Liquid fuel vs. propane bottles for lanterns and cook stoves

[TexPrep]

I have no idea if this is true. I thought I read somewhere that the new 1lb propane bottles have a new style valve that prevents filling off of a larger bulk propane tank.. Can anyone confirm that is true? Would be very helpful for propane users.

Cant say I've heard about this.
I still fill my 1lb canisters and havent ran across any I cant refill. You do have to check the needle valve after filling,they sometimes leak and you have to fiddle with them to get em to stop. A little spit will tell you real quick if it's leaking.
I've started going away from the 1lb canisters and just getting the tree for the large propane tanks that have multiple connection points.
It makes it easy when it comes time for cooking and having light to do so.
When you need to roam around I just use a headlamp with rechargeable batteries.

 

[MNwr786]

I have no idea if this is true. I thought I read somewhere that the new 1lb propane bottles have a new style valve that prevents filling off of a larger bulk propane tank.. Can anyone confirm that is true? Would be very helpful for propane users.

I refill mine all the time. There are a couple tricks to it though. For one, put your empty in the freezer for a while before refilling. Then, while filling, have a forcep or needle nose ready because if you pull on that little shrader valve to release gas vapor, it makes it easier for the liquid to enter. You will be surrounded by flammable gas doing it this way, so be very careful to not be around open flame. Also, as TexPrep said, they will often leak. Both valves... Sometimes rust or debris gets in the valve seat, and sometimes the propane ices them up. With debris, its as simple as venting a little gas to blow it clear, but the ice problem (moisture will get in there, don't ask me how), a wet rag will often thaw it to the point venting will make it seat properly. Just triple check for leaks and never store them in your house. Also, keep those little plastic caps too because the main valve likes to rust quickly beyond one use and dust also screw up the valve. Keep that valve clean!

 

[Illini Warrior]

Cant say I've heard about this.
I still fill my 1lb canisters and havent ran across any I cant refill. You do have to check the needle valve after filling,they sometimes leak and you have to fiddle with them to get em to stop. A little spit will tell you real quick if it's leaking.
I've started going away from the 1lb canisters and just getting the tree for the large propane tanks that have multiple connection points.
It makes it easy when it comes time for cooking and having light to do so.
When you need to roam around I just use a headlamp with rechargeable batteries.

the 1lb bottles "ice up" the neoprene gasket and Schrader valve during re-filling - if you have a little warm water you can usually get the whole unit to re-set and quit leaking - age and the number re-fills also tends to influence the problem ....

 

[MNwr786]

I still have my grandma's 3-burner white gas stove. I even have a new replacement pump for it when that goes bad (technically, two, as I have another tank with a pump too). I used it last year when the power failed (before we got a propane range). I really don't care for the propane ones. They work good and are slimmer, but being able to run gasoline if needed is a huge bonus and I like the fuel tank in front rather than hanging off the side. I recently cleaned ours out because it was not burning properly. Turned out, the problem was modern stupidity and the pooling of white gas in the base of the burners and piping.. The convenience of my last propane camp stove (which was stolen) had me forget to keep the middle burner on (which keeps the fuel tube heated and vaporizes the liquid fuel). After that refresher on how they are supposed to work, it was cooking like I remember it working for grandma! I even pre-heat that fuel tube with a butane torch before starting it and I haven't had a single issue since. No more sooty flame, she burns blue again That thing will outlast my children's children (if I ever have any)!

 

[Jim Costa]

If you use a propane camp stove you might want to stop purchasing the 1 Lb. Canisters as they are too
expensive. You can cook for 1/9th of the canister cost by purchasing a $14 adapter hose and use
currently owned 20 Lb. (max) Propane tanks.

48. Fuel Storage For Cooking.

To begin with, before taking economic advise about stove fuels it must be recognized that you must
first consider your expected future group size, months of activation, if you will be staying in one
location, what equipment you have to start with and if you will be doing group cooking. You have to
consider this before you can begin, otherwise you may paint yourself into a corner.

The cheapest cooking fuel is twigs gathered for a homemade Rocket stove. But cooking for 50 persons
many months may expose you to danger in your daily search away from camp for twigs.

That brings us to Propane and liquid gasoline. So lets get to the bottom line – the costs (when
compared in BTUs).

If you use a propane camp stove you might want to stop purchasing the 1 Lb. Canisters as they are too
expensive. You can cook for 1/9th of the canister cost by purchasing a $14 adapter hose and use
currently owned 20 Lb. (max) Propane tanks.

