A preview of the U.S. without pensions

[Sentry18]

Awwww Muffin. you did it to yourself lol

The juice was worth the squeeze.

 

[The Lazy L]

I WILL be debt free BEFORE I retire. 5 more months and I'll be debt free. 401K is self managed and thanks to the confidence Trump projects, record earnings this year. Thank you Sir!

2 years ago I qualified (85 rule) for 100% of my Employer's pension. Pension plan is managed by a respected coop. Social security (designed to be a SUPPLEMENT income) will be a bonus for us.

On retirement I think I'll get a part time job at a hardware for pocket money. And to torment Snowflakes into believing that there are really left and right handed hammers!


Co-worker is talking about retiring next year. They got a second mortgage on their house and lake cottage to buy a third house. Rent the third house to pay of their mortgages is their plan. It's been over a year and they haven't made the repairs to enable them to rent the third house. Borrowed against their 401K for cruises and the newest electronic gadgets.

 

[joel]

I did all my investing, my father in law did a lot also, but never told anyone.
Eight years after he died, five years after his wife died, five children was still getting money from two different plans.
I sent most of my payment from my check so I, nor anyone else could forget to pay them first.
Wife did not like not having control, but now the cars are paid for, the house is paid off & we have a tax on the land.
So I think she is glad it worked out.

 

[Country Living]

I've got a close relative who is turning 50. They bought a $300k house two years ago, have student loans and credit card debt, two expensive cars they bought used (two years old), and have small kids who get anything they want. They leave all the lights on in the house which drives me nuts.

When I turned 50 I had just paid off the mortgage on the house after owning it for 12 years, had no consumer debt, saved more than I spent, and I never drove a used car that cost more than $10k. Sold the house, used some money from savings, and paid cash for a ranch. We're still debt-free.

I was very fortunate to learn a hard lesson in my younger years when I barely got by from paycheck to paycheck: you can be young and poor and recover from it; you can't recover if you're old and poor. That early lesson was to spend less than I earned. I lived below my means (basic housing, transportation, clothing, didn't buy things that needed dusting, brown-bagged lunch, etc.) That lifestyle allowed me to comfortably retire at 55. That being said, it helped I had a pension and health insurance and a whole lot of money in an IRA.

On a side note: when I bought the house, the banker told me I qualified for a $200k loan (this was in the late 80s) and he just couldn't understand why I chose an $80k house.

 

[fteter]

I figured out about 30 years ago that any corporate pension was unreliable - back when McDonnell Douglas stiffed retirees on pensions and medical coverage back in the 1990s and the courts let it stand. Been preparing for a self-funded retirement ever since. Social Security and Medicare will be great supplements if they’re still around in another 5 or 6 years when I retire, but I can make it work without them.

I won’t be one of those folks retiring to a beach-front McMansion by any stretch, but the wife and I will be OK as long as we’re prudent.

 

[Weedygarden]

I've got a close relative who is turning 50. They bought a $300k house two years ago, have student loans and credit card debt, two expensive cars they bought used (two years old), and have small kids who get anything they want. They leave all the lights on in the house which drives me nuts.

When I turned 50 I had just paid off the mortgage on the house after owning it for 12 years, had no consumer debt, saved more than I spent, and I never drove a used car that cost more than $10k. Sold the house, used some money from savings, and paid cash for a ranch. We're still debt-free.

I was very fortunate to learn a hard lesson in my younger years when I barely got by from paycheck to paycheck: you can be young and poor and recover from it; you can't recover if you're old and poor. That early lesson was to spend less than I earned. I lived below my means (basic housing, transportation, clothing, didn't buy things that needed dusting, brown-bagged lunch, etc.) That lifestyle allowed me to comfortably retire at 55. That being said, it helped I had a pension and health insurance and a whole lot of money in an IRA.

On a side note: when I bought the house, the banker told me I qualified for a $200k loan (this was in the late 80s) and he just couldn't understand why I chose an $80k house.

