Illegal Alien discussion thread

[Spikedriver]

I'm just saying bring back the chain gangs for our spoiled little texting nationals and cut off welfare to all.Then we don't have to bring in the world to do their work.

Good luck with that...

I'm not trying to be snarky. It's just that with the influx of millennials and gen Z into the voter ranks, anything that requires work will be downvoted in a heartbeat...

 

[Meerkat]

Ok I'm done with this immigrant thing, don't know why I am so involved in ti anyway.
They sure can't do any worse to this nation than we have so why worry about it.
Maybe they will learn from our mistakes and make america great again.

 

[Meerkat]

Good luck with that...

I'm not trying to be snarky. It's just that with the influx of millennials and gen Z into the voter ranks, anything that requires work will be downvoted in a heartbeat...

You got that right.

 

[Meerkat]

@SuperV you want to drink to my retiring from giving a BS? I'm throwing my into the ring.
Haven't even poured one yet but I feel better already.I may have the good stuff today,Crown .:lil guy:

 

[Supervisor42]

@SuperV you want to drink to my retiring from giving a BS? I'm throwing my into the ring.
Haven't even poured one yet but I feel better already.I may have the good stuff today,Crown .:lil guy:

I may have to have some Crown too.:lil guy:
BTW, I agree with all of your points. Never slack-up.
This is all about having fun with a lively discussion .

@Everyoneelse: Madeya' look!!!

 

[Woody]

For ‘doing the work no one else will do’, this is the United States with a Capitalistic business model. This is a 100 level intro to Business class.

If money can be made by bringing a product to market, a way will be found to do so… And the most cost-effective way. For many of these manual labor, illegal immigrant required jobs, they use them because they are the most cost-effective way to produce a product and bring it to market and make money. Remove them from the equation, another way will be found to bring a product to market at a price that will sell. If not, that product will not be produced anymore and a similar yet more cost-effective product will take its place. Supply and demand. If there is a demand, there will be a supply to meet that demand. The price will fluctuate and find an equilibrium. Too high, no one buys. Too low, they cannot make money so stop producing.

Be it using illegal labor or domestic labor the wages paid will find an equilibrium where the market will accept the price. If labor becomes too expensive, the manufacturer finds an automated process. If a foreign produce can sell a similar quality product for less, the business owner has two choices: Find a way to meet that price and still make money or, find a different product to produce.

And, yes. This does have to do with the topic at hand. Illegal immigrants are part of this equation. Take them out and the market will adjust. Currently, they are just the cheapest way to make a product and get it to market, that is why they want them and that is why they come.

If we look at something like Apples, which I know little about producing except for having a tree at one time and like apples…. At work the #10 cans of apples all come from China. Produced there or just canned there I have no idea. But they can bring that product to market at a price folks will buy. A domestic producer will either have to meet that price or find a way to convince consumers why there are ‘better’ and worth more to purchase.

 

[Meerkat]

I may have to have some Crown too.:lil guy:
BTW, I agree with all of your points. Never slack-up.
This is all about having fun with a lively discussion .

@Everyoneelse: Madeya' look!!!View attachment 43504

SuperV why not? Almost time to 'clink,clink,closest thing I can think that ice hitting the glass would sound like.

 

[backlash]

(So, how am I doing so far as a pretend-liberal?

)

Actually you're not doing a very good job at imitating a liberal.
You haven't cussed, called people names, accused them of being racist, homophobe, misogynic, and mostly you haven't blamed Trump.
Now get into the bottle of Crown Royal and step up your game.

 

[Supervisor42]

Actually you're not doing a very good job at imitating a liberal.
You haven't cussed, called people names, accused them of being racist, homophobe, misogynic, and mostly you haven't blamed Trump.
Now get into the bottle of Crown Royal and step up your game.

I'm sorry!!
#Me>

 

[SheepDog]

I don't know anyone who is anti- immigrant. I do know a lot of folks who are anti-illegal alien residents. There is a BIG difference. My ancestors immigrated to the USA before there were any immigration laws. I have ancestors who fought in all three wars on American soil as well as WWI, WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. None since then but how much can one family do?

