abandoned coal deep mines. You never know when mine subsidence will cause the ground to shift.

Once the windmills were built, they sat idle until they could find an operator to buy them. Windmills are optimum during peak times of demand - due to the fact that a electrical generation power plant is ran full wide open when it is producing electricity.. It takes a day or two - to get the coal fired power plant up to temperature and you can't turn it up or down like a water faucet.

Since the windmills were instituted, there has been multiple interruptions of television reception - terrestrial television, there is a study being prepared of how many Bald Eagles per a year are being killed by the blades and there are numerous complaints from the near by residents.. No one wants to lay in bed at night and listen to them going whooooosh, wooooosh, whoooooooooosh, whoooooooooosh..........

 

[Brent S]

We decided to take advantage of one of the many federal programs that seem to me that I was paying for anyway and because I could not convince the city planner that wind technology is a harmless project, opted to go solar.

I am not going to say that I am advocate of solar power generation, but it has reduced our electric bill significantly and is a sound investment for adding to your home's value. We actually added another $80K to our home via property tax assessment and don't pay any tax on renewable energy projects.

We constructed this project using a company, some cautions I would suggest, check them out and understand how the energy you create is going to be used. In our case, we do three things with it, first it powers the home, not all of it, but a good portion of it, then it recharges our back-up battery source (note expensive and wasn't covered on the initial build), and the third the excess is sold to an electrical company of your choice.

You can file for federal grant money that will help defer some of the cost, but most of the burden is shouldered on the purchaser.

You will notice that I opted to have a huge overhang built, this overhang serves two fold, one is provides an awning for a part of the house giving us shade for about 1/2 the roof. It is a very large monolith, constructed to code, but structurally certified by a company that studies wind/tornados in West Texas and works with Texas Tech.

You will notice that the initial footers were sunk almost five feet deep. We have eight of these beams supporting the entire solar array. The entire structure is rated to withstand an EF-5 tornado. As we said to neighbors, if we have an EF-5, this will be the only structure minus the panels that will be standing. Once the initial frame is sunk, it is filled with concrete allowed to dry and cure and then another overlay of concrete is placed in the last four inches.

In one of the pictures, I placed the side view (sorry for that, but you can rotate the image if you want to see it more detailed).

Yes and in the bug-out plan the generator, batteries and solar panels can be removed and will be taken to our BOL. Why leave it to the trash that are only going to strip it for the copper anyway. Yes and not pictured is the three cameras and a sensor device that prevents the unwanted to screwing with it.

As for wind technology, I am a big proponent of it. Our country leadership is to slow to grasp the idea of the theory, but adjoining counties around our community are investing big time in the theory. If you drive out to West Texas, besides oil, this is the next big energy source that will help America. Trust me, big oil is afraid of it, but in the end, I think that finite non-renewable energy such as oil will be strictly rationed only for lubricants and additives (might not be in our lifetime, but I do see Middle East running out). Oh and if your the theorist or conspirator theory...who has a ton of time wanting to research, take a look at who is investing in the large wind farms...big oil. B.P. just finished a multimillion farm just South of us, and it sits on two counties. The farmers love it too because they even get a tax break, while also being paid a large royalty for the use of the land. Its not only oil companies who pay for use of land! Lastly, if your not a believer, go research T. Boone Pickens renewable energy projects, he did make millions, simply in oil.

We have purchased a small wind technology kit and four battery cells. Larger on the scope is to get my friend in Lubbock to help me with a larger project, provided I can get approval from the local ordinance.

Enjoy all

We decided to take advantage of one of the many federal programs that seem to me that I was paying for anyway and because I could not convince the city planner that wind technology is a harmless project, opted to go solar.

I am not going to say that I am advocate of solar power generation, but it has reduced our electric bill significantly and is a sound investment for adding to your home's value. We actually added another $80K to our home via property tax assessment and don't pay any tax on renewable energy projects.

We constructed this project using a company, some cautions I would suggest, check them out and understand how the energy you create is going to be used. In our case, we do three things with it, first it powers the home, not all of it, but a good portion of it, then it recharges our back-up battery source (note expensive and wasn't covered on the initial build), and the third the excess is sold to an electrical company of your choice.

You can file for federal grant money that will help defer some of the cost, but most of the burden is shouldered on the purchaser.

You will notice that I opted to have a huge overhang built, this overhang serves two fold, one is provides an awning for a part of the house giving us shade for about 1/2 the roof. It is a very large monolith, constructed to code, but structurally certified by a company that studies wind/tornados in West Texas and works with Texas Tech.

You will notice that the initial footers were sunk almost five feet deep. We have eight of these beams supporting the entire solar array. The entire structure is rated to withstand an EF-5 tornado. As we said to neighbors, if we have an EF-5, this will be the only structure minus the panels that will be standing. Once the initial frame is sunk, it is filled with concrete allowed to dry and cure and then another overlay of concrete is placed in the last four inches.

