Currency/money after TSHTF

[Brent S]

I don’t think we need to discount the dollar off as worthless just yet. In a true shtf I kind of agree with gold and silver being better. I’m really hoping this event doesn’t bring everything down that bad. I do see things getting bad, just not that bad.

 

[DrHenley]

This won't bring it down, not yet anyhow. But the national debt might eventually cause inflation to spiral out of control.

The only thing that might save the dollar is that every other major monetary system will have the same problem...unless Russia manages to keep the virus at bay. Rubles anyone???

 

[BillMasen]

No chocolate and No sex toys anymore???????????

don't wanna prep with you anymore, all work and noooooooooooooo fun!!

But what about the Chocolate sex toys??

 

[Brent S]

But what about the Chocolate sex toys??

You’re a bad person, and probably very messy!

 

[chihuahuasniper]

I don’t think we need to discount the dollar off as worthless just yet. In a true shtf I kind of agree with gold and silver being better. I’m really hoping this event doesn’t bring everything down that bad. I do see things getting bad, just not that bad.

The dollar has the U.S. military behind it and will always have value, even in SHTF. Gold and silver can't be broken up easily, and honestly, I'd rather have bullets than gold.

 

[Brent S]

The dollar has the U.S. military behind it and will always have value, even in SHTF. Gold and silver can't be broken up easily, and honestly, I'd rather have bullets than gold.

I think having some of as many different thing as you can is the best plan. I don’t have a crystal ball to know what’s going to be the safest asset so by diversifying I’m trying to cover all bets.

 

[DrHenley]

The dollar has the U.S. military behind it and will always have value, even in SHTF. Gold and silver can't be broken up easily, and honestly, I'd rather have bullets than gold.

Since when has the dollar kept its value in the last 100 years? 100 years ago a movie ticket cost 7 cents.

200 years ago an ounce of gold would buy you a really nice suit.
100 years ago an ounce of gold would buy you a really nice suit.
Today an ounce of gold will buy you a frickin Armani suit:
https://shop.nordstrom.com/s/emporio-armani-trim-fit-solid-wool-suit/5504200/full?origin=category-personalizedsort&breadcrumb=Home/Men/Clothing/Suits & Separates&color=navy

 

[chihuahuasniper]

Since when has the dollar kept its value in the last 100 years? 100 years ago a movie ticket cost 7 cents.

200 years ago an ounce of gold would buy you a really nice suit.
100 years ago an ounce of gold would buy you a really nice suit.
Today an ounce of gold will buy you a frickin Armani suit:
https://shop.nordstrom.com/s/emporio-armani-trim-fit-solid-wool-suit/5504200/full?origin=category-personalizedsort&breadcrumb=Home/Men/Clothing/Suits & Separates&color=navy

Today an ounce of gold wouldn't get you an Armani suit. You'd have to convert it into dollars first.

 

[DrHenley]

If you converted an ounce of gold into dollars 100 years ago, and then HELD those dollars until TODAY, you could buy a sweatshirt from Walmart with that money.

BUT, if you held the gold instead, and then converted into dollars TODAY, you could buy an Amani suit.

Comprende???

Gold holds it value, dollars don't hold their value.

 

[chihuahuasniper]

If you converted an ounce of gold into dollars 100 years ago, and then HELD those dollars until TODAY, you could buy a sweatshirt from Walmart with that money.

BUT, if you held the gold instead, and then converted into dollars TODAY, you could buy an Amani suit.

Comprende???

Gold holds it value, dollars don't hold their value.

And have you molded it into numerous tradeable coins that you could actually use in a SHTF scenario when 100% of the people in the U.S. use dollars and are going to be looking for food/consumables? How are people going to know if it's real gold? How will you know what an ounce of gold will be worth in SHTF?

That said, I do own a few silver eagles.

 

[tmttactical]

First we have to understand the actual event. --- SHTF --- does not mean the end of fiat currency, so gold and silver will have a value commensurate with the severity of the disaster. TEOTWAWKI means that all countries and their governments have completely failed. A WROL situation and every man for himself (you too Ladies) . Then gold and silver will have little to no value. The value of gold or silver requires a demand to make it valuable and without a civilization / society, there will be very little demand. Other than it's scarcity, what would create a demand for these precious metals? Lead, tin, copper, iron, steel, etc., these are all foundry metals and will will have far greater demand during a WROL recovery phase. I don't see too many gold nails, wagon wheel rims or bullets cast from gold or silver.

