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Well, how well would they fare against a group armed with modern weapons? I think not very well? Might they consider arming themselves better?
A group "FORMED" post-SHTF for survival will need Exactly what skills to survive.
- Thread starter Sourdough
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They will all die except a few that did prep in advance and they will also die if the rest of the group discover what they have.
People are not much different than any other animal. They will do anything to survive, anything.
You have something they want and they will kill you to get it.
No matter how much you wave and say hello those 60 people are strangers and they will not care about you or anyone else. Even family members and friends might be a problem.
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Probably correct....except and unless you have a few in your family/friend unit that are extremely well armed and trained, way beyond the rest of the neighborhood, who may be armed but with hunting rifles they use once a year....
My point exactly!! And these groups with appointed leaders is why the SHTF will happen!!
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Before we know we need a group, what does SHTF look like? How do we know SHTF? How will we know that we need to connect with others?
Early in the pandemic, neighbors texted and volunteered to shop, etc. for each other. That was a situation where people needed or wanted help from each other. It was certainly not a SHTF situation, but it was a situation where people needed or wanted help and to help.
I agree with Caribou, you need a leader, but not everyone who thinks they are leadership material really is. Narcissists like to be in charge, the boss, but OMG, no thank you! They can be charismatic and manipulative. People can be sold a bill of goods that they haven't even realized what they are getting into.
I agree with Amish, I'm not joining a random group of people I don't know. I think about a group of neighbors who I already know joining together. Then some will invite others who I don't know. Really, groups like this are never truly closed because someone has an elderly mother and father, a grown child, someone, some reason to let them in.
I can be soft spoken and people mistake that as weakness, until they back me into a corner, and then I am no longer soft spoken! Then they don't like me because now they hear me and they didn't listen to me before, but now I am giving it to them in a way that they are hearing loud and clear, but don't like the tone! I could never have a random leader tell me what to do with my preps, my anything. How do you select a leader? How do you know when someone is going to be a good leader?
I have just been thinking that people need to work together now. I know people in small towns do help each other out at various times. During harvest, lots of retirees go help various farmers bring in the harvest, working from before sunlight to after sundown. They also help out when working cattle and hogs, hunting season, etc. People know each other from church, and other organizations. They know who to avoid and who to include.
All that said, we never know what is going to happen and where we are going to be. Will our home be burned to ground? Will we lose all of our preps? Will we be homeless and wandering around looking for a place to connect, help and to be helped? Will our vehicles have been stolen or damaged? Will we be outdoors in freezing weather, needing a hand up and hand out? Never say never! We have no idea what life is bringing!
Early in the pandemic, neighbors texted and volunteered to shop, etc. for each other. That was a situation where people needed or wanted help from each other. It was certainly not a SHTF situation, but it was a situation where people needed or wanted help and to help.
I agree with Caribou, you need a leader, but not everyone who thinks they are leadership material really is. Narcissists like to be in charge, the boss, but OMG, no thank you! They can be charismatic and manipulative. People can be sold a bill of goods that they haven't even realized what they are getting into.
I agree with Amish, I'm not joining a random group of people I don't know. I think about a group of neighbors who I already know joining together. Then some will invite others who I don't know. Really, groups like this are never truly closed because someone has an elderly mother and father, a grown child, someone, some reason to let them in.
I can be soft spoken and people mistake that as weakness, until they back me into a corner, and then I am no longer soft spoken! Then they don't like me because now they hear me and they didn't listen to me before, but now I am giving it to them in a way that they are hearing loud and clear, but don't like the tone! I could never have a random leader tell me what to do with my preps, my anything. How do you select a leader? How do you know when someone is going to be a good leader?
I have just been thinking that people need to work together now. I know people in small towns do help each other out at various times. During harvest, lots of retirees go help various farmers bring in the harvest, working from before sunlight to after sundown. They also help out when working cattle and hogs, hunting season, etc. People know each other from church, and other organizations. They know who to avoid and who to include.
All that said, we never know what is going to happen and where we are going to be. Will our home be burned to ground? Will we lose all of our preps? Will we be homeless and wandering around looking for a place to connect, help and to be helped? Will our vehicles have been stolen or damaged? Will we be outdoors in freezing weather, needing a hand up and hand out? Never say never! We have no idea what life is bringing!
