I am almost to the point that the next time some idiot claims electric cars will save the planet I'm gonna shove a battery up someone's arse....I am not sure if any of these people even understand what electric is and how electric cars work...I openly go to task to let those idiots know they are idiots....
Electric Cars
- Thread starter drt4lfe
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Electric cars are more carbon positive to make than convernsional cars, and they still need hours to charge rather than a couple of minutes to refuel, they still are only good for about 250 miles per charge YES 500 on the flat in summer during the day. But you try driving one in the Rockies mid winter at night in a blizzard at minus 5 and see how far you get. Electric cars are DECADES away from being universal. However in the US and Canada I do think you chaps could g much further in improving your (1) Environment (2) your bank balances by not driving huge great five , six and eight litre vehicles because in many cases you must admit they are not needed. A modern 2.5 litre Gas or Turbo Diesel engined vehicle can give you nearly 200 BHP and 30 plus to the gallon. Thats more than enough horses for 90% of your average US needs
electric cars do not save the environment.....they are not cost effective in any way.....the make emissions just like a gas or diesel vehicle....and you have to burn a lot of fossil fuels to charge them....and rip a bunch of natural resources out of the ground just to build the battery bank, which burns more fossil fuels to mine the extra stuff for those batteries.....hybrids are just as bad....
I disagree with you all. Yes, they still have many drawbacks currently, but the model t didn't start out very efficient or practical either. We need to get away from fossil fuels for a variety of reasons, and if we don't start developing other options then we're as stupid and doomed as the dinausaurs were.
so how do we build and charge them without fossil fuels ? we can't, so how will they save anything ? a lot of Model T's are still owned and driven today.....the basic design has worked for a lot of years.....how many years and how much fossil fuel will be burnt to get electric cars to the same level as gas/diesel cars ? we will still be using fossil fuels to make the gas/diesel cars run plus using even more fossil fuels to make electric cars which still need the same fossil fuel to operate....so how do electric cars solve the issue ? they are not nearly as efficient, the infrastructure alone to use them by the masses will cost an untold amount of money and burn an untold amount of fossil fuels to build that infrastructure....and then still use fossil fuels to use the electric cars....and you can't say solar or wind generated power will fill the gap because neither of those have proven up to the task of supplying anything close to what fossil fuels do....and electric cars still require huge amounts of fossil fuel to build...and maintain.....electric cars will and may have a place in larger cities, but how many people will be able to own and maintain them as easily as a gas/diesel car ? not many will....electric cars are not on the near horizon to solve anything....not in most of our lifetimes anyway....not sure how the dinosaurs fit into the electric car scenario in our current world....
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the electric car,,hmmmm,,,well until they become more than a grocery getter ,you will never see me with one--------------------------------------
I can go close to 500 miles in my old dodge truck stop for 15 minutes or so filler up fill me up and do it all over again
you just can not do that with an electric car,they have a limited range and take overnight to recharge ,,besides I can't haul anything big home in one of them,,,they are a novelty at least for the present time
I can go close to 500 miles in my old dodge truck stop for 15 minutes or so filler up fill me up and do it all over again
you just can not do that with an electric car,they have a limited range and take overnight to recharge ,,besides I can't haul anything big home in one of them,,,they are a novelty at least for the present time
I disagree with everything you stated.
Another 50 years of development will prolly see them become useful with 5 minute full recharges, 600 mile range and not affected by heat or cold. But as for now as a PREPPER I would use a Solar powered Golf Cart for local getting about a homestead or ranch, local patrolling, feeding livestock etc because they would save on using precious stored fuel and they are almost silent for patrolling and hunting. There are some golf buggies now with their tonnaeu cover roofs covered in flexible marine grade PV panels that help keep the batteries topped up. Such small utility vehicles would prolly be OK for preppers in Southern US and Southern Europe
Lectric vehicles will in time be just another useful tool in our armouries of kit, just like other innovations have crept into common use such as LED lighting, Solar panels, Digital Comms, electronic Ignition, NV goggles, etc Electric vehicles will never replace Prime mover haulers like Trucks and Locomotives or even long distance transport but their use will gradually grow and be normalised. I can see local transport like School buses, Local Postal Deliveries, Home delivered shopping vehicles going over to Electric. We already accept as normal Golf Buggies to get people around golf courses, science facilities, campuses, beaches, netparks, camp sites and even some airports. Will I see an electric vehicle battling its way through snow cross country in outback Alaska? I doubt it.
