Faraday cage question

[Jamesk]

Hello,

I'm new to the forums (and to prepping) so please forgive me if I'm posting this in the wrong section. I want to build a faraday cage out of a 50 cal ammo can or some other strong box that will stand the test of time. And I was wondering how effective/easy the faraday material is you can buy on eBay in rolls vs. aluminum foil? Also if I bought that material at 3mil thick, could I layer it several times for extra protection? Also, I bought several pre assembled bags and was thinking I could store items in the bag, then put them in the box for maximum protection? Sorry for all the questions, I'm just new to all this and it's important to get it right.

 

[WGregMiller]

Welcome to the forum!

Here sis a link to one of the threads above us faraday cages:

http://www.doomsdayprepperforums.co...-is-what-im-reading-a-joke-or-something.7966/

My 2 cents says to search for either faraday or emp. That should get you started. Perhaps give you a headache. It did for me, lol.

 

[Jamesk]

Thanks!!!!

 

[Maverick]

This is what I use; http://doomsdayprepperforums.com/in...g-radio-comms-problems.3073/page-2#post-74554

Further below the post Clyde has a video using this method. Keep in mind all these techniques in books and youtube are theories that offers no guarantees regardless of what you use, even the Military in what it uses would be considered 'scientific theory' in other words should work in multiple real world environments. In our case, might work.

 

[firewallsrus]

Put your cell phone in the ammo can. Close it up tight and call it. If it rings, then RF energy is getting through to the phone.

 

[lonewolf]

whats the point of having a working phone if an EMP has blown all the electronics and electric in everything else?

 

[firewallsrus]

Good question Paul. There isn't a reason I can think to have a cell phone if the system is down whether by EMP or just a collapse. My suggestion was to use a cell phone as a preliminary test of a Faraday cage. If the cell phone rings, you have significant RF leakage. If it doesn't leak, that doesn't guarantee no leakage, but it is a start.

 

[Maverick]

Ammo cans don't complete metal to metal 360 seal, there is a rubber gasket in the lid, even if you take out the rubber gasket the results would be the same if not worse. EMP produces very damaging high energy between 100/- MHz ~ 100/+ GHz, that why appliances like microwaves wont work since they are built to protect against leakage around 2.4GHz (2.450 to be exact) not 100GHz. While most homemade cages may protect from KHz to 5~10GHz it would be hard to protect from charged particles across the spectrum.. unless we have the income of the US Government.

The problem for us laymen we can't test our contraption against charged particles of high energy waves across the spectrum without spending some serious money. When we stick a radio, cell phone etc... in a prepared garbage can to see if the phone rings, radio playing music, the problem is, the radio waves are non-charged particles and easily blocked kind of like non-Ionizing Vs Ionizing radiation.

We need to keep things in perspective with our limited resources

 

[jimLE]

like other's has pointed out.it won't stop a emp.so why not put what ever into it.turn it upside down.then take a soldering iron and solder.and solder it shut.then use a metal tape over that.while making sure there's no wrinkles. n all

 

[tmttactical]

What electronic / electrical devise or component is worth going to all the trouble of trying to protect in an EMP proof cage? If all electronic and electrical systems are down, what device is then needed or even useful?

 

[jimLE]

well urban.there's family's. it could be useful if any amount of them have of have something on their person to inform the others in their family that there's someone heading their way.in which that could be hand held cd to what ever.even a childs walkie talkie "might" be usefull.and of course a solar charging system to keep them charged up will be needed.

 

[tmttactical]

well urban.there's family's. it could be useful if any amount of them have of have something on their person to inform the others in their family that there's someone heading their way.in which that could be hand held cd to what ever.even a childs walkie talkie "might" be usefull.and of course a solar charging system to keep them charged up will be needed.

Aha, and there lies the rub. There is a question if any solar panels will survive an EMP. So not only do you need to lock away the radios/ cb's but also any charging panels. And even then, there is no assurance that any prep will protect against an EMP. I am not saying or telling anybody not to prep for an EMP but it is really at the bottom of MY list.

 

[lonewolf]

I just don't see the point if all the electronics and power is shot, making work for no practical use.
in an EMP my mobile phone and laptop are no more than doorstops.

 

[Proud Prepper]

I just don't see the point if all the electronics and power is shot, making work for no practical use.
in an EMP my mobile phone and laptop are no more than doorstops.

Your thinking in terms of exstremes. Some electronics and systems may work while others dont, some may be repaired at some point. A cell phone that works, even without service has a lot of computing power and can store a lot of information.

 

[lonewolf]

"some may work and some don't" and how the heck will we know which is which until it happens?
sorry, I've got better things to do.

 

[Proud Prepper]

I will know which is which, you won't. Because I will be prepared to know.

