Gold…good or bad investment?

[Dave2001]

And many of us did. And bought stocks too.

First silver i ever bought was at $7 an oz

 

[Bacpacker]

I paid 10 bucks an ounce for my first purchases

 

[Dave2001]

In college i saved my lunch money to buy silver at $7 an oz, wish i had bought tome gold too when it was $35 an oz

 

[SoulSeeker]

I don't like buying coinage as it is alloyed. Gold and silver are too soft by themselves so they add copper and silver to gold and copper to silver. If I could get silver coins at a good price I would just to melt them down. They will always hold value but like everything else on the market it goes up or down. I had my step dad buy gold at $1200 an oz and like a dummy without asking sold it at a loss because it went down a little. You buy gold and silver to hang on to it.

 

[Mountain trapper]

I don't like buying coinage as it is alloyed. Gold and silver are too soft by themselves so they add copper and silver to gold and copper to silver. If I could get silver coins at a good price I would just to melt them down. They will always hold value but like everything else on the market it goes up or down. I had my step dad buy gold at $1200 an oz and like a dummy without asking sold it at a loss because it went down a little. You buy gold and silver to hang on to it.

I agree with you that buying PM's is for the long term, same with stocks. Gold and silver bullion is generally .999 fine. Pre 64 silver coins are 90% silver. Of course buyers take that in to account when you sell. Many people do melt their silver coins and pour in to bars, but generally if a silver bar doesn't have a recognized hallmark it'll be difficult to sell without first being assayed.
I've only been collecting PM'S for over 50 years now.

 

[Tacitus]

Yeah, for gold, there is basically:

• Pure gold (.999 fine or 24 karat or 99.9% pure)-- modern bullion coins...very commonly available now (usually kept in plastic to protect them because they are pure and therefore soft) -- if you want pure, non-alloy coins, buy these. (There is no such thing as a 100% pure gold coin, btw; .999 fine is considered pure.)
  • Canadian Gold Maple Leaf
  • US Gold Buffalo
  • Austrian Gold Philharmonic
  • British Gold Britannia
  • Australian Gold Kangaroo
  • China Gold Panda
• Crown Gold (22 karat or 91.667% pure) -- modern US & Krugerrand gold coins (you can handle these with fear of harming them) and older British coins for circulation and daily use -- this was the standard in the United Kingdom for a few hundred years [Wikipedia link for Crown Gold]
  • American Gold Eagle
  • South African Krugerrand
  • Old British Britannia
  • British Sovereigns (just shy of a quarter ounce)
• .900 fine gold (90% pure)-- old gold coins used in circulation
  • US pre-1935 gold coins
  • French 20 Francs
  • Swiss 20 Francs
  • Many other Latin Monetary Union nations (the 20 Francs size, just shy of a fifth ounce, was called other things in other countries; it was the "Euro" before the Euro because the coins were the same regardless of name [barring a few exceptions])

For silver, I think most if not all modern silver coins are .999 fine or 99.9% pure. Granted, older coins meant for circulation were often 90% silver to make them stronger so people could use them on a day to day basis. Silver is not as soft as gold, though, so .999 fine silver coins are more common than .999 fine gold coins, and I don't bother putting each coin in a separate protective plastic capsule.

If a buyer has no intent to melt coins down, then I don't think there is too much of a discount for an alloyed coin. When I buy, I buy American Gold Eagles ("AGE's") and Krugerrands and British Sovereigns because of their global recognition and acceptance. (And, I don't like keeping my coins in individual plastic protective cases.) All of those are Crown Gold. They are a bit cheaper than some 99.9% coins when you sell them, but they are also a bit cheaper when you buy them, so it is a wash in the end, IMO.

 

[Dave2001]

I make sure ALL mine are 999% certified!!

 

[old tex]

Just wondering...
Does anyone think that maybe gold is like stocks in that when everyone is saying buy them, it's time to sell? And when everyone is selling them it's time to buy? You know, buy low, sell high?

 

[Supervisor42]

Just wondering...
Does anyone think that maybe gold is like stocks in that when everyone is saying buy them, it's time to sell? And when everyone is selling them it's time to buy? You know, buy low, sell high?

It does move up and down, but it does not follow the stock market.
It is more influenced by global events.
...Especially like when billionaire$ in Saudi Arabia decide to buy tons of it.

 

[Neb]

It does move up and down, but it does not follow the stock market.
It is more influenced by global events.
...Especially like when billionaire$ in Saudi Arabia decide to buy tons of it.

Yes n no.

As a safe haven gold will attract interest when stocks look lame. When stocks look good money comes out of gold and moves to stocks. When short positions have to be covered, again money comes out of gold.

Inflation has the effect of increasing the price of gold when measured in dollars. That is more an indication of the dollars weakness than gold increasing in value. In the end an oz of gold is worth an oz of gold or a well tailored suit.

Ben

 

[Mountain trapper]

Just wondering...
Does anyone think that maybe gold is like stocks in that when everyone is saying buy them, it's time to sell? And when everyone is selling them it's time to buy? You know, buy low, sell high?

