Are we maturing as prepper?

[Squirtgunsquirter]

Honestly, I had a totally different mindset when I lived in the city.

Urban life gave me a dim view of my fellow humans.

Out here? If the power went out, I guarantee it wouldn't be long before Junior walked over, to check on us and see what we had planned.

I have no weird dreams of rebuilding society, no deep longing to help my fellow man, but just me and a few other guys hunkered down in the basement eating pasta and canned veggies? No thanks.

Obviously, external events could change my thinking. The next Spanish Flu... Then, no. We stay put.

But, we survived the Spanish Flu. Humans are survivors. I find it hard to believe that 90% of humanity would just go batshit crazy and then croak, just because we had no electricity.

No electricity would just be the new normal. Can't work til the sun comes up. Sure wish they still made diesel fuel so the combine would run. I'll just hitch this cow to a bent fencepost instead, and drag it across the field before I call it a night and head back home to put another baby in the old lady.

That's humans. This crybaby snowflake social media epic butthurt stuff, that's a phase. Well grow out of it.

 

[tmttactical]

@OldCoot

Yes I do have some very fine locks. I also have plenty of firepower, if absolutely needed. I am a retired engineer, I can and will have some very nasty surprised for invaders during a SHTF event. I have already planned about the food/ cooking /sanitation issues. Battery powered roof vent fan to draw out any food cooking smells (ramen and many other soups do not broadcast smells). A SHTF event is completely different, as far as meals and aroma. Sanitation -- the old saying **** rolls down hill. My location is a high point, the sewer system will not back up into my place. Garbage will consist of food wrapper and will be burned in an indoor (BBQ Style) grill. Wet wipes for hygiene (not perfect but workable). The lock down / isolation is not a problem. I only leave the house 2 or 3 times a month as it is now. I did practice isolation, spent nine months testing out my theory (house sitting for son while he was deployed out to sea). The basic idea is not to have to defend, just stay out of sight until the rest depart, one way or the other. In an urban desert climate, the die off will start very quickly. People will not know about water sources, because they are city folks and expect to get it from the faucet. These city folks will blow though their water supply in just a few days and then it is just a matter of time. My biggest concern is going to be disease. Too many dead bodies laying around. That is going to be bad. Still working on the problem.

Now since I am a terrible judge of character, I have chosen to stay isolated. You (OldCoot) probably do know your neighbors and have spent years if not decades with them. I do not and will not know my neighbors, so my plan is isolation. During normal times you can afford to make a mistake about somebodies nature but during and after a SHTF, that is not going to be luxury most can afford to make.

Even with the slow dissemination on the amount of your stores /supplies, that information is going to get out. You are talking very long term rebuilding and there is going to be those that decide if you have enough for ten years (for all), then if they stole / took it, they would have enough for 50 years. I admire your idea and the good will towards others but I don't admire the risk you are taking. If you could accomplish your goal without divulging your stockpiles and your involvement, than I would say go for it. Old WW II poster, Loose lips sink ships. That will apply to your stock pile. I would love you for a neighbor, because I doubt you would need to turn rogue but I would not care as we would not be meeting each other. I would leave you alone and you would most likely not give me a thought. Out of sight, out of mind. Now if you could set up a stash at the church and have a way to replenish it , without your involvement being known, then you have a workable plan. Nothing ventured - noting gained is the wrong concept for SHTF. Noting ventured - is noting lost, for a SHTF event.

The floor is open for other opinions too. Loving the debate. We got good and smart folks here, jump in.

 

[OldCoot]

Even with the slow dissemination on the amount of your stores /supplies, that information is going to get out. You are talking very long term rebuilding and there is going to be those that decide if you have enough for ten years (for all), then if they stole / took it, they would have enough for 50 years.

My last comments. City folk just don't get it. Long term survival is not about stores lasting years. It is about stores lasting short term until you can be self sufficient. In my case, I plan on tons of stores being used up in months in a worst case scenario where the event occurs at the end of the growing season. Key to survival after a SHTF event is working together where you sustainably produce your own food & resources and cooperate for self defense. Just as mankind has done for eons. If you don't have the skills, resources and the PEOPLE to rebuild... what is the point?

