My own views on disaster

[dannerz3]

I'll try to explain it, since someone in the hello room asked.

I assume large losses in animal, plant, tree, populations.
Some of it goes strait to waste, but the amount we eat is mainly based on human populations. As the population goes up, the resources go down faster.

Technology suppression, and over-focus on military technology, I see it as one of the main things that will mean huge suffering in the future and right now. Free energy, some types of medicine, advanced water purification, that is just the tip of the ice burg that is being withheld from the public.

On a superficial level life is about this and that, and some things are more ideal for life.
But, to me, that is superficial. The biggest thing we need is goodness, and an absence of evil.

If an evil person gets a hold of a knife, he can do bad with it, even when a knife is a good tool which has existed for mankind for a long long time. Nuclear technology can be used in good or bad ways. I consider building ICBMs a bad idea, for example. Not that nuclear force is evil, but that it can be dangerous and misused. If there was less or no evil, then technology would be safer and better.

 

[Maverick]

You Make valid points.

Though much of the technology we enjoy today was strictly born from Military Technology, Emergency Room Advancement is the direct results of Battle Fields in essence (unfortunately) we must kill to advance the human race, I wouldn't call it Technology suppression on the contrary. Goodness with the absence of evil is truly a pipe dream that will never come until evil it self is defeated but us simple mortals is incapable of defeating evil. No tool is good nor bad it's the handler of these tools. One of the primary reasons the human population has expanded is the life expectancy has increased 3 fold, man itself interfered in natures natural selection process that has caused over population if you want to get to the root of it.

 

[dannerz3]

Yes. There is technology set up in store houses and it is gradually released in hope that the people will keep buying the newer versions of things. Then it breaks down, then you get a slightly better one, etc. This applies to console games to cars and trucks. Some don't believe it but I think the governments in some places also own technology derived from aliens and alien crashes. It's so advanced right now, that it would take a long time to gradually release and release and upgrade, on the public level.

It is a lot better to die for a worthy cause than it is to live a life without meaning. The military I am sure has much to do with technological development.

I'm not talking about perfection when I talk about evil and good.
I'll say some species of animals will never harm their own species.
If humans were like that, there would be a lot less evil and trouble.
Some species are cannibals though, and are at the other extreme polarity.

 

[Maverick]

I personally don't believe advancement have come from aliens. "There is technology set up in store houses and it is gradually released in hope that the people will keep buying the newer versions of things" I don't believe that to be the case, it takes 3 to 5 years to go from R&D to the homes, in the process of manufacturing, technology has already advanced 2 to 3 years since R&D. Once R&D is completed they are already looking to build upon what was learned and apply that to the next generation, all new technology released is already dated. "If humans were like that, there would be a lot less evil and trouble" humans will never be like that thus I would never entertain that idea nor worry about.

 

[lonewolf]

my personal philosophy is that the human race has come so far in terms of technology that WHEN SHTF we have much further to fall. civilisations have crashed in the past , most notably the Romans but no human being has come so far as the current generation. post SHTF lifestyle will most likely be something more akin(at least in the UK) to something more related to the 17thCentury but only if its a fast collapse, a slow collapse will probably put us back into the Middle Ages.

 

[Gazrok]

I'm thinking it would be more like the late 1800's in general, but with some pockets more advanced, and some pockets less advanced.

 

[lonewolf]

depends on the die off and the skill level of the survivors, also whether its a slow or fast collapse. if its bad enough we could go back to the stone age!!

 

[Silent Earth]

I reckon 99.9% of the UK would be screwed as would large parts of the US because we have lost so many of the skills that not only made us great, but also made us independent. Perhaps the more self reliant parts of the US like the NW Tri states, Colorado etc still retain many skills, as will many individual Brits and Americans, but huge swaiths of both societies would be royally screwed.

 

[lonewolf]

99.9% of the population will be screwed as we go back to a time prior to the industrial revolution, what good will IT skills be without the power grid?? most people have lost any connection to nature or farming, as the furthest they go to getting their food is the supermarket, most people-not just kids- have no idea how their food is produced, in some cases they don't even know which animal it comes from, and even worse they don't care.

 

[Brent S]

I'm thinking it would be more like the late 1800's in general, but with some pockets more advanced, and some pockets less advanced.