Or you can have the same savings by using a $88 Coleman liquid Gasoline stove and using unleaded
gasoline.

Why Use liquid gasoline? A 50 Gallon storage drum costs $30 and will store up to 6,250,000 BTUs
of energy. That amount of BTUs would require (23) 20 Gal. Propane tanks ($750), thus a savings of
$720 in storage costs using new tanks. Plus the gasoline can also be used for engines.

Therefore, you might consider using Rocket stoves, Propane and liquid Gasoline for stove fuel, but use
the canisters sparingly. If in a large group for a long time, then lean heavily on liquid gasoline.
Note: A 30 Lb. tank can use a $8 adapter to refill 1 Lb. Canisters. Then when the tank is down to 20
lbs, the $14 hose adopter can be hooked to the stove.

Rate of BTU Consumption. That will be a most difficult job for you to determine. Just boiling water
for freeze dried food or cooking dried beans for two hours? Will some members be leaving when they
run out of food early? Cooking three or two meals per day? One pot meals?
The only real way you may get this accurate is to monitor fuel usage after one week of activation and
then adjust as factors change.

Note: It takes about 1,180 BTUs to raise water to boiling temperature.
Page 49 of 60

Source: Systematic Approach To Group Survival (Page 49)

P.S. I wrote this article around 2019. I only updated the $14 hose cost today.
All other costs may need to be revised. But in the long run, all numbers will have the same relationship to each other so there is no need to revise the costs in your decision making. Happy hunting!

 

[Oddcaliber]

I have the ability to run both. Some of my Coleman is duel fuel and some are propane. I do have a small wood stove as back up. Redundancy is the key here.

 

[Jim Costa]

Jim’s Rant For The Day. Prepper Prices Doubled In Three Years?

In 2019 I did a cost analysis of cooking fuels for Preppers. One discovery was that a 90% savings could be had by using a propane tank instead of the cute 1 Lb. Propane canisters. The article I wrote about this can be seen here as I re-posted it today. Link

In posting it I decided to check on the equipment prices I used in my calculations. This is what I found:

As can be seen, the costs have doubled in just three years. Welcome to the world of inflation.

 

[TexPrep]

I have the ability to run both. Some of my Coleman is duel fuel and some are propane. I do have a small wood stove as back up. Redundancy is the key here.

I thinks it's best to use propane or liquid fuel very sparingly if things get to the point that you cant replace them.
Personally I'm going to use those for cooking only,or even better use a stick burner to cook with.
Candles work well enough to light a small area and they're cheap so you can stock up on em.
I think it's going to be like the very old days when you went to bed at dark.

 

[Kevin L]

I have a propane stove made by coleman, which I have a large propane tank with an adaptor.

 

[Mountain trapper]

We use propane for cooking, water heater, backup furnace and for heating the pump house. We keep about 1,000 gallons on hand at all times here.
Years ago I built a cabin in the mountains and used propane for lights and for refrigeration.

 

[joel]

I have two portable stove from my Scouting days.
I have two oil lamps, a kerosene lamp, 240 candles(6" X 3/4").
The candles are discounted after passover every year, you can get them for a song.
A gas grill & a charcoal grill.
No propane lanterns, but I do have battery lights & fire kits.

 

[Mountain trapper]

For cooking outside i have a 36" Blackstone propane griddle, a two burner Camp Chef stove and a 6 burner BBQ grill. And when the propane runs out, we have enough fire wood to last for generations.

 

[Buttoni]

After electricity goes down (all my indoor cooking appliances at BOL are electric), we have a 2-burner propane stove, a wood burning pot belly stove on the porch (bricks underneath and behind it), our regular charcoal grill, a 2-burner propane Camp Chef Oven and of course a huge outdoor fire pit with cast iron cooking platform/swing arm/spit whenever propane and charcoal run out. Lots of free wood on the property at our BOL. Unfortunately we don't have a wood splitter/chopper.

 

[EastenerWesterner]

Gas Grill, Camp stove with 8 1lb bottles, antique Griswold 2 burner stove. 4 20lb propane cylinders. Fittings that I can hook into the 1000 gal propane tank.
Wood burning smoker with lots of oak.

