Texas School Shooting

[Dutchboy]

I'm sure by now most of you have heard about the Texas high school shooting in which 10 people were killed and many injured. Early reports indicate that the shooter did not legally own any firearms and that the weapons used belonged to his father. If this is the case, obviously his father is in deep doo-doo.

Assuming this is true, my question is, at what age or what maturity level should we allow our children access to our weapons? In line with this, I would ask if access should be granted at all, being they are separate individuals?

 

[SHOOTER13]

Hard to say Dutch...

Some kids show maturity at an early age...some never mature...even into adulthood.

The perp in question obviously had mental issues...and the first people who should have been aware of that SHOULD have been his parents ( father )...

whose weapons were NOT secured...

And who, in their right mind, walks around in a long trench coat in the hot humid climate of Texas... !?

Again...he did that, according to witnesses, more than a few times...meaning he was "screaming for attention" and was mentally troubled.

At the school...access points were not guarded or locked...no metal detectors...and luckily the one good guy with a gun who was there to end the carnage, wounded the perp...albeit at the cost of his own health.

I understand they had active shooter drilled maybe a week before hand at the school, same at the hospital...mass casualty triage training , and a teacher did save some students by locking down in a concrete soundproof music room.

Forget arming the teachers...they should be left to teach...and most don't even want the responsibility...

Hire adjudicated ex-police or ex-military to control the perimeter, exterior as well as interior...and patrol the halls.

These kids are the future...and it's up to US to protect them...provide them a safe and secure environment...and WE should NEVER let this happen AGAIN !!!!!

My 2 cents...

.

 

[Retired1]

Very sad.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/05/1...es-10-dead-hunt-for-explosives-continues.html

credit: foxnews.com

 

[Supervisor42]

Very sad.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/05/1...es-10-dead-hunt-for-explosives-continues.html

credit: foxnews.com

Poor kids. It's going to end up like going thru TSA every day to walk into school.
There is only one sure thing that will put a stop to this.
Israel figured it out.
They got the media to agree to stop making suicide attackers into celebrities by not publishing their name or pictures.
From then on it was "unnamed attacker or attackers". No fame, no game.
Mass-killing attacks dropped to zero.

Since the go-to answer here is always to infringe on the 2nd amendment rights, they never even think about asking the ones that cling to 1a rights to pull the plug on the real reason these idiots do this crap...
Fame.

 

[Curmudgeon]

Israel figured it out.
They got the media to agree to stop making suicide attackers into celebrities by not publishing their name or pictures.
From then on it was "unnamed attacker or attackers". No fame, no game.
Mass-killing attacks dropped to zero.

I'm sure this plays into it too.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/12/30/armed-teachers-guards-key-to-school-security-in-israel.html

It's a shame that fencing with concertina wire, armed guards and armed teachers are necessary, but given the alternative......................

 

[Supervisor42]

I'm sure this plays into it too.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/12/30/armed-teachers-guards-key-to-school-security-in-israel.html

It's a shame that fencing with concertina wire, armed guards and armed teachers are necessary, but given the alternative......................

Even though this was written 2 school-shootings ago in 2012, the solution was put out there back then:

"In order to station armed guards in U.S. schools, an idea advocated by the National Rifle Association, America could tap a ready pool of qualified candidates, Shemtov said. U.S. soldiers returning from overseas are well suited for school protection, he said, and “instead of returning with nothing to do there’s a sea of work” as school guards.

“They’re the elite of the American people,” Shemtov said. “You have people obligated, morally and ethically to the state, to the flag - this is a soldier. It’s a person who went out to do this. All you have to do is give him the appropriate training to do this in the private sector....This is the best of the American people, like they’re the best of the Israeli people. They’re people who took it upon themselves to help others.”

