Communications Plan

[bkt]

Haertig is right. My old Kenwood TH-F6a puts out about 4 watts and can transmit farther and hear better than my 8 watt Baofeng BF-F8HP. And that's with a decent antenna on the 'feng. Power matters a lot less than a good radio and good antenna.

Some may say it's still cheap Chinese junk, but my Wouxun KG-UV9PX really does put out 8 watts, it's a true dual-receive superhet HT that is incredibly sensitive and it's my go-to HT these days. At $185, it's not exactly cheap relative to a 'feng, but it's still affordable (to me).

A word on HT antennas...I really like the Signal Stuff SignalStick. All my HTs and car mag-mounts have BNC adapters so I can use the same antenna on the car and on the HT; super-easy to swap around. You can also get the SignalStick with the correctly-gendered SMA adapter for your radio.

 

[Haertig]

I really like the Signal Stuff SignalStick.

I agree with this recommendation 100%. I have a couple of these SignalSticks and they are good.

The Baofeng has the opposite gender SMA antenna connector than my Yaesu, so you need a different antenna for each radio - or an adapter. Make sure you get the correct antenna for your particular radio.

Below are some pics of my portable J-Pole antenna stand. I am pretty sure that I have posted these here before, in some other thread. I just drilled a hole into a three-way PVC Tee to hold the antenna (I drilled the hole small, then hand reamed it to a larger diameter so I had a good friction fit on the antenna so it didn't just fall through the hole!) The PVC tripod stand is not glued together, so the parts just come apart easily for transport. The antenna itself breaks down into two parts for portability.

The roll-up antenna that you hang from a tree is even more portable. And you're going to be able to get the tree hanging antenna up higher as well. But you have to have a tree to hang it from, which isn't always available.

 

[bkt]

Cool stand. Is that a KB9VBR-made jpole? I have one of those in my attic.

 

[GeorgiaPeachie]

Thank you so much Haertig for your information and guidance! Nice antenna setup! I really do want a tree antenna. We are surrounded by trees. There is a tall tree on a high point on our property by our guesthouse that I could use.

Is this a good Yaesu handheld in your opinion? Will it communicate with the other Baofengs at close range?

YAESU​

Original FT-65 FT-65R 144/440 Dual-Band Rugged & Compact Handheld Transceiver, 5W - 3 Year Warranty​

 

[Haertig]

I like the Yaesu FT-60R (similar model number to the one you linked to, but a totally different radio). All radios will be able to communicate with each other (well, given the same frequency, same mode, etc.) Brand name doesn't matter.

The FT-60R is an older model. But IMHO, much better than their newer models. The newer models are more similar to Baofengs in construction and internals. Maybe a small step up. Not a large step.

Besides the quality of the receiver and transmitter designs, the old FT-60R is better in many other ways. Metal chassis rather than plastic (that's not a terribly big deal unless you like to drop your radios - the Baofeng chassis and case are perfectly fine IMHO). The big thing for me is ergonomics. There are knobs up top for controlling volume and squelch. That is so much better than up and down arrows on a digital keypad. You also use one of those knobs to scroll through menu selections. Again, so much easier than up and down arrow buttons. I think all radios probably have a knob for on/off and volume, just not for squelch or for menu selection. Newer radios, even high quality ones, don't seem to have these handy knobs, they all use up/down buttons or worse yet, touch screens for menu selection. Touch screens look all nice and futuristic, but they are a nightmare to use on a small handheld device (they require lighting and looking at the screen, good eyesight, small and well controlled fingers, etc.) With knobs, you can adjust some things without having to look at a screen, just by feel (squelch being a biggie). Also, the FT-60 speaker gets a lot louder than a Baofeng, and sounds clearer.

However, if you're not going to be using the radio a lot, and it's just tucked away for emergencies, the all-digital new fangled things will work fine. Tougher to use, yes, but cheaper to buy. You can buy a Yaesu FT-65 for $110. A FT-60R will cost you $160. Compare these to a Baofeng for $25 and it gets easier to live with the Baofeng's deficiencies (other than performance - it's hard to consider something a bargain if it doesn't even work). It's well worth the price difference for an FT-60R to me, but you have to be the judge. You may find these radios cheaper at HRO ("Ham Radio Outlet") than at Amazon. HRO is a well-respected ham radio place. Their website can be a chore to search through though.

https://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-007323
https://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-015573

It was just a few months ago, maybe a year, that FT-65's were going for $89 or less I think. Dang - inflation sucks!

