All your food is gone

[elkhound]

 

[Hardcalibres]

Where you are located was unsurvivable and you stayed too long.

 

[Amish Heart]

Well, I'd start some butchering. And I get 2 1/2 to 3 dz eggs a day. If it's now and no chicken, turkey, goose, rabbit food....I'd have to get busy picking greens and digging grubs. Luckily we have enough, but it'd be time consuming. I must have 4 acres of dandelions right now, and 10 acres of alfalfa. Winter time, not so good. Our fruit trees (10 of them) are flowering, but no fruit till way later. Growing in the greenhouse right now are just greens...swiss chard, green onion, lettuce, spinach, and chives that I could cut. Right now I pick 8 buckets of greens for our animals every morning to save on commercial feed, so they are used to eating it. Neighbor has a milk cow and about 40 others that are in our back pasture. We have pigeon and doves in our roundtop and second floor of the barn. I'd trap those.

 

[Wingnut]

I'm having a hard time with the unrealistic scenario described by this guy... anybody who took your supplies would probably have taken the animals as well, or camped out right there until the last critter was BBQ'd. The whole notion of thieves taking supplies can be countered with good home defense strategy... make it difficult for thieves to steal your stuff, and they're gonna move on to an easier target, or DIE trying to bag your things. This is where being a good rifleman pays off: you make thieves suffer for their transgressions, and you remain defiant to the end. Having plenty of ammo helps, lol... why do ya think so many folks are stocking up on it? Frankly, I think cannibalism may come into play in some areas, since some homes won't be overrun and plenty of corpses will be lying around... maybe that'll be the new thing in foodie programs, how many ways you can spice up a corpse that has been sitting in the sun for a day or two, lol. Dang, where's MAGUS when I need him? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

The 'Fire & Smoke Society' makes a pretty good "Thundering Longhorn Beef Rub"---I'm thinking it would probably work just fine on human corpses, lol. The only remaining questions: "1) Which cuts do you prefer? 2) White meat or dark meat?"

Edit: Here's a clip from 'THE GREEN INFERNO' just to get y'all started, LOL...

The Green Inferno

 

[dademoss]

I's sorry, his initial premise is too far out to even address. "Somehow"? all the food vanished without violence. NOT gonna happen here.

 

[Amish Heart]

Well, I don't know. Alot of people would rather open up a can of ravioli than butcher something so it wouldn't be that weird for people to leave animals. You'd be surprised how many amish women will dress a chicken, but not kill one. It surprised me. So I'm the designated killer if we're butchering. And our tom turkeys and geese are downright intimidating if they don't know you, and you are not me.
I just remembered....there's 90 acres of winter wheat across the road from me, too. It's not ready yet, but close. And the fowl would eat that. Our barn cats, though, have been doing a great job on mousing, that'd be slim pickings. And our dogs....wouldn't be much extra for them.
I doubt this would happen, but it is interesting to come up with a plan with what you have growing. Winter would be awful, though.

 

[sonya123]

Well, I don't know. Alot of people would rather open up a can of ravioli than butcher something so it wouldn't be that weird for people to leave animals. You'd be surprised how many amish women will dress a chicken, but not kill one.

yeah....I make husband butcher the chickens, the goats and sheep go to the meat processor and son has to put down animals if they need to be because of injury or something

 

[Hardcalibres]

If in a very severe crisis where the ROL has failed, unprepared people successfully raid houses/farms, then you should expect that will almost certainly involve violence and end in scorched earth.

The premise that you will still have the resources, gardens, crops and livestock you need to make more food after such a raid is very unrealistic. If your food production systems survive the raid then it will be because the attacker has enslaved you and your family to work as hostage slaves/laborers to make the conquerors more food into the future.

If you are somewhere that experiences such raids, then you will either successfully fight off such raids or you will not.

The vast majority of people are not prepared or cut out for what that would require. What most people lack is the mindset, capability, skillset, material resources, physical fitness and situation to make that work.