All our idiots can seem to do it try to limit access to firearms, of which there are hundreds of millions everywhere.
What's next?
A .38 revolver gets declared an assault-weapon?
Every shotgun is declared an assault-weapon?
All we can seem to do is stupid stuff.
We can't even copy someone else's homework successfully:bang Head:.
Thank goodness the 'Gun-Free Zone' signs worked. <----@stupid

 

[Supervisor42]

I'm on the soapbox until somebody kicks me off.
Let's just look at the ordinary 12-gauge shotgun, pump or auto, (millions of 'em out there) loaded with only 3 rounds of OO-buckshot.
In 3 seconds it can punch 27, 30-caliber holes, each of which can be lethal.
For comparison: the M2 carbine (the original 'assault rifle') can do only do 3 more (30) in the same time:

In a crowded area, the shotgun would obviously be much more deadly as the projectiles would not tend to follow behind each other.
The M2 carbine is tightly regulated because it is a machine-gun.
Most 12-gauge autos hold 5 rounds.
That's 45 lethal 30-caliber holes in 5 seconds. Hundreds of thousands of those guns are everywhere.
It only takes one.
Our schools being almost completely defenseless is stupid in the 21st century.

While I'm on the soapbox, I hope in the next week that the press spends at least half the amount of time covering the heroic school resource officer that put a stop to this madness, instead of constantly showing the 17-year-old nipple-head that did this, fulfilling his need for fame.

 

[Dutchboy]

Thank you gentleman, as they are all excellent and thought provoking points.

I look back on my own children growing up and I remember my daughter who was my first born child. When I first became a Police Officer, I began acquiring several firearms, some were my own and some from the department. One of the things I notice about her was that she could care less about firearms, as all she wanted to do was play with her Barbie dolls.

While not the best or wisest of practices, I can recall times when I came home from work and would lay my duty belt on the kitchen table or across the bed. My little girl would be scurrying around the house and never ever touched my weapons. Thankfully, all she wanted to do was play house or play with her dolls. Again, I will admit now that this was definitely not the wisest or safest of decisions and I thank God that nothing ever happen!

Ten years later, my son was born. One of the first things I noticed was that he would imitate my every move. He would watch me like a hawk each morning as I dressed and put my uniform and duty equipment on. At a very early age I can recall him expressing his desire to become a Cop, as well as his interest in firearms. That's when I decided to invest in a safe to store my weapons.

It wasn't until he was about 17 or 18 that I started teaching him about firearms and firearm safety. This included trips to the range as well. Even then, he never had access to any of my weapons. He's in his late 20's now and mature enough to know that if and only if it's an emergency and I'm not home, he has access to a weapon.

I must note that he has never ever demonstrated any behaviors or conduct that would make me change my mind about him safely and responsibly handling firearms, and I thank God.

 

[Clipper]

kids today are nothing like the kids decades ago. Kids today are loose cannons and guess whose fault it is. They have regressed to animal behavior.

We don't need to control guns, we need to control the animals.

 

[RevV]

Poor kids. It's going to end up like going thru TSA every day to walk into school.
There is only one sure thing that will put a stop to this.
Israel figured it out.
They got the media to agree to stop making suicide attackers into celebrities by not publishing their name or pictures.
From then on it was "unnamed attacker or attackers". No fame, no game.
Mass-killing attacks dropped to zero.

Since the go-to answer here is always to infringe on the 2nd amendment rights, they never even think about asking the ones that cling to 1a rights to pull the plug on the real reason these idiots do this crap...
Fame.

Excellent idea! But not part of "their" agenda.

 

[RevV]

kids today are nothing like the kids decades ago. Kids today are loose cannons and guess whose fault it is. They have regressed to animal behavior.

We don't need to control guns, we need to control the animals.

Of course we all know that ALL modern kids are NOT loose cannons and animals, but there does seem to be a higher percentage than in the past.

When I was in high school (mid-80s) it was fully legal and normal to take a rifle or shotgun to school and to leave it in plain view in your car/truck so you could go hunting right after school.

It was normal to see 20-30 long guns inside vehicles in the school parking lot. No one was afraid, and no one ever got shot on school property, not even by accident.

OBVIOUSLY guns at school are NOT the problem!
The problem is guns IN THE WRONG HANDS--hands which lack decency and respect for human life.

 

[Supervisor42]

Excellent idea! But not part of "their" agenda.