Lectric vehicles will in time be just another useful tool in our armouries of kit, just like other innovations have crept into common use such as LED lighting, Solar panels, Digital Comms, electronic Ignition, NV goggles, etc Electric vehicles will never replace Prime mover haulers like Trucks and Locomotives or even long distance transport but their use will gradually grow and be normalised. I can see local transport like School buses, Local Postal Deliveries, Home delivered shopping vehicles going over to Electric. We already accept as normal Golf Buggies to get people around golf courses, science facilities, campuses, beaches, netparks, camp sites and even some airports. Will I see an electric vehicle battling its way through snow cross country in outback Alaska? I doubt it.
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My point was not to say electric is better than a gasoline engine. It was to say that if we don't do the research and develope it until it is would be silly. Fossil fuels pollute, that's a fact. They are also going to run out eventually, that's a fact as well. If we don't start looking for and developing alternatives now and wait until we can't breathe the air outside or just flat run out of gasoline, then we're pretty stupid. The reference to dinausaurs was that if a species can't adapt then they go extinct. We know that fossil fuel is going to run out, so not trying to find alternatives would be the equivalent of causing our own extinction, figuratively. The reference to the model t was that it really was a primitive piece of crap compared to a modern Nissan or any other car that is comfortable, quiet, and long lasting. It was developed over time with trial and error, and over the years saw improvements with each little change. The electric car is the same way. Right now it is still in its early stages, but with time has the potential to be way better than an internal combustion engine. It's simple, has way fewer parts, is more powerful and it's even way faster than a gas engine. Trains even use electric engines and have for years now. They have the ability to start under a heavy load and don't need a transmission. I think we need to think about more than the here and now and always work towards making tomorrow better.
Fact, electric vehicles pollute.....There are several thousand scientists who have several thousand theories about what happened to the dinosaurs and we still don't know for a certainty what happened so that has nothing to do with electric vehicles....I never compared a Model T to new modern vehicles, I would not compare the two, but Model T's are still being driven today, such an ancient vehicle compared to modern vehicles and they still work....electric cars are not simple....lol.....you should take a good look at the guts of a Prius Hybrid....simple ? lol.....lol......simple is not the word....and yes a hybrid has two systems and the electric side is not simple at all....electric is efficient, I won't doubt that at all....and you never addressed all the fossil fuels that are needed to build them and operate them ? they pollute.....Batteries emit pollution, larger the battery, the more toxic gas...look it up....and yes they can be charged quickly, never said otherwise, but how much fossil fuel is burned to make that quick charge ? off the subject, but something most never think about.....Have you ever looked at the big container ships that run 24/7/365 all across our Oceans ? Youtube has a lot of videos of the engines in those ships, they burn the lowest grade sludge diesel fuel known, they burn thousands of gallons an hour emitting worse pollution than probably a million cars in that trip from east to west and you never hear a word about them or making them emit less pollution....and what would you do about the millions of diesel Tractor/trailers than run our roads every second of everyday, or all the huge diesel burning engines in trains that burn that huge amount of diesel fuel to feed the electric motors in that train.....regardless of technology improving in electric vehicles they still create a lot of fossil fuel pollution....electric vehicles is not the solution that will have any effect in our lifetime...I for one and my tax dollars have been scammed too many times paying for the next big thing to save the world and save us from ourselves....look at how much taxpayers have already given to these companies and we will never seen that money again....nor any benefit from it....
Yes, I agree with your premiss Brent. However electric battery vehicles are not the solution for mainstreem transportation, but it will be used for local short range vehicles. We already have a few extremely efficient power sources already researched and developed that do just what you asked. There not being use in public. The reason is cheaply mass produced products that create a sustained profit and fossil fuels have created a huge industry and lots of profits. There is so much invested in this industry that there is no way they will let more efficiet technology replace it, untill it is milked dry. Then the oil industry will be right there to provide the next industry standard fuel source which they control and its much better than electric batteries.
At this time, other power sourced engines would be to exspensive for public use and there for have to low overall profits. You need something that everyone can afford and you can make good profits on it. Just look at the way all products made for the masses are today, there made as cheaply as possable. Sure you can buy better made, like commerciel/profetional or military/industrial equipment, made to hold up better with continuous use, but the vast majority is made cheaply to maximize profit.
What Im saying Brent, is its already been done and will be done, but not in our lifetime. Dont buy an electric or hybrid vehicle because of this premiss, buy it if its a good value for your needs. Which is not likely.