 

[elkhound]

Where you are located was unsurvivable and you stayed too long.

says man stuck in Africa at jobsite and now theres no ships or flights crossing the Atlantic and home base is filled with herds and food storage....lol

you gotta face the facts...theres only so many places and if everyone moved..well those spots would be just like where they left with same population density or possibly worse.

looking at modern collapses...the vast majority has not left and in fact in Venezuela case many who fled to surrounding countries have been returning because they are no longer allowed to work in those places and even at that the locals are not hiring them because they are not from the country they are in.


well over 90% has stayed in Venezuela and they been grinding out daily life and needs.as of 2 years ago they even are starting to using the failed worthless currency again.i am not saying it wasnt bad or is bad and theres no violence etc.look at Russia in 90's. i seen photos from guy was there visiting from u.s. in early 90's. food was there but no way of moving it.even in Ukraine...the majority stayed. even bombing couldnt move some people.unless bombs are raining down directly people will stay put looking at history.

people want to holler move etc. its physically not possible for large portions of populations to move..logistics. how many plane loads would it take to move even a large city? flights or even ship loads would take months and months.just example we couldnt even get the few troops out of Afghanistan easily and fast enough. yet even there after chaos was over the people are grinding out daily lives.

some may need or want to flee and thats the answer but infrastructure in any given area has its limits and can only handle so many new faces showing up and grocery stores that are use to ordering xyz stuff will have to up inventory to service those people. moving might not be answer especially if its shtf..i know..i know ..move before it happens. even then theres only so many rental trucks,moving vans etc or even motel rooms. hell i was traveling once and stopped in kansas city and had to hunt and hunt to get a room. i asked what was going on and they said the beach boys had a concert and all motels were filled with 1,000's of visitors for concert.i know..... have a tent and problem solved...no not always...lol....you better have some type of connection to an area that way you can hit their couch or whatever.

look at sri lanka..you think you could move all those people off that island...logistics...22million...cruise ship holds 5k..how many ship loads would it take? not possible....4400 ship loads of people at 5k each..how long would that take? not going to happen.easiest solution stay put and get busy and get shipments of grain brought in to port.

so we need solutions...what are they

very first thing for me in a shtf deal is set incubator full of eggs. it gets the ball rolling towards meat and eggs.it takes care of itself mostly at least in the beginning and its just one of many items towards producing for yourself.

8 billion people cant be shuffled very easily. just look at troubles in europe .

blah blah blah....from me

dave is trying to feed a cow...easier to feed a milk goat.theres a reason poor people living on very low grade lands across the globe have sheep and goats.

 

[sonya123]

unless you have a small army to defend what you have, or are remote enough where nobody will come looking , you are pretty much depending on luck to survive in an extreme country wide or world wide SHTF scenario
So I don't worry about it ( we do not have a small army)

 

[sonya123]

dave is trying to feed a cow...easier to feed a milk goat.theres a reason poor people living on very low grade lands across the globe have sheep and goats.

That is very true. Plus I take our goats up the mountain free ranging and they come back when I call them, not sure you can do that with a cow

 

[elkhound]

Well, I don't know. Alot of people would rather open up a can of ravioli than butcher something so it wouldn't be that weird for people to leave animals. You'd be surprised how many amish women will dress a chicken, but not kill one. It surprised me. So I'm the designated killer if we're butchering. And our tom turkeys and geese are downright intimidating if they don't know you, and you are not me.
I just remembered....there's 90 acres of winter wheat across the road from me, too. It's not ready yet, but close. And the fowl would eat that. Our barn cats, though, have been doing a great job on mousing, that'd be slim pickings. And our dogs....wouldn't be much extra for them.
I doubt this would happen, but it is interesting to come up with a plan with what you have growing. Winter would be awful, though.

its a mental exercise to force people to think....its being missed i think.

friend over at old forum he used birdfoot trefoil and other legumes to feed out chickens and ducks to butcher and got to point of 80% feed savings . so it can stretch a bag of grain out for sure.

in very low grade soils i have vetch growing and it puts protein in my belly in form of food for deer and turkey since they feed on it.they especially hit it hard in fall/early winter.

