EMP's and cars?

[RadicalxEdward]

Hello everyone.

I'm not really a "prepper" myself. I don't really see many valid reasons for extreme prepping (i.e. supplies greater than a few weeks). But I do see the value in being prepared for many situations. The more i've been hearing about it the more i've heard about people claiming an EMP would "set us back to the medieval age" or something of the sort. And one of the examples they give is the EMP frying the computers in modern cars. I'm wondering on this issue specifically if there's any evidence to support that conclusion. I've seen cars tested with man-made lightening strikes and the cars not only stay running but all electronics continue working. The explanation being that the metal of the car acts like a faraday cage. So if that's true, wouldn't the faraday cage effect of the body of the car also protect it from an EMP?

Thank you for taking the time to read and respond to my ques

 

[lonewolf]

I've always heard that an EMP will fry the electronics in a modern car and even with older cars it will fry the battery so making all cars useless. I believe it will also fry the electronics in fuel pumps at filling stations. for that reason my plans for a post EMP world do not involve the use of cars.

 

[jimLE]

here's a link to other links..their about the 1859 Carrington Event (EMP) of 1859..if you read up on it..then you'll know what a emp can and will do,if it's strong/powerful enough to take out electronics..

https://www.google.com/search?q=emp...fficial&client=firefox-a&channel=np&source=hp

 

[Gazrok]

Thing is, there's only been ONE real study on it, and that study was years ago, and only tested a few dozen vehicles.

Here's a link if you'd like to see for yourself:
http://www.empcommission.org/docs/A2473-EMP_Commission-7MB.pdf

We tested a sample of 37 cars in an EMP simulation laboratory, with automobile vintages ranging from 1986 through 2002

Only 3 completely stopped. About 25 had minor issues, but nothing that would prevent operation of the vehicle. 8 had no effect whatsoever. Of course, this was in 2008, so 6 years ago. A LOT has changed since then, especially in cars that have electronic steering and keyless ignition, etc.

So, chances are, most cars would still be drivable. Of course, if the EMP hits suddenly, a lot of cars will be in wrecks due to the few that stop, the signals being affected, etc., etc. So, they'll stop THAT way instead.

The idea that all cars will stop due to an EMP pulse is largely a fallacy based on supposition. Granted, you have to look at the intensity of the field too. But really, there's no real other data to go on.

Warning, if you actually READ the whole report (or the executive summary), you'll realize just how vulnerable our grid is to this scenario.

I've always heard that an EMP will fry the electronics in a modern car and even with older cars it will fry the battery so making all cars useless. I believe it will also fry the electronics in fuel pumps at filling stations. for that reason my plans for a post EMP world do not involve the use of cars.

The more modern the car, the more likely it is to be susceptible, but yes, the battery, even on an older car, could be at risk (but could also be replaced). Yeah, if a severe enough EMP event, could fry the pumps, so there you go. And for those who think they can just take it out of the tanks at the filling station, you should know that it isn't STORED already mixed (i.e. 87, 93 octane, etc.) The dispenser is usually doing that. (Unless you have diesel, then you're good to go).

 

[jimLE]

not only the grid..but everything orbiting earth as well..which will go first,i think..

 

[Gazrok]

1859 Carrington Event

Kind of hard to use this one as a gauge though, since no real electronics much in use at the time, except how the telegraph system went down.

 

[jimLE]

yeah,it did lots of damage thoe...and here's one of the links on that page..they go into at least some detail to what a emp can do..
electrical disturbances as strong as those that took down telegraph machines—"the Internet of the era"—would be far more disruptive.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...storms-earth-danger-carrington-event-science/

 

[Gazrok]

What an idiot (the man quoted below from the article link):

"Imagine large cities without power for a week, a month, or a year," Baker said. "The losses could be $1 to $2 trillion, and the effects could be felt for years."

Losses? Large cities without power for a long period of time wouldn't just be financial losses pal...it would be the SHTF scenario for these folks. It'd make race riots look like calm days of peace. Could you imagine the repercussions of just LA being in the dark for a couple of days? Let alone a year! Losses......what a moron.

 

[Gazrok]

Losing the things orbiting the Earth would suck, but it wouldn't really knock us back to the 1800's, like losing the grid would.

 

[jimLE]

didnt think of a SHTF scenario when i read that..and losing the satellites and all would mess things up.mainly for the folks that depend on them big time.and i cant but help what ppl would react if they had to go at least 1 week without their cell phones,ipods,etc etc

 

[Gazrok]

Yeah, but we did do it for decades....
The other day, my daughter had toasted her cell phone, and I loaned her mine so she could keep in contact.
Man, I just LOVE being without my cell phone actually....hehe....but then, I'm a different generation. That damn infernal gadget is like wearing a slave chain sometimes.

 

[jimLE]

id definitely miss mine,at least at first..then it'd be like,what cell phone? after that..my problem would be..doing without my desktop pc and the internet.

 

[jimLE]

back to vehicles..its said that from 1980 something on back would last a emp..and that it'd have to have good tires on it,and not showing any steel belts.plus having it parked inside something that'd act as a faraday cage at the same time..

 

[Gazrok]

Doesn't even need to really be in a Faraday cage. Under a large enough metal roof, and it would deflect an airburst EMP enough, or so sayeth the engineers. So, if I just drove the trucks into the stable alley, I'd be set.

Even if an older car though, it would still have a battery, that I'd think would be at risk.

Like I said though, the theories really didn't bear out in the only testing they ever did on it. To me, the bigger factor would be that you simply wouldn't be able to gas them up!