They don't get it. The insurance people, the real estate people, the bankers want you to live just at the edge of your means. Several years ago, I was talking to my home insurance man and he wanted to know what I owed on my house, which was little, in comparison to the value. Then he asked me again what I owed, because evidently, what I owed on my house in comparison to the value was quite novel to him. He said, "That is all you owe?" "Yes." If you own a $500,000 home, evidently that is about what they expect you to owe as well, Or a $50,000 home, you should owe $50,000.
That seems to be the American way now, and if you think otherwise, they want you to change your thinking, and to live on the brink of financial ruin.

 

[MoBookworm1957]

The only debt I have is my new to me 2015 Fiat 500 lounge.
Red and ivory heated leather seats, leather trim, sun roof,heated mirrors,heated headlights,
Beats stereo,trunk, automatic.
41 miles on it when I bought it.
Just now has 2167 miles.
This is the first new to me car I have bought on my own.
I have money in savings, checking.
I don't go out much,do spoil my grand daughter Estelle.
With my time, not with material things. Have started her a savings account.
This car is my retirement gift to myself.

 

[tiffanysgallery]

Visited a friend's friend's mother at an assistant living community over two years ago, and the subject of cost came up in conversation. It looked as if the mother could stay until she ran out of money, of course,... and then the plan of the children was to sign their mother over to the state, making the mother a ward of the state, so the state would make the payments for the care. Since i didn't want to pry into this families business, i stopped by the front desk on my way out to inquire as to the cost of this assistant living community. I was shocked to hear $2500 + a month for a studio apt. I asked how can residents afford rent?, and i was told that most residents worked all their lives, had no children, and just saved everything they made over their lifetime. I also asked about elderly people who need assistance, but couldn't afford an assistant living community, what would they do? and i was told they were, either living with their family, or the state places them into a nursing home at about $6,000+ a month. Found out later that if a child does not want to care for their parent(s), the option of signing the parent over to the state is common. It takes a doctors signature, and the child/ren refusal to give any decisions/monies towards the care of their parent, so then a judge assigns a state guardian to their parent. If i understand it right, it looks like, the way of taking care of the elderly, and dealing with the magnitude of such costs, is put on the state and not necessarily the family.

 

[Weedygarden]

Visited a friend's friend's mother at an assistant living community over two years ago, and the subject of cost came up in conversation. It looked as if the mother could stay until she ran out of money, of course,... and then the plan of the children was to sign their mother over to the state, making the mother a ward of the state, so the state would make the payments for the care. Since i didn't want to pry into this families business, i stopped by the front desk on my way out to inquire as to the cost of this assistant living community. I was shocked to hear $2500 + a month for a studio apt. I asked how can residents afford rent?, and i was told that most residents worked all their lives, had no children, and just saved everything they made over their lifetime. I also asked about elderly people who need assistance, but couldn't afford an assistant living community, what would they do? and i was told they were, either living with their family, or the state places them into a nursing home at about $6,000+ a month. Found out later that if a child does not want to care for their parent(s), the option of signing the parent over to the state is common. It takes a doctors signature, and the child/ren refusal to give any decisions/monies towards the care of their parent, so then a judge assigns a state guardian to their parent. If i understand it right, it looks like, the way of taking care of the elderly, and dealing with the magnitude of such costs, is put on the state and not necessarily the family.

I have had conversations about this with a few people. If the parents have a house or other property that can be converted for available monies, that comes into play. In some instances, adult children of aging parents are working to get the property of their parents, so that it is not lost for the care of the parents. This has to be done in a certain time frame. In some families, children are busy fighting over who gets what so they never get their ducks in a row soon enough to be able to prevent the estate from going for care of the aged parents.

I garden with a man who is an estate planner. He told me that almost daily he deals with situations where one adult child of a family wants to get all of the estate and to block the siblings from getting any. Somehow, they think it is okay and their right.

One person I know was an only child, and as her parents were failing, she moved in with them, and after 2 years, their house became hers. I am not sure how that process happened. Her parents were both put in some type of care because of medical needs where they eventually died. Their house was now the daughters so couldn't be taken for their care. I was talking to someone else whose mother is in a similar situation, not fully able to live on her own, and the family farm, A 100 year farm, has been fairly divided among the 5 adult children. This woman told me that living in the home for 2 years is no longer allowed, it is now 5 years.