Thinking a little more on the OP, and certainly not all through that yet. So you go 60 some odd people in a subdivision. Typically that'll be around 20 men, 20 women, 20 kids give or take. Single moms and dads, some no kids, maybe a few that live alone, maybe a couple with elderly parents. Given those rough numbers I would expect less than 3 kids possibly teens, maybe 3 ladies, and no more than 5 men. Elderly folks would harder, they may have skills or knowledge that could be invaluable, or maybe nothing or so frail they really can't do anything.
Culling points would be liars, thieves, know it alls, high maintenance, shrill, folks that talk just to here theirs self talk, whiners, drama queens, aholes, etc. I'm sure there are others, but I'm sure you get my drift.
So outbof 60, there may be a possible 5 to 10 or 12 that may be worthwhile in a group. 5 is a more likely number to me. But taking a few hours or a few days and going on my gut feel I'll have a decent idea if any are worth the effort to try or not. I've interviewed enough folks over the years and supervised many more that I have developed a good gut feel for people. Some I can work with even with difference in mind set, but others I just won't put up with.
Culling points would be liars, thieves, know it alls, high maintenance, shrill, folks that talk just to here theirs self talk, whiners, drama queens, aholes, etc. I'm sure there are others, but I'm sure you get my drift.
So outbof 60, there may be a possible 5 to 10 or 12 that may be worthwhile in a group. 5 is a more likely number to me. But taking a few hours or a few days and going on my gut feel I'll have a decent idea if any are worth the effort to try or not. I've interviewed enough folks over the years and supervised many more that I have developed a good gut feel for people. Some I can work with even with difference in mind set, but others I just won't put up with.
There is an old quote, "I'm not afraid of someone with 100 guns but the guy with one gun, because he knows how to use it." Sorry, I don't remember who said it. The guy that brings home deer every year is a lethal threat. The sniper is the deadliest threat on the battlefield, and has been for centuries. Special bounties have been placed on their heads in every conflict.
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Being shot with a single shot 30/06 by a one eyed hunter would still hurt.
Pastor Joe has a group. It has been closed for years now but at one time anyone that met the requirements could join. You had to provide your own structure and fill half of it with food and supplies. The other half was for Joe to use as he saw fit.
Joe is the leader and a good choice. Anyone that doesn't agree is free to leave. You can't have 60 captains on one ship.
I can think of two families that I would be willing to partner with. Of the six of us 5 would be great choices as leader. My wife would not be. I wouldn't join a group that didn't have a leader. If I started a group and you thought you were going to join and take over control you can just keep going. Now if you show up with a 53' trailer full of food you get more say than someone that shows up with a backpack full of clothes and some jerky.
Joe is the leader and a good choice. Anyone that doesn't agree is free to leave. You can't have 60 captains on one ship.
I can think of two families that I would be willing to partner with. Of the six of us 5 would be great choices as leader. My wife would not be. I wouldn't join a group that didn't have a leader. If I started a group and you thought you were going to join and take over control you can just keep going. Now if you show up with a 53' trailer full of food you get more say than someone that shows up with a backpack full of clothes and some jerky.
Interesting thread, but once again nebulous enough that anything could be happening.
People generally struggle to live at all costs.
People will do anything to keep their kids alive.
Suburbia will be filled with starving people in a mater of a few days.
Gangs will form (if they aren't already) and they will decimate anyone for the survival of the gang.
I envision a war chief and a camp chieftess to run a small group where there are skills and supplies that have been pre planned before anything happens.
Water , food, shelter, defense will be the deciding factors between survival and death.
People generally struggle to live at all costs.
People will do anything to keep their kids alive.
Suburbia will be filled with starving people in a mater of a few days.
Gangs will form (if they aren't already) and they will decimate anyone for the survival of the gang.
I envision a war chief and a camp chieftess to run a small group where there are skills and supplies that have been pre planned before anything happens.
Water , food, shelter, defense will be the deciding factors between survival and death.
I'll add "LOCATION".
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What about an eye for an eye, which means let the punishment fit the crime. They can gang up & put you six feet under or worse leave you alone to die, when some drifter comes after all you have. That happens every day now, how will you be safe after the SHTF.
Being fair & strong will win you loyalty, which is more precious then gold or guns.
You should study all the Kings & how they died, loyalty saved more then all the Armies.