 

[jimLE]

i don't trust the testing they do.on account it's done the way THEY want it done..im thinking those metal car ports with tin sides.in which the sides come all the way down to the ground.and doors of some kind on each end of it..and as for gas goes.no pun ..if it looked like we were in for a economic collapse or what ever.thats when youd go into town and stock up on as much gas as possible.then you'd have enough for a few days if ou were carfull with the usage of it...

 

[Gazrok]

Part of my preps plan is to eventually have some fuel drums as well as a gravity fed dispenser hose, on the property. (along with a good supply of Stabil for reconstituting old, scrounged gas).

 

[lonewolf]

wouldn't an EMP shut down the electric grid and make all that electric stuff(doors, pumps, elevators etc etc) non usuable, its not just cars.

 

[jimLE]

yeah it a emp will do that..and thats one reason (at least most folks here) are getting items that dont require electric power..and if i figure right. the fuel drums will be above ground.and the fuel will be able to drain into the fuel tank of what he's filling up

 

[jimLE]

oh yeah..there's also above ground fuel storage tanks,that sit on top of a steel/wooden frame.in which the above ground fuel storage tanks is always above the gas tank thats being filled up..

 

[Gazrok]

oh yeah..there's also above ground fuel storage tanks,that sit on top of a steel/wooden frame.in which the above ground fuel storage tanks is always above the gas tank thats being filled up..

Bingo. That's why I said gravity fed dispenser nozzle. To fill the barrel, will have to use a siphon pump. I have a 151 gallon auxiliary tank on my truck, so could use this to collect during a fuel run. Luckily, diesel doesn't need to be mixed by the dispenser (just stored in an underground tank), so if I can raid abandoned gas stations, etc., can return to the ranch and fill my barrels.

My design for the stand is such that when filling the barrels, the barrels are low, then using a crank to lift them to dispensing height. But, that's a year 2 prep. (I'm at the end of year 1 this year).

 

[lonewolf]

yeah, if you hand pumping from a fuel container into a fuel(gas) tank I think the container has to be higher than the tank its going into.

 

[jimLE]

i know someone with 2 above ground tanks.1 for diesel,and the other for regular.they both set higher then the gas tanks on vehicles and farm equipment...the hose and nozzle coming from the tanks,is the same as on the pumps at gas stations..so all a person has to do..is insert the nozzle and squeeze the handle like we do at gas stations.and gravity does the rest..

 

[jimLE]

here's what im talking about

this link will show more of them
https://www.google.com/search?q=abo...011%2F04%2Fnew-regs-farm-fuel-storage;300;225

 

[Gazrok]

Yep, that is pretty much exactly what I'm going for.

Just like your friend, plan is one for regular, one for diesel. (I'd like to say two for diesel, but honestly, would be VERY expensive to fill two of them).

The actual dispenser nozzles are relatively easy to find also.

 

[jimLE]

the one on the left in the pic is more of the size tanks he has..

 

[Maverick]

A EMP would affect the grid more then the electronic in your home including the car, simply turning off and unplugging the components may be sufficient. Cars and microwave ovens is a poor choice for an EMP defense! Newer vehicles with computer components 'may' be affected and that really depends on the strength of a EMP event, to many variables for any certainty! Microwave ovens only 'contains' the 2.4ghz range (the frequency these ovens operate in) EMP is very very broad frequency spectrum, to protect against this range would require complete isolation thus vehicles and microwave ovens don't offer any protection against a major EMP event!!

Our Faraday made in the USA $21 10gal can

 

[Graynomad]

You can just use a manual drum/barrel pump, easier than building a structure.

http://www.harborfreight.com/barrel-pump-45743.html

Not as easy to use as a gravity feed, but good exercise.

As for phones, I sometimes turn mine off to save power and remember a week later that it's still off I have very little use for a phone although it's real handy at times of course.

 

[Silent Earth]

I think BOTH of the quiz questions are wrong an EMP can cripple a car but not permanently, stuff like relays could fuse shut as a DC current is generated, fuses, bulbs, relays could pack up. But the hard part is vehicles with electronic security systems that could be shorted or damaged or the system thinks its being tampered with and dumps its memory. unfortunately many vehicles not only have security coded chips in the IGNITION system but also often in the FUEL system. My old Ford Van was a diesel with coded keys, when someone tried to steal it the codes that allowed it to work were dumped by the Ignition controls and the fuel lift pump.

Some research by the UK military suggested batteries could be killed and stuff like starter motors become demagnetised or something if enough energy is passed through them.

Some AMERICAN preppers have deliberately bought or BACK dated their vehicles with stuff like MECHANICAL fuel lift pumps, AIR starters and remounted or retrofitted cranking handle lugs on the crank shafts. Some I know keep spare ignition modules, fuses, relays etc in tin boxes as spares incase of EMP.

 

[Maverick]

Though I believe the only way a battery could be damaged by an EMP if it is connected, the affects of lightening striking a car doesn't kill it! lightning E2 exceeds the 50k volts per meter that a nuclear E2 produces, I have read that lightening striking vehicles have popped fuses but no serious damage to the electrical system. The affects is more pertinent to the grid given the long wire runs acting as antennas! If you are within a certain vicinity of a EMP weapons (directed energy weapon) then all bets are off.

 

[Silent Earth]

I'm not skilled or experienced in EMP issues only what I was taught in the military, which was not much, one point I can remember that if a moving vehicle was thoroughly wet from say heavy rain or driving through water and the water was splashed all over the vehicle a lightning strike MAY pass straight to earth as normal but some of the energy will go through the body and electrics as well causing trouble.