 

[Amish Heart]

I've been going through total craziness concerning my mom and one sister in particular...she drugged mom, put her in a dementia home and intended to file for guardianship and taking everything. Her home, antiques, savings...so husband and I went to California and sprung her out. She is now just her normal crazy for being 85 and living in her own one bedroom apt with assisted help right at her door when she needs it. It's a great place. Independence and help. And fun activities. She pays 950 a month for rent, and 100 a month for a nurse to check on her a few times a week, arrange appts for her and fill her med container weekly. She has social security and a work pension (small), and alot in savings. Her social security and pension pay her rent and bills. She lived with us for four months but insisted on her own place. She thinks I'm too bossy.

 

[viking]

Wife and I got debt free shortly after attending an off shore conference in Cancun in 2001, it was all about freedom and economics. We met and talked to some very smart people there and it set us off on a long term study of economics. It's an amazing feeling to be debt free where each dollar spent feels it buys as much as a $10 bill and when things get more expensive, it feels good that you have prepared for things to be that way. Not that everything is perfect, but it's a dang sight better being prepped now and for the future as best as we can be. We are able to do a lot of things that we otherwise couldn't have done before learning what we did.

 

[elkhound]

from jan28,2018....lots of lessons here...i will give yall time to watch this..if you do...before i start on the what if's and shoulda,coulda and what i would do.

 

[Sunshine]

This is why we've been working hard to get rid of all our debt. We just paid off a small loan( had $400 to go so we just paid it off yesterday) and have one more to go. But with paying off the one we just did we can take that money and put it towards the last one. Then we'll be completely out of debt.

That's our goal too. We are planning for a debt free retirement. 7k of personal debt left should be payed off in year or two depending on how gazelle intense we are. House will be payed off in ten years making min payments so we will definitely be debt free by the time we are ready to stop working.

We plan our retirement free of SS. If it's still around in 20 years, it will just be gravy. We don't live beyond our means and we budget based on Dave Ramsey s theory that you " live like no one else now so you can live like no one else later."

It helps neither of us participates in pop culture so I have no reason to keep up with anyone. We have what we need and get what we want. Our wants are just very different from most.

 

[phideaux]

That's our goal too. We are planning for a debt free retirement. 7k of personal debt left should be payed off in year or two depending on how gazelle intense we are. House will be payed off in ten years making min payments so we will definitely be debt free by the time we are ready to stop working.

We plan our retirement free of SS. If it's still around in 20 years, it will just be gravy. We don't live beyond our means and we budget based on Dave Ramsey s theory that you " live like no one else now so you can live like no one else later."

It helps neither of us participates in pop culture so I have no reason to keep up with anyone. We have what we need and get what we want. Our wants are just very different from most.

Not that what I think or say matters,

But, that is very wise.

That's what we did, (married 51 1/2 years) and we are living comfortable....for us.



Jim

 

[PopPopT]

Just bought a new place back in November. We had to get a mortgage. Didn't see any way around that in any practical terms that made sense to us. I hated having to do that because otherwise, we are debt free. It's a 30 year mortgage but I have devised a pretty simple plan to pay it off in about half the time, or less if I can. It's possible that we won't even keep the place for 15 years and if that should be the case, we should be building some pretty serious equity as I do some fixing up and redoing of some things that really weren't done so well to begin with.

I don't like that our retirement income is mostly from a pension and Social (in)Security. But that's the reality of it. I plan to work towards having some income from the place though I know it's not going to be living large. I have garden space and a little more I can add to it. And I have buildings that I can use for other possible income producing things. I have no intention of sitting down in the ol' recliner (actually, don't even own one right now) and fading off into the sunset. I like to keep busy with things I enjoy, things like woodworking and gardening and messing with chickens, fun stuff, at least to me. I know some people look at those kinds of things and see a burden. I'm weird, I actually enjoy mowing the grass. LOL!

 

[hiwall]

We make decisions every week of our lives that can and do effect our retirement. With the countless decisions everyone is bound to make some wrong ones. But if you get it right enough you should still be OK.
We just bought this house I am now sitting in six months ago. Before buying I researched many places in which to move in a few states. This county has Very low property taxes and I don't see that changing. Owning your own home will not help you if there comes a time when you cannot pay the property taxes. Just one of the countless decisions a person has to make.