 

[DrHenley]

I don't see too many gold nails, wagon wheel rims or bullets cast from gold or silver.

That is precisely why gold is used for money instead of commodities. Nails get nailed, wagon wheels wear out, bullets get fired, but gold is forever. Every ounce of gold ever mined in the history of the world is still gold and worth whatever the value of gold is. It doesn't corrode, it doesn't get used up it's still there and it's still gold.

If gold gets used in something like a circuit board, you can incinerate the circuit board and you'll have a little lump of gold that you can sell for whatever the price of gold is.

 

[tmttactical]

That is precisely why gold is used for money instead of commodities. Nails get nailed, wagon wheels wear out, bullets get fired, but gold is forever. Every ounce of gold ever mined in the history of the world is still gold and worth whatever the value of gold is. It doesn't corrode, it doesn't get used up it's still there and it's still gold.

And several lifetimes AFTER the WROL, once the rebuilding phase starts, gold will have a value again, maybe? Once we start to crawl back out of our caves, then why would anybody want or need gold? What would you use it for? Gold or any precious metal has no value until their is a society that needs a common currency. Currently gold is used in some electronics and for jewelry but those will not be in high demand sitting around the fire pit. For gold to have a value, then there must be a civilization to set it's value. As stated , SHTF gold has value (there is still some civilization left). TEOTWAWKI-- no civilization left, no need for gold, no value.

 

[Kevin L]

How are people going to know if it's real gold?

I think that how much it will be worth depends on the value people assign to it.

As to authenticating a gold or silver coin, I would bring up a 2,300 year old answer to this question which is--interestingly enough--the source of the word "eureka" that people shout when they have an inspiration or a flash of genius.

Archimedes of Syracuse was friends with the king of a city-state. Archimedes had a reputation as a mathematical genius (he was, by the way), so the king approached him with an interesting problem.

The king gave a specific quantity of pure gold to an artesian to fashion into a crown. Of course the king weighed it when he got it back (he wasn't stupid), and it weighed the same, but what if the artesian stole a quantity of gold--say 15%--and replaced it with an equal mass of much cheaper copper? The king could be cheated without ever being aware of it, and this was a concern.

While Archemedes was pondering this, he went to the public baths to relax, and noticed the water level rising in the pool when he settled himself into it.

This caused him to run naked through the streets toward the palace, shouting "Eureka!" over and over again, which means "I have found it!" in classical Greek.

So, if you know the density of pure silver and pure gold, you can measure the volume of a coin in a graduated cylinder and figure out how much water is displaced. You can then weigh the coin on a precise digital scale, and figure out the density. If it matches what you know the density of gold to be, then you aren't being swindled.

This test takes very little time, and is not destructive to the coin.

If I remember correctly, the artesian was executed . . . but I could be wrong.

 

[DrHenley]

A genuine gold or silver coin will "ring true" but a coin that has a core made of something else will not.

 

[Kevin L]

And several lifetimes AFTER the WROL, once the rebuilding phase starts, gold will have a value again, maybe? Once we start to crawl back out of our caves, then why would anybody want or need gold? What would you use it for? Gold or any precious metal has no value until their is a society that needs a common currency. Currently gold is used in some electronics and for jewelry but those will not be in high demand sitting around the fire pit. For gold to have a value, then there must be a civilization to set it's value. As stated , SHTF gold has value (there is still some civilization left). TEOTWAWKI-- no civilization left, no need for gold, no value.

I see (and respect) your points, because--as I said earlier--if I was stranded on a remote island and given a choice between a stash of gold coins vs. a supply of food, I'll opt for the food. I would also opt for a rifle, for clothing, and so on.

Yet gold and silver haved saved the lives of many people in SHTF conditions. I consider WWII to be the mother of all SHTF situations. It certainly is considered to be the most destructive war that's ever happened.*

I accept your arguments, but I have to insist that gold and silver have saved the lives of survivors, and I--being a practical person--like to go by experience over theory.

Fighter pilots have a tradition of wearing extremely expensive Rolex and Panieri watches . . . the gaudier the better . . . often decorated with diamonds and extensive gold scrollwork.

