FARADAY CAGES DO YOU HAVE ONE?

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Debbie Maddox

Debbie Maddox

Friend
Neighbor
Joined
Mar 11, 2018
Messages
19
Location
Fort Worth ,Tx
If you do how did you make yours? With the threats of emps by solar storms or other being so prominent, when do you use yours ? All day every day? Certain times a day?or only one part of the day? When would they come about? day, night? Why? And what do you feel are the important things to have in a Faraday cage? Phones?, tablets, laptops, batteries?,radios? Would that include one of those wind up solar radios?those of you with ham equipment are you using a cage for that? Are satelite phones important to have? Suggestions of type?
 
I'm sceptical regarding faraday cages given much of what we know is in theory only and been tested in an controlled environment.

On an off chance the theory is correct I chose a small garbage can. There's a lot on this in the link Rellgar posted ;)

IMG_3311.JPG
 
I keep trying to quelch these rumors of EMP shielding. I spent a decade doing EMC (electromagnetic compatibility) work. I've studies what the gov't recommends for EMP shielding.

Bottom line. Trash cans are trash. Microwaves are worthless. Cookie tins, fridges, gun safes, etc, they all are worthless.

I'm not going to explain all of it as I've done time and time again. If all you can afford or have right now is a trash can, great, use it. Just be aware that there is a 99.9% likelihood of an EMP destroying everything inside.

To properly shield some equipment, it takes serious enclosures. Basically if water can get in, it won't work. And the metal needs to be thick enough.
 
Personally, I think the best plans you can make for EMP are to have non-electric solutions to your needs. Things like hand powered tools, etc.

While I agree that a lot of it is still untested, and respect TF's experience on it, I'll still be taking at least some small steps towards having an attempt at such shielding (knowing that it may or may not work).

It's still in progress, as I'm still getting some of the things, but the current plan is:

2 Metal Trash Cans: tight fitting lids, lined with thick cardboard, aluminum tape sealed once filled. Items inside wrapped in bubble wrap.

Inside (spread throughout both)

Solar powered e-reader
Jump drives with survival books, information, videos, entertainment, etc.
(2) Cell phones (more for computing needs and playback than calls, takes less to charge than a laptop), disconnected battery
Solar powered cell charger
Cordless Drill with two (removed) batteries
Cordless Jig Saw with two (removed) batteries
Cordless Circular Saw with two (removed) batteries
Solar charger unit with AC plug
Solar battery charger (AA, AAA, C, D, 9v batteries)
Multiple packs of rechargeable AA, AAA, C, D, and 9v batteries
(6) LED rechargeable flashlights
(2) Hand crank radio, flashlight, cell charger tools
(4) rechargeable walkie talkie style handheld radios (for communicating around the ranch)
(2) Portable DVD players (and numerous pairs of headphones)
Small (but powerful) rechargeable bluetooth speaker
(6) Lantern style LED lights (that take the rechargeable batteries)
Trickle charger unit (for car battery)

I'd also like to get a couple of good, metal cabinets and add some aluminum tape flashing to them, line them with thick cardboard, and just use them as an everyday storage place for my other power tools in the garage. That way, they are easy to access (vs. keeping all the other stuff in reserve and sealed) yet always (possibly) protected. Luckily, I have dupes of most tools, so not hard to part with some to be sealed away.

Of course, where the cans are, and where the cabinets would be, are also both in a garage with a large metal roof, so some thoughts are that with an airburst EMP attack, the roof may even help with some of the initial shielding.

Again, since it's all so hypothetical, and most powered items are going to still have a pretty finite life to them, to me, the best bet is to plan on not having power at all. We lived for centuries without it. Do I want to go without it? Nope...but it won't kill us.

Apart from coming from some nukes, I put EMP pretty low on my expected list of SHTF events. But, grid failure is pretty much an inevitability of nearly ANY SHTF scenario, so it's good to plan to be without it.
 
Some other good ideas for additions.....

Spare auto parts with electronics (even bulbs, fuses, etc.)

