Military warns EMP attack could wipe out America, 'democracy, world order'

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Meant to say 99.9% of the survivors. :) My point is even among most preppers, we will be going back to a time of hand tools and no animals to pull our wagons or work the gardens. Heck how many preppers would survive a year after an instantaneous loss of all electricity?
depends on the definition of preppers I suppose, the survivors will have to be a mixture of prepper, survivalist and homesteader.
no animals to pull your wagons? no horses in America?
you will need animal dung to fertilise your gardens, artificial fertiliser will run out quickly. all artificial fertiliser in the UK is imported and that will stop WTSHTF.
 
depends on the definition of preppers I suppose, the survivors will have to be a mixture of prepper, survivalist and homesteader.
no animals to pull your wagons? no horses in America?
you will need animal dung to fertilise your gardens, artificial fertiliser will run out quickly. all artificial fertiliser in the UK is imported and that will stop WTSHTF.
Plenty of horses in America. I have 4 myself but they are not trained to pull a wagon. Besides that, I don't have all the specialized harnesses & gear needed for draft animals to pull a cart... much less a plow. I don't even have a wagon to pull but that would be easier solved. More importantly, the experience (know how) in how to build, maintain or use any such equipment is now almost completely lost. As I stated, all this past infrastructure is mostly gone. With time, and I would expect a lot of time, this industry & experience could be rebuilt but man, will it ever be hard. Most would have to start from scratch with no one to teach.
 
Plenty of horses in America. I have 4 myself but they are not trained to pull a wagon. Besides that, I don't have all the specialized harnesses & gear needed for draft animals to pull a cart... much less a plow. I don't even have a wagon to pull but that would be easier solved. More importantly, the experience (know how) in how to build, maintain or use any such equipment is now almost completely lost. As I stated, all this past infrastructure is mostly gone. With time, and I would expect a lot of time, this industry & experience could be rebuilt but man, will it ever be hard. Most would have to start from scratch with no one to teach.
There are still a lot of people around using horses for work or pulling a wagon or carriage. I used several teams of draft horses for logging and pulling sleds for feeding and gathering firewood. I also trained saddle horses and pulling horses for myself and others. The countryside is covered with old horse drawn equipment, some still in usable condition, and some just good for parts. Same with harnesses. Many old barns still have harnesses, collars, hames, eveners etc hanging on the walls. Some are still usable and some would just make parts. There are people around that still make harnesses, saddles and horse drawn equipment. It would certainly be a slow process going back to using horse power in a large way, but many people do live in areas where the transition wouldn't be too difficult.
I still maintain that most people, in rural areas especially, are far more resourceful and adaptable than many people give them credit for. Those that aren't very resourceful or flexible, good riddance to them.
 
There are still a lot of people around using horses for work or pulling a wagon or carriage. I used several teams of draft horses for logging and pulling sleds for feeding and gathering firewood. I also trained saddle horses and pulling horses for myself and others. The countryside is covered with old horse drawn equipment, some still in usable condition, and some just good for parts. Same with harnesses. Many old barns still have harnesses, collars, hames, eveners etc hanging on the walls. Some are still usable and some would just make parts. There are people around that still make harnesses, saddles and horse drawn equipment. It would certainly be a slow process going back to using horse power in a large way, but many people do live in areas where the transition wouldn't be too difficult.
I still maintain that most people, in rural areas especially, are far more resourceful and adaptable than many people give them credit for. Those that aren't very resourceful or flexible, good riddance to them.
Agree and why I stated most would struggle... not all. There used to be one old guy in our town that trained & used draft animals but with his passing, I don't think anyone does that anymore in my area. I understand this knowledge & equipment has not totally disappeared but it is mighty rare and after such an event, finding someone might be close to impossible. After a crisis event, how would folks hunt down this old equipment? Would it be safe to for a year or more? That is why I plan on the manual methods... at least initially.
 
if your talking about going back to a date without electricity, in the UK it'll be more like before 1750 the year the Industrial Revolution took off in Britain.
look on youtube at "tales from the green valley" this will give you an idea of how I see the survivors living day to day in a post SHTF environment. it makes interesting viewing.

Thanks for the green valley info. I am now starting to watch the series.

I do think all that have commented on the difficulties that would happen with a major grid down are correct. Almost all the city folks are goner. A large portion of the rural folks will be goners too. Those that still live in the remote areas will fair better than most. OldCoots plan is very valid. I think Articdude will do very well. Bigpaul is tough enough to make it too. For me, if the EMP does not destroy solar panels, then I will make it too. If the solar panels are gone, then my future would be in doubt. My urban or rural locations will require some form of fuel. Locating alternate fuel sources would put me at risk, hence the doubt for long term survival without solar panels.
 