 

[NannyPatty]

Just bought a new place back in November. We had to get a mortgage. Didn't see any way around that in any practical terms that made sense to us. I hated having to do that because otherwise, we are debt free. It's a 30 year mortgage but I have devised a pretty simple plan to pay it off in about half the time, or less if I can. It's possible that we won't even keep the place for 15 years and if that should be the case, we should be building some pretty serious equity as I do some fixing up and redoing of some things that really weren't done so well to begin with.

I don't like that our retirement income is mostly from a pension and Social (in)Security. But that's the reality of it. I plan to work towards having some income from the place though I know it's not going to be living large. I have garden space and a little more I can add to it. And I have buildings that I can use for other possible income producing things. I have no intention of sitting down in the ol' recliner (actually, don't even own one right now) and fading off into the sunset. I like to keep busy with things I enjoy, things like woodworking and gardening and messing with chickens, fun stuff, at least to me. I know some people look at those kinds of things and see a burden. I'm weird, I actually enjoy mowing the grass. LOL!

Lol, you sound like my hubby!! He loves mowing, messing with our chickens, making stuff in our garage ie. shop. He enjoys our raised bed garden, and being out in the woods. We just have SS and his pension, as well. We owe on my car and still a little on our house (because we needed to make repairs , roof, siding, etc. or, it would have remained paid for). We're considering downsizing on property and home due to his health. If we do, we'll pay outright and not borrow for the home at least.

 

[PopPopT]

... Before buying I researched many places in which to move in a few states. This county has Very low property taxes and I don't see that changing. Owning your own home will not help you if there comes a time when you cannot pay the property taxes. Just one of the countless decisions a person has to make.

That is definitely something I looked at when we moved where we did. You're absolutely right, you can never pay off property taxes!

My dad and brother would love for me and my wife to move back to Lancaster County, PA. We even looked at a couple of places there when we stayed with mom & dad, before mom died. Property taxes on a comparable place to what we bought here in TN would have been about 7-8X as much. And even if we could afford to buy a place outright, those taxes NEVER get paid off, EVER.

The place we moved to is in one of the lower property tax counties in the area. We're only a mile or so from the next county over, though, which would have nearly doubled the taxes.

I'd have loved to have gotten onto a place with enough acreage that we would be considered a "farm" as that would mean the taxes we're paying for our 3.5 acres would be about the same as what we'd pay for something around a 20 acre farm, at least provided the houses were comparable and the barns not extravagant.

 

[PopPopT]

Not that what I think or say matters,

But, that is very wise.

That's what we did, (married 51 1/2 years) and we are living comfortable....for us.



Jim

We're coming up on 17 years, 2nd time around for both of us. Very happily married!

We're comfortable, too. We had a little over a decade of fulltime RV living after Hurricane Katrina wiped out our house in south Louisiana. So we're accustomed to living with a whole lot less "stuff" than most people. It was very odd moving into a house again. Much of it is still pretty sparse but that's OK. We don't really need a lot of stuff. And more stuff doesn't mean we're happier.

We're definitely odd compared to much of the world. We have 2 vehicles with a total of over 500,000 miles on them, but they still run so we're hangin' in there with them for a while longer. We have pretty much zero jewelry. We have a tiny TV and no cable or satellite. (Our extravagance is high speed internet. LOL!) We have no fancy clothes and don't want any. We don't eat at fancy restaurants. We have no fancy electronics. (Our cell phones are practically antiques.) Seriously, if a burglar decided to break in and steal all of our stuff, they'd be pretty disappointed. Many of our "treasures" are things that we use all the time that I really doubt they'd be looking for to collect some quick cash. I doubt they'd want to haul off the pressure canners and the shelf of Mason jars...

I kinda like it that way. Not as much stuff to own me.