I think I got it covered

@Buttoni some one here got a manual hydraulic wood splitter inexpensively . Either @Robinjopo1 or @Amish Heart
edited Tagged Robin or Amish so whomever it was can chime in.

 

[Oddcaliber]

I've got enough Coleman stoves and lanterns to last the rest of my life.

 

[Buttoni]

@Buttoni some one here got a manual hydraulic wood splitter inexpensively . Either Robin or Amish

I just watched this video on a SunJo and read a lot of the reviews on it (Amazon) and it looks adequate. One reviewer said his 6 y.o. son uses it easily, although I wouldn't think a 6 y.o. could manage those levers, since the adult man in the video exerted a fair amount of force on them at first. Sorry, the link isn't coming in nicely for me tonight. Copy/pasted part of the page:

I've had two rotator cuff surgeries on both shoulders and my husband has had one, coupled with a torn/repaired upper arm muscle. So we're not as able to chop wood traditionally as we once were. Thanks for stirring me to look, at least. I thought they were all $400-500 dollars and didn't even go look at them. $169 isn't cheap, but in the grander scheme of things, and the possibility of re-tearing our shoulders chopping wood, probably ana acceptable cost, especially when medical care might not be available anywhere, .......and that's just not an option.

 

[EastenerWesterner]

I just watched this video on a SunJo and read a lot of the reviews on it (Amazon) and it looks adequate. One reviewer said his 6 y.o. son uses it easily, although I wouldn't think a 6 y.o. could manage those levers, since the adult man in the video exerted a fair amount of force on them at first. Sorry, the link isn't coming in nicely for me tonight. Copy/pasted part of the page:

View attachment 17058

I've had two rotator cuff surgeries on both shoulders and my husband has had one, coupled with a torn/repaired upper arm muscle. So we're not as able to chop wood traditionally as we once were. Thanks for stirring me to look, at least. I thought they were all $400-500 dollars and didn't even go look at them. $169 isn't cheap, but in the grander scheme of things, and the possibility of re-tearing our shoulders chopping wood, probably ana acceptable cost, especially when medical care might not be available anywhere, .......and that's just not an option.

I think they had gotten a HF one for $20 less. Just trying to give you an option and way to look at things.
Edit. I know not everyone has 1k for a log splitter

 

[Mountain trapper]

I just watched this video on a SunJo and read a lot of the reviews on it (Amazon) and it looks adequate. One reviewer said his 6 y.o. son uses it easily, although I wouldn't think a 6 y.o. could manage those levers, since the adult man in the video exerted a fair amount of force on them at first. Sorry, the link isn't coming in nicely for me tonight. Copy/pasted part of the page:

View attachment 17058

I've had two rotator cuff surgeries on both shoulders and my husband has had one, coupled with a torn/repaired upper arm muscle. So we're not as able to chop wood traditionally as we once were. Thanks for stirring me to look, at least. I thought they were all $400-500 dollars and didn't even go look at them. $169 isn't cheap, but in the grander scheme of things, and the possibility of re-tearing our shoulders chopping wood, probably ana acceptable cost, especially when medical care might not be available anywhere, .......and that's just not an option.

I couldn't imagine splitting 8 cord of firewood with one of these. It would be quicker to use a splitting maul and wedges.
I use a 36 ton hydraulic splitter.

 

[user 6493]

Liquid fuel vs. propane bottles for lanterns and cook stoves

I’m new to this website and just thought I’d throw in my two-cents worth. I have noticed on most prepper websites there is a general disdain for “white-gas” lanterns and cook stoves. I have been using Coleman lanterns and stoves for decades. (I guess I just leaked my age as a ole coot, LOL!) I truly believe that liquid fuel light and cook sources are a better option for prepping. Here’s my reasons why:

1) A double mantle Coleman gas lantern will provide you with about 40 hours of BRIGHT light per gallon of gas. If you need light 4 hours per day, one gallon will work for 10 days. Cost at Walmart is $7.64 for one gallon of Crown White Gas Camp Fuel. One gallon of gas for a 2 burner Coleman gas stove will provide about the same time. In order to achieve 40 hours of operation with 1 lb. propane bottles, that will require a case of 6 bottles at a cost of $45.00. Both Walmart, AND Amazon are sold out! Propane lanterns and stoves are easier to light but, much less effective when they are operated in cold temperatures. White gas is slightly different to light, not harder, just different. And, white gas is not effected by cold temperatures. One other positive note is that Coleman gas lanterns put out a LOT of heat!

