Does anyone else see an economic crash coming?

[campandtravel]

Without electricity

True. But in his scenario there was electricity.

 

[campandtravel]

In my eyes cryptos are less than an weekend in Vegas

And this is why cryptos may not be useful in a crisis, or at all. Not because of any of the things you said; those were not real points and they showed you don't understand crypto. But *because* most people don't understand crypto.

Not that I think you and most people won't accept digital money. The Fed is going to create digital money and most people will accept that because it will all be handled for them. They won't have power over their own spending, but most people will give up power over their own lives if that power comes with the task of learning something new.

So that means that the only practical way for cryptos to be useful to buy/sell is either if big banks start using it (seems unlikely) or if you only want to exchange with other nerds.

But all of this is unrelated to the article that was referenced. That article wasn't talking about things that would be useful as money in a crisit. It was talking about ways to store value to reclaim after the crisis passes. Two very different use cases.

 

[Schattentarn]

So now I know you're approaching this argument dishonestly. Meaning I probably shouldn't bother to go on but I like to give people second chances. The list you're kvetching about didn't say Bitcoin would be useful as money for small purchases in a crisis. It said it was a "tangible asset."

But anyway it would be a boatload easier to buy gas with bitcoin in your scenario (where there is a generator on-site) than to use, say "museum-quality art". Unless this gas station also has a resident art appraiser? And did you want to trade your "Night vision equipment" for gas? I mean, maybe, but again the article wasn't talking about money for small transactions but tangible assets.

Definitely if you were going to buy a large piece of property, the art could be useful. Bitcoin even more so.

Want to understand how? Maybe to stop assuming you already know would be a good prelude?


Perhaps I will. What's the magic word?

Yeah, you are gong to have lot of grief from me going back and forth, trying to sit on the fence as you do. Better put me on your ignore list.

 

[campandtravel]

trying to sit on the fence as you do

I've never sat on the fence on any issue. I can't imagine what you're referring to. Also: don't care!

Better put me on your ignore list.

I didn't know we could do that until you said so. Doing that now, thank you!

 

[user 7000]

I've never sat on the fence on any issue. I can't imagine what you're referring to. Also: don't care!

I didn't know we could do that until you said so. Doing that now, thank you!

Yeah, you just made mine.

 

[DrHenley]

You're right that if you can't sync nodes you have a potential serious problem. But you also made the assumption that you need the internet to sync nodes. If you separate these and start thinking about solutions, even the very obvious ones, I'd be happy to help brainstorm that with you.

The Internet (capital "I") is so called because it is an interconnected networks of networks. You will have to have some sort of replacement internet (small "i") that connect all the nodes in real time. May not be "The Internet" (capital "I") but it will be an internet of some sort (via shortwave radio, etc.), and every node will have to use the same protocols that will have to be decided by someone. Without the Internet, getting all of that set up and working would be a monumental if not impossible task. If it were set up NOW, it might be feasible, but after a SHTF event, I just can't see it happening.
The communications would have to be encrypted, and my understanding is (maybe some of the ham operators on the site can chime in) that you cannot do that legally over the public airwaves.

 

[campandtravel]

You will have to have some sort of replacement internet (small "i") that connect all the nodes in real time.

Am I supposed to pretend to take this seriously? At least you didn't say it's a series of tubes.

every node will have to use the same protocols that will have to be decided by someone

This is cringe-worthy now. Seriously you're like a teenager who changed a headlight once and is lecturing a barbershop full of people on which engine is the best for one of their cars. Lucky for you, you don't seem to know enough to be as embarrassed as you should be.

The communications would have to be encrypted

Yeah, um, it already is. Sheesh.

and my understanding is (maybe some of the ham operators on the site can chime in) that you cannot do that legally over the public airwaves.

Oh my goodness! Then I guess we have to unplug every wifi router in the country before someone finds out!

I just can't see it happening.

This is the only thing you said that is true. *You* "just can't see it...." It would take someone who has a basic understanding of networking to understand it. So, every single tech support person, every IT person, everyone who has set up a router extension to work in his barn, etc. We're talking about stuff you'd learn in week 1 at an entry level job out of college.

But *all* of this is just you and that other guy shifting the goal posts. Because the article was not saying that crypto would be a currency. I'm not saying that. The article said it's a "tangible asset" to hold while you're waiting for whatever SHTF-scenario to pass. I don't even know if I agree with the article, but I was correct to point out the flaw in the reasoning that that other person used against it. So we're waaaay off on a tangent, and you don't have the basic competence to discuss the topic you've shifted to.

I don't know if your handle is honorific or if you're really a doctor. But let's say you're a doctor, and I'm not (I'm not.) It would be fine for me to disagree with you about something if I have specific experience about it. For example: I took the recommended heart pills and it made things worse but then I took milk thistle or something and I feel better so thank you Doctor but I'll go my own way.

