Are we maturing as prepper?

[Squirtgunsquirter]

All of us. Here on the site.

Where are we at?

Let's face it, the things we talk about most now, certainly aren't what was being talked about in 2016. Not even on other forums.

In 2016, people were TALKING about (not sure if anyone was doing it) building bug out vehicles with improvised armor, turning their homes into ****y trap filled death houses, digging WWI style trenches in their property, burying supply caches all over (I've actually done this, a couple) having BOL's, and backup locations. The list goes on, some of it seems more reasonable than others.

So, what do we think now, as 2018 comes to a close? What are you prepping for, has your focus changed, have you stopped prepping? Have you reached a point where you feel that you are as prepared as you can get?

What do you think will be the focus in 2019? Not asking for your fears, but that's fine too. Asking, what, if anything, are you specifically preparing for? Any changes in plan? Can you share those plans?

Prepping, as a movement, has been around for a while. There are "prepper camps" and things, established companies who cater to the prepping market, the movement seems to be around for the long term.

Do you think prepping is still growing?

Do you think you are still growing as a prepper?

What's most important? Skills, or stuff?

If skills, what skills are you building and how?

If stuff, what do plan on buying?

Thanks for any replies. It's hard to get the big picture, from the daily prep thread.

 

[tmttactical]

@Squirtgunsquirter

Yes I do think that as a community we are maturing. The Mad Max (no disrespect to our new member) stuff has faded a bit and the realization that food, water, clothes, ect. takes priority to fighting off the zombies. Yes I still love my guns and do plan for a completed collapse of society, with that being said, I stock pile all the absolutes. So a few answers to your questions.

Do you think prepping is still growing?
I do think prepping is still growing but at a slightly slower and more rational direction.

Do you think you are still growing as a prepper?
I am constantly growing as a prepper, especially since I joined this forum. More intelligent and diverse topics.

What's most important? Skills, or stuff?
Anybody that thinks stuff is better than skills, is not a prepper and will be DOA when the SHTF. Stuff breaks, gets lost, stolen, or just expires. Knowledge is forever.

If skills, what skills are you building and how?
My weak area is agriculture, so I am reading tons. Once I relocate, then I will start on developing actual hands on skills. I am a retired Facilities Operation Director, so I am experienced with all phases of buildings and structures and how to maintain them, got the tools and skills needed. How to raise food and critters will be the skill I have to develop.

If stuff, what do plan on buying?
Now stuff is not as important as skills but having some stuff is beneficial too. With that in mind, I am collecting Firearms, Reloading equipment, wood and metal working equipment. Still -alcohol - making equipment, seeds, hand type farming tools and food prep (dehydrator, canning, etc.) equipment.

I hope that gets the ball rolling, good topic and good questions.

 

[Brent S]

I still prep for the same things as before, everything. Well, almost everything, no radiation or gas stuff. I figure if those happen just run, fast....
I truly feel that there will be an economic collapse followed by civil unrest and lawlessness. This will also lead to loss of the grid and public utilities. I’m in my fifties, so hope it happens after I’m gone, but imagine I will see it before then. No one has a crystal ball though. Could be tomorrow or in tens of years, but I’m certain it will happen, as it has through history. As far as what to prep for, keep it simple. Think of what you need in life. Water, food, shelter, and security, in that order. Everything else is gravy. Keep in mind that while stockpiling food and supplies is good for short term emergencies, knowing how to replenish your food and stuff is more important. No matter how much you amass it will run out or get stolen or damaged. Knowing how to make things, grow food, raise animals, treat wounds and the like are skills that need to be learned. Right now it’s really easy to learn all this, just ask google. After there is no internet access that won’t be the case, so take this opportunity now and learn some new things. Hey, if I’m wrong and the world continues along for 100 yrs or more, great. At least you will be able to treat your child when they have a bike accident, or grow fresh tomatoes that taste so much better than the crap from Walmart. Learning isn’t just for the bad ‘what ifs’.