Electronic medical supplies. (I pretty much have old school, manual versions of most of this, but an electronic version of some are indeed helpful). Like a blood sugar tester, blood pressure monitor, thermometer, etc. (and of course, spare batteries for any of this.)

Medical wise, can't stress how useful a stethoscope is, and knowing how to use it.... (I "borrowed" one from the hospital ages ago...lol) - between amateur vet purposes and home medical, it's come in real handy - not an electronic thing, but just had to mention it.
 
TexasFreedom said:
I keep trying to quelch these rumors of EMP shielding. I spent a decade doing EMC (electromagnetic compatibility) work. I've studies what the gov't recommends for EMP shielding.

Bottom line. Trash cans are trash. Microwaves are worthless. Cookie tins, fridges, gun safes, etc, they all are worthless.

I'm not going to explain all of it as I've done time and time again. If all you can afford or have right now is a trash can, great, use it. Just be aware that there is a 99.9% likelihood of an EMP destroying everything inside.

To properly shield some equipment, it takes serious enclosures. Basically if water can get in, it won't work. And the metal needs to be thick enough.
Click to expand...

I would disagree a bit. You are assuming the worst case scenerio, which the government has in mind with there shielding plans. The type of emp, distance, atmopheric conditions and the type of electronics will make a difference. Its not just the thickness of a faraday cage that matters, but also the damage threshold of a device.
If a device has a damage threshold of an EMP field of 20,000 volts per meter, then reducing the electromagnetic field by a factor of 3 or 4 will be enough to protect it from known weapons, and shielding it by a factor of 10 will protect it from the super-EMP weapons that are believed by many to exist. A very efficient 80 db. faraday cage would reduce the EMP by a factor of 10,000. In other words, it would reduce a 20,000 volts per meter EMP field to 2 volts per meter. This high level of shielding is necessary for some applications, but not for the average consumer (except for the most critical electronics such as an emergency radio receiver). For many applications, an imperfect shield is quite helpful and may be all that is necessary.
A Faraday cage will protect only against the E1 and E2 components of nuclear EMP, and will do no good at all against a severe solar storm. The effects of an EMP from a solor flare and a detonated HEMP is very different.
 
Rellgar said:
Its possable it would work, but alsomremember you need to insulate the objects inside from the metal can and each other.
Click to expand...
Would wrapping in foil twice them a mylar bad then put in the safe work?
Gazrok said:
Personally, I think the best plans you can make for EMP are to have non-electric solutions to your needs. Things like hand powered tools, etc.

While I agree that a lot of it is still untested, and respect TF's experience on it, I'll still be taking at least some small steps towards having an attempt at such shielding (knowing that it may or may not work).

It's still in progress, as I'm still getting some of the things, but the current plan is:

2 Metal Trash Cans: tight fitting lids, lined with thick cardboard, aluminum tape sealed once filled. Items inside wrapped in bubble wrap.

Inside (spread throughout both)

Solar powered e-reader
Jump drives with survival books, information, videos, entertainment, etc.
(2) Cell phones (more for computing needs and playback than calls, takes less to charge than a laptop), disconnected battery
Solar powered cell charger
Cordless Drill with two (removed) batteries
Cordless Jig Saw with two (removed) batteries
Cordless Circular Saw with two (removed) batteries
Solar charger unit with AC plug
Solar battery charger (AA, AAA, C, D, 9v batteries)
Multiple packs of rechargeable AA, AAA, C, D, and 9v batteries
(6) LED rechargeable flashlights
(2) Hand crank radio, flashlight, cell charger tools
(4) rechargeable walkie talkie style handheld radios (for communicating around the ranch)
(2) Portable DVD players (and numerous pairs of headphones)
Small (but powerful) rechargeable bluetooth speaker
(6) Lantern style LED lights (that take the rechargeable batteries)
Trickle charger unit (for car battery)

I'd also like to get a couple of good, metal cabinets and add some aluminum tape flashing to them, line them with thick cardboard, and just use them as an everyday storage place for my other power tools in the garage. That way, they are easy to access (vs. keeping all the other stuff in reserve and sealed) yet always (possibly) protected. Luckily, I have dupes of most tools, so not hard to part with some to be sealed away.