 

[Sourdough]

For "MOST" prepping is a Hobby, not a full'on commitment to their survival, and the survival of their "Loved Ones".

I have for the last several years considered Prepping Forums to be directly opposed to "Prepping for Survival". It is sick, sad and repulsive.

 

[Wingnut]

Not sure I agree with certain statements... here in Redneck Land, most folks are indeed armed, and it's gonna take awhile for any hungry mob to work its way through the area, and that mob will be sustaining casualties the whole time, lol. How long will it take before one of 'em says, "F#% it, let's just BBQ these corpses!" Remember, and I say this as a former Infantry soldier, it's not gonna be easy for the mob to hump gear and supplies (like ammo) over any great distances... I've done it, and it ain't exactly easy. Those who are entrenched in their homes or on their properties with a good defense strategy will stand a greater chance of survival... drop enough would-be attackers and the rest will look elsewhere, or start thinking how easy it would be to just BBQ Uncle Fred, Aunt Wilma, and the rest of the corpses just lying there ready to be roasted, lol. In any REAL SHTF SCENARIO, cannibalism WILL be a factor, make no bones about it... er... or maybe actually MAKE some bones, like friggin' SOUP BONES, lol.

P.S. I got dibs on Wilma, she should be mighty tasty with some of that Thundering Longhorn Beef Rub on her, lol...

 

[elkhound]

The vast majority of people are not prepared or cut out for what that would require. What most people lack is the mindset, capability, skillset, material resources, physical fitness and situation to make that work.

what you going to do when you get old and not capable of being top shelf survivor...adjust and live?

its going to happen to us all. best case is no shtf happens before we exit the planet.

simple exercise and people want to toss monkey wrenches in it or stick in the spoke..the way dave asked...what ya going to do?

oh and i love the ******** answer of i am going to eat dandelions..the hell you are. you cant live on it.its a diuretic.guy was on alone tried and he was so hungry he ate large amount and he was passing out from it. it was causing him to dehydrate from the amount he ate. me and grizz talked about this a bunch. when i hear people talk about dandelion i just shake my head. i have experimented on myself in several ways..eating just what was in garden say for several days as if something happened.i can tell you this you cant eat enough tomatoes to live and all you going to do is stay within 50yds of the toilet...lol

Swing has forum set on auto correct for BS to show word bologna....lol

 

[sonya123]

we are up on a mountain, so we will see them coming. Unlikely they will climb over the mountain from the other side it would be very hard. Plus we have the dogs to alert us. Plus, I really hate this, but we live in a mostly Amish community and not sure they will defend themselves...so they will get attacked first. I do hope they will defend themselves, but pretty sure it's against their religion
but everyone around here is armed, including them ( they hunt)
Some days it sounds like the civil war has started around here

 

[Hardcalibres]

what you going to do when you get old and not capable of being top shelf survivor...adjust and live?

Try to have younger friends who have the right skills and attitudes.

its going to happen to us all. best case is no shtf happens before we exit the planet.

Oh yeah....sooner than most think.

simple exercise and people want to toss monkey wrenches in it or stick in the spoke..the way dave asked...what ya going to do?

I actually read it as an unrealistic scenario intended to force a particular conclusion.........that you have to be growing food now.

I currently grow food on a commercial scale - but that system hardly figures in my preparedness plans because I know how difficult it would be to defend that system in a world that is starving.

oh and i love the bologna answer of i am going to eat dandelions..the hell you are. you cant live on it.its a diuretic.guy was on alone tried and he was so hungry he ate large amount and he was passing out from it. it was causing him to dehydrate from the amount he ate. me and grizz talked about this a bunch. when i hear people talk about dandelion i just shake my head. i have experimented on myself in several ways..eating just what was in garden say for several days as if something happened.i can tell you this you cant eat enough tomatoes to live and all you going to do is stay within 50yds of the toilet...lol

I very much agree.