Note that I have been to a couple of group things where there were several people with radios in close distance. You could easily pick out the Baofeng transmissions from those from other radios. They stuck out as being much lower quality. This is anecdotal, based on my own limited personal experience, and might not be the case for every Baofeng. But you can't expect a Ferrari when you paid for a Kia. The differences may not matter for your particular application, but there are clear differences. But the bottom line is that Baofeng's can get the job done (provided they work, which most of them do to a reasonable extent - but not all).

 

[Haertig]

Is that a KB9VBR-made jpole?

Yes it is!

 

[Haertig]

https://theprepared.com/blog/review-yaesu-ft-60r-vs-baofeng-bf-f8hp-for-new-ham-radio-operators/

 

[GeorgiaPeachie]

I like the Yaesu FT-60R (similar model number to the one you linked to, but a totally different radio). All radios will be able to communicate with each other (well, given the same frequency, same mode, etc.) Brand name doesn't matter.

The FT-60R is an older model. But IMHO, much better than their newer models. The newer models are more similar to Baofengs in construction and internals. Maybe a small step up. Not a large step.

Besides the quality of the receiver and transmitter designs, the old FT-60R is better in many other ways. Metal chassis rather than plastic (that's not a terribly big deal unless you like to drop your radios - the Baofeng chassis and case are perfectly fine IMHO). The big thing for me is ergonomics. There are knobs up top for controlling volume and squelch. That is so much better than up and down arrows on a digital keypad. You also use one of those knobs to scroll through menu selections. Again, so much easier than up and down arrow buttons. I think all radios probably have a knob for on/off and volume, just not for squelch or for menu selection. Newer radios, even high quality ones, don't seem to have these handy knobs, they all use up/down buttons or worse yet, touch screens for menu selection. Touch screens look all nice and futuristic, but they are a nightmare to use on a small handheld device (they require lighting and looking at the screen, good eyesight, small and well controlled fingers, etc.) With knobs, you can adjust some things without having to look at a screen, just by feel (squelch being a biggie). Also, the FT-60 speaker gets a lot louder than a Baofeng, and sounds clearer.

However, if you're not going to be using the radio a lot, and it's just tucked away for emergencies, the all-digital new fangled things will work fine. Tougher to use, yes, but cheaper to buy. You can buy a Yaesu FT-65 for $110. A FT-60R will cost you $160. Compare these to a Baofeng for $25 and it gets easier to live with the Baofeng's deficiencies (other than performance - it's hard to consider something a bargain if it doesn't even work). It's well worth the price difference for an FT-60R to me, but you have to be the judge. You may find these radios cheaper at HRO ("Ham Radio Outlet") than at Amazon. HRO is a well-respected ham radio place. Their website can be a chore to search through though.

https://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-007323
https://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-015573

It was just a few months ago, maybe a year, that FT-65's were going for $89 or less I think. Dang - inflation sucks!

Note that I have been to a couple of group things where there were several people with radios in close distance. You could easily pick out the Baofeng transmissions from those from other radios. They stuck out as being much lower quality. This is anecdotal, based on my own limited personal experience, and might not be the case for every Baofeng. But you can't expect a Ferrari when you paid for a Kia. The differences may not matter for your particular application, but there are clear differences. But the bottom line is that Baofeng's can get the job done (provided they work, which most of them do to a reasonable extent - but not all).

You’ve been so helpful! I really am grateful for all the shared information. I will use the link and pick up a couple of those type radios. I’ve already got 11 of the others, counting the newest one I got some months ago. These are for use should things go to chaos. I do want a couple that with a high antenna can reach a few miles.