At this time, other power sourced engines would be to exspensive for public use and there for have to low overall profits. You need something that everyone can afford and you can make good profits on it. Just look at the way all products made for the masses are today, there made as cheaply as possable. Sure you can buy better made, like commerciel/profetional or military/industrial equipment, made to hold up better with continuous use, but the vast majority is made cheaply to maximize profit.
What Im saying Brent, is its already been done and will be done, but not in our lifetime. Dont buy an electric or hybrid vehicle because of this premiss, buy it if its a good value for your needs. Which is not likely.
I reckon if I lived in the city or suburbs I would opt for an electric car, for me here, it's not practical. Location dictates needs.
Battery pack replacement will cost between $7000 to $18,000 so save your gas money for battery replacement, on top of that, one would have to pay for the service, much about the vehicle isn't going to be serviced at home. Also, we had two electric car fires here, the rain was the primary cause (standing water in road way) This is a major issue in my part of the woods plus the vehicle would have to be docked during the winter. In some states they are looking for ways to tax electric cars given they don't pay gas taxes.
Electric cars use the same amount of petroleum to produce the vehicle as a gas powered vehicle, the only green about the car is usage but that also depends on where the electricity comes from. The way I view it, I'm not knocking electric cars and if it works for whoever buys one I say good, more power to ya. I believe the future is electric cars as primary transportation just not yet.
Though I do think horse and buggy is cheaper and far more greener than electric cars.. just saying
Battery pack replacement will cost between $7000 to $18,000 so save your gas money for battery replacement, on top of that, one would have to pay for the service, much about the vehicle isn't going to be serviced at home. Also, we had two electric car fires here, the rain was the primary cause (standing water in road way) This is a major issue in my part of the woods plus the vehicle would have to be docked during the winter. In some states they are looking for ways to tax electric cars given they don't pay gas taxes.
Electric cars use the same amount of petroleum to produce the vehicle as a gas powered vehicle, the only green about the car is usage but that also depends on where the electricity comes from. The way I view it, I'm not knocking electric cars and if it works for whoever buys one I say good, more power to ya. I believe the future is electric cars as primary transportation just not yet.
Though I do think horse and buggy is cheaper and far more greener than electric cars.. just saying
I couldn't use an electric right now with my lifestyle and distance driven either. All I know for sure though is if the technology isn't pursued it will never develop to the point where it is practical. Luckily all the major manufacturers are seeing the sense of it and have models planed for release soon. Elon Musk just went to mass production last week too. Even though I wouldn't want one now, give it ten to fifteen years and see how they are coming along. They are already good in a city though.
think about this....if a gas/diesel car needs 10 gallons to go 300 miles.....and a fully charged electric car will go 200 miles, at some point you will have to charge the electric car.....how much fossil fuel is needed to make the initial charge and the charge at the 200 mile limit ? if it takes 10 gallons of fossil fuel to generate enough electricity to fully charge electric car, what did you gain ? you still created the same pollution either way.....the false narrative behind electric cars is like the global warming sham....plenty of the right people are getting paid to push it and no one has any cures....the movie stars like to make movies about destroying our world while they pollute worse than the average citizen ever will...private jets, big limo's, sports cars, boats and all the while telling the lowly folks to change everything they do to save the world....electric cars are not going to change that....look at Obama right now, a new 6 million dollar home and he preached the global warming for years, don't you think he would have bought a smaller purpose built green home to at least keep the sham going ? or drive around D.C. in an electric car ? at least a hybrid ? hell no, he gets a big gas hog limo with a couple gas hog SUV's taking him everywhere.....it's a sham....
In 10 or 15 years, most if not all new cars will drive themselves. I know one I'm looking at has its own radar and lane departure stuff, but I really like the blind spot monitor. A good friend with a body shop figures it'll kill his business, but at his age it isn't a problem.
In Huntsville close by, there is a huge installation of city owned solar panels. Pretty neat - the panels track the sun. Anyway, there are free car chargers all over the place, some slow, some fast. The city (government) gets about 75% of its power from the panels. I'd like to know the payback period.
If I were a city dweller, I may go for electric for a daily driver, my neighbors kid bought a Tesla. We went for a ride in it. Pretty weird. He stopped on a city street with nobody around, floored it and my neck hurt for 3 days.
The SOB better be great for $128k.....
In Huntsville close by, there is a huge installation of city owned solar panels. Pretty neat - the panels track the sun. Anyway, there are free car chargers all over the place, some slow, some fast. The city (government) gets about 75% of its power from the panels. I'd like to know the payback period.