 

[lonewolf]

I believe the loss of the electric grid will precede any societal collapse and lawlessness, most of the population will be able to survive up to that point but once the power goes off that means no fuel at filling stations so no food deliveries to the stores, no fridges or freezers so any food they have will spoil, and heavens above...no internet and no mobile phones...what will they do??
anyone can survive minor events or even larger ones but once the power goes off that's the end of CIVILisation as we know it.
electricity underpins everything we do in the modern world, without electricity there is NO modern world.
anyone who cannot fall back on the old ways is dead meat.

 

[user 6493]

All of us. Here on the site.

Where are we at?

Let's face it, the things we talk about most now, certainly aren't what was being talked about in 2016. Not even on other forums.

In 2016, people were TALKING about (not sure if anyone was doing it) building bug out vehicles with improvised armor, turning their homes into ****y trap filled death houses, digging WWI style trenches in their property, burying supply caches all over (I've actually done this, a couple) having BOL's, and backup locations. The list goes on, some of it seems more reasonable than others.

So, what do we think now, as 2018 comes to a close? What are you prepping for, has your focus changed, have you stopped prepping? Have you reached a point where you feel that you are as prepared as you can get?

What do you think will be the focus in 2019? Not asking for your fears, but that's fine too. Asking, what, if anything, are you specifically preparing for? Any changes in plan? Can you share those plans?

Prepping, as a movement, has been around for a while. There are "prepper camps" and things, established companies who cater to the prepping market, the movement seems to be around for the long term.

Do you think prepping is still growing?

Do you think you are still growing as a prepper?

What's most important? Skills, or stuff?

If skills, what skills are you building and how?

If stuff, what do plan on buying?

Thanks for any replies. It's hard to get the big picture, from the daily prep thread.

well lets see here now,,,,you can never prep enough there is always some aspects of prepping that can be improved upon so yeah we are still prepping,,,as for what for no one knows what the future is so I prep for survival ,that means food shelter and the gear/stuff I think I might need and you can never have enough,,,,and lets talk about skills and stuff/gear,,,,,you have to have the skill to use the gear you do have or be able to improvise if you don't have the gear you need ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[OldCoot]

I'd say I'm really not maturing as a prepper but consider myself a mature prepper. My food stores are measured by the tons plus I grow some of my own food, with a prepper mentality of becoming food self reliant when necessary. I keep hundreds of lbs of garden seed in storage and each year add more as most seed not frozen is only viable for a few years.

Personally I think stuff is equally important to knowledge. Take acquiring water after the grid goes down. Many skilled folks here probably can survive a crisis by getting enough clean water for drinking purposes. Granted it might be hot and stinky... but it will be safe. I prefer to use stuff to get lots of water... same amount as I have now. My stuff & skill in this area of prepping includes having the ability to pull a well pump and have access to all that cool, pure water underground. Once the old pump is pulled, I have the stuff to manually send down a well bucket to get water. After that, I have the stuff, a Grundfos flex well pump in storage as well as the extra solar panels and controllers, to pressurize my entire water system during daylight hours.

Same can be said for growing your own food. Many might have the skills to do so, but if you don't have the tools and seed already in storage, what good will that skill do you?

I like stuff.

 

[lonewolf]

stuff isn't much good unless the person has the knowledge and skill to know how to use it, otherwise it might as well stay in the box it came in

 

[Maverick]

We still doing things we done ten years ago, my plans haven't wavered that far off where I'm wanting to be, they remain the same as they were 30 years ago. About the only thing that has changed is the growth of the family and the size of the preps so the changing of priorities is dynamic. I'm heavily considering solar panels for the property while still maintaining connection to the grid, I would like both features being available to me. I don't spend much on electricity so that aspect isn't reason to remove myself from the grid completely.

 

[DrPrepper1]

When I first came here, I only had an idea of prepping. I didn't have anything. That includes jumper cables in my car. I am happy to say I now have plenty of supplies for my car, and a few for my home. Baby steps are better than no steps at all. My sister-in-law just left for a visit. She wanted to know what was up with all the water storage. That tells me I am headed in the right direction.