Well it should be. It's causing loss of American lives.
It's illegal for the press to show a picture or tell the name of a minor and it doesn't violate their 1A rights.
How easy would it be to find the law and change the word "minor" to "minor or terrorist"?
Mass shootings would evaporate.
So simple.
Stupid simple.
Read the overseas press: "unnamed gunmen", "unnamed attackers" is all you will find. If they do identify them, it's 'Isis members' or 'Hesbula fighters' attacked.
What do we do? Plaster the ID photos with names under them of all the 9-11 hijackers on every TV and newspaper in the country......:bang Head:
Stupid.

 

[RevV]

Well it should be. It's causing loss of American lives.
It's illegal for the press to show a picture or tell the name of a minor and it doesn't violate their 1A rights.
How easy would it be to find the law and change the word "minor" to "minor or terrorist"?
Mass shootings would evaporate.
So simple.
Stupid simple.
Read the overseas press: "unnamed gunmen", "unnamed attackers" is all you will find. If they do identify them, it's 'Isis members' or 'Hesbula fighters' attacked.
What do we do? Plaster the ID photos with names under them of all the 9-11 hijackers on every TV and newspaper in the country......:bang Head:
Stupid.

I totally agree, but I'm not holding my breath. I think the media feeds on tragedy, inspires the next evil perp, and makes advertising money doing it.
The Left encourages the media's efforts because it lends support to their anti-2A agenda.

I've recently seen 2 different articles claiming that there have been at least 21 school shootings in the USA so far in 2018, but to reach that number they include EVERY shooting, including suicides and windows broken by BB guns. It's dishonest reporting aimed at fueling anti-2A feelings in the minds of the mindless masses.

 

[Curmudgeon]

Of course we all know that ALL modern kids are NOT loose cannons and animals, but there does seem to be a higher percentage than in the past.

As the population grows, so do the odds.

Add in the strange path the country has taken in recent years and it's a recipe for disaster.

 

[Dutchboy]

All good points, and people wonder why there is so much violence in our schools and society as a whole. One answer is simple that we can't forget, and that is, we kicked GOD out of school and our way of life, and replace him with individual liberties, whereby everyone gets a trophy or a ribbon, just for showing up!

I remember as a young child and going to grammar school, the first thing we did was to say the pledge of allegiance as well as read a bible verse. Do this today in public school and the teacher and the school would be sued and most likely lose their job!

 

[Curmudgeon]

One answer is simple that we can't forget, and that is, we kicked GOD out of school and our way of life!

Yep!

 

[SHOOTER13]

Dutch said: " we kicked GOD out of school and our way of life! "




.

 

[Clipper]

As the population grows, so do the odds.

Add in the strange path the country has taken in recent years and it's a recipe for disaster.

Ain't that the truth. It's the odds that's the problem. It's overwhelming.

 

[RevV]

Great comments, all!

 

[Supervisor42]

Dutch said: " we kicked GOD out of school and our way of life! "

Ain't that the truth. It's the odds that's the problem. It's overwhelming.

Add in the strange path the country has taken in recent years and it's a recipe for disaster.

The 'strange path' is anything that can be construed as 'punishment' has been completely removed from the upbringing of children.
Nothing they do results in punishment, they have no idea of it so why not?
I remember as far back as elementary school, if you continued to act up, the teacher called you up in front of the class and popped your backside with a paddle.
(Actually it was one of those things that used to have a rubber-band and red ball on it).
It wasn't 'physical abuse', it didn't even hurt. But the humiliation and teasing from your peers was the actual punishment. And it was effective!
Nowadays if a student becomes uncontrollable, they are sent to "A-school" which is the same school, but with selected kids that are just as belligerent as them.
Great way to 'cultivate' misbehavior. And we start them out with drugs by requiring them to take drugs. Brilliant!

Even in later years if they are arrested for committing crimes, they are given probation and sent right back home to do the same things except with a lesson on how not to get caught.
If they are caught again, they just get longer probation and the cycle repeats with another lesson on how not to get caught.
They get all the way to their 20's with absolutely no concept that there might be consequences for their actions. Why, there never has been before.
As much as we'd like to blame the little monsters we have created, it's our fault.
I saw plenty of problem kids straightened out when I was in school. It was possible.
Instead we are just 'killing them with kindness'.