 

[lonewolf]

having a mobile phone or a laptop after SHTF is not top of my list, its not even ON my list!
your priorities not mine!

 

[firewallsrus]

Paul, it amazes me that you are putting this much effort into a thread that you profess no interest in. You don't see value in electronics. OK. We got that. Those of us who see knowledge as power having potential validity after an event are discussing ways of making it available. Electronics, when skillfully applied, can be a great force multiplier when it comes to intelligence gathering.

For the others, correct. There are no absolutes. A steel container will block much RF and might protect electronics from EMP depending on the circumstances and the type of electronics. Keep in mind that a 100GHz pulse will induce an electrical current over the outside skin of a perfect Faraday cage. This electric current will nearly all be on the outside surface of the cage due to the skin effect. The inner surface will have an induced current as well, so nothing is perfect protection.

 

[tmttactical]

I think a lot of it comes down to the scale required to protect the devices. I could see a metal garbage can or a broken microwave to protect a few small items but my investigations could not confirm OR disprove if any affordable measures existed to protect electronic / electric devices, including solar panels. Solar is part of my plans for my rural location but i also expect to not have any modern (electrical) devices. Yes start out with solar power, gas generators and even wind turbines but also plan, build and prepare to live without out any electricity or gas equipment. If the EMP does not happen great. If it does and your preps are saved great but if it does happen and you lose it all, then you are still ready to continue on with you life.

 

[firewallsrus]

Gotta agree with the scorpion on this one. Everyone is going to focus on what they think is important. I use a GPS, but my library is full of hard copy maps because they don't require batteries. I update my USGS Topo series maps with a pencil when roads close or open. I don't plan on using a GPS after an event, but if I have a working one, it can be an advantage over someone who does not.

I suspect one the most important weapons for those who live past the first month or so will be a hoe to attack weeds in the garden, but it isn't as sexy as the weapons we enjoy training with.

 

[lonewolf]

it seems to me people are trying to live the same kind of lifestyle they had before SHTF after the collapse, when the stores are empty and the power is down, solar panels might be workable for a short while but you will need a warehouse of spare parts to keep the thing running without a manufacturing base, and as soon as the chemicals wear out the batteries will be useless.
at least a simple, some would say primitive lifestyle would give a base level to work from and we could move forward from there.
in the past when civilisations collapsed the survivors could access their daily needs from their own labour and just wait for "civilisation" to reassert itself no matter how long that took, but that is no longer possible if one relies on modern technology and mass produced products.

 

[firewallsrus]

Again Paul. We get it. You don't want anything to do with technology. Why are you spending time in a thread you profess to have no interest in?

 

[tmttactical]

Again Paul. We get it. You don't want anything to do with technology. Why are you spending time in a thread you profess to have no interest in?

Why do you care if Paul posts opposing views?

 

[DrHenley]

Paul is our friendly neighborhood curmudgeon. Get used to it...

 

[firewallsrus]

Why do you care if Paul posts opposing views?

It's like a few of us having a discussion about the best way to cook our favorite cut of beef, but there's a vegetarian who keeps saying they don't eat meat. That's great for the vegetarian, but it really adds nothing to the conversation.

Mentioning you have no interest in the topic one time should be sufficient. I know a lady at church with Asperger Syndrome who is the same way. She'll walk up to a discussion of the most scenic motorcycle roads nearby. She will opine that she doesn't ride motorcycles because they are dangerous. We nod politely and admit they aren't for everyone then return to the conversation. A moment later she'll say she doesn't ride motorcycles because they are dangerous. We tolerate it from her because of the way hr mind works, but I think Paul just does it because he is bored.

 

[tmttactical]

Weather Paul is bored or not, really does not matter. Simply continue on with your discussion. He has a right to post his dissent as many times as he wishes, the same as you have the right to post your opinion as many time as you wish. When people post opinions I disagree with, I will offer debate and counter points or just move on with the discussion. I am not obligated to control a discussion, neither are other members on this forum, except the Moderators and the ADmin.

 

[lonewolf]

I am merely pointing out the downside of trying to rely on technology in a post SHTF world.

 

[Proud Prepper]

Paul is just trying to save us all. He has a huge heart.

 

[lonewolf]

I've been trying to advise people about how POST SHTF will be for the last nearly 10 years but I don't think anyone's listening!
well not many anyway.

 

[firewallsrus]

Perhaps the trouble Paul is having is that people don't find it credible that Paul has real-world post apocalyptic experience. Unlike the rest of us who speculate on what conditions and duration might be like, Paul already knows the cause, effect, and duration of the specific SHTF event that he knows for a fact will happen. Without such absolute knowledge it isn't possible to do more than speculate on any details.