For me, if the EMP does not destroy solar panels, then I will make it too. If the solar panels are gone, then my future would be in doubt. My urban or rural locations will require some form of fuel. Locating alternate fuel sources would put me at risk, hence the doubt for long term survival without solar panels.
You familiar with Dr. Bradley's new product he is currently developing? EMPStorm is whole house surge protection from EMP, solar & lightning. If I had a full solar system installed, I'd be in line to get one of these.
http://disasterpreparer.com/empstorm/

His latest tests show that solar panels in storage (not connected to the system) should survive the EMP just fine. To be real safe, some of my stored panels are in Faraday enclosures.
 
@OldCoot

First thanks for the link. My problem is I have researched and found conflicting info / theories. Some say the panels are safe if not connected, other say it won't matter unless completed shielded (Faraday cage). This debate is way above my knowledge base. I do plan to have some active and some stored, as replacement. If the stored theories are correct, then I am good to go but if the other theory is correct, then my goose maybe cooked. I cannot afford to build a Faraday cage big enough to store all the replacement panels.
 
there are plenty of horses in the UK but not many that can pull a cart or a plough, not that I shall be doing much ploughing post SHTF, I prefer donkeys myself horses can be a bit highly strung, I saw a small cart being pulled by a couple of Shetland ponies- miniture ponies- and they did it very well!
I have seen some harnesses being sold in markets so they are obviously still available.
 
If the stored theories are correct, then I am good to go but if the other theory is correct, then my goose maybe cooked. I cannot afford to build a Faraday cage big enough to store all the replacement panels.
You know, a Faraday enclosure doesn't have to be expensive. I wrap my panels using rolled cardboard and the big rolls of thick aluminum foil. I put two panels back to back and first wrap with cardboard, then several layers of foil and the cardboard again, to protect the foil. I get the rolls of foil that are 2' x 1000' and only cost $50. Can wrap a lot of stuff with that foil. I use the rolled cardboard but you could easily use old boxes.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001LNGM8E/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
https://www.webstaurantstore.com/ch...-heavy-duty-aluminum-foil-roll/12224X1HD.html

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there are plenty of horses in the UK but not many that can pull a cart or a plough, not that I shall be doing much ploughing post SHTF, I prefer donkeys myself horses can be a bit highly strung, I saw a small cart being pulled by a couple of Shetland ponies- miniture ponies- and they did it very well!
I have seen some harnesses being sold in markets so they are obviously still available.
With time and patience any horse can be trained to work under harness. Even a light saddle horse can be trained to pull a garden plow or a wagon. A lot of horse drawn equipment is easy to make just from all the junk that's laying around most farms and ranches. Years ago I built a horse drawn snow plow, a stone boat, a bob sled, harrow etc.
I think that post SHTF many people that own horses as pets will turn them lose becaue they won't able to purchase winter feed.
 
With time and patience any horse can be trained to work under harness. Even a light saddle horse can be trained to pull a garden plow or a wagon. A lot of horse drawn equipment is easy to make just from all the junk that's laying around most farms and ranches. Years ago I built a horse drawn snow plow, a stone boat, a bob sled, harrow etc.
I think that post SHTF many people that own horses as pets will turn them lose becaue they won't able to purchase winter feed.
a lot of horse and pony owners in the UK don't look after them now never mind after SHTF, you should see some of the scrappy ground I've seen horses on.
I prefer something a bit smaller than a horse for myself, I wont be riding it, maybe set up a travois or drag cart to move stuff around, like I said I wont be ploughing, my needs would be a lot simpler than that.
 
a lot of horse and pony owners in the UK don't look after them now never mind after SHTF, you should see some of the scrappy ground I've seen horses on.
I prefer something a bit smaller than a horse for myself, I wont be riding it, maybe set up a travois or drag cart to move stuff around, like I said I wont be ploughing, my needs would be a lot simpler than that.
You mentioned a donkey earlier. It sounds like for your situation a donkey would be a great fit. Donkeys are easy keepers. They can survive on marginal pasture even in winter, can pack a decent sized load and can pull a cart too. When I was about 9 or 10 I had a couple donkeys that I used for packing in to the mountains.
My wife is looking for a couple of small donkeys or burrows. They do a good job of keeping the predators aways from the cattle during calving time.
 
Alpacas are very popular as a different sort of pet and I have seen a few in this area, I think they have been used as pack animals and I think someone is using them for a business doing trekking across country, they are also good for guarding stock animals, they hate foxes and will keep them away from sheep and lambs. although they can be a bit stand offish if they don't know you.
 