 

[Retired1]

I went to a German Lutheran grade school, kindergarten through 8th grade, in the 1940 & 50s. I was a challenge for my teachers even though disciplines were (harsh*) at the decision of the teacher. My parents merely supported the teachers decisions and provided supplementary punishments at home. I can only imagine that my life would have taken a much different path, had I gone to a public school. I did not appreciate it at the time, but I grew to greatly appreciate it as I grew older.

* = Spare the rod - spoil the child reigned supreme. Whipping sticks, rulers broken over knuckles, banished to sit on a stool in the coat room for long periods, etc.

 

[Dutchboy]

Hey Terry, I must take exception to your comment about "public school". I am a product of the Philadelphia public school system and like yourself, I was challenged and received my share of discipline in school at the hands of the teachers/administrators. And like you, my parents supported the teachers decisions on most occasions and provided supplementary discipline once I got home! I don't think it's the school system per-se, but the times we live in. As a result of my public education, I was able to go on to college, secure a successful military as well as civilian career in Law Enforcement.

Times have changed wherein a teacher can't even look at a student cross eyed without fear of some sort of retribution or reprisal from the school and the parents alike!

Times have changed my friend, as I am a product of the public educational system and rather proud of it!

 

[Retired1]

Exception noted and understood. I apologize for making a blanket statement. In my community (at the time) only the Lutheran and Catholic schools provided strong discipline. The public schools had a reputation for little to no discipline. That all said. most all of the kids made it to adulthood in good fashion, regardless of school attended .

 

[Supervisor42]

I went to a German Lutheran grade school, kindergarten through 8th grade, in the 1940 & 50s. I was a challenge for my teachers even though disciplines were (harsh*) at the decision of the teacher. My parents merely supported the teachers decisions and provided supplementary punishments at home. I can only imagine that my life would have taken a much different path, had I gone to a public school. I did not appreciate it at the time, but I grew to greatly appreciate it as I grew older.

* = Spare the rod - spoil the child reigned supreme. Whipping sticks, rulers broken over knuckles, banished to sit on a stool in the coat room for long periods, etc.

All 'exceptional' kids are a handful in school. (by exceptional I mean different than norm) You give us a problem/system to defeat and we'd find a way. I drove my teachers up the wall; they would hand out a pop-qiz with 10 questions. I'd answer the first 7 and turn it in. "Why did you only answer 7?"
"That was all I needed to answer to pass".
We had Physics class in the 11th grade. We learned. The penalty for cutting class was 3 licks by the assistant principal with a 2' board. Harsh.
5 of us would head out to the state docks after lunch and go swimming. We knew he could swing good thru the first couple of us but then would tire.
Marching into his office just before the end of the day, we'd dutifully turn ourselves in. Standing shoulder-to-shoulder the 'whipping order' would be random.
3 of us would barely get symbolic strokes.
We did also learn that double-knit polyester dries much faster than denim. You do NOT want to be whipped wearing wet denim!
I wore polyester:wink:.
Who said you couldn't learn useful stuff in school?
And we all turned out to be good people.

 

[Dutchboy]

Exception noted and understood. I apologize for making a blanket statement. In my community (at the time) only the Lutheran and Catholic schools provided strong discipline. The public schools had a reputation for little to no discipline. That all said. most all of the kids made it to adulthood in good fashion, regardless of school attended .

No need to apologize as you are so right my "Brother in Blue"!

 

[Curmudgeon]

I fought our local school system the whole time my girls were in school, begging them to show some discipline to ALL students.

I would have been just as successful standing outside banging my head on the brick wall. :bang Head:

 

[Supervisor42]

I fought our local school system the whole time my girls were in school, begging them to show some discipline to ALL students.

I would have been just as successful standing outside banging my head on the brick wall. :bang Head:

Fortunately we, (me and Curmudgeon) are through sending kids to school.
Ours finished law-school last year and will be taking the Bar this year to become a lawyer.
When I am old and decrepit, I will not live in poverty.