Those who enter the USA illegally are NOT immigrants. They are criminals sucking our tax dollars and defrauding our population. Just because they have kids here does not mean their kids are US citizens. The law requires the parents to be under the jurisdiction of the USA and illegals are still citizens of a different country just like consuls and foreign representatives.

 

[Supervisor42]

I don't know anyone who is anti- immigrant. I do know a lot of folks who are anti-illegal alien residents. There is a BIG difference. My ancestors immigrated to the USA before there were any immigration laws. I have ancestors who fought in all three wars on American soil as well as WWI, WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. None since then but how much can one family do?

Those who enter the USA illegally are NOT immigrants. They are criminals sucking our tax dollars and defrauding our population. Just because they have kids here does not mean their kids are US citizens. The law requires the parents to be under the jurisdiction of the USA and illegals are still citizens of a different country just like consuls and foreign representatives.

Now THAT is a good rebuttal!
Well, he didn't use the word Hispanic, or gay, or female so I can't call him "racist, homophobe, or misogynistic". Those bullets won't work .
They still haven't changed the law so the spawn of immigrants born here (even from illegals) have a birth-certificate that looks just like ours, and they are just as American as we are. There is no converting them (or us) back into non-citizens.

So, who is going to pick the strawberries?

 

[SheepDog]

When I was in grade school we used to go picking. Wait for the farm bus to show up hop on board and when we got to the farm we were given flats to fill. At the end of the day you walked away with a few bucks and were ready to go the next day. If you goofed off and went swimming when you were supposed to be picking you were told not to come back. We had a sack lunch that we brought from home an I used my canteen for water. If you get enough kids out on the farm you can do a pretty good job of picking strawberries, beans, or whatever they need picked.
That might teach kids what a piece of strawberry shortcake is really worth. Of course you have to get them to put their phone away and get off their lazy donkey to be physically active and do a meaningful days work. They might even pickup a real work ethic when they realize that they get paid for the work they do and not just for showing up. Good lessons to learn at a young age.

 

[Frodo]

The H1B visas are all college educated professionals. They are not here to pick strawberries!
The million immigrants that are granted citizenship every year, most are ones that have been in the country for over a decade, have become successful, and followed the legal pathway to citizenship. They ain't pickin' strawberries either!
The masses that apply for asylum and are granted asylum will work however.

And unless we have Native American blood in our veins, our ancestors were ALL immigrants to this country.
Every single one of us owes our very existence to immigration.
Without it, we wouldn't even be here.
Are you still anti-immigrant?

(So, how am I doing so far as a pretend-liberal?View attachment 43490)

I said from the beginning paragraph I am PRO immigration but am anti ILLEGAL Alien
YES, Our ancestors were immigrants, and when they arrived in this country at ellis Island they did not prance off the ship and disappear into the city, they were screened and vetted. below is the process they went through


What Process Did Immigrants Go Through When They Arrived at Ellis Island in the Late 1800s?
The European immigrants who crossed the Atlantic on ships in the late 1800s and early 1900s were greeted by the Statue of Liberty. But before they could embark on their new life in the United States, they had to undergo examination and inspection. For most immigrants arriving to the northeast in 1892 and the decades that followed, this meant a stressful trip through the buildings on Ellis Island.




Waiting and Long Lines
When ships arrived in harbor, inspectors boarded the ship to perform a cursory inspection of first- and usually second-class passengers. The government thought that passengers who could afford a first- or second-class ticket they were less likely to become a burden to the public. These passengers were only sent to Ellis Island if they failed the cursory health or legal inspection. Meanwhile, lower-class passengers were transported from the pier where their ship had docked to Ellis Island on barges or ferries, often in very crowded conditions. Passengers would often have to wait for hours on these barges to enter Ellis Island, lacking food, water, toilets or protection from the elements.
Health Inspection
As immigrants filed through Ellis Island's large registry room, doctors would briefly scan each immigrant for obvious physical or mental health issues. Doctors or nurses used chalk to write letters on an immigrant's clothes to indicate possible health problems. An "H" indicated a possible heart condition while "LCD" meant loathsome contagious disease. Eventually, these rapid-fire physical health inspections came to be known as "six-second physicals."