As far as what will happen, I don't know what or when. I think with the economy doing so well it has to come crashing down at some point. It could be electrical, this thing with Mexico could turnout for the worst. I have no idea..

My current goal is to save money for some medical expenses that I have. I want to be able to pay cash for the balance and have it not put a strain on me. After that I want to replenish that savings so that other unforeseen things won't be such a blow.

I would love to acquire skills. I don't have time for a class. I simply watch YouTube videos. It is all I have access to right now. I work 40 hours per week with 1.5 drive time so that makes it more like 47 hours of my work week and I babysit my grand kids 13 hours per day on Saturday and Sunday. Today is the exception to the rule and I have a day off. I feel like I am on vacation. I just say all that to say, I don't have a lot of free time to prep, but I still get on here and stay active because it is important to me. I also do somethings, but forget to mention them on this weeks preps checking because I am usually doing something else.

I learn things all the time on this site. For example, I found out what an Israeli bandage is and Celox gauze is because it was mentioned by other people on here. I go and try to learn about these things on my own as best as I can, and sometimes I just ask questions. For instance, I recently asked about coin pressed tissue. I asked what other people would use it for. I got plenty of great answers. I put it on my Christmas list (and it has already slipped that it will be one of my gifts).

I have done a lot o prepping around the house from getting better smoke detectors, replacing air filters, cleaning the air conditioner unit outside, killing destructive rats in the attic, extra food, extra water, to reinforced doors etc. I have a pretty good stock of hygiene supplies and cleaning supplies ( I admit this part comes naturally for me) other things I need help with, and I get it here.

 

[lonewolf]

I think I've been prepping most of my life but they didn't call it prepping back then, they called it common sense.
now common sense is anything but common.

 

[OldCoot]

stuff isn't much good unless the person has the knowledge and skill to know how to use it, otherwise it might as well stay in the box it came in

Agree and why I state they are equally important. Stuff (tools) makes life easier and more efficient. Always has... always will. Of course, one must use these tools and gain the knowledge in how to properly implement them. But I do have some stuff, say my hand powered grain mills, that I've never used. I understand how to use them and will need them in an extended crisis. In that case, I think it better to have the stuff (mills) and learn how to use them later than than to know how to use a grain mill but not have one when you need it for survival.

 

[jontte]

matured in a sense that I understand this is kinda hard work,learning new skills kinda hard work and there are no short cuts..

 

[user 5745]

I’m preparing for the breakdown of the current culture of maximum harm and for climatic changes. My prepping is partly an effort to avoid mere subsistence should a catastrophic event or major civil unrest occur and partly an effort to reduce or alleviate catastrophic disruption by building resilience, shortening supply chains, creating banks of skills and tools, increasing both self-reliance and mutual support, emotional maturity, intellectual capacity, libertarianism and the ethics of lovingkindness. I’ll never stop prepping, as there's always more to learn, more to share, more to build. My prepping-specific fear, other than, y'know, running out of matches or peanut butter, is that some preppers don't so much prep for catastrophe as long for it, hoping for an opportunity to prove themselves right and to be the heroes of their personal vision of apocalyptic badassery.

My focus in 2019 will be finding a property and growing some simple things in pots and tubs while I observe closely and start to plan improvements to the structures and land, permanent planting beds, etc. I also need to start a proper storeroom, rationalise my gear and work out prioritised lists of needs, wants and dreams.

Skills and stuff enable each other: the right combination allows for the most effective and efficient practical application of skills.

Skills to learn/improve (no particular order)

• Refresh my first aid skills: lots of practise with the manual, using friends as patients
• Fishing: get a basic rod and tackle, find some likely spots and go for it!
• Canning and fermenting: experiment and make notes to learn from mistakes
• Use of firearms and hunting: local range and shoot(s); on my own land, if I’ve got the space
• Car mechanics and advanced driving skills: lots of driving, decent maintenance manual, perhaps a college course
• Develop my handy skills like basic plumbing, carpentry and bricklaying: again, work from my manuals, practise on my own property, maybe take courses
• Increased assertiveness and situational awareness: get out into the world, meet people, practise

It won’t all happen next year, of course, but it’s good to plan.