That is the idea. Even though both gold and stocks, for most people, are for long term investing, money can still be made in the short term on both. You can play the gold/silver ratio by trading one for the other based on the ratio.

 

[RATPACKER]

Sometimes I wear my thick gold rope chain with St Basil medal. I have two more that are thinner. Other gold rings & wrist bracelet … those I very seldom wear.
Time is short in life. If you bought them wear them with pride.
I was in the Tavern Business , there, I bought most of my jewelry at a major discount… like I owned a Pawn Shop.

 

[angie_nrs]

I don't like buying coinage as it is alloyed. Gold and silver are too soft by themselves so they add copper and silver to gold and copper to silver. If I could get silver coins at a good price I would just to melt them down.

I guess I don't understand why someone would melt down their coins? My coins have been bought from a reputable seller and their mark and purity (.999 fine) is stamped on the coins. I think they carry way more weight (psychologically speaking) that way, especially to an unseasoned buyer who is wanting authenticity and perhaps doesn't know how to test for that. A seasoned buyer would immediately know they are genuine.

Besides, I wouldn't even know how to melt down my coins. It doesn't really matter b/c I see no advantage to doing so, but perhaps I'm missing something?

 

[Mountain trapper]

I guess I don't understand why someone would melt down their coins? My coins have been bought from a reputable buyer and their mark and purity (.999 fine) is stamped on the coins. I think they carry way more weight (psychologically speaking) that way, especially to an unseasoned buyer who is wanting authenticity and perhaps doesn't know how to test for that. A seasoned buyer would immediately know they are genuine.

Besides, I wouldn't even know how to melt down my coins. It doesn't really matter b/c I see no advantage to doing so, but perhaps I'm missing something?

I think he's referring to US pre 64 90% silver coins that have no numismatic value. Some people like to call it "junk" silver. I've known people who melt down pre 64 dimes, quarters, half and dollar coins and pour bars up to 1,000 ounce each. A couple weeks ago I sold a pile of silver Mexican pesos to a guy that plans on melting them down and pouring bars out of them.

 

[Dave V]

How Much Gold is There?

 

[Phil Evans]

a silver dime bought a can of corn in 1900.
in 2024.
in 2050.

 

[angie_nrs]

I think he's referring to US pre 64 90% silver coins that have no numismatic value. Some people like to call it "junk" silver. I've known people who melt down pre 64 dimes, quarters, half and dollar coins and pour bars up to 1,000 ounce each. A couple weeks ago I sold a pile of silver Mexican pesos to a guy that plans on melting them down and pouring bars out of them.

I still think that leaving the coins 'as is' makes more sense. At least when you sell or buy junk silver, you know what it is. I like the idea of that more-so than a smooth brick of metal that you have to guess on or test. Most people have no idea how to test for purity and many can't do it. Due to that, for myself, I'd rather buy something with markings on it even though I know those can be faked as well.

For newbies, there are some simple ways to check for authenticity of silver. One easy way is to put an ice cube on a silver coin or bar. If it starts melting immediately, it's a good indication that your silver is genuine. It also has a distinct feel and sound to it. I'd point thiese things out to a newbie silver buyer b/c I know MY silver is genuine.

 

[Mountain trapper]

I still think that leaving the coins 'as is' makes more sense. At least when you sell or buy junk silver, you know what it is. I like the idea of that more-so than a smooth brick of metal that you have to guess on or test. Most people have no idea how to test for purity and many can't do it. Due to that, for myself, I'd rather buy something with markings on it even though I know those can be faked as well.

For newbies, there are some simple ways to check for authenticity of silver. One easy way is to put an ice cube on a silver coin or bar. If it starts melting immediately, it's a good indication that your silver is genuine. It also has a distinct feel and sound to it. I'd point thiese things out to a newbie silver buyer b/c I know MY silver is genuine.

I agree. If I want a silver bar, then that's what I would buy. I like having a few bags of $100 face value of pre 64 silver coins. Also silver bars from 1 ounce up to 1000 ounce.

 

[Dave2001]

in 1971 englehard silver bars 999% certified were selling for $7.00 an oz

 

[Tacitus]

I see no advantage to large bars of silver. If you want a lot of wealth stored in one piece of metal, buy gold. I keep my silver coins so I have smaller increments of wealth, like the dime for a can of corn example above. I see no reason to make a big, heavy silver bar when I can have an ounce of gold with no work expended. And with government minted coins, you get more trust from the average person. The average person would likely want to drill through a home made bar of silver to make sure it wasn't plated. More likely, they just wouldn't trust it.

 

[Mountain trapper]

I see no advantage to large bars of silver. If you want a lot of wealth stored in one piece of metal, buy gold. I keep my silver coins so I have smaller increments of wealth, like the dime for a can of corn example above. I see no reason to make a big, heavy silver bar when I can have an ounce of gold with no work expended. And with government minted coins, you get more trust from the average person. The average person would likely want to drill through a home made bar of silver to make sure it wasn't plated.