Foraging a million calories per person per year is a very big challenge that most people can't/should not expect to succeed in.

The key for anyone trying to do that would be to be somewhere that the competition for such resources is extremely low.

 

[elkhound]

I currently grow food on a commercial scale - but that system hardly figures in my preparedness plans because I know how difficult it would be to defend that system in a world that is starving.

we view things very different...your commercial operation to me is #1.because things can get in very short supply and it not be a shtf deal of guns blazing and more.

bottom line i think what dave is trying to do for everyone is to think..what can i forage or grow or go about doing anything for MYSELF.

one thing i not see people talk about that have herds of livestock is feeding in winter. back in the day they didnt just put up tons of hay. they moved critters around. in a no fuel situation one way is to make sure south facing hills grow deep and lush and save it..called stockpiling...and this can be part of winter feeding until snow hits deep..if it hits..this will vary on locations. but sunny south side will be more open for winter grazing plus in mtn regions change in elevations for seasonal grazing etc.

over looked is tree fodder too.

the guy eating the roots and more actually passed out on camera and almost it his head falling backwards on a log and could have broke his neck or busted his skull open.he talked about it a bit after the show.

 

[Wingnut]

Joel Skousen said the same thing... get to where population density isn't such a big factor. But I think other factors will come into play in such a scenario: there will be an attrition rate in cities, cutting down the number of potential scavengers afterward. Fuel will become scarce, limiting mobility. Diseases will take their toll if water systems and whatnot are shut down... plus many folks just aren't equipped or prepared to live in the field, even for short periods of time. Then ya have hardcore militia members (and I ain't talkin' about any gubmint-related militia), who will be blowing strategic bridges and defending certain locations such as mountain passes, making it difficult for those on the other side to get through. I've seen some of those militia boyz in the White Mountains of Arizona, and they are well-armed... plus they have explosives, as demonstrated when the authorities discovered a cache of C-4 (over 90 sticks or butter bars) near Pine, AZ. So there are those factors to consider in any REAL SHTF situation... of course, the farther one is from all the grief, the better, but folks can't just up and leave their settled lives without a bug out plan. Most folks are tied to where they live by jobs, family, etc. They are just gonna have to deal with any crisis as best they can...

 

[Hardcalibres]

says man stuck in Africa at jobsite and now theres no ships or flights crossing the Atlantic and home base is filled with herds and food storage....lol

Lol indeed.

As I have posted before, I look at risk differently to most. But I actually think I would do OK in some of those far away places if I was stuck there in a crisis. I know how to get along with people and empirically, most of the people I work with in those places take an instant liking to me.

I only spend a few weeks a year offshore now.....and I am willing to take that risk for my own reasons. One of those reasons is that my work provides an almost unlimited budget for enhancing preparedness......so there is a tradeoff right there.

you gotta face the facts...theres only so many places and if everyone moved..well those spots would be just like where they left with same population density or possibly worse.

I expect that most people will not move until well after they should have. Many will move to the wrong places. Most will not be prepared to move and then survive where they end up. But I am not advocating making any of those mistakes.

looking at modern collapses...the vast majority has not left and in fact in Venezuela case many who fled to surrounding countries have been returning because they are no longer allowed to work in those places and even at that the locals are not hiring them because they are not from the country they are in.

Modern people are mostly dumb and afflicted with normalcy bias. They do not provide good role models for survivalists.

well over 90% has stayed in Venezuela and they been grinding out daily life and needs.as of 2 years ago they even are starting to using the failed worthless currency again.i am not saying it wasnt bad or is bad and theres no violence etc.look at Russia in 90's. i seen photos from guy was there visiting from u.s. in early 90's. food was there but no way of moving it.even in Ukraine...the majority stayed. even bombing couldnt move some people.unless bombs are raining down directly people will stay put looking at history.

