How long?

[Paladin]

How long? That's the question, the topic for debate. Not until a collapse. That question is far to arguable. What I'm asking is for after the crunch. How long after the crunch can a attempt to rebuild civilised society be made? I'd imagine for years after the SHTF. That raiders, gangs/cartels, refugees, and the like will be roaming the land for a while. And that their numbers can and will pose a grave threat on any upstart "towns".
Our populations are in the multimillions, per city in some parts. Now subtract all the casualties from the murder and starvation. And don't forget disease and weather casualties. And their still gonna be beaucoup people carving a existence out by whatever means. How long until something like a town can be created?

I think the best way to get a idea, Is by looking at the past. Americas western expansion would be the most recent example. The birth of what would be major cities all started off as trading hubs. Small pockets of people surviving on their own but trading is always the catalyst for a town. It usually starts as a tradepost, Then over time expands. Now I'm sure theres more to it than that. But I'm sure the chain is something like. Trade, security, shelter, vendor and authority. So I believe were gonna be returning to a late 1800's early 1900's way of life. So bandits are going to make a comeback.
The more I think about it. It seems the western towns of old will be seen again. HA! Think old west meets Barter Town.

So it seems we as preppers, survivalists and homesteaders are going to be what sets the pace on rebuilding our nation.

 

[QuietH3art]

The survival of mankind requires that we form communities. Yes, people can go off by themselves and be self-sufficient, but that does not provide for the continuation of mankind, but just the survival of that one man/family.
This is why it's so important that we all take the time to meet now. So we know who we want to form communities with in a future post-SHTF. Then, it may be hit or miss that we meet up with people we can trust and want to include in the formation of communities. I read a lot of dystopian fiction. Much of it focuses on how mankind devolves. It always takes very strong communities with people of many talents to fight off the predators who would simply take what they want.
Unfortunately, as many good people as there are in the world, there are as many if not more who are not good. That is my biggest fear and my reason for not wanting to have to go it alone out there.

 

[jontte]

good valid arguments from both of you,I wish I could put my thoughts down in a manner that it would make sense, but starting a new community from a tradingpost has been and propably will be the catalyst that keeps us going, history prooves that already,all major citys here in the nordic has been created where trading and commerce excists and we will rebuild most likely by useing well proven old methods if needed

 

[Gazrok]

How long after the crunch can a attempt to rebuild civilised society be made?

Obviously, it's going to depend on the nature of the SHTF event, and just how bad things get, and how widespread they are. Key factors are going to be whether or not the threat is something that the majority of government and military survive. THAT will be the real deciding factor. With it, order is likely going to be restored fairly quickly. Without it, could see more years of more medieval type rule, etc.

 

[Silent Bob]

Plan to stay isolated way after communities begin to build.

 

[QuietH3art]

Plan to stay isolated way after communities begin to build.

That will definitely contribute to your family's survival but not to survival of humanity as a whole.

 

[jontte]

if it goes medival,it means some types of warlords for some time,who they might be,I really don't know

 

[psalm 7]

Look at how our Ancestors dealt with things . They had Pandimics , starvation , war's , natural dasasters . The ones that have studied this like the Preppers will have a big advantage . Thoes that stand infront of a microwave screeming hurry up will have a real problem .

 

[jontte]

no tv-dinners from the supermarket,

 

[lonewolf]

if it all goes back to a very basic level, then it will be a long time before any kind of community or settlement will even start to form. first off it will be "subsistence" farming just growing enough food for you and yours. personally I don't want anything to do with rebuilding society, i'll be happier on my own away from other people(don't trust them you see), once you start rebuilding so called society then all the " I was born to lead" types start crawling out of the woodwork, we've had enough of politicians messing things up to last us a lifetime.

 

[Silent Earth]

Oh great just look what I have to look forward to, bloody Vikings from Scandinavia invading and Colonials kicking off with more bloody revolutions Sheesh

 

[Silent Earth]

This is the fate that awaits Britain, death by immigration. 64 million people on an island only the same size as Kansas and much of that is mountainous and we get 400,000 more bloody migrants in one year.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27972335

 

[psalm 7]

Just like here . These Immigrants dont want to be part of our Country they want to change it to thiers . You can drive to parts of any state and you would think you are in another part of the world .

 

[lonewolf]

sounds like the major British cities, 90% of pupils in the schools don't speak English.