This is not out of ego (in theory, but all the fighter pilots I know are quite egotistical), but this is in case they get shot down over enemy terrotory, and the watch can be used for bribery, or traded for materiel that the pilot needs to survive. They also will use the watch to buy safe passage back to friendly territory.
----------------------------------------
* The first wave of black death (bubonic plague) that swept Europe and killed 30% of all humans started in Turkey at Constantinople (modern day Istanbul) when the army of Genghis Khan laid seige to the city, and used catapults to hurl the dead bodies of plague victims over the city walls. If we accept the massed dead of Europe as colkateral damage from this war, then this war has WWII beat by a good country mile.

 

[tmttactical]

Kevin, you are absolutely correct in a SHTF ( limited temporary condition) then precious metals will always have value. In extreme cases of SHTF, it will have extreme values. Since civilizations formed, precious metal have retained value and even gained value. The world has never experienced a TEOTWAWKI event. We now have the means to make The End Of The World As We Know It happen. A man made event would not end all human life but would push us back into the medieval times. Without the population density and no advanced technology or manufacturing, our existence will require a barter / scavenger system and precious metals will have little or no value. SHTF and TEOTWAWKI are two very different events. The difference is equal to tripping on a crack in the sidewalk or falling off a 1,000 foot cliff.

 

[DrHenley]

I would say that we are in a TEOTWAWKI event right now. The world as we knew it three months ago has changed dramatically. And will change even more before this is over. That world is gone, probably never to return.

The excrement has certainly hit the fan.

But we are not in a WROL situation yet.

 

[Brent S]

There is no doubt this event is worthy of being called shtf. Lots are saying this will be as bad or worse as the Great Depression. I don’t know how bad it will get but it certainly won’t be the same down the road. I don’t worry so much about such things though. As an individual the best you can do is control what you can each day with the issues you face as they come up. Keep prepping, and make good decisions about the important things we all face, like having clean water to drink, food to eat and a place to lay your head at night.

 

[chihuahuasniper]

I think that how much it will be worth depends on the value people assign to it.

As to authenticating a gold or silver coin, I would bring up a 2,300 year old answer to this question which is--interestingly enough--the source of the word "eureka" that people shout when they have an inspiration or a flash of genius.

Archimedes of Syracuse was friends with the king of a city-state. Archimedes had a reputation as a mathematical genius (he was, by the way), so the king approached him with an interesting problem.

The king gave a specific quantity of pure gold to an artesian to fashion into a crown. Of course the king weighed it when he got it back (he wasn't stupid), and it weighed the same, but what if the artesian stole a quantity of gold--say 15%--and replaced it with an equal mass of much cheaper copper? The king could be cheated without ever being aware of it, and this was a concern.

While Archemedes was pondering this, he went to the public baths to relax, and noticed the water level rising in the pool when he settled himself into it.

This caused him to run naked through the streets toward the palace, shouting "Eureka!" over and over again, which means "I have found it!" in classical Greek.

So, if you know the density of pure silver and pure gold, you can measure the volume of a coin in a graduated cylinder and figure out how much water is displaced. You can then weigh the coin on a precise digital scale, and figure out the density. If it matches what you know the density of gold to be, then you aren't being swindled.

This test takes very little time, and is not destructive to the coin.

If I remember correctly, the artesian was executed . . . but I could be wrong.

Interesting read for sure! But the problem still remains -- are you going to be walking around in SHTF with a cylinder and digital scale trying to convince stressed out/desperate people to trade with you for something they don't immediately need? Although I'd rather do that than try to use Bitcoin in SHTF, it doesn't seem practical. In a short-term disaster, one to five years, firearms/bullets, food, batteries, socks, and medicine are king.

I.E., a pair of wool socks will keep your toes from freezing off. No amount of gold in the world can convince me to lose 10 toes to frostbite in a SHTF scenario.

 

[Jayson]

If you converted an ounce of gold into dollars 100 years ago, and then HELD those dollars until TODAY, you could buy a sweatshirt from Walmart with that money.

BUT, if you held the gold instead, and then converted into dollars TODAY, you could buy an Amani suit.

Comprende???

Gold holds it value, dollars don't hold their value.

And we can ‘thank’ President Roosevelt for taking the US off the gold standard. Now the dollar bill is only backed up by the promises of the government.