Gear to acquire

• Pressure canner and canning supplies
  
• A decent wheelbarrow
  
• Big Berkey water filter
• Wine gear, ready for all those brambles in the autumn
  
• Fuelwood gear: good axe, maul and wedge, perhaps a chainsaw
• Not gear but... dog!

 

[Squirtgunsquirter]

Perfect.

 

[Brent S]

One thing I liked about bluejoys post in particular was the point about a lot of preppers almost seem to want society to collapse. Personally I really like the comfortable life I have now. Electricity is wonderful stuff, not to mention since I’m an electrician I wouldn’t have a business without it.... we live in a time where average people have it easier than any time in history. I really don’t want to see it all come crashing down. I also wonder about the ones that show no compassion for others, proudly boasting that stupid people should starve to death. Let’s all remember that while we can’t feed the masses, we should show fellow human beings some compassion.

 

[user 5745]

One thing I liked about bluejoys post in particular was the point about a lot of preppers almost seem to want society to collapse. Personally I really like the comfortable life I have now. Electricity is wonderful stuff, not to mention since I’m an electrician I wouldn’t have a business without it.... we live in a time where average people have it easier than any time in history. I really don’t want to see it all come crashing down. I also wonder about the ones that show no compassion for others, proudly boasting that stupid people should starve to death. Let’s all remember that while we can’t feed the masses, we should show fellow human beings some compassion.

Exactly!

 

[KateMTx]

I’m preparing for the breakdown of the current culture of maximum harm and for climatic changes. My prepping is partly an effort to avoid mere subsistence should a catastrophic event or major civil unrest occur and partly an effort to reduce or alleviate catastrophic disruption by building resilience, shortening supply chains, creating banks of skills and tools, increasing both self-reliance and mutual support, emotional maturity, intellectual capacity, libertarianism and the ethics of lovingkindness. I’ll never stop prepping, as there's always more to learn, more to share, more to build. My prepping-specific fear, other than, y'know, running out of matches or peanut butter, is that some preppers don't so much prep for catastrophe as long for it, hoping for an opportunity to prove themselves right and to be the heroes of their personal vision of apocalyptic badassery.

My focus in 2019 will be finding a property and growing some simple things in pots and tubs while I observe closely and start to plan improvements to the structures and land, permanent planting beds, etc. I also need to start a proper storeroom, rationalise my gear and work out prioritised lists of needs, wants and dreams.

Skills and stuff enable each other: the right combination allows for the most effective and efficient practical application of skills.

Skills to learn/improve (no particular order)

• Refresh my first aid skills: lots of practise with the manual, using friends as patients
• Fishing: get a basic rod and tackle, find some likely spots and go for it!
• Canning and fermenting: experiment and make notes to learn from mistakes
• Use of firearms and hunting: local range and shoot(s); on my own land, if I’ve got the space
• Car mechanics and advanced driving skills: lots of driving, decent maintenance manual, perhaps a college course
• Develop my handy skills like basic plumbing, carpentry and bricklaying: again, work from my manuals, practise on my own property, maybe take courses
• Increased assertiveness and situational awareness: get out into the world, meet people, practise

It won’t all happen next year, of course, but it’s good to plan.

Gear to acquire

• Pressure canner and canning supplies
  
• A decent wheelbarrow
  
• Big Berkey water filter
• Wine gear, ready for all those brambles in the autumn
  
• Fuelwood gear: good axe, maul and wedge, perhaps a chainsaw
• Not gear but... dog!

I think your prepping philosophy is one of the better (and better articulated) I've come across on this site.

 

[Squirtgunsquirter]

Marry me, Bluejoy.

At gunpoint if necessary.

Unless your a dude. Then, just... Good post.