Of course, where the cans are, and where the cabinets would be, are also both in a garage with a large metal roof, so some thoughts are that with an airburst EMP attack, the roof may even help with some of the initial shielding.

Again, since it's all so hypothetical, and most powered items are going to still have a pretty finite life to them, to me, the best bet is to plan on not having power at all. We lived for centuries without it. Do I want to go without it? Nope...but it won't kill us.

Apart from coming from some nukes, I put EMP pretty low on my expected list of SHTF events. But, grid failure is pretty much an inevitability of nearly ANY SHTF scenario, so it's good to plan to be without it.
Click to expand...
Thank you very much
 
I wouldn't recommend wrapping the items themselves in foil.

The main idea for INSIDE the cage is non-conductivity. You want the charge to be on the shell of the cage, not get inside in the first place.

Again though, as some said, it may or may not work. It really hasn't been tested a whole lot, at least in any study released to the public. Even the EMP Commission report that most cite is a) outdated, b) very limited in its testing subjects, and c) severely limited in the scope of what it tested for in the first place.
 
Maverick said:
I have no clue, even the smallest hole will allow some radio waves in, you would have to be to seal it tight, I use aluminum foil and aluminum tape to seal under garbage can lid.
Click to expand...


Actually, radio waves aren't what would cause damage to smaller electronic devices stored in a Faraday cage. It would be the higher frequency gamma radiation that would damage electronic devices.
 
Rellgar said:
I would disagree a bit. You are assuming the worst case scenerio, which the government has in mind with there shielding plans. The type of emp, distance, atmopheric conditions and the type of electronics will make a difference. Its not just the thickness of a faraday cage that matters, but also the damage threshold of a device.
If a device has a damage threshold of an EMP field of 20,000 volts per meter, then reducing the electromagnetic field by a factor of 3 or 4 will be enough to protect it from known weapons, and shielding it by a factor of 10 will protect it from the super-EMP weapons that are believed by many to exist. A very efficient 80 db. faraday cage would reduce the EMP by a factor of 10,000. In other words, it would reduce a 20,000 volts per meter EMP field to 2 volts per meter. This high level of shielding is necessary for some applications, but not for the average consumer (except for the most critical electronics such as an emergency radio receiver). For many applications, an imperfect shield is quite helpful and may be all that is necessary.
A Faraday cage will protect only against the E1 and E2 components of nuclear EMP, and will do no good at all against a severe solar storm. The effects of an EMP from a solor flare and a detonated HEMP is very different.
Click to expand...

There are parts of this I agree with. Location, type of attack, etc all have an impact. Note that E2 is not significant, nearly all equipment today without shielding will handle an EMP's E2. It's the E1 and E3 that will destroy things. E3 will take out everything 'plugged in'. E1 is the component that I think will do the most damage for common electronics. 80 dB of attenuation!!??? I spent thousands of hours in a 'room' that cost a few $million that had that level of shielding. Yes, possible. Yes, necessary in most EMP scenarios. There is no such thing as a 'perfect' shield, you just get XX dB of attenuation. Hopefully you keep a flat response across frequency. But an 'imperfection' in most cases will mean a catastrophic failure in an EMP scenario. But things like trash cans, microwaves, etc, they might buy you a few dB, but far from enough to matter.

For the 'spare car parts' comment, I've got another approach. How about some 'spare cars'? I've got a few pre-computer diesels that you can EMP till the cows come home, and the only thing that will fail is basically the radio. Might blow the diodes in the alternator. But that's about it. I know, most people don't have spare change for extra vehicles let alone spare room.
 
There's actually a pretty decent little prepper book on this, that I got a while back.
Ah, here it is.

https://www.amazon.com/Darkest-Days-Survive-Attack-Grid/dp/B014B254N0

While it focuses on EMP (including some great info like what is mentioned above about E1, E2, and E3), it has some great, general prepper info too.

I know I did NOT pay $50 for it...lol. I think I got it for like $10 or less (or I would have gotten an e-version). Holy crap, can't believe Amazon wants that much for it. (maybe I need to scan, then sell mine?) LOL.