 

[jontte]

hmmmmmmm,perhaps I should learn to build viking longboats,and let my hair grow and beard also

 

[lonewolf]

you cant get into Valhalla without the last two!!!

 

[jontte]

dang,and I just had a haircut

 

[lonewolf]

I haven't had a haircut or a shave since 1985 !!!

 

[psalm 7]

My Ancestors were Waelsh and Irish . They came to the U.S and have been here in Tennessee and Alabama since 1780's

 

[jontte]

I sometimes wonder if I would have relatives in the US, alot of people did immigrate from here in the mid and late 1800's

 

[Paladin]

immigration has always played a role in nation building, For good or bad is easily debatable. Weather or not the migrating culture is looking to become part of its new country is crucial. Wasnt long ago that the Irish was considered a plague. All whisky and potatoes that bunch. Then German, Chines, And italians Now its Mexicans.
I think whats changed is how political correctness and how the host nations is being bullied into conforming to appease a culture that has no interests or willingness to adopt or conform to our culture. I know UK muslims immigrants are down right hostile to anyone not willing to submit to islam. And like in the US being patriotic to our nation is being labeled racist and discriminating.

 

[jontte]

that seems to be the problem of today, new immigrants don't wan't to assimilate to their new home country, this doesn't meen that you abandon all your traditions,as an immigrant have your traditions but don't try to enforce them upon your new home country as the one and only.
that racist label is so easy to use and I have dealt with that issue alot at work and god forbidd if you are patriotic and proud of your country than you are definately a racist, you know, I sometimes miss the cold-war times,thight controls at the border,if you didn't have the correct documents;no entry...
in a shtf situation some groups will cause trouble,alot of trouble

 

[Silent Earth]

Over here we have happily integrated hugonets, poles, displaced jews, indian Sikhs, Asian deported from Uganda loads and loads of em, with one unfortunate exception who appear to think we should change British culture to suit them and our politicians have basically acceded to all their demands. Some 30 years ago I had never heard of Islam or Muslims, today nearly ever other story in the media is about they, they are offended, insulted by anything not Islamic, they demand special treatment and LARGE numbers of them open express hatred for the west / US / UK. I am a remarkably easy going chap but my opinion currently of Islam is negative and getting worse.

 

[jontte]

I think that you too have some sort of midsummer festivities like we have have here in Finland,it was about 3 days before the midsummer and some imam said in an intervju that he will place a fatwa over this midsummer festivities, we should no longer have this midsummer 'cause in his mind it's blasphemy

 

[Paladin]

politicians eager to be the "progressive" runner. Matters not if the groups almost completely composed of illegal immigrants, Drain public funds, live off state benefits and demand we forsake our nations culture. All while voicing their hatred of us. A vote is a vote.

I don't care where you come from, What name your god goes by, Or if you ideals differ from mine. As long as you pay you're taxes. Don't fly foreign flags on American soil. And for gods sake force your beliefs on others.

 

[Silent Earth]

Yes we Celebrate the Summer solstice, huge numbers of Pagans live happily in the Uk they like to go to Stonehenge for the Solstice, and Yes the muslims are offended by it, Christianity, Judism, Dogs, educated Women, Non Halal meat, guide dogs, equal rights, mixed schools, sex education, any religious education cept islam etc etc etc.

 

[psalm 7]

I don't mind the flags . I like to see folks enjoy thier heratidge . But there are communities in the U.S that are calling for shariea law to trump the courts . And once nice places to visit that look like 3rd world countries . I sometimes wonder what if these people that say they want a better life should stay and fix thier own country and make a better life for all .

 

[Silent Bob]

I sometimes wonder if I would have relatives in the US, alot of people did immigrate from here in the mid and late 1800's

They would be in the Dakota's and Minnesota! Jontte....my wife is Norwegian, German and Ukrainian...kids are definetly Heniz 57 with the Scotch-Irish and Japanese mix to boot from my side. If I remember right...one of my wife's aunt's husband traces roots back to Finland. Part of the melting pot of America.

 

[jontte]

yeah,sometimes I just wonder 'cause I found my family name on the memorial wall, I know that it doesn't neccesary mean anything,but it would be nuce to know

 

[psalm 7]

There is a strong Northern European influence in the upper Mid West . Like Polka .