2) Many people will be concerned about carbon monoxide Anything that burns is going to give off CO. The there will be no difference in CO between propane and gas lanterns and stoves. Millions of homes have gas cooking ranges that are used daily with no ill effect. You just have to use common sense. When I was kid, we had a power outage that lasted about 4 days. My Dad got out Coleman lantern and stove to use in our house. The lantern was shuffled between the living room and kitchen while cooking. Although inconvenient, we had plenty of light and hot food. No one got sick or suffered with CO due to the size of the house and limited daily use.

3) The older Coleman lanterns and stoves are a MUCH HIGHER QUALITY than what is available new. I have found good serviceable lanterns and stoves at garage sales and antique shops. I have purchased lanterns and stoves on eBay that were reasonably priced and just like new. HOWEVER, over the last two years the prices on Coleman Lanterns has skyrocketed! A run-of-the-mill Coleman 220 Lantern used to cost about $20. Now, they are selling for $75+ with some collectible ones selling for several hundred dollars. Coleman gas stoves are still pretty reasonable as most people want propane. I outfitted all three of my kids families with multiple lanterns and stoves for their prepper/camping needs. My son-in-law wanted nothing to do with a gas lanterns, He felt they were dangerous and outdated, UNTIL my daughter used hers on a desert camping trip. Now, he uses that lantern all the time and really likes it. He doesn’t have to deal with empty propane bottles and 1 gallon of Crown Fuel take up a lot less space.

4) Solar is wonderful but costly and bulky compared to gas lanterns. I use solar on some of my HAM equipment.

Mantles; yes they are delicate and have to be changed periodically. If your lantern doesn’t get banged around and is treated with the same respect you would give a kerosene lamp, your mantles should last quite a while. I have had mantles in my lanterns that were a couple years old but, had only been used 4-5 times in that period and were still good. The new Coleman mantles are pretty crappy and VERY DELICATE. The best mantles are available on eBay; PEERLESS MANTLES PART # 2C-HG w/ THORIUM FORMULA REPLACES COLEMAN #21 MANTLES. I think they come out of Canada. They have a mildly radioactive element of Thorium. That’s the reason Coleman doesn’t make them any more. The thorium mantles are stronger and brighter than any other. I recommend having a dozen or so with your stash if you use Coleman Gas Lanterns.

Fuel Longevity: I strongly recommend the Crown Camp Stove Fuel as you don’t want your stove to quit during an emergency. You can get Crown fuel at Walmart and many other places. It’s about 1/2 the price of regular Coleman fuel. It’s the SAME STUFF however. I talked about shelf life of Crown/Coleman fuel earlier. Expect a sealed gallon CAN to last at least 7 years. I have used “open” can fuel that was at least 15 years old and stored in my unheated garage and it worked fine! Just for info, Coleman states that their fuel in a sealed can has a shelf life of 7 years. From personal experience, I have used Coleman fuel from a previously opened can that was at least 15 years old and it worked the same as fresh fuel. At least I couldn’t tell any difference. Since it is nearly pure naptha, without the additives of regular gasoline, shelf like is MUCH longer. Although, not as long a propane. This should help answer questions:

https://thecampstove.com/shelf-life-coleman-camp-fuel/
P.S.
Coleman kerosene lanterns are available again. They only make these sporadically and haven't been available for quite a while. Buy from Coleman direct for $119 and free shipping. I highly recommend these lanterns. However, these burn KEROSENE, not Coleman/Crown/White Gas. They are among the brightest lanterns Coleman ever made. Coleman recently bumped their price to $129. https://www.coleman.com/lighting/lan...tionPoint=Show

Kerosene will store for years. Much longer than most any other liquid fuel. Use 1K kerosene. Kleen-Strip is a mixture of something else. For white gas substitute, use Crown Camp Fuel. It's a lower cost version of Coleman/White gas fuel. Buy from Walmart ON LINE! In store is couple bucks more. On line is cheaper. https://www.walmart.com/ip/Crown-Whi...allon/51741744

my take,,,, I prefer the white gas in normal times, but if the world goes to **** propane is king if you can store a huge supply,,,,,,,,,, white gas has a shelf life,,, propane will never go bad

 

[MaterielGeneral]

Propane does not go bad.

I have over 20 20lb tanks for running heaters and refilling 1lb tanks which run the backup cooking stoves and lanterns.