I bet a bunch of upper middle class and better Venezuelans got out early with enough of their wealth to setup a new life somewhere much better. The media doesn't talk about them because that does not fit in with their pinko agenda/message.

people want to holler move etc. its physically not possible for large portions of populations to move..logistics. how many plane loads would it take to move even a large city? flights or even ship loads would take months and months.just example we couldnt even get the few troops out of Afghanistan easily and fast enough. yet even there after chaos was over the people are grinding out daily lives.

Agreed. Most won't leave......but that doesn't mean that is the best plan.

Not many of the refugees that came out of Afghanistan would like to go back.

some may need or want to flee and thats the answer but infrastructure in any given area has its limits and can only handle so many new faces showing up and grocery stores that are use to ordering xyz stuff will have to up inventory to service those people. moving might not be answer especially if its shtf..i know..i know ..move before it happens. even then theres only so many rental trucks,moving vans etc or even motel rooms. hell i was traveling once and stopped in kansas city and had to hunt and hunt to get a room. i asked what was going on and they said the beach boys had a concert and all motels were filled with 1,000's of visitors for concert.i know..... have a tent and problem solved...no not always...lol....you better have some type of connection to an area that way you can hit their couch or whatever.

I would not suggest people head for places with grocery stores etc except for a localized mild short term crisis like a hurricane.

look at sri lanka..you think you could move all those people off that island...logistics...22million...cruise ship holds 5k..how many ship loads would it take? not possible....4400 ship loads of people at 5k each..how long would that take? not going to happen.easiest solution stay put and get busy and get shipments of grain brought in to port.

I would rather the people of Sri Lanka stay where they are and work to fix their country. They wrecked it.....they should fix it.

so we need solutions...what are they

Develop all the key capabilities....including mobility.

very first thing for me in a shtf deal is set incubator full of eggs. it gets the ball rolling towards meat and eggs.it takes care of itself mostly at least in the beginning and its just one of many items towards producing for yourself.

Good idea.

8 billion people cant be shuffled very easily. just look at troubles in europe .

I would rather most of them stay where they are........and because of normalcy bias, most will.

blah blah blah....from me

Yep.....me too.

dave is trying to feed a cow...easier to feed a milk goat.theres a reason poor people living on very low grade lands across the globe have sheep and goats.

Yep. Running cattle (without any inputs from the outside) requires more land than most have for a homestead.

The goats in the worst parts of Africa eat cardboard.

 

[dademoss]

As always, we play the cards we are dealt, and we won't know what they are till the deal.

 

[Hardcalibres]

we view things very different...your commercial operation to me is #1.because things cant get in very short supply and it not be a shtf deal of guns blazing and more.

bottom line i think what dave is trying to do for everyone is to think..what can i forage or grow or go about doing anything for MYSELF.

one thing i not see people talk about that have herds of livestock is feeding in winter. back in the day they didnt just put up tons of hay. they moved critters around. in a no fuel situation one way is to make sure south facing hills grow deep and lush and save it..called stockpiling...and this can be part of winter feeding until snow hits deep..if it hits..this will vary on locations. but sunny south side will be more open for winter grazing plus in mtn regions change in elevations for seasonal grazing etc.

over looked is tree fodder too.

the guy eating the roots and more actually passed out on camera and almost it his head falling backwards on a log and could have broke his neck or busted his skull open.he talked about it a bit after the show.

Yep - if the inputs all went to zero, our place could support about 50-60% of the normal sized herd.

If a very severe crisis hits, my only charity/trading will be donating/bartering whatever we can't store from a big herd cull.

 

[Hardcalibres]

As always, we play the cards we are dealt, and we won't know what they are till the deal.

I don't accept that mindset.

Survivalism can be described as trying to improve your odds - and that requires you to first accept that you can actually change your odds.