 

[tmttactical]

Now here is where I create hate and havoc. First why should anybody help feed somebody else? Second, I do NOT wish for a collapse, I do expect it to happen. Too many folks still believe there can be a free lunch. Do I care about my fellow man ---YES --- but just those that are productive and self sufficient. Why should I care about the others? All the good feeling are just there to be self serving, too make you feel good at this moment. Feeding somebody that constantly failed to open their eyes to what is going on around them, it self defeating. Band with those that did prepare and the others are on their own. Please NOTE: I am not advocating attacking those that are unprepared (no Marauding is suggested), I am just advocating leaving them to their own devises.

Preppers are not the only folks that have access to the news. 90 percent of the world is informed to the events going on around them. Why then should any body help out those who not only did not prep but made fun or even tried to impede the preppers.

Now since we have folks that talk about the milk of human kindness, please justify why --- I--- not you, --- should be helping out those folks that failed to read the writing (IN VERY BIG PRINT) on the wall. Some folks think there is something special about being a human being. Wrong, human beings are just smarter animals. I do not look forward to the hardships after it SHTF but I can't put my head in the sand either. There will be many good people, some bad people but very few stupid people left after whatever disaster befalls the country. Why would anybody try and help out any of the few surviving stupid people? Minimum data cost of a smart phone is $30, more that a stupid flip phone. How many gallons of water would that buy each month? Basic cable TV is $50 to $60 per month. How much extra food would that buy? The point is, we get the same information, we all make financial choices. The prepper is trying to make choices between basic needs and pleasure (feel Good) items. I don't need cable TV. I don't need a smart phone data plan. I do need more food stored, I do need more water stored, I do need more batteries, solar equipment, food prep items and a million other items that will provide me a better chance for survival. I do not intend to waste a single item or a minute of my time caring for those that refused to plan for themselves. In fact I don't want them to survive and breed more stupid people for the future to have to contend with. Nature has methods to reduce over population and we should learn from nature. Once the SHTF event is subsiding, this nation will have to rebuild and there will not be any room for the stupid.

Now let the debate begin..

 

[OldCoot]

Gear to acquire

• Pressure canner and canning supplies
• Fuelwood gear: good axe, maul and wedge, perhaps a chainsaw
• Not gear but... dog!

I'll give some suggestions of gear I use. Might give you a start.

Pressure Canner: All American 21-1/2-quart pressure cooker and canner

Fuelwood Gear: Estwing 16" hatchet, Council Tool felling axe, Fiskars 36" splitting axe & wedge and Bahco 30" bow saw. Of course, living on a farmstead, I have several chainsaws but the above gear is great for a prepper needing tools to harvest wood using hand tools.

Dog: We have 10 rescues from the pound. I prefer mixed breeds as they are healthier. I'd suggest a good working dog such as a lab mix.

 

[Squirtgunsquirter]

@Urbanprep Is that the mature prepping viewpoint?

Seriously. Is it? What your describing is survival of the fittest.


At some point in human history, people's daily lives were exactly what we imagine the world to be after a collapse.

Then societies formed. I don't see how that happens without accepting some responsibility for the welfare of your fellow man.

Society today is what it is. Someone may have a smartphone, unpaid college debt, a precarious car loan, a bad marriage, all sorts of things. They may think everything will be fine, and ignore what you (and I, by the way) see as warning signs. That doesn't mean they won't survive.

I think you're making a few mistakes here, Urban.

I dont see anyone saying you should take care of anyone but yourself, post SHTF. They are saying they would.

And you don't give people enough credit. People really do rally together in bad times.

And if those bad times were never going to end? I think people would become a bunch of mammoth hunting badasses again pretty quick.

Take somene who has never worked a day in his life, never cooked a meal, never hunted, never learned a single survival skill.. drop him off naked in the woods, and I think he eats worms, and grass, and drinks puddle water and shivers at night and probably dies, but IF he lives he's probably more of a survivor than me with my preps.

Honestly, it takes all kinds. It takes hardcore cruelty (let the stupid ones die) and naive kindness (let's all be terrific). I don't think either group makes it without the other.