You know, a Faraday enclosure doesn't have to be expensive. I wrap my panels using rolled cardboard and the big rolls of thick aluminum foil. I put two panels back to back and first wrap with cardboard, then several layers of foil and the cardboard again, to protect the foil. I get the rolls of foil that are 2' x 1000' and only cost $50. Can wrap a lot of stuff with that foil. I use the rolled cardboard but you could easily use old boxes.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001LNGM8E/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
https://www.webstaurantstore.com/ch...-heavy-duty-aluminum-foil-roll/12224X1HD.html

Thanks for the tip. I will use this method for the stored panels. In the very complex and highly technical research I viewed, the debate was nothing needed for storage and the other side required very complex Faraday cage and extreme grounding and then it still might not be enough. I like your approach, it might not work in the end but, it is an affordable method to try. I am not the U.S. Military, my budget against EMP is very limited. I like Oldcoots concept, fits into my budget and knowledge level.
 
Alpacas are very popular as a different sort of pet and I have seen a few in this area, I think they have been used as pack animals and I think someone is using them for a business doing trekking across country, they are also good for guarding stock animals, they hate foxes and will keep them away from sheep and lambs. although they can be a bit stand offish if they don't know you.

Alpaca's do make real good herd guard animals. The best ones are the ones raise with people. The ones just raised as herd (fiber) animals can be rude and aggressive. They do make good pack animals but again have to have been raised with people. The cost of Alpaca's has fluctuated wildly. They were a going trend for while and the prices sky rocketed ($10,000 or more for some). Now I think the prices have severely dropped but I can't say how low, lost interest a long time ago. The fiber of the Alpaca is the second softest natural fiber in the world. The fiber is also very light weight and about 5 to 7 times warmer than wool. The worlds softest natural fiber tittle belongs to the Vicuna and a man's coat will cost about $25,000.
 
Alpaca's do make real good herd guard animals. The best ones are the ones raise with people. The ones just raised as herd (fiber) animals can be rude and aggressive. They do make good pack animals but again have to have been raised with people. The cost of Alpaca's has fluctuated wildly. They were a going trend for while and the prices sky rocketed ($10,000 or more for some). Now I think the prices have severely dropped but I can't say how low, lost interest a long time ago. The fiber of the Alpaca is the second softest natural fiber in the world. The fiber is also very light weight and about 5 to 7 times warmer than wool. The worlds softest natural fiber tittle belongs to the Vicuna and a man's coat will cost about $25,000.
I just don't like any animal that will spit at you.
 
I just don't like any animal that will spit at you.

Yes, the herd Alpaca will behave rudely and very aggressively. I would not want a herd Alpaca near me. If the Alpaca has been raised around humans and has been treated well, they make outstanding herd guards and pack animals. All in all, except for the benefit of the fiber, I think pack mules are a better bet. If I lived in cold arctic type climates, then the Alpaca would win. Since I don't see freezing temps, the mules win.
 
there are 4 horses in a field less than 100 yards away from my house, I am keeping my eyes on them for post SHTF.

Are you saying you plan to turn Marauder? OR simply watching to make sure they are well taken care of in the event of a SHTF?
 
So I understand the danger of an EMP attack and the resulting chaos that would ensue. Lots of people die and anyone who survives has to go back to using horses and herding alpacas. But the difference between the post-EMP world and the pre-industrial world is the knowledge of how electricity works, how other technologies work, and the knowledge of modern medicine. While life expectancy would drop significantly, I don't think it would completely revert to earlier times (after the initial die-off) because people will still know, for example, that blood-letting is not a way to cure disease and that you need to wash your hands when delivering a baby. Also, while the grid will go down, there will be plenty of people with solar panels and other electric generators that still function. It's not like there will be electricity absorbing nanites like in that tv show Revolution. So people will start to rebuild because that's what people do. They may have to fight for every little thing along the way, but they will.
 
KateMTx

For me that is the big debate, will there be solar panels that survive. Some experts say yes, if not installed. Some say yes even if they are installed but properly grounded. Some say they must be stored in a Faraday Cage setup and then you get the ones that say nothing, the average person can afford, is going to save them. So it is possible we could revert to a form of 1800. We will maintain our knowledge base for a few generations but not forever. We either find a way to recover electricity or we will start to lose information. Too many libraries have started to move to electronic info and are removing the paper knowledge base. It will be scary either way.
 