 

[buildit]

In the 50's thru the early 80's the economy saw large companies who continued to grow flush with money paying reliably upon their pensions and this made some long term employees very well to do when they had not really saved anything for retirements. They were the poster children of the investment gurus who were directing these same large companies into riskier waters with these huge cash assets just "sitting" there. Of course if you lived thru the 90s you saw these companies die with the beginning of the modern computer era. Large pension funds evaporated as companies redirected them to reinvest into their dying bureaucracies.
My dad was an accountant but became successful doing investment planning as an insurance salesman. Yeah, in insurance? Well, with his financial background he could do more than just show people a good policy that didn't disappear the moment you missed a payment (he hated those and never sold them). He showed people the little tricks of responsible investing, risk assessments and why their debt was killing them. Most policies he sold were bought with "found money" he helped clients realize after changing other investments and financial habits.
Most people would be financially okay if the learned to control their spending and learned to watch their investments. There is no such thing as a sure thing and the smart investor knows the risks, so he NEVER puts all his eggs in one basket. :thumbs up:

 

[Caribou]

I don't trust retirement. Companies go bankrupt and so do governments. Detroit is not the only municipality to default on their retirements and many states are on the ragged edge. We all know how precarious SS is. Venezuela is just one recent example of a failed State.

The trick is to diversify, in my opinion. It was explained to me this way. If you have one income and it brings you $100/mo and it fails then you have nothing. If you have 100 incomes that each bring you $1/mo and one fails then you still have $99.

Retirements are great if they are part of a larger plan including savings and other income.

Live under your means. We bought this house less than two and a half years ago. We will have it paid for this year or next. We pay cash for cars.

 

[Sunshine]

So true what pp says about property tax. That's why we wanted to settle down here. The taxes are for one year what we payed in rent for one month in town.

 

[hiwall]

Look at Illinois. They are way in debt, their pension funds are Way under-funded, they are taxing people into moving away. Last year the state lost a person every five minutes. Their bond rating is just barely above junk status. They dug themselves into a very hole and there is no way out.

 

[Sunshine]

Yup.cook county taxes EVERYTHING!

Our bills here are so low compared to the city. We actually have less income but more $ after covering out living expenses.

 

[Caribou]

Our property taxes are low and we do most of our shopping over the net or in the communities close by with no sales tax.

 

[CluelessKai]

Look at Illinois. They are way in debt, their pension funds are Way under-funded, they are taxing people into moving away. Last year the state lost a person every five minutes. Their bond rating is just barely above junk status. They dug themselves into a very hole and there is no way out.

I can vouch for that! I'm only here til my youngest finishes school. Then it's gonna be wherever I can make the most of what I have. I'll stop there before I get on a rant.

 

[PopPopT]

...so he NEVER puts all his eggs in one basket. :thumbs up:

Something I saw quite a lot when I lived among the Amish was that they seldom have a single business going but mostly have several going at the same time. Quite a few of those little farms had a small dairy herd, chickens, a market garden, an orchard, a woodworking shop, a small engine repair shop, a little health food store, a hardware or farm supply type store, a sawmill, or numerous others all mixed up together. None of those little businesses had to make their entire living but if one of them failed completely, there were usually several others that kept plugging along just fine. Not all of the "eggs" were in one "basket". It's something that's largely been lost to much of the population.

 

[LastO]

The only debt we have left is our home and we should have that paid off within 5-6 years. We could pay it off today but out investments (especially since January 2017) are making more money than we are paying in interest on our mortgage. A nice problem to have.

If something does go wrong and we lose our pensions, it will be nice to know we own our home, we own our vehicles, we have no real debts and we have a room full of long term food stores and other supplies.

Being debt free is a great thing however it does have a drawback. Once you no longer have credit cards and bank payments then shortly thereafter you have no credit. If you do need to make a major purchase on credit you can not as your credit rating has vanished due to not making credit payments. I am debt free as well as my gal. Our home and all land and vehicles are paid off.

 

[Sentry18]

Being debt free is a great thing however it does have a drawback. Once you no longer have credit cards and bank payments then shortly thereafter you have no credit. If you do need to make a major purchase on credit you can not as your credit rating has vanished due to not making credit payments. I am debt free as well as my gal. Our home and all land and vehicles are paid off.

I don't see that as drawback. I don't care about the credit system because I don't need the credit system. I haven't made a purchase on credit in the last 13 years and that won't be changing anytime soon. We pay cash for everything. And since we don't feed the banks, credit card companies and others who suck profits off of our hard earned money; we are able to put a substantial amount into savings each month.

 

[hiwall]

You don't have to be in debt to have good credit. We have been debt free for many years yet we have excellent credit. A good credit rating saves you money on many things. Insurance is just one.