In my experience, people mostly make their own luck - good or bad.

For example, some people get cancer just because of their genetics or bad luck, but a lot of them get cancer because of choices they made that increased their risk.

Winners never quit and quitters never win.

 

[Wingnut]

If it turns out that I made the wrong choices, I'll go down defiant to the end, lol... and when I run out of ammo, it'll be bow, slingshot, machete, knives, rocks, sharp sticks, etc. It's great that some folks live in remote locations & are totally prepped, but many of us are still working on our own situations. Somehow this fact seems to place us in a lower class, lol...

I'm still a good shot and I damned sure ain't no quitter, lol... I'll take as many with me as possible, and once I'm toast, all the Mad Max prepping in the world won't make a damned bit of difference, as it'll no longer be my problem. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't make a good victim, and I'm resourceful enough to solve many problems, but I'm not rich, lol.

 

[Sourdough]

what you going to do when you get old and not capable of being top shelf survivor...adjust and live?

Hell, I am there right now. To me I feel like a winner, to have achieved old age. To me the goal of survival is to live a long life. To me, my goal was to live a life of adventure. I am in the last stage of being alive, yet well satisfied I lived a great life for an American male.

To depart from earth, leaving behind a body that is 99.8% totally used-UP is a noble achievement. (Actually, requires a lot of work)

 

[Haertig]

I don't have a homestead where I would be raising animals and growing crops. Even if I had the homestead, I wouldn't have the skills to run the place. So my survival is dependent on the food I have packed away. As I've said in a couple of other threads, I am not interested in living for years in the post-apocalypse ruins. So I am only set for a few months. Intentionally.

But what I lack in skills for running a homestead, and lack in desire for surviving to be the last man on Earth - I counter with shooting marksmanship skills and solid home protection pre-planning. The odds are quite high that I could protect what I've got. And I would have no qualms in doing so. Even if I was down to my last can of beans and knew I would be expiring soon, I would still protect that. Not so much for myself since I'd be a short-timer at that point, but for my neighbors. Taking out the riffraff that would no doubt be planning to steal their stuff too. So my plans for survival - and how long I'd want to do that, and how I'd accomplish it - are quite different from the plans of most people here. But "to each his own", right?!

 

[Hardcalibres]

.......... The odds are quite high that I could protect what I've got. ..........

Please....please don't think I am picking on you but........

1) How bullet proof is your house? >95% of houses in the US do not provide cover from rifle fire.....without cover you won't last five minutes after any exchange of rifle fire starts.
2) Can you stand guard over your surroundings 24/7?
3) Can you watch all four sides of your house at once?
4) Can you see what is happening beyond the range of your lights at night? Should you even rely upon lights at night?
5) How long can you hold out in a siege?
6) How easy would it be to set your house on fire?
7) Can a vehicle get to any of the walls of your house?
8) How far is the nearest concealment from your house?
9) How far is the nearest cover from your house?

In current times, plenty of people try to hold up in their houses when they break laws and the police come for them - most don't even last a few hours. That is the case even where the police have quite restricted rules of engagement. They can't do most of the dirty tricks that a mob of people WROL could do......

The average team the police used to assault a house is only half a dozen guys. Hungry people are likely to be most of the population around you. In the suburbs, that would be hundreds of people.

 

[Pearl]

Eating ALL available animals!!

 

[dademoss]

I don't accept that mindset.

Survivalism can be described as trying to improve your odds - and that requires you to first accept that you can actually change your odds.

In my experience, people mostly make their own luck - good or bad.

For example, some people get cancer just because of their genetics or bad luck, but a lot of them get cancer because of choices they made that increased their risk.

Winners never quit and quitters never win.

Accept or not, in the end the survival rate is ZERO.

Your approval and/or acceptance is neither sought nor required.

 

[Sourdough]

Eating ALL available animals!!

Realistically how long would that last.....??? Six months, Three years, Five years and nine months......???