What's wrong with all the above? I have traded 100 ounce bars of silver before, never had a problem. For smaller purchases or trades there's pre 64 90% silver coins, gold can be had in 1/10th, 1/4, 1/2 and 1 ounce coins and rounds and bars from 1 ounce to 100 ounce. PM's come in many shapes and sizes to fit just about any circumstance. I personally wouldn't pour my own bar of gold or silver without getting it assayed and certified.
When I had my mine I had no problem selling all gold that I wanted to.

 

[angie_nrs]

I agree with Tacitus in that I'd rather have a small gold coin than a large silver bar.....although, I like both. The gold is easier to transport, so that would be the only reason why.

Selling gold from a mine is great with an experienced buyer. As long as you have that, all is well. However, if you are selling to a newbie in PM's that would be a difficult transaction. I'm sure most people would prefer a coin or bar as opposed to gold dust or flakes.

 

[Dave2001]

Thats one thing the floods in NC, GA and Tenn did good, Exposed a LOT of gold in rivers

 

[old tex]

It does move up and down, but it does not follow the stock market.
It is more influenced by global events.
...Especially like when billionaire$ in Saudi Arabia decide to buy tons of it.

My point on that post wasn't to compare stocks & gold. It was to point out that people "pump up" both of them & then sell what they have. Something like I've notice that late night infomercials tend to push gold before it drops.

 

[Tacitus]

Normally i would say do both...belt and suspenders...diversify. But I think gold is a better high wealth storer over silver to begin with. Silver is for lower levels of wealth storage my opinion. I don't see a reason to make one do the job of the other.

My big concern is finding a buyer. I want to be able to sell to /exchange with metals amateurs who may be marginally informed. And, I want the pool of buyers to be as large as possible. I think the pool of people willing to buy a $2500 gold coin minted by a national mint and known & trusted globally for decades (like a Krugerrand) or even centuries (like a British Sovereign), where purity is publicly known or available, is much larger than the pool of people willing to take a heavy silver bar of uncertain purity made by an amateur whom they may have never met and don't know if they can trust. I'm just playing the odds based on the relative sizes of pools of buyers.

Also convenience. I started stacking silver, and it got very heavy and very bulky as i developed some personal fiscal discipline. I has some ten ounce private professional bars, and sold them back and upgraded to national mint gold. I suppose one advantage of a 100 ounce bar is that it is harder to steal, being so heavy...and harder to pawn without attracting attention. But those are also reasons not to own one in the first place.

Personal opinions. No offense intended, as many may disagree with me.

 

[Neb]

No need to limit to only one choice.

We have a cache of gold in 1 oz and smaller coins and rounds to cover TEOTWAKI. Silver coins and rounds to make change for gold transactions. Junk silver to facilitate commerce locally when paper money is worthless. I have the ability to test gold and purity and verify silver.

Glint is a nice place to park money and let it grow with price of gold. The Glint card works like a prepaid card but the purchases are paid in gold rather in dollars. No funny business since the gold is held the Glint vaults.

PHYS is a gold trust suitable for an IRA that tracks with the price of gold. Moving in to and out of gold is just a few key strokes. Like Glint it held in their vaults so no question about validity. PSLV is the same for silver.

Choose the right tool for the job.

Ben

 

[PaulKersey]

For me, rural land has been the best performing investment of my life.

My land (purchased in the mid 1990s) has appreciated ten fold.

Not many low risk/real investments perform that well.

Do you think land values will continue to increase in the future as it has in the past 30 years? I think prices have risen beyond the reach of most people and a real estate crash may be in our future. I can envision a real estate crash beginning in NY, CA and washing across the rest of the country like a financial tsunami.

 

[Hardcalibres]

Do you think land values will continue to increase in the future as it has in the past 30 years? I think prices have risen beyond the reach of most people and a real estate crash may be in our future. I can envision a real estate crash beginning in NY, CA and washing across the rest of the country like a financial tsunami.

Even the wisest cannot know for sure........

But I do rate the probability of a crash like 2008 as being low.

Back then you had a global financial crisis that was caused by banking/mortgage speculation/scamming.....which is a rare cause for a GFC.

The average crisis/crash is about speculation in non-real assets........so real assets are more often where money flees to during a crisis.

Affordability is an issue......but a different type of person/entity seems to be driving rises.

One threat to property prices would be gov actions to stop foreign investment......that could result in stagnant prices for a while.

 

[PaulKersey]

If Harris is elected, I expect real estate prices and value to crash or at very east stagnate for many years to come.

 

[Supervisor42]

If Harris is elected, I expect real estate prices and value to crash or at very least stagnate for many years to come.

I think it may more a 'return to normal' than a crash because they have been hugely inflated for years.
For anyone that was around when the last 'housing bubble' burst, it will be no surprise.
History will repeat itself:

The housing market crash of 2008 remains one of the most significant events in the history of the United States housing market. It was caused by a combination of factors, including the subprime mortgage crisis, high levels of debt, and a lack of regulation in the financial sector.

When prices double in 2 years, that ain't normal.