After a crisis, which our species has endured many, you don't have to reinvent the wheel. We just need to do what we have always done. Humans are at the top of the food chain due to their intelligence and social skills. We work together better than any other species. Lone wolves don't rebound and rebuild... communities do.

 

[tmttactical]

Yes , I do get it, that is why I do want to eventually land in the great Arizona outback. Yes you do need growing material for the very long term but you (OLDCOOT) have to survive in the immediate short term.

Yes even in an urban environment, I will be able to survive for the long term. I have already made plans for that eventuality too. Granted it is tough to have a below grade greenhouse in a high rise building but there are ways to handle it. That is one reason I am so interested in all your growing tips and information. No matter where I am, I will need to be able to grow enough to survive on. Now getting rabbits will be harder but it is doable, Getting pigeons will be a bit easier (LOL). The chickens may have to be dropped from the diet, if I am stuck in Urbanville. I have two separate plans for survival -- Rural and Urban. They are as different as night and day. Now I know that many will say urban survival is next to impossible but that is not really the case. Difficult and requires different skill sets but still doable.

The trick to both types of survival is to make it through the first phase. The second phase is no piece of cake but will be less violent. The final phase is will require the ability to not just survive but to actually prosper. Now we may have different concepts of prosper but I will leave that for another debate. Yes you will need enough stores to make it through several growing seasons but again the amount is determined by the number of people to be fed. Old coot wants to make sure his community survives and flourishes, It want to make sure my family survives and flourishes. The size /scale is vastly different but the end goal is the same, survival.

A question was asked, what would be the point of survival, if the rest of the people did not survive? My response -- Could you be happy in Eden, even if it was just with your family? I don't need the rest of the people to survive, I will be content with my families survival. Again I do not wish ill will on others, I will just not be concerned about others.

 

[lonewolf]

first of all in an emergency my only DUTY is to see me and mine survive, its not to be a resource for others, once you tell others you have supplies you've painted a target on your back.
secondly my supplies are not to last years and years, they are to SUPPLEMENT when I cant get fresh, the season is such there are no plants growing and no animals about, or is just not safe to go outside- the hunker down period. its also to last me until I can get my first harvest in, probably a year maybe 18 months depending on what time of year the event occurred.

 

[user 5745]

I think your prepping philosophy is one of the better (and better articulated) I've come across on this site.

Cheers, Kate!

Marry me, Bluejoy.

At gunpoint if necessary.

Unless your a dude. Then, just... Good post.

What a place for a proposal, but I'm not the marrying type, SGS!

I'll give some suggestions of gear I use. Might give you a start.

Pressure Canner: All American 21-1/2-quart pressure cooker and canner

Fuelwood Gear: Estwing 16" hatchet, Council Tool felling axe, Fiskars 36" splitting axe & wedge and Bahco 30" bow saw. Of course, living on a farmstead, I have several chainsaws but the above gear is great for a prepper needing tools to harvest wood using hand tools.

Dog: We have 10 rescues from the pound. I prefer mixed breeds as they are healthier. I'd suggest a good working dog such as a lab mix.

Thanks for the tips - I've popped them on The List.

Bow saw, of course - I knew there was a particular type appropriate for this but couldn't remember the name (or even what it looked like)! Definitely want a working dog, something a bit scrappy and on the smaller side and almost certainly from a pound. While I'd love a kennel of wolfhounds and the like, it's a bit out of my budget

 

[OldCoot]

Bow saw, of course - I knew there was a particular type appropriate for this but couldn't remember the name (or even what it looked like)!

I keep 2 bow saws plus lots of extra blades for them. Just took a pic of them in the upper barn, along with some of the other hand tools for harvesting wood.

 

[jontte]

I'd like to have something similar as this,this one is a camping size,those we had in school ...in the stone age ... if you ask my sons,were bigger and something I'd like to have

 

[Maverick]

I'd like to have something similar as this,this one is a camping size,those we had in school ...in the stone age ... if you ask my sons,were bigger and something I'd like to have

You can always make a bucksaw, that's one of the first thing I learned how to make in the boy scouts.

 

[jontte]

you are prolly right Mav,must do some digging in the web...my problem is I want it as nice and pretty looking as I can have and do,
same goes when I do some fishing lures,if I'm not ok with the look/paint,strip it away and do it again..