But it would be absolutely ignorant of me to tell a surgeon who assures me that it is possible to open up a patient and fix his aorta that he is wrong because "I just can't see it happening." I would sound like a complete moron.

Hint.

 

[DrHenley]

I thought you wanted an intelligent discussion about it.
My bad.

 

[campandtravel]

I thought you wanted an intelligent discussion about it.

I'd like that. But you'd have to stop making assertions you can't back up. Ask questions, don't throw down nonsense. Here's an example:

"May not be "The Internet" (capital "I") but it will be an internet of some sort (via shortwave radio, etc.), and every node will have to use the same protocols that will have to be decided by someone."

That was nonsense. If you'd wanted an intelligent conversation you could have said:

"I'm not an expert but wouldn't we need some sort of network? What would we use to create that network? Would every node have to use the same protocols? Would those have to be decided by someone? These questions make me skeptical that it would work but maybe you have answers?"

That would have been intelligent. Those I would have answered.

 

[DrHenley]

BTW I was an IT director for 18 years and yes I earned a PhD when you were 5 years old. I also ran a full bitcoin node around ten years ago. Sorry, I must have been talking above your pay grade.

 

[DrHenley]

The words internetwork and internet is simply a contraction of the phrase interconnected network. However, when written with a capital "I", the Internet refers to the worldwide set of interconnected networks. Hence, the Internet is an internet, but the reverse does not apply. The Internet is sometimes called the connected internet.

IBM's TCP/IP Tutorial and Technical Overview

 

[campandtravel]

BTW I was an IT director for 18 years and yes I earned a PhD when you were 5 years old. I also ran a full bitcoin node around ten years ago. Sorry, I must have been talking above your pay grade.

Pay grade? Maybe. The people who get paid the most usually sit in conference rooms and use buzzwords but don't actually know anything about technology. *If* you really were an IT Director that would explain both your ignorance of basic networking and your certainty that you do know what you're talking about.

You "ran" a Bitcoin node? I don't believe you. Maybe someone else ran it and that person worked for you so you feel like taking the credit? Maybe it was located in your garage. But if you can't figure out how to run an ad-hoc network in a grid-down situation then I don't believe you can run any IT infrastructure.

Not that it makes you a bad person not to know these things. Lots of people don't know lots of things. I don't know the difference between a horse and a carrot seed. I also don't talk about those subject except to ask questions.

I do not believe you are approaching this conversation honestly. I gave you every opportunity to turn this around but my impression is that your ego was hurt and you can't humble yourself and ask questions. (So that does suggest you might be telling the truth about being an IT Director.) If you wanted to know how a grid-down network would work, I'd answer and we'd all have useful information for a crisis (because that network would work for anything, not just crypto.)

But you'd rather feel like a Director. Got it. It's only a shame that "Ignore" doesn't work for mods.

 

[bill harrell]

Come and see me, I'll teach you most of the stuff you need to know in less than 3 minutes. You can talk more crap than you can back up. I can travel if you like. I won't usually make house calls, butt ,I can make exceptions .I'm flexible.

 

[campandtravel]

Come and see me, I'll teach you most of the stuff you need to know in less than 3 minutes. You can talk more crap than you can back up. I can travel if you like. I won't usually make house calls, butt ,I can make exceptions .I'm flexible.

 

[Schattentarn]

You know, arguing with a moron is vexing but since I found the ignore button, reading the one sided comments are no long vexing but funny.

 

[Mountain Dragon]

I always see, read and hear the same by this crypto-nerds, in (my) short words: Nothing is so stable, worthtrusty, safe like cryptos. And every time you ask what's going with your digital money if there's an blackout and no access to the internet i hear or read always "this never will happen".

Sounds like the mantra of an snowball-system-dealer.

Yes, i'm not into digital money. I'm proably very old fashioned, but only what I can hold in MY OWN hands and I can move physically by myself is really mine. I don't wanna trust an stranger person in an SHTF-Situation.

 

[DrHenley]

I was into Bitcoin in its infancy. I planned to be a bitcoin miner and went so far as to set up a full node and mining software. At that time it was still possible to mine Bitcoins using consumer hardware. But the more I read about it, the more I started getting leery of crypto. There was talk of Bitcoin miners being treated as financial institutions which was the last straw.
Sure, if I'd just bought some Bitcoins, I theoretically could have made a killing. I say theoretically because that machine died, and since I didn't have any Bitcoins in the wallet, I just let the machine rest in peace and moved on. Years later, when it all got decided and Bitcoin miners weren't treated as financial institutions, I decided to restore the node and wallet on a new machine from backup and give it another go. I was unsuccessful. I could never get it to recognize my wallet. I would have lost any Bitcoins in that wallet. Lesson learnt, me and crypto parted ways forever.