I agree, we will still have most of the knowledge we have today, even without electricity.

 

[Brent S]

99.9% of the population will be screwed as we go back to a time prior to the industrial revolution, what good will IT skills be without the power grid?? most people have lost any connection to nature or farming, as the furthest they go to getting their food is the supermarket, most people-not just kids- have no idea how their food is produced, in some cases they don't even know which animal it comes from, and even worse they don't care.

It will be a rough transistion for most. I never grew anything in my life until fairly recently. I am getting better now and actually producing things to eat finally, but it has taken about five years of practice, trial and error, and getting the soil built up. I feel for anyone who has to learn this stuff while their family is starving.

 

[Silent Earth]

This thread is proof if it were needed of the massive benefits to preppers and survivalists of if they get the chance to attend the 1800s Rendezvous they often have in Colorado where they display and teach the essential skills that supported the settlers and builders of America. I've been to two in the 1990s and they were great sources of information that WILL be needed again.

 

[lonewolf]

many of the county Smallholder Societies hold courses on various aspects of animal husbandry and the like. also check out the "living camps" of the reinactment societies like "Sealed Knot" etc.

 

[Silent Earth]

I remember making myself look a prat at the RV in 94, We had spent some hours playing on the ranges , I fell in love with the Marlin 9mm Camp Carbine and proudly declared " This carbine is the only gun I would need if I lived here" (Colorado) , JL then drove me a short distance and introduced me to a small herd of American Bison.................................. I felt very sill and utterly under equipped when I saw the bull !!!!!, Terrifying truly terrifying even scarier than a Jackalope .

Still Bison, Coyotes, Wolves, Cougars, Grizzlies etc are nothing compared to the............. English Were Rabbit

 

[jontte]

the English Were Rabbit is a dangerous creature...but it's strange that people eat meat but they don't know what animal they are eating, I've over heard in the store a kid saying to his mum,well milk comes from this store in those jugs..from a cow?? no,impossible..

 

[lonewolf]

yes, and not just in Finland in England too. food to them comes from the supermarket not from a farm.

 

[Maverick]

yes, and not just in Finland in England too. food to them comes from the supermarket not from a farm.

On a news program several years ago, a reporter ask people on the streets and ask teachers and students of new york and chicago where meat milk and chocolate milk comes from, they had no clue but some of the responses was, lets just say, not very encouraging.... "meat comes from the store" "you mean our store kills animals?" "we eating a real animals?" "white milk comes from a white cow and chocolate milk comes from a brown cow"

It ain't just Finland and England though I suspect it's only the big city folks their as it is here.

 

[lonewolf]

I was at a small country fair in the spring, in a pen was a very young calf, guy next to me said "ah, a goat"!! its all I could do to stop laughing, ok it WAS lying down but really!!!

 

[jontte]

that's why it's so important that we teach our kids how the food comes to the table and from where, I'm very glad I had the opportunity to go to a small farm here in town where they keep horses,cows,goats,pigs and chickens so my kids could see the animals,how they live etc..and they provide town kids the chance to go there and take care of them..

 

[Gazrok]

Brent S and I are prime examples. Both of us started learning a lot of these old skills fairly recently. And that's just from desire. If it were NECESSARY, I'd apply a lot more effort, and become more proficient, no doubt. As he said, the knowledge is still there, so wouldn't be a need to reinvent the wheel, just fix it enough to make it work. We'd basically be back where we were before the start of the grid. (as pretty much ANY SHTF scenario means bye bye grid).

 

[jontte]

but to return to disaster; drugs and drugdealers are a bigger threat than some people wanna admit, addicts are a bigger problem also.. not only are the addicts a economic threat they spread disease and misery as do the dealers, this is something that will undermine every society..

in my perfect world there wouldn't be any drugdealers,they would be 6 feet under..
and when I say this line at work; oh you are a horrible person to think like that

 

[lonewolf]

in any SHTF scenario ANY addict-dosent matter whether its drugs, alcohol, tobacco, caffeine- will not last long once the supply has dried up, and it WILL dry up without new supplies being shipped in from abroad.

 

[jontte]

tobacco I can grow here, for coffee I have a subsitute, I'll manage, and alcohol they have been doing for centuries here also..