 

[user 5745]

I keep 2 bow saws plus lots of extra blades for them. Just took a pic of them in the upper barn, along with some of the other hand tools for harvesting wood.

I have so many photos like that from my wwoofing tour a couple of years ago! It's always nice to see what other people have on hand and how they store it

 

[Maverick]

you are prolly right Mav,must do some digging in the web...my problem is I want it as nice and pretty looking as I can have and do,
same goes when I do some fishing lures,if I'm not ok with the look/paint,strip it away and do it again..

I understand that, in my youth I was stupid in thinking the hardware store will always carry them and I threw a lot away to the fireplace, wish I knew then they replace the wood with the metal

 

[tmttactical]

I do have to admit, as fisherman, I would starve very quickly. I tend to lean towards fish traps, can't use them now but I do know how to make and use them, if it ever gets to that point. I do like for things to look good as well work well. Lures would drive me crazy. Make them look really good and then drag them across some rocks, that would make me crazier than I already am.

 

[Duncan]

I don't know the difference between 'maturing' and 'changing'; it all depends on one's outlook. I do know, since I started thinking, dreaming, then planning, and then actually 'prepping', my approach and goals have changed significantly -- hopefully for the better. Two in particular stand out.

1. I can't -- and won't '' prep for everything. Until I was about 55, my plan was to be 'ready for everything', get firearms and sharp tools, buy a remote and inaccessible hideout, make sure the batteries for the Geiger counter were fresh, and on and on. When the Y2K fiasco (remember that?) came along, a group of friends and colleagues actually set up our own prep clearing house, primarily comprising engineers and medical people, with ideas toward designing survival items, health care, etc. But we never could decide how we were going to prep for all possible scenarios involved with Y2K; power outages (of course) disease, lack of food, insurrection, maybe even a nuclear exchange.

Finally, we sat down and did a 'business plan' (two of us were in an MBA program at the time), where we drew up a list of possible disaster scenarios, ranging from electricity out in a snowstorm or layoff from a job up to the Second Coming of Jesus. Then we applied a score for five parameters: * How likely will it happen in a month? * How likely will it happen in two years? *How serious will it be? * How long will it last? * What is the cost and time frame to ameliorate it? At that point it was pretty easy to quantify it, and we planned accordingly. The really low scores were things that could happen and likely would, but would be easy to plan for. Save three gallons of water per person, a coupla bags of charcoal for the dutch oven, and don't forget the can-opener, and you were set for the five days without electricity. Asteroid Strike: don't bother, spend your money on something better.

If we and/or our group can agree on at least trying this kind of prioritization, I think we'd be a lot better off, especially since most of us don't have enough money (or time) for both another thousand rounds of 5.56 and a small farm in southern Chile. Figuring out (and prioritizing) what concerns and goals my wife and I shared, we chose living near a small (pop 3000 town within a short drive of a big (pop 48,000) town in southern Idaho, and it seems to fit us fine.

You need a bigger survival group. It doesn't matter how many guns you have, you're going to need a place to get parts for your tractor, a medical clinic, preferably with a dentist and an optometrist, a school for your kids, someone to run the store, an administrator and managerial group to keep things running more or less smoothly, some people whose full-time job is to keep everyone safe (think cops), a large-animal vet, and folks who drop by with conversation and maybe some zucchini in the afternoon. That Swiss Family Robinson crap might've worked a couple hundred years ago, but we have wired ourselves to be a part of a larger infrastructure for our physical and emotional health. That's why I live within a short distance of a small town and after four months have already met (and visited with) six or seven families within a mile of me. I believe that people skills, including friendliness,willingness to help, willingness to ask for help, and the ability of working in a group -- whether to raise a barn or vote in a new school -- are at least as important as knowing how to field-strip your AR or set a trot line.

 

[lonewolf]

all that might work in Idaho, but here in the rural UK things will be more basic.
just finding people you can trust will be a massive undertaking, never mind finding medical staff who will be the first to go whenever there is a pandemic as they are on the frontline.
tractors will be off limits as we will be managing smaller plots of land not huge prairies, this is hilly Devon not Montana.
fuel and spare parts wont be available, in any case most of the growing will be done with hand tools and raised beds.
subsistence food production, wont be able to call it "farming", will be the order of the day, and I doubt there will be any surplus for the first few years.