Ying and Yang, Baby!

 

[OldCoot]

First why should anybody help feed somebody else? Please NOTE: I am not advocating attacking those that are unprepared (no Marauding is suggested), I am just advocating leaving them to their own devises.

Lots of reasons and I'll leave off any discussion about goodness or religious beliefs/biblical mandates, so here are some. I do so because I refuse to become an animal & leave my neighbors to their own devices... which is a rather nice way of saying leaving them to starve while you prosper. But then you have to consider reality. So say you are prepared and your neighbors are starving. You plan on leaving them alone to starve quietly. Is that realistic? You think they will starve without trying to survive themselves? Nope. You now have a close in threat. What is to stop them from taking you and/or yours out when you are about? See? Now it has shifted from leaving them to their own devices to killing them preemptively to protect yourself. Long story short, the folks around you can become a threat or an ally. None of my neighbors know I'm a prepper and that I prep for them. But if we have a major, long term crisis then those that are still around once the shock settles in will be invited to work together as a community... where that we work together as opposed to fighting against. Understand Rambo is fictional and conflict will cause death and injury for all. My goal as a prepper is to do everything possible to limit conflict.

As well, I see my neighbors as a resource. Several of mine are farmers with lots of equipment and cattle herds. We have a dentist down the lane a bit plus two households include nurses. My closest neighbor family are true rednecks who spend all free time hunting. Other folks can be used as security and or farming help. I understand there most certainly will still be issues but I expect MUCH less than if I left them to their own devices.

 

[tmttactical]

@Squirtgunsquirter

Ah, the debate starts. First name one program of welfare for our fellow man that has helped move the country ahead. Welfare for our fellow man has allowed the weak to breed and will eventually cause the downfall of our nation, if not the entire world. When I say weak I am referring to the weak of mind (not retardation but thought process) and those that fail to be responsible for themselves.

Yes societies did form but it was not for the benefit of the weak, it was for the benefit of those in power and for commerce, to maintain their power. Financial growth and the desire to improve a person's position and status in life, those were the motivators in life and the development in society. People do rally together but not to protect the weak but to protect themselves. Castles were not built to protect the beggars, they were built to protect the land owners, merchants, business owners and any farmers, that could get to the fort before the gates were closed. The growth of American had nothing to do with protecting the underprivileged or the unprepared. It had everything to do with people risking all to advance in life. Immigrants paid their way over here (one way or another) and then succeeded or failed but the milk of human kindness was certainly not a major contributing factor.

Yes communities will bind together after the first phase of a major SHTF event but watch to see how fast the non-contributing or lazy persons are removed (welfare will not exist). During the first phase, I will certainly not be offering any helping hands. My supplies will be strictly for my families. As for joining any group in the future, that wold depend on weather it benefits my family. Selfish, you bet, but who has a better plan that does not rely on the other's playing nice.

Open for rebuttal!!!

 

[OldCoot]

Yes societies did form but it was not for the benefit of the weak, it was for the benefit of those in power and for commerce, to maintain their power.

You seem to associate all who fail to prep as weak. I don't see the connection. I simply see the reason is that our country has been so stable for so long, and isolated from world wars, that most folks just assume things will always be great and if not, someone will help. That is not weakness... it is shortsightedness. A shortsighted person can still stand up and be strong, given an opportunity... once they see the light.

And don't associate helping neighbors thru the crisis as welfare. All will have to work and contribute... nothing like what our government today allows.

 

[OldCoot]

During the first phase, I will certainly not be offering any helping hands. My supplies will be strictly for my families. As for joining any group in the future, that wold depend on weather it benefits my family. Selfish, you bet, but who has a better plan that does not rely on the other's playing nice.

Explain how you will deal with neighbors during the first phase. You think it will be simple and with no danger? You plan on living in a deep hole and never walking about? Never hunting or gardening? Never scouting about to see what dangers are approaching?

 

[Squirtgunsquirter]

Lol.