Note, it's a basic level book, mostly good for ideas, not details on other general preps. It does have details about EMP prep though.
 
I'd imagine the cost of such would be a bit daunting. (and unnecessary).

Other than the items I mentioned putting in the cans, I really can't think of many others I'd need in a post EMP event world. Not like there'd be a functioning grid to plug into anyhow.

And those are more "wants" than "needs". I lived without power for 5 days after Irma.

While there would definitely be parts about it that suck (like no AC, and hand pulling the water from the well), we'd get by in the few months it would take to get the world back to wired up. (and yeah, I know the lead time on some of the parts is like 18 months, but you can bet your ass they'd be on this like white on rice to get it done sooner.)
 
If this stemmed from a concern about a NK EMP weapon, I wouldn't worry too much. Our BMDS (Ballistic Missile Defense System) is more than capable of knocking a few NK birds out of the sky. While it won't protect us fully or even well, from a full on Russia or China nuke scenario....NK simply doesn't have enough missiles to carry this out successfully.

The biggest enemy NK has, is time (and with it, money). Maintaining nukes is expensive, and an ongoing process. Even Russia and China struggle with this. The business of NK has long been extorting the west for money, fuel and food. In the past, this has worked. They promise not to pursue nukes, and get this in return. Problem is, they've been caught in the lie too much, so now, they get zip, because I doubt Trump is going to pay the man.

So, eventually, he's not going to have the dough to maintain his existing missiles, build new ones, or even pay and feed the army (and this crap gets real...because now he's open for a coup).

Why do you think they "invited" Trump to a meeting? Because Un has run out of options. He needs to get money and food, but also do it while saving face internationally. Personally, I hope we simply meet and say "so sorry, can't help ya", and just let things happen. (i.e. a China friendly General gets his unpaid, unfed boys together, and they take over).
 
Skeeter said:
Actually, radio waves aren't what would cause damage to smaller electronic devices stored in a Faraday cage. It would be the higher frequency gamma radiation that would damage electronic devices.
Click to expand...

I think you are misunderstanding, frequency is radio wave in form of energy, and no, not gamma is just one part of the frequency not the whole spectrum, gamma is the short end of the radio wavelength
 
Maverick said:
I think you are misunderstanding, frequency is radio wave in form of energy, and no, not gamma is just one part of the frequency not the whole spectrum, gamma is the short end of the radio wavelength
Click to expand...

Skeeter, EMP/CME covers the whole spectrum not just gamma, the whole spectrum is called a wavelength spectrum is divided in two with one being radio spectrum and optical spectrum both of which are frequency wavelength, both are part of the EMP/CME, if you only protect against the short wave that gamma you open oneself to long wave damage.

Hope that explains it. maybe!?!?!
 
Gazrok said:
Can always get two of these bags (one inside the other), and use them for each item. It will give you 80 db of shielding. ;)

https://www.usplastic.com/catalog/i...MIxOu1ucXs2QIVS16GCh11SwPwEAQYASABEgIvLPD_BwE
Click to expand...

This is an example of how 'odd' EMC is. First, if (and a big if) you believe the 40 dB for one bag, when you double them up you only add 3 dB. So 1 bag is 40 dB, double bagged is 43 dB, triple bagged is 46dB, and so on. And note that it's rated 1-10 GHz, only a fraction of the spectrum.

It's a glorified ESD bag. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
If that's so (which seems odd to me), it is what it is...

I still think the best EMP defense is to simply plan as if you just won't have ANY electricity at all, and if you do, then great.

So, since so much of it is an "if" and highly untested, all one can do is do what they can within budget, and hope for the best.
 
Wouldn’t bother me if lose all the electronics. All my deeds and titles I have on paper. We have nothing in digital form that isn’t on paper, if my poor mans faraday trash can works good if not no loss!

We have nothing here right now that requires electricity to sustain life, electricity/electronics is just a convenience at the moment.

Bottom line, do I want to lose it, no, do I need it, no
 
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