In one of the pictures, I placed the side view (sorry for that, but you can rotate the image if you want to see it more detailed).

Yes and in the bug-out plan the generator, batteries and solar panels can be removed and will be taken to our BOL. Why leave it to the trash that are only going to strip it for the copper anyway. Yes and not pictured is the three cameras and a sensor device that prevents the unwanted to screwing with it.

As for wind technology, I am a big proponent of it. Our country leadership is to slow to grasp the idea of the theory, but adjoining counties around our community are investing big time in the theory. If you drive out to West Texas, besides oil, this is the next big energy source that will help America. Trust me, big oil is afraid of it, but in the end, I think that finite non-renewable energy such as oil will be strictly rationed only for lubricants and additives (might not be in our lifetime, but I do see Middle East running out). Oh and if your the theorist or conspirator theory...who has a ton of time wanting to research, take a look at who is investing in the large wind farms...big oil. B.P. just finished a multimillion farm just South of us, and it sits on two counties. The farmers love it too because they even get a tax break, while also being paid a large royalty for the use of the land. Its not only oil companies who pay for use of land! Lastly, if your not a believer, go research T. Boone Pickens renewable energy projects, he did make millions, simply in oil.

We have purchased a small wind technology kit and four battery cells. Larger on the scope is to get my friend in Lubbock to help me with a larger project, provided I can get approval from the local ordinance.

Enjoy all

Really good structural system, wish I had a little more detail on the battery setup and inverter, or does your system use micro inverters? I hear most pro setups have gone to those. Anyways, a very nice setup. What kind of total power can you generate on that size setup?

 

[Silent Bob]

Brett,

That is a good question, I really don't know. I am going to have to check to see whether it is a inverter or micro-inverter. My good friend, who is a master electrician can tell me in a minute, but I guess I could go look at the book. Might take me till the weekend to get back to you on it. As for total power, I really don't know about that either. All I can tell you as how much is saved based on cost saving and usage. The meter is so different because it is digital, compared to the one that spins around. Know that really doesn't help you, I guess when you get that endowment from your rich uncle, you could ask the company that builds it, how much it will kick out. I know I about 20 panels. One thing to say, the people that constructed it, well the engineer that designed it, did underestimate the construction and cost in labor to put it up. I think he quietly told me in the tune of about $4.5K because of the steel and slant of the frame.

I simply am not the type that worried about it, since as my wife will tell you, I am really good at throwing money at some crazy stuff. Part of the reason, I only have a small shelter, rather than a larger one that is 10x40 or greater. Of course the one we are projected to build at the BOL site will be about 3 10x40's connected to a tubular constructed walkway that will marry up to the 4 underground shipping containers. I know a bit crazy, but then now that I have learned from my initial mistakes, will not commit them again. Hence why the site will have both a blended solar/wind project. Because of the location, the site is off grid anyway. I've been talking to some of my old Air Force buddies that helped maintained underground facilities like missile silos, etc to ensure structural integrity. Of course, North Dakota has lots of ground water issues and I remember one of my neighbors was a Prevent Maintenance guy who was always working in the holes...rain, sun, Winter, Summer.

Have a good one.

 

[YSBguy]

Here is the YETI that I talked about. I am sure they can ship overseas, might cost you some money, but I'd opt for this considering the amount of light you have available all year long.

http://powerfulproducts.com/

Also, if they can't help. Directly go to http://www.goalzero.com/, they make them. I don't think they can sell directly, but maybe give you a local distributor in Finland or somewhere up Northern Europe. Who knows...maybe they will make you market them...lol, you never know.

My array is pretty expensive, we get sunshine here a ton and most of summer is 14 hours of clear sunshine. So it makes it does make a difference.

They high end yeti will plug into 110, but they might make a 220 voltage one. Email first to find out if they have the ability to convert the wattage.

Jontte,

Consider purchasing a YETI solar system, if your only looking for short-term power. You might want to contact the manufacture directly to see what they can do because I think you work off 220 right? I've not been to Finland, but did my tours in England and Germany. I have two large 1250 and two 400 systems with about 12x30W and 4x15W, these can be simply hooked together as one large renewable energy bank. I use one for tailgate parties at American football games...a big thing for us American's and especially Texans. I don't even use my gasoline generator anymore.

I was just at a prepper show in Tulsa and there were some guys with a good looking solar generator.
The yeti seems great if you lose power for a few hours, but then your in trouble. It doesn't seem to charge your batteries quickly enough, unless all your using is a light and a radio.
The other guys are at ogpower.com. I talked to goal zero and og power and I am thinking about going with OG power.
Has anybody used their products before?

