Copper as a medium of exchange in case of a melt down

[WilliamGates]

Gold is too expensive to use in place of barter, but copper could be used very easily. This book points out why we should have plenty on hand to use instead of trading in fractions of a gold coin. It made sense to me.

 

[Maverick]

In a post shtf I don't see any value of precious metal in the first couple of years and certainly not so much with copper, it would require a state to set value and agreed upon by surrounding communities or other states with the backing of precious metal to set value otherwise it's just another of many fiat currency were each community sets its own value. Silver is easier to invest in if gold is out of reach.

Water hand pumps, pvc piping of various O.D. in 10' lengths, couplings, 90s, glue and primer would make better bartering items. Piping water in from what ever source is going to be needed. Medical supplies is going to be a much needed items, I certainly won't trade any of my stock for any currency, my stock is not questionable unlike any currency in an unpredictable future Better to invest in items that's going to be needed!

 

[DrHenley]

Silver is a fantastic bargain right now. Copper is a useful metal, but the sheer volume of copper required to have any significant value makes it impractical to lug around. Think about it this way.

The melt value of a copper penny is currently 1.8 cents
The melt value of a silver quarter is currently $2.99.
The melt value of a $5 gold piece is currently $293.11

If you need to carry at least $100 worth of metal, you will need to carry:

5,556 copper pennies
34 silver quarters
1 $5 gold piece

BUT, if you need to carry at least $1,000 worth of metal, you will need to carry

55,556 copper pennies
335 silver quarters
4 gold pieces.

AND, if you need to carry at least $10,000 worth of metal, you will need to carry

555,556 copper pennies
3,345 silver quarters
35 $5 gold pieces

So, you see, it all depends on how much value you need to carry. For even small amounts, such as $10, you would need 556 pennies. Silver is practical for a few hundreds of dollars. But when you get in the the thousands of dollars, gold is the only practical way to carry enough metal.

 

[WilliamGates]

Thanks, that made sense to me. There is a place for copper coins if the local community assigns a face value to it and backs it with some form of precious metal. Is that what you're saying?

 

[Maverick]

Thanks, that made sense to me. There is a place for copper coins if the local community assigns a face value to it and backs it with some form of precious metal. Is that what you're saying?

yes given that precious metal still has a form of value, otherwise it's nothing more then fiat that would give far worse stability problems of course this is all supposition
If I am going to invest, I am going to invest in what is known in other words, I know what I need to survive and that is in my prep store not currency!

Edit: Store (supplies)

 

[WilliamGates]

Silver is a fantastic bargain right now. Copper is a useful metal, but the sheer volume of copper required to have any significant value makes it impractical to lug around. Think about it this way.

The melt value of a copper penny is currently 1.8 cents
The melt value of a silver quarter is currently $2.99.
The melt value of a $5 gold piece is currently $293.11

If you need to carry at least $100 worth of metal, you will need to carry:

5,556 copper pennies
34 silver quarters
1 $5 gold piece

BUT, if you need to carry at least $1,000 worth of metal, you will need to carry

55,556 copper pennies
335 silver quarters
4 gold pieces.

AND, if you need to carry at least $10,000 worth of metal, you will need to carry

555,556 copper pennies
3,345 silver quarters
35 $5 gold pieces

So, you see, it all depends on how much value you need to carry. For even small amounts, such as $10, you would need 556 pennies. Silver is practical for a few hundreds of dollars. But when you get in the the thousands of dollars, gold is the only practical way to carry enough metal.

Hey Doc Henley, That's a pretty complete breakdown. Let's suppose we use gold for major transactions, like buying and selling land. Silver will be for somewhat expensive deals like buying and selling vehicles or farm equipment, and copper will be reserved for purchasing goods at the market. Does that make any kind of sense?

 

[DrHenley]

Yes, except silver isn't valuable enough to use for vehicles.

Silver bars or large silver coins (ATBs for example *) might be a little more practical for large purchases however. With the silver bars you will have a huge problem with counterfeiting. Not so much with the ATBs.

* ATB - 5 ounce pure silver "America The Beautiful" quarters, known to coin collectors as "hockey pucks". Basically a round 5 ounce silver bar issued by the U.S. Mint, with a 25 cent face value, making it "legal tender." Currently going for slightly over $100 each on Ebay at the moment.

 

[WilliamGates]

Yes, except silver isn't valuable enough to use for vehicles.

Silver bars or large silver coins (ATBs for example *) might be a little more practical for large purchases however. With the silver bars you will have a huge problem with counterfeiting. Not so much with the ATBs.

* ATB - 5 ounce pure silver "America The Beautiful" quarters, known to coin collectors as "hockey pucks". Basically a round 5 ounce silver bar issued by the U.S. Mint, with a 25 cent face value, making it "legal tender." Currently going for slightly over $100 each on Ebay at the moment.

Thanks Doc, those may really come in hand. No pun intended; however, in the event of a total melt down of society metal prices will adjust to that new reality. An ounce of silver will likely represent a lot more than it does now and a pound of copper will be worth plenty more than what it's worth today for the same reason. These metals hold their value. That what makes them a good means of exchange versus barter. You should read the book "Good as Gold".

 

[Gazrok]

Problem is, to have any kind of metal-based economy, you need stability. That's the problem. For at least the first year or so after such a drastic collapse, that stability won't exist.

 

[WilliamGates]

Yeah would imagine you're right about that. So, looking beyond those early days. When the dust has settled. Wouldn't a currency system backed by precious metal be a good way to restart trade between neighboring communities?

 

[Gazrok]

Will likely be the default method. After all, it still fits the criteria of what to base a currency on, and just from a historical aspect, it will be the go to method.

But, you have to weather that initial period of chaos, and PROTECT such a stockpile during that timeframe....so you can't just hoard it, you have to HIDE it, and SURVIVE the chaos period...then, you have to be able to KEEP it when things have stabilized (vs. having it taken from you).

I always say, if you can afford to include it as an ADDITIONAL prep, then by all means, invest in some metals, but ONLY if you have the dough to spare.

I myself have quite a bit of copper pennies and silver dimes, nickels, and quarters.

 

[WilliamGates]

I think all preppers should have a stash of coins for trading purposes. This way when the time arrives we will have a means of trading with each other. Psychologically people will probably not have any trust in paper currency. Dollar bills will be meaningless pieces of paper. A coins value, on the other hand, will be based on its metal content.

 

[Gazrok]

Dollar bills ARE meaningless paper. They are backed only by FAITH.

 

[DrHenley]

The U.S. has been on fiat money so long, people have been conditioned to think of Federal Reserve Notes as money. The vast majority of people really have no clue what real money is, and how fragile the value of a FRN is.