Welfare? I'm not a fan. I agree, welfare has allowed a culture to form around it, and that was a mistake.

But that's NOW stuff. It may contribute to the weak mindedness that you see in society, and anticipate will still be around post SHTF, but one good whack from a big rock and welfare will be a thing of the distant past. Heck, the economy might get rid of welfare and we will all wish welfare was still something the country was capable of providing.

I think some here would like to see better. Not some Utopia, that's horseshit.

It's more about not going it alone. No one's advocating just handing out all your prepping supplies to every starving nimrod that stumbles up the drive.

Do you hunt? Sitting in that stand, for hours, peeing in a bottle OH! Was that a deer?... Nope. Just the wind.

Happens a lot. I don't go kill a deer every time. Or even catch a fish every time. But if 20 people go hunting? Or fishing?

You don't give people food, you loan them a fishing pole. Or you come till their garden. Or give them a box of .22 rounds, in return for a portion of what they hunt with it.

Granted it takes some trust in your fellow man, that while you are tilling the garden the children don't come tackle you off the tractor and eat you alive then suck the marrow from your old ass bones.

You can't help everyone, but helping someone who can then help you seems like a good idea, and not everyone is looking to screw over the next guy for a can of condensed milk.

I agree with everything you said, about society, about your choices.

But I agree with oldcoot as well. Let's not be animals, or filthy savages. That's a mess. We can be better, smarter, pass on a better world to the next generation.

That's not weakness, IMO. We should be wise elders, not that crazy guy that will shoot you if if he thinks you might catch a fish in "his" river.

That's where that thinking leads. You know? "I'm so much better, I prepared for this, these weak minded fools don't deserve to live, they can't really appreciate that deer as much as I would, what use are they? Better if I just kill them, cleanse the gene pool"...

That's ugly thinking. I'm NOT saying you are there, but I think that's how bad things start.

Gotta be careful, keep the faith, or it's a dark road ahead.

 

[tmttactical]

@OldCoot

Ah now to turn the situation around. You wait until the dust settles and then inform your neighbors that you have enough food and supplies for all. Now you have just painted a target on your backside. Before, as you stated, your neighbors may not have known of your supplies (my plan of action) but you just invited them to come get yours. Your plan assumes you know your neighbors and that they will react like you predict. Now what happens when a neighbor or two decide they should be in of all these supplies. It is you who will not know who is ally and who is threat. My plan does not require me to divulge my preps or the amount of my preps. You are assuming that your neighbors are going to act rationally and not panic or decide now is the time to become the new Warlord. As for watching my neighbors starve, why would I be checking them out. I will be locked down, and will keep to myself. I will not be venturing all about. If the neighbors have more than me, supper, if they have less, not my problem. You believe that your neighbors are good folks but I am also willing to bet you know of some in your area that are not good folks. Those same bad folks are going to learn you are very well stocked. Now what is the plan? Preemptive strike on these bad folks or hope they will not come after you? Can't put the cat bag into the bag. In my plan we never let the cat out of the bag.

Again, I am not advocating violence on my neighbors but I am certainly not willing to place my family at risk, just based on my belief the neighbors are good folks. For every solid humanitarian story you can relate, I can relate a horror story. For every kind hearted soul out there, a nut case is waiting to be released. The problem is, during a major SHTF event, we will not know how people are going to react. My choice is to maintain my (our family) distance from these people (neighbors or not) and wait until the rule of law returns.

Now I really don't expect too many to side with this plan or at least not on a public forum . When planning for future events, I feel you should look at all the potential action plans, not just the feel good plans. I have to wonder what thoughts where going through the missionaries minds, as the cannibals were preparing to eat them.

 

[tmttactical]

Explain how you will deal with neighbors during the first phase. You think it will be simple and with no danger? You plan on living in a deep hole and never walking about? Never hunting or gardening? Never scouting about to see what dangers are approaching?