 

[Silent Bob]

YSBguy,

I agree that the YETI and similar companies like ogpower have issues with the battery. I have both the Yeti 1250 (2) of them and 1 Yeti 400. I have about 10 30W and 2 15W. I have used mine for tailgating and when the daughter comes to me from her university (she has a sorority camping trip) and is begging to use dad's gadgets for ease of comfort.

I can assure you, it is nothing like what I have on my home. I still have to answer Brent S on his question, but my home battery is rated at 4400W, but I have some serious panels that power the home, then they recharge the batteries, before the rest gets grabbed by the greedy power company.

I get the feedback on the wind generation, but so many of us in North and West Texas are switching to renewable energy to at least powers some parts of home and implements. I know this does not always work for the rest of the country, but I put the thread out there for people who are considering it.

As for the Yeti and others. until they figure out how to build larger batteries that can be carried and more moveable solar panels, looks like we will just have to be happy for what we have. Just remember, if demand starts to influence the companies that make them, they will invest more into research and field better ones, if not the market is basically what they can afford to reinvest. I am sure they got some Obama money because many did. See Potter County Man thread, his community got screwed a bit by the promise of renewable energy. Doesn't always work out for all and I do know that at first, I was a little skeptical about them in North Texas, only problem our plant that makes the wind turbines, is about 85 miles away and they move them farther west. So someone has to be making profit for them to keep building and we have a big one coming up just 20 miles from our city. I also heard news not that it has been released but three other counties near us, will be building new wind farms in the next few years.

So just my advice, if you think your money is better spent on a rifle or other prep, go with that idea.

 

[YSBguy]

YSBguy,

I agree that the YETI and similar companies like ogpower have issues with the battery. I have both the Yeti 1250 (2) of them and 1 Yeti 400. I have about 10 30W and 2 15W. I have used mine for tailgating and when the daughter comes to me from her university (she has a sorority camping trip) and is begging to use dad's gadgets for ease of comfort.

I can assure you, it is nothing like what I have on my home. I still have to answer Brent S on his question, but my home battery is rated at 4400W, but I have some serious panels that power the home, then they recharge the batteries, before the rest gets grabbed by the greedy power company.

I get the feedback on the wind generation, but so many of us in North and West Texas are switching to renewable energy to at least powers some parts of home and implements. I know this does not always work for the rest of the country, but I put the thread out there for people who are considering it.

As for the Yeti and others. until they figure out how to build larger batteries that can be carried and more moveable solar panels, looks like we will just have to be happy for what we have. Just remember, if demand starts to influence the companies that make them, they will invest more into research and field better ones, if not the market is basically what they can afford to reinvest. I am sure they got some Obama money because many did. See Potter County Man thread, his community got screwed a bit by the promise of renewable energy. Doesn't always work out for all and I do know that at first, I was a little skeptical about them in North Texas, only problem our plant that makes the wind turbines, is about 85 miles away and they move them farther west. So someone has to be making profit for them to keep building and we have a big one coming up just 20 miles from our city. I also heard news not that it has been released but three other counties near us, will be building new wind farms in the next few years.

So just my advice, if you think your money is better spent on a rifle or other prep, go with that idea.

I hear ya Bob,
I'm just starting to research this whole thing. I agree that batteries are a problem if your gonna bug out.
A 12 deep cycle can be 50# or more. I'm looking for something for my house right now that can last for a couple of weeks if I need it to and the yeti looks nice, but it just doesn't seem to make the cut for us. It does seem perfect for tailgating.
I think if I got something like an og power station I could have a good sized battery bank-more like 200 amp hours and a 200w panel we could be pretty good for a while as long as we eat everything in the fridge in the first few days.
I'm still researching the idea and seeing what's out there.
I think part of the part of the problem with grid tied solar is the lack of battery bank. When the grid goes out you have no power. That the problem with the home depot solar program.
Sounds like your doing it right with all that battery bank.
Thanks for your input.

 

[Silent Bob]

I hear you on that. I can tell you, in my bug out plans, provided we have about 2 hours, we can get the panels down from the frame and take the rest of the hardware with us. Tricky part will be the inverter, but my electrician friend tells me that we can get that out when we shut down the trunk, he has the ability and knowhow to do it. The batteries are easy because I had the company that installed it place on a wheels that are secured by latches.

As for frig, I've got a regular one and a solar one. The solar one is still in shipping crate and stored brand new in garage. I know like I said in my thread, I have a bad habit for gadgets. Just note, if your going to do it on your home, see what tax credit you can get from it. We did a bit, so it helped defray some of the original outlay, also note: Not sure if Colorado county government assessors give you a break, but it upped our value and as I said in my thread, we don't get hit on the assessment tax.

Lol, saw on your last post that your in Colorado, dummy me, I just never look, guess fatigue has set in, but if the event does occur, we might be neighbors, I've been looking for a piece of property up there, old BOL is being developed, just not sure with your gun laws. Sorry to hear that your losing MAGPUL.