I've always been told that yes solar panels are fine they can last for 3 decades and more and do, its the bits you plug into and the battery chemicals that don't last that long.
 
So I understand the danger of an EMP attack and the resulting chaos that would ensue. Lots of people die and anyone who survives has to go back to using horses and herding alpacas. But the difference between the post-EMP world and the pre-industrial world is the knowledge of how electricity works, how other technologies work, and the knowledge of modern medicine. While life expectancy would drop significantly, I don't think it would completely revert to earlier times (after the initial die-off) because people will still know, for example, that blood-letting is not a way to cure disease and that you need to wash your hands when delivering a baby. Also, while the grid will go down, there will be plenty of people with solar panels and other electric generators that still function. It's not like there will be electricity absorbing nanites like in that tv show Revolution. So people will start to rebuild because that's what people do. They may have to fight for every little thing along the way, but they will.
Here is my take on an attack using nuclear weapons. The "old school" attack with hundreds/thousands of ground burst nukes used by each side (and maybe more countries) would do extreme damage and possibly end mankind due to nuclear winter. A "new school" EMP attack, using just a few air burst specialized nukes, would cause no structural damage, would start no fires and thus no nuclear winter, and kill very few outright (wouldn't want to be in a plane at that time). Such an attack kills by loss of services, which modern folks depend upon for their lives. Not the case when I was a Minuteman Launch Officer in the early 80s. Back then, we had an option to use high altitude fuzing bursts which would have disrupted communication, but that is about all it would have done. That was back before the microchip and computers controlling every aspect of our lives. Our modern dependence on electronics is why EMP is such a deadly weapon. Today, fry the microchip and everything stops working. Since almost no food is grown locally nowadays and actually comes from all over the world, halt distribution and 90% of the population starves to death.

With a conventional nuclear exchange between superpowers, the whole world gets impacted... even if no warheads explode on your continent. Radiation and particulates in the atmosphere would spread worldwide. With an EMP attack, the impact is localized. This means parts of the world, and maybe even parts of our country, would not be impacted and thus be available to start the rebuilding process. We have armed forces and resources spread all over the globe and they too would be able to assist... given time.

My point is, rebuilding will be much easier after an EMP attack. Not so after a conventional nuclear strike. So for me, I don't prep to survive a nuclear exchange. Not the kind of world I would want to live in. But I do prep to survive after an EMP attack as the environment has not been compromised and help (rebuilding) will arrive. Just a matter of time. So my thoughts are after an EMP attack, yes we will have a great loss of life and chaos... especially in the cities. Those remaining will be sent back in time and probably further back in time than we think, depending on how well prepared. But this will be short term. As replacement electronics start coming in, basic services will start to be restored. There will be a mass migration of folks into the impacted areas to repopulate and take advantage of all the resources/structures still in place.

I picture our military stationed overseas returning within weeks & months to our coastal port cities. They will start the rebuilding process there and from there direct the import of foods, electronics, equipment & personnel needed to bring services back. Will not be quick but it will happen. We just have to prep to survive until services are brought back. Point being, as quick as an EMP attack can send us back 200 + years, the recovery can be almost as quick.
 
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@OldCoot

I tend to agree with almost all you said, I am just not sure that a EMP attack would not trigger a full blown nuclear response and then there will not be any returning troops to help out. I really do hope you are correct, I like your outcome much better than my thoughts. I just cannot visualize any country limiting the attack to just an EMP event and then we do not respond with everything we have. While I do plan to store spare solar panels as you have shown, I don't plan for a nuclear event. Wrapping the Solar panels is a good method to protect against sun (solar) EMP events.
 
@OldCoot

I tend to agree with almost all you said, I am just not sure that a EMP attack would not trigger a full blown nuclear response and then there will not be any returning troops to help out. I really do hope you are correct, I like your outcome much better than my thoughts. I just cannot visualize any country limiting the attack to just an EMP event and then we do not respond with everything we have.
My thoughts are based upon the doctrine of MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) still working. That is what has kept all nukes in check all these years. Where this doctrine does not work is for a power that could care less about the survival of their state ( think North Korea or Iran) or a group that has no country ( think ISIS). Major powers such as China and Russia, like us, have too much to lose from a nuclear exchange.
 
Oldcoot, I do agree with the MAD premises, so I don't prep for nuclear war. I also don't live near a nuclear facility. If I was ever willing to be part of a MAG, yours would be the one I would like to be near. You appear to have most of your bases covered. I will always be alone wolf, as I am a terrible judge of character. Humans tend to confuse me most of the time. Mechanical items I like, they either do their job or don't and have no hidden agenda's.
 
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