 

[chihuahuasniper]

There is no doubt this event is worthy of being called shtf. Lots are saying this will be as bad or worse as the Great Depression. I don’t know how bad it will get but it certainly won’t be the same down the road. I don’t worry so much about such things though. As an individual the best you can do is control what you can each day with the issues you face as they come up. Keep prepping, and make good decisions about the important things we all face, like having clean water to drink, food to eat and a place to lay your head at night.

It could very well get worse than the Great Depression. Very few people have three to six months' income or longer saved for something like this. I bet many people on here do, though

 

[Proud Prepper]

And have you molded it into numerous tradeable coins that you could actually use in a SHTF scenario when 100% of the people in the U.S. use dollars and are going to be looking for food/consumables? How are people going to know if it's real gold? How will you know what an ounce of gold will be worth in SHTF?

That said, I do own a few silver eagles.

I have a test kit with the acids to test all grades of gold and silver, scale, loupe. They are not that expensive. Everyone that stores gold and silver should have a test kit. Both parties will need to agree upon the current value of gold and silver to be tradable.

 

[DrHenley]

I.E., a pair of wool socks will keep your toes from freezing off. No amount of gold in the world can convince me to lose 10 toes to frostbite in a SHTF scenario.

You were the one touting dollars as the safe bet, and I'm trying to explain to you that it's not, giving you cold hard facts. You can either accept reality or not, your choice.

 

[DrHenley]

In case you have forgotten, I was responding to this:

The dollar has the U.S. military behind it and will always have value, even in SHTF.

 

[Jayson]

The dollar is a valueless piece of paper propped up by the privately owned central bank, the Federal Reserve. President Andrew Jackson warned about the folly of such a financial scam 200 hundred years ago.

 

[Jayson]

It could very well get worse than the Great Depression. Very few people have three to six months' income or longer saved for something like this. I bet many people on here do, though

We don’t. We put just over $1,000 into a small safe at home. That won’t last very long if the SHTF.

 

[DrHenley]

UK Gold Coins
The Sovereign series has the same weight whether historical or modern.
5£ AGW: 1.1775oz
Sovereign AGW: 0.2355 oz
Half Sovereign AGW: 0.1176 oz
Quarter Sovereign AGW 0.059 oz
Other UK gold bullion coins have the gold content marked on the coin.
Example 100£ Gold Britannia AGW: 1.0035oz

US Gold Coins
The Eagle series has the same gold content whether historical or modern commemorative.
Double Eagle AGW: 0.9675oz
Eagle AGW: 0.4840oz
Half Eagle: AGW: 0.2420oz

Other than rare numismatic coins, other US Gold coins have even divisions of 1 troy oz marked on the coin.

South Africa Krugerrand AGW: 1.0003oz

Netherlands Ducat AGW: 0.1106oz

Chinese Panda Coins all have gold content marked in English.

Austria Gold Philharmonic coins have gold content marked in German, but intelligible to English speakers.

Canadian Gold Maple Leaf coins have gold content marked in English

Australia
Sovereigns same as UK
Other gold coins have gold content marked in English

 

[Kevin L]

Interesting read for sure! But the problem still remains -- are you going to be walking around in SHTF with a cylinder and digital scale trying to convince stressed out/desperate people to trade with you for something they don't immediately need? Although I'd rather do that than try to use Bitcoin in SHTF, it doesn't seem practical. In a short-term disaster, one to five years, firearms/bullets, food, batteries, socks, and medicine are king.

I.E., a pair of wool socks will keep your toes from freezing off. No amount of gold in the world can convince me to lose 10 toes to frostbite in a SHTF scenario.

Agree 100%.

All I'm pointing out is the ways that gold and silver have helped survivors in past SHTF conditions.

I set aside several silver coins (Canadian Maple Leafs, which are my favorive gold and silver coins) about eighteen months ago.

If I sold them now, I would turn a substantial profit over what I paid for them.

 

[chihuahuasniper]

Agree 100%.

All I'm pointing out is the ways that gold and silver have helped survivors in past SHTF conditions.

I set aside several silver coins (Canadian Maple Leafs, which are my favorive gold and silver coins) about eighteen months ago.

If I sold them now, I would turn a substantial profit over what I paid for them.

Hold them