If I were a city dweller, I may go for electric for a daily driver, my neighbors kid bought a Tesla. We went for a ride in it. Pretty weird. He stopped on a city street with nobody around, floored it and my neck hurt for 3 days.
The SOB better be great for $128k.....
France ? LOL....those idiots can't survive without the world's handouts.....and when there is a big traffic jam or wreck and that electric vehicle dies along with others, will they have another big truck come by and charge them ? a fossil fuel vehicle with a big generator built onto it to give everyone a charge ? those diesel trucks that haul the food, fossil fuels and everything France has to have to survive will still be running for many, many more years.....and even here in the U.S. with the traffic jams, you run out of juice on the road and then what ? one of those fossil fuel vehicles to the rescue.....how many people will keep an electric vehicle after they get stranded in traffic once and run out of juice with no AC or heat ? especially with kids or old people ? won't take long to fire the old Chevy or Ford back up.....exactly the reason why obama and the rest of the clowns are not driving them everyday...the scenarios that show electric vehicles are no savior for anybody are way too numerous to list......
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I still think that some sort of fuel cell powered electric car will be viable in the future.
The problem with battery powered electric cars is the battery, and I think it always will be.
With a fuel cell, you fill up just like you do with a gas or diesel car. What fuel? I dunno. I thought hydrogen, but that doesn't seem to be able to get off the ground. If they ever get the kinks out of the storage issues, then maybe it will be the fuel of the future. Maybe compressed natural gas, with a tank for storing liquified CO2 from the emissions. We're talking about far enough in the future that I'll never see it.
Here is the dirty little secret about hydrogen fuel:
Obama killed the federal program for developing a hydrogen infrastructure. The biggest problem with hydrogen is that anyone can make it. Maybe not efficiently, but anyone that can stick two wires in water can make hydrogen from water.
Why is that a problem you ask? Well, it's a problem because the government has no possible way of preventing people from making their own fuel. Gasoline requires multi million (billion?) dollar refineries to produce. It's easy for the gubbmint to get their grubby little paws in the manufacture, distribution, and sale of gasoline.
A hydrogen fuel cell vehicle is the Utopian dream for personal transportation. You have one emission - water vapor. Zero carbon footprint at the vehicle itself. How much of a carbon footprint is needed for the hydrogen production all depends. No reason you can't produce it at home with solar power.
The problem with battery powered electric cars is the battery, and I think it always will be.
With a fuel cell, you fill up just like you do with a gas or diesel car. What fuel? I dunno. I thought hydrogen, but that doesn't seem to be able to get off the ground. If they ever get the kinks out of the storage issues, then maybe it will be the fuel of the future. Maybe compressed natural gas, with a tank for storing liquified CO2 from the emissions. We're talking about far enough in the future that I'll never see it.
Here is the dirty little secret about hydrogen fuel:
Obama killed the federal program for developing a hydrogen infrastructure. The biggest problem with hydrogen is that anyone can make it. Maybe not efficiently, but anyone that can stick two wires in water can make hydrogen from water.
Why is that a problem you ask? Well, it's a problem because the government has no possible way of preventing people from making their own fuel. Gasoline requires multi million (billion?) dollar refineries to produce. It's easy for the gubbmint to get their grubby little paws in the manufacture, distribution, and sale of gasoline.
A hydrogen fuel cell vehicle is the Utopian dream for personal transportation. You have one emission - water vapor. Zero carbon footprint at the vehicle itself. How much of a carbon footprint is needed for the hydrogen production all depends. No reason you can't produce it at home with solar power.
You got it Doc!
The new mass produced Tessa's are around 35k. It's better than the hand made ones, but not where I would want one yet. When they can do 500 miles in cold weather is when they will start being practical.
Still think horse and buggy is the way to go. A well trained horse can lead ya home while you sleep in the buggy or even take ya to town, self driving, a horse got these self driving cars beat
I remember as a kid they all said we would be driving around in hovercrafts by now. Too bad that one didn't work out.
I'll leave those reindeers to the Sami-people
they handle those far better than I do
And we'd be smacking them into each other as well.
Rental cars blow my mind. I've seen them at my buddy's body shop sliced, shredded, shot up and on and on. Also saw one where one of the voices in a guys head told him he needed to kill his girlfriend, who was sitting in the passenger seat. Amazing how much blood was still dropping out of the car. He rode her around in it a few days before dumping the body.
Yep. They said he stabbed her in the chest 30+ times while driving down the road.... he needs to lose some of the voices for sure....