 

[Bacpacker]

I fully second the FT 60 recommendation. I have 3 of them, never had an issue with any of them. Oldest one is nearly 20 and has a lot of miles on it.
I also have a FT-4XR lighter weight, same output power, Nice radio, but I doubt it would hold to as rough treatment as the FT 60

 

[Haertig]

Don't throw out the Baofengs. The difference between a high quality radio that can receive/transmit over several miles and an inexpensive Baofeng when you only need family members to talk between each other 1000 yards - is of no consequence. Does it matter that the Baofeng reception/transmission might not be the clearest in the world (as long as you can at least understand it?)

There are use cases for both type of radio. I'd get a Bag-of-Baofengs for close range family communications (realizing that some radios in that bag may have to be culled). And I'd get a higher end radio with a really good antenna if I were hoping to contact unknows at farther distances.

 

[Haertig]

Also, learn a bit about how radios work. Some tips that might make a cheap radio (or a good radio for that matter) perform better:

• Get a better antenna. Rubber Duckies pretty much suck on any radio. But if your needs are meager and it works for you, they're fine.
• Make sure all users known that their antennas should be in the same orientation (vertical polarization is the norm for handhelds). Don't go holding the thing sideways like a gangbanger holds their gun if everybody else is holding theirs vertically.
• Hold the radio around six to twelve inches from your face at a 45 degree angle. You want to talk across the microphone, not flat-on directly into it.
• When you are ready to transmit, depress the button, wait a second, do your talking, wait a second, then release the button. So you don't clip your transmissions and make it harder for others to understand you.
• Use an earphone to better hear/understand soft or low quality transmissions.
• Move to the top of a hill or the roof of a building to get much better range.
• Move around a few feet if you're having a bad experience - that can make all the difference. If you're near a reflective building surface, move away from it. If you're not near a reflective building surface, move towards it. It's not always clear what's going to improve things, so try everything.
• Set your radio on a metal surface - your car, your BBQ grill (not when it's running!) to give it more of a ground plane for the antenna to improve reception. You want to set it so it's antenna is perpendicular to the metal surface, not parallel.
• Improve battery life by deciding ahead of time that you will communicate between the top of the hour and ten minutes after the top of the hour. Then turn off the radio between those times.
• Improve battery life by only using the transmit power that is needed. If you can communicate fine at the 1 watt power setting, don't go blasting out using 5 watts. I think most any radio you can buy has different power settings that you can choose from.

There's usually a way to improve the situation rather than just living with it!

 

[LadyLocust]

So again last night, I called and asked my folks if they had walkie talkies. "Yes!" Good step one - "errr, Oh, the batteries are dead. Your dad's looking for more batteries." He found enough good ones to make one work. What's the range - "Got no idea." Can you get it to this channel? "It only has XX numbers." I think my folks are in for a gift of rechargeable radios which miraculously happen to be preset. (They do have a generator.) They understand things are "iffy" at best but don't think about what to do about it.

 

[GeorgiaPeachie]

Hams and walkie talkies can be so frustrating! The generator is a real life saver!!

 

[bkt]

So again last night, I called and asked my folks if they had walkie talkies. "Yes!" Good step one - "errr, Oh, the batteries are dead. Your dad's looking for more batteries." He found enough good ones to make one work. What's the range - "Got no idea." Can you get it to this channel? "It only has XX numbers." I think my folks are in for a gift of rechargeable radios which miraculously happen to be preset. (They do have a generator.) They understand things are "iffy" at best but don't think about what to do about it.

OK, the "looking for more batteries" part told me a lot: they're not preppers. That also tells me they don't know radios from a box of pasta.

Maybe a little education is in order. There's no point in having radios if you don't know whether they'll work, or if you don't know how to use them. It's not rocket science; it's really pretty easy to understand.

 

[LadyLocust]

OK, the "looking for more batteries" part told me a lot: they're not preppers. That also tells me they don't know radios from a box of pasta.

Maybe a little education is in order. There's no point in having radios if you don't know whether they'll work, or if you don't know how to use them. It's not rocket science; it's really pretty easy to understand.

Yep! I agree. It’s frustrating. That’s why I was thinking of getting them a “real” set. They know the very basics but are rather proud to be anti technology. They do keep plenty of grub but no they are not preppers. I asked Hubby when it happened that we became the parents . They do at least listen when I explain these things to them and how it might help them. Hubby’s folks are even older and libs so I do well to get them to keep more than a week’s worth of food on hand