 

[Maverick]

but to return to disaster; drugs and drugdealers are a bigger threat than some people wanna admit, addicts are a bigger problem also.. not only are the addicts a economic threat they spread disease and misery as do the dealers, this is something that will undermine every society..

in my perfect world there wouldn't be any drugdealers,they would be 6 feet under..
and when I say this line at work; oh you are a horrible person to think like that

Much of the Law Enforcement capital and resources is directed at the wrong people, we shouldn't be diverting so much resources towards the users but should be directed towards manufacturing and distribution utilizing military full scale response abroad unfortunately much manufacturing and distribution is state protected and we surely don't want to step on our friends toes even though we know it involves and sanctioned by the state, noriega and panama to name one of many, we knew what he was doing long long before and turned a blind eye (diplomatic hospitality) like we do so often (we are doing it again in afghanistan as we did with panama) but in the end noriega didn't want to play by our rules the rest is history. In central and south America we (our government) knows damn good whats going on, yes we make a show of it. We worked with the DEA so often for the most part we known it was a sham, we all knew it down there, I can fill volumes of the crap that's gone on in the lower Americas. Our governments in the West have helped fuel the spread of drugs through the lack of back-bone, it's just not diplomatic to expose and destroy our so called friends!

 

[jontte]

can truly understand that Maverick,all too often we know what the solution is...but as they are our friends,well let's pretend we didn't see anything shall we?
our westerns governments don't have the back-bone to do what's neccesary,they are to concerned about their image

as I spent a great long weekend with my kids at their place,but my stomach turned once again inside out when I came back..the sight of all those addicts and dealers at the train station, I'm so tired of the sight...

 

[lonewolf]

you can forget about your "friends" in a disaster.

 

[Gazrok]

Lets face it, we've been in the Opium business since at least 'Nam, if not earlier. Mostly, it isn't the drug or substance in general that is the problem, but folks using them for reasons other than intended, or to the point of being controlled by them. Alcohol, for example, causes more societal harm than all other drugs combined, and yet it is perfectly legal. Again, not the substance, but those abusing it.

 

[Maverick]

in a post-shtf we are going to see nation boundaries change again, we are going to see the middle east re-establish itself similar to the persian empire once the west pulls out to return home, the middle east is not dependent on the the grid as the west is and no doubt countries will take advantage of this north korea as an example will take advantage, this time we have sympathizers in western countries from the middle east wanting to invoke some form of religious rule not to mention a number of these countries have nuclear weapons now, not catapults and wooden ships, no, we are going to see a new dominance take shape and the west is ripe for the taken amongst the chaos in a post-shtf. If we think the religious ideology out of the middle east is idly going to do nothing then a good number of people in the west are in for a rude awaking. If people think the world is going to stand still waiting for the west to sort things out in a post-shtf the people are kidding themselves, do we really think resource hungry china is going to set still? A year in a post-shtf we are going to start seeing third world countries start to make a move if not sooner. People of the west are weak that lacks common ideology and perseverance that would hold us together, we rely way to much on technology whereas the people of third world countries do not, they will be willing to nuke and walk 1000s of miles to conquer for the sake of ideology unlike the west, the west will fall apart wondering where the government has gone.

 

[Maverick]

Lets face it, we've been in the Opium business since at least 'Nam, if not earlier. Mostly, it isn't the drug or substance in general that is the problem, but folks using them for reasons other than intended, or to the point of being controlled by them. Alcohol, for example, causes more societal harm than all other drugs combined, and yet it is perfectly legal. Again, not the substance, but those abusing it.

The users don't put drugs on the street, the demand does and the demand is both the government and the street, the drug trade keeps friendly governments in power and supplies funds to covert operations limiting government oversight committees from meddling in or disclosing operations, we keep a blind eye as long as they keep our adversaries at bay be it the communist or other hostile nations to the west in other words we won't say or do anything significant (just throw a couple of big bust a year our way for show and tell back home) as long you cover our flank.

Killing the ants on the surface does nothing (except makes us feel good) to stop the nest from expanding, for every ant we kill on the surface 10 more will take its place, law enforcement going after the users does little to curve drug use except makes us feel good, it's all superficial really.

 

[jontte]

how utterly depressing reading but so damn true