 

[poltiregist]

A financial attack on the United States financial system by Russia , now seems imminent . Putin has promised to do so in retaliation of Biden's sanctions . Cyber attacks and signal jamming likely to occur on banks and pipe lines . So for Putin has not made bluffs . The howling of the unprepared will soon be heard . --- Of course to save face Biden will be instructed to retaliate and ratchet up the disintegrating mess - with Puttin following up with ratcheting up his cyber and satellite jamming attacks .

 

[campandtravel]

Cyber attacks and signal jamming likely to occur on banks

So you're saying my checks might take forever to clear, customer service phone lines might not be open, and the bank will be closed when I try to go there?

How is this different from yesterday?

 

[campandtravel]

if there's an blackout and no access to the internet i hear or read always "this never will happen".

I don't have any particular fetish for bitcoin and if I could choose a whale-size Bitcoin fund or a scrooge mcduck style vault I'd put on my swim trunks and jump right in.

But I have often heard people - smart people, not just dumb people on forums - talk about bitcoin in the event of internet catastrophe. It's very well tailored for that sort of situation.

That was my only point above. I wasn't saying that everyone is smart enough to run a node and not forget his password. I wasn't saying that the government won't regulate it to the point that it scares away the timid. I wasn't even saying that it's useful as money. The article that person criticized said that Bitcoin is a good place to park some value so that you can recover it when the fan is free of ****. Unless the catastrophe is a permanent grid-down, that seems as good a bet as most, given how the blockchain works. Maybe not as good as gold, but what is?

 

[Digout]

Maybe not as good as gold, but what is?

Exactly, so why bother with an inferior cryptocurrency?

 

[campandtravel]

Exactly, so why bother with an inferior cryptocurrency?

I guess there are two ways to reply to that. The first is that you should probably ask someone who recommends crypto, which is not me.

The second is that your logic is flawed. You said "Exactly, so why bother with an inferior cryptocurrency?" after I said that it might not be "good as gold." Right? By your logic it would not make sense to invest in *anything* that is less good than gold then. That includes silver and everything else on the list. So unless that's really what you're suggesting, your reply above was dishonest.

I don't really care which it was. This board has an Ignore feature.

 

[klon solo]

All these cryptocurrencies are nothing more than highly speculative fantasy values without any real countervalue.

- No stability, their "value" changes by every second.
- No countervalue, OK, other currencies dosn't have something stable anymore since the gold standard falled, but there's absolutly nothing around except some data on the internet.
- Nothing physical, all is only some theoretical bits and bytes.
- Works only by internet.
- Can't pay any bills with it.

In my eyes cryptos are less than an weekend in Vegas: speculative, non-realistic, phantasy with an big chance to lose your money - just without a free drink and watching the ****s of the showgirls.

To be fair, the market moves very quickly, so it's hard to say much about the crypto and non-fungible world that is set in stone.

For example, linking land ownership to a token bijectively to a set of perpetual leases is an actual thing. I know from experience, since I just purchased land in Exuma Bahamas (well, connected my wallet in preps for the what they call a "whitelist mint"). So, there is something physical...I will have to build a home on it with real money, but the land is mine - forever.

Not trying to be argumentative, but just trying to explain that crypto created for non-fungibles is a direct example of how these digital currencies are connected to hard assets. I have dozens of examples.

 

[klon solo]

Without electricity, no computer, no internet.

No internet, no cryptocurrency.

Unless it's stored on a hard wallet. Offline. In certain instances, depending on the project/contract, you can continue to earn passive income while being offline.

Just trying to be informative...

 

[smack555]

This is exactly what I prepare for. I'm reading a book just started it yesterday about the same subject and it brought a thought to my head. Instead of collecting and investing in gold and silver, instead invest in goods. The reason behind this is when shtf and money means nothing, silver and gold in my personal opinion will also mean nothing. If your looking to barter or trade with someone, think about this, what can I really do with gold? Give me something that helps me live a few more months.

 

[Dave V]

I've never tried, but I don't know if they'd take our gold coins either? They may be more inclined to take cans of Campbell's soup?! (I think I would!)

Yep, that's what I'd want (FOOD!) if I was running a gas station after SHTF

 

[Jayson]

I don't really care which it was. This board has an Ignore feature.

Well, listen to Mr. High and Mighty.

 

[Digout]

Yep, that's what I'd want (FOOD!) if I was running a gas station after SHTF

If I had a Gas Station after the SHTF I'd be running - - - - - - Fast

 

[user 7704]

Ran across this. I was checking out some silver and gold you tube posts. Also, Dave Ramsey, a local guy who went national, says gold and silver are bad investments. Don't see it.

 

[Proud Prepper]

Ran across this. I was checking out some silver and gold you tube posts. Also, Dave Ramsey, a local guy who went national, says gold and silver are bad investments. Don't see it.

Ii bought gold and silver recently, not as an investment, it's to keep from losing value nd my wealth from being deleted or becoming extremely expensive toilet paper.