A Barrage of Questions
The Immigration Service collected arrival manifests from incoming ships. The manifests contained passenger names as well as answers to several questions. An inspector, usually accompanied by an interpreter, asked each passenger a series of questions about potential destinations and job prospects.

Detention and Hearings
If immigrants failed the medical or immigration inspection, they were placed in detention until they could have a hearing in front of the Board of Special Inquiry, composed of inspectors. According to the National Archives at New York City, about 10 percent of immigrants had hearings, where evidence about the immigrant's medical health, economic conditions and beliefs was provided. Exclusion was often reversed if someone posted bond for an immigrant or an aid society took responsibility for the immigrant. Only about 2 percent of immigrants were deported, usually because they were considered a "likely public charge" on medical or economic grounds.
Paying the Way
Until 1909, immigrants entering the United States had to pay a head tax of 50 cents per person. This money contributed to the funding for the Office of Immigration. Ellis Island also hosted food vendors, immigrant aid societies and railroad ticket offices. When immigrant was detained, often for weeks, unscrupulous food contractors, money changers and sometimes even federal employees preyed on the vulnerable immigrant hopefuls.

The debate gets clouded when those constantly toss the word immigrant into the conversation.
NO ONE is anti Immigrant. The topic is anti ILLEGAL ALIEN. There is a huge difference in the 2
ILLEGAL ALIENS do not pass through te health or background screening that is required.
Right NOW, We have meat packing plants in the USA that have higher than normal numbers of the virus detected in the employees. It would be Very interesting to know how many of those employees are new here or have relatives in there homes that are recent illegal border crosser.

 

[Morgan101]

Just to cast my vote I am totally against illegal immigration. IMHO it is favored by the left because they are pandering for votes which they will allow to illegals to stay in power. You can bet the ranch if the trend changed, and illegals were voting for Republicans they would close the border in a heartbeat.

Just for argument/discussion sake I will throw something out to the group. I will contend that the United States is NOT a country of immigrants, and never has been. When the first settlers came here they were not immigrants. There was no country to immigrate to. If you are a native American you might call them an invading force, but they were not immigrants.

Once the colonies were established the "immigrant" population as a percentage was quite low. In the early days it was less than 10%. Even today it is less than 15%. That has held true throughout our history. The dramatic population growth even in colonial times was from new children who were born here. I was born here. My father was born here. My Grandfather was born here. We are not immigrants. We are native born Americans.

What do you all think?

 

[Amish Heart]

I am 10th generation here. From the first Amish ship (there were two). There wasn't an Ellis Island then. Our family line had lots of kids, and only married in the Amish community. I don't think of myself as an immigrant. It's been hundreds of years.

 

[backlash]

I am a native-born American, as were my Parents, Grandparents, Great Grandparents, and so on down the line. Even the American Indian's ancestors come here from somewhere. They didn't just sprout up.
I am not a hyphenated American, I am an American. People need to make up their minds. Are they Black-American, Mexican-American, etc? Pick one or the other.

 

[Supervisor42]

I said from the beginning paragraph I am PRO immigration but am anti ILLEGAL Alien
YES, Our ancestors were immigrants, and when they arrived in this country at ellis Island they did not prance off the ship and disappear into the city, they were screened and vetted. below is the process they went through
What Process Did Immigrants Go Through When They Arrived at Ellis Island in the Late 1800s?
The European immigrants who crossed the Atlantic on ships in the late 1800s and early 1900s were greeted by the Statue of Liberty. But before they could embark on their new life in the United States, they had to undergo examination and inspection. For most immigrants arriving to the northeast in 1892 and the decades that followed, this meant a stressful trip through the buildings on Ellis Island.