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I hear ya. But the situation where an Amish hunter would be a threat could be quickly changed by 30 guys trained in the use of AR-15s.
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Amish hunters won't hunt people. They believe that killing a person will send them to hell. Doesn't matter what kind of gun they have. But they do hunt animals for food with guns.
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So then it would be easy to overrun an Amish community? I can't see them not fighting....?
I think knowledge of gardening both 'guerilla' and normal in trying land conditions will be invaluable and hard to obtain after the event we are discussing. Literally you can't live without food for longer than 3 weeks if we follow the rule of 3.
I am a former city slicker with 14 years now gardening in both gazillion containers and now on the 50 acres we have. Central WI weather is unfaithful, hard and downright wants to beat you up on every level: bugs, soil, weather and sun or lack thereof. AND bitterly cold weather that kills many "perennial" crops/fruits/trees.
I have had to learn more than many of the many 1000-4000 acre potato, corn and soybean farmers here who use every type of poisonous fungicide, herbicide, pesticide known to mankind and who would have huge crop failures without them. The size of the mega farm machinery is unsuportable in post SHTF time. I am good friends with many of them and they are seriously wonderful people who work like dogs all year round, but without those "tools" they will not be able to subsist.
I have only grown organic and all their bugs/blights and critters come to our land so I have had to develop methods to not lose our whole crop and orchard to japanese beetles, potato bugs, and on and on. Also have to fight the varmints they kill with the sprays. These methods are small scale (2-3 acres to 1000 of theirs) but are readily available and just take really hard work.
Our goal each year is "to reach the crop" meaning one year's harvest lasts until the next. Each year it is a balancing act. But between the formerly wild items we now harvest and cultivate, the seed saving, the better use of tools (mostly non-gas and non-electric) it is becoming a reality. We have wanted to have enough to "barter" for meat/chicken but we certainly could live off our wild life.
The key for us would be defense: banding together with neighbors as we are SO far apart in acreage. But we have developed a small like-minded friend/neighbor set and we hope our kids& their spouses would join us. Also some very handy family members living in state but not close. Most everyone in our family in WI grew up hunting (so they can gut/skin/filet their catch), fishing (so they can skin and bone fish) and/or gardening so have the tools and would need to learn to work hard at things they took for granted.
We believe we have shelter pretty ready. Enuf said...
Just because they won't HUNT AND KILL PEOPLE, doesn't mean they wouldn't DEFEND themselves!!
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I agree! A God fearing man will protect his Family & these people Know the old ways, are worth their weight in Gold after SHTF.
No training needed, no youtube for people who live the life, they just know what to do.
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I will tell you that some would and some wouldn't. But there's enough of us english that would stand up for this way of life, too.
If its winter time..I think I'd just stay put at first n not venture farther than my road and the neighbors on it.
First big snow most folks are stuck where they are unless they have alternative transportation.
I think alot of folks who are not prepared would likely resort to poaching livestock and the local elk first around here.
Once the snow melts, I think that's when alot of folks would start acting more desparate..however the people who didnt survive the cold ..those homes and the homes of the snowbirds who spend winters in warmer climates would be raised first.
I'm still amazed at how many folks rely on electric heat out here and have no back up, either a gennie or wood stove.
Power goes out..it will take a ton of calories to do what it will require to survive a winter in a frozen house with no fuel to burn to melt snow or cook food for even a few months of winter.
Can it be done..yes..but damb..good luck.
First big snow most folks are stuck where they are unless they have alternative transportation.
I think alot of folks who are not prepared would likely resort to poaching livestock and the local elk first around here.
Once the snow melts, I think that's when alot of folks would start acting more desparate..however the people who didnt survive the cold ..those homes and the homes of the snowbirds who spend winters in warmer climates would be raised first.
I'm still amazed at how many folks rely on electric heat out here and have no back up, either a gennie or wood stove.
Power goes out..it will take a ton of calories to do what it will require to survive a winter in a frozen house with no fuel to burn to melt snow or cook food for even a few months of winter.
Can it be done..yes..but damb..good luck.
Winter would buy some of us more time for sure. The south could get on with trouble making right from the get go.
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Being equally yoked is more important than folks realize.
Not sure what you mean by being equally yoked.
Too me that's a team of oxen hooked up to a wagon or plough.
Too me that's a team of oxen hooked up to a wagon or plough.
I think that's what she means except not oxen but people.