Okay, I am loving the replies, it does force me to put on my thinking cap and re-evaluate my thought process. This will be a 2-for (oldcoot and SGS) So Oldcoot first. if my neighbors did not prep, they will not be around to worry about by the time I have to venture forth. Now I did not say it would be simple or not dangerous. First of all any SHTF event by it's very nature is dangerous. Simple to limit danger, I will not venture out until the first Phase of die off is completed. If I am still in my urban environment, that is will only take about two weeks, no water (desert climate) and no stores to restock. Yes there will be looting and so forth but again, there is no advantage to letting my neighbors know I have food and water stored. If I am in my BOL , then I will not have any neighbors around to be visiting, Again desert climate, so nobody wondering out in the boondocks, not even to hunt. No farmers close by either. That location is not your typical farming land and all my food will be grown in below grade green house or appear to be natural local plants. Again no reason for folks to come visiting. As for exposure to raiding parties, I have also planned for that nasty event, but yes there would be an element of danger. The fewer people that know of the location the fewer I might have to contend with.

okay now for SGS, There are separate phases to a SHTF event. During phase one, the major die off is going to occur and the major violence will also occur. Those that survive on their own, will be the ones that will attempt the rebuild, As always there will be the ones that Mr. Murphy, for what ever reason has spared, who could not find their own butt, while sitting on the toilet.

Since when has it been a particular trait of humans to not abandon the weak. Does the trail of tears bring any humanitarian traits to mind? Humans have been abandoning the weak and old for centuries but they were still considered humans. As for after a SHTF event, the old and weak will have perished during the die off. Only the strong or Mr. Murhpy's litter will be left. So I fail to see the comparisons or concern for that slippery slope into the dark. As for sharing ammo, never going to happen, I will trade it of something the family needs. As stated several times, not advocation violence against a neighbor but will not support a neighbor either. Now mutual trade / barter or maybe a mutual Aid agreement, but that is not a feel good situation. It is strictly what is good or the family and the other party. If a group cannot defend them selves, then why would I want to jeopardize my family for them. If a group can and will defend, then they might be a potential ally. That is the whole point, there has to be a value (then and there -- not some future value) for the family or there is no reason to risk any interaction.

I do not worry about the goodness in myself, I just make sure I don't cause an evil. Minding my own business is not evil, Taking from others is an evil. If others want to interact with others and offer free support, that is their business. I will choose to avoid as much interaction with others as possible. I will not ask others for a handout and I will not offer any handouts. Any form of interaction will be limited to the last phase of the SHTF--- the rebuilding phase --- and that will be limited to commerce.

 

[OldCoot]

As for watching my neighbors starve, why would I be checking them out. I will be locked down, and will keep to myself. I will not be venturing all about.

You must have some mighty fine locks.

Depending on the situation, locking down might be the best action. Not everyone lives out in the country like I do. But I suggest you try it out to determine how feasible your plan really is. Can you really stay locked down for weeks or months without ever coming out? You have the water and sanitation for such a long period? Can you psychologically handle it? Can everyone in your family handle it? If not, your plan is in the crapper. Have you every tried doing as you plan to survive? What happens if someone gets sick? You going to be cooking or heating the place during this extended period. Starving neighbors will smell your activities. Just saying, staying stealthy in an urban environment for weeks could be rather hard.

As far as dealing with neighbors, almost all mine are good, hard working country folk. During a crisis, I would not notify all of my plans/resources at once but would start with my closest friends. I would get them on board first and then slowly add additional neighbors. I would start with my closest hunting neighbor and the farmers. They have the most resources and capabilities.

 

[OldCoot]

Simple to limit danger, I will not venture out until the first Phase of die off is completed. If I am still in my urban environment, that is will only take about two weeks, no water (desert climate) and no stores to restock.

Guess it depends on what you mean by first phase. Yes there will be a die off in two weeks if all utilities are gone but what do you do if some are still operational? Do y'all not have swimming pools all over in your desert urban environment. No ponds, lakes or golf course water hazards in your locale? Also, many bad folks will still be around for a long time, such as those that take over the large stores. Just saying, I think 2 weeks is a bit optimistic.