Waiting and Long Lines
When ships arrived in harbor, inspectors boarded the ship to perform a cursory inspection of first- and usually second-class passengers. The government thought that passengers who could afford a first- or second-class ticket they were less likely to become a burden to the public. These passengers were only sent to Ellis Island if they failed the cursory health or legal inspection. Meanwhile, lower-class passengers were transported from the pier where their ship had docked to Ellis Island on barges or ferries, often in very crowded conditions. Passengers would often have to wait for hours on these barges to enter Ellis Island, lacking food, water, toilets or protection from the elements.
Health Inspection
As immigrants filed through Ellis Island's large registry room, doctors would briefly scan each immigrant for obvious physical or mental health issues. Doctors or nurses used chalk to write letters on an immigrant's clothes to indicate possible health problems. An "H" indicated a possible heart condition while "LCD" meant loathsome contagious disease. Eventually, these rapid-fire physical health inspections came to be known as "six-second physicals."


A Barrage of Questions
The Immigration Service collected arrival manifests from incoming ships. The manifests contained passenger names as well as answers to several questions. An inspector, usually accompanied by an interpreter, asked each passenger a series of questions about potential destinations and job prospects.

Detention and Hearings
If immigrants failed the medical or immigration inspection, they were placed in detention until they could have a hearing in front of the Board of Special Inquiry, composed of inspectors. According to the National Archives at New York City, about 10 percent of immigrants had hearings, where evidence about the immigrant's medical health, economic conditions and beliefs was provided. Exclusion was often reversed if someone posted bond for an immigrant or an aid society took responsibility for the immigrant. Only about 2 percent of immigrants were deported, usually because they were considered a "likely public charge" on medical or economic grounds.
Paying the Way
Until 1909, immigrants entering the United States had to pay a head tax of 50 cents per person. This money contributed to the funding for the Office of Immigration. Ellis Island also hosted food vendors, immigrant aid societies and railroad ticket offices. When immigrant was detained, often for weeks, unscrupulous food contractors, money changers and sometimes even federal employees preyed on the vulnerable immigrant hopefuls.

The debate gets clouded when those constantly toss the word immigrant into the conversation.
NO ONE is anti Immigrant. The topic is anti ILLEGAL ALIEN. There is a huge difference in the 2
ILLEGAL ALIENS do not pass through te health or background screening that is required.
Right NOW, We have meat packing plants in the USA that have higher than normal numbers of the virus detected in the employees. It would be Very interesting to know how many of those employees are new here or have relatives in there homes that are recent illegal border crosser.

Do you think if this system was put back in place (or one like it) that it would work?
And I wonder what happened to it?
As it is now, we pretty much give them no legal way to come here and then complain that they are 'illegal'.

 

[Meerkat]

I am a native-born American, as were my Parents, Grandparents, Great Grandparents, and so on down the line. Even the American Indian's ancestors come here from somewhere. They didn't just sprout up.
I am not a hyphenated American, I am an American. People need to make up their minds. Are they Black-American, Mexican-American, etc? Pick one or the other.

Don't tell anyone who was educated here in the last 102 years but there is also evidence of the Vikings here before the Asians aka American Indians came across the Eurasian Steppe and later into the Americas.

What happend to those peolpe?

 

[Frodo]

Do you think if this system was put back in place (or one like it) that it would work?
And I wonder what happened to it?
As it is now, we pretty much give them no legal way to come here and then complain that they are 'illegal'.

We do give them a way to come here, what we do not do is open the gate and holler ya'll come on in.
I Disagree with the Assumprtion that we have jobs here that Americans will not do.
The cases that have been used to prove this point have all been tales of kids getting out of high school.
That makes me giggle. teenagers are lazy because they are teen agers. The people filling these jobs are older, non educated, minimum wage workers who by choice have decided not to seek an education but make a carer flipping burgers, picking peas, pouring concrete or sweeping floors.
It USED to be back in the day. that burger flipping jobs and target associate jobs were entry level jobs into the work force for highschool students. that era is gone. unwed mothers and fathers that have been down sized rely on those jobs that the illegals take

 

[Morgan101]

IMHO what we have failed to do is vet the people who are coming in. When we had a policy we allowed people in who shared our VALUES. People who wanted to be Americans. People who wanted the American dream. They learned English. The passed the immigration tests to progress to citizenship. Sure, they all had their own neighborhoods or areas, but they all wanted to be American.

Now people are coming in who have no intention of assimilating into American culture. They want to make this country as bad as the one they came from. I would deport those people in a heartbeat.