my perpetual motion idea(s)

[Krime]

I figured id put it here in the VIP section.
If this is ever used for profit by anyone on here (only VIP ppl can view it) i require recognition and i wouldlike at least $100k for my family. Remember this post is dated.

This will be hard to write without pictures so use your imagination a bit.

Start with a battery(s) that run a sub pump, the pump pumps water up to a point (weights and hights and pressures still need to be determined, as i have not yet built it, i have not tested any variables) the water is then released onto (im going to say the easier to explain version) fans which turn by the water pressure and fall back to the pool where the sub pump is.
The fans then turn small motors (any dc motor also works as an electric generator/alternator)(it has to be small to generate enough revolutions per minute, an average car altenator will not work as it takes average 5k rpm to generate useable electricity which cannot be done here i dont think). The motors/altenators then produce electricity sent to a current regulator which will charge the battery(s) running the pump, anything left over is free electricity.
In theory, as this all is anyway, if you figure out a way to make the water pressure higher, and bigger motors/altenators, the more electricity will be generated.
Put this system inna lake and you dont have to worry about replacing evaporated water.

Any thoughts?

 

[Clyde]

I figured id put it here in the VIP section.
If this is ever used for profit by anyone on here (only VIP ppl can view it) i require recognition and i wouldlike at least $100k for my family. Remember this post is dated.

This will be hard to write without pictures so use your imagination a bit.

Start with a battery(s) that run a sub pump, the pump pumps water up to a point (weights and hights and pressures still need to be determined, as i have not yet built it, i have not tested any variables) the water is then released onto (im going to say the easier to explain version) fans which turn by the water pressure and fall back to the pool where the sub pump is.
The fans then turn small motors (any dc motor also works as an electric generator/alternator)(it has to be small to generate enough revolutions per minute, an average car altenator will not work as it takes average 5k rpm to generate useable electricity which cannot be done here i dont think). The motors/altenators then produce electricity sent to a current regulator which will charge the battery(s) running the pump, anything left over is free electricity.
In theory, as this all is anyway, if you figure out a way to make the water pressure higher, and bigger motors/altenators, the more electricity will be generated.
Put this system inna lake and you dont have to worry about replacing evaporated water.

Any thoughts?

Sounds very doable, and I am intrigued! I would like to see this in action. Have you made any progress in making this since you posted this?

 

[ARMY127]

It is a possibility, but definitely would need to design and figure out a ton of variables to get it to work. Battery size, pump size, water column height, fan blade angle for optimum revolutions. I think it could work but not sure it would generate enough electricity for the effort needed to build and maintain the system. I could be wrong though. Would be a fun thing to build up and try out though. Krime have you made any progress on this, drawings or anything? I may be able to help with the pump and battery back up system. My father was a plumber for 35 years and taught me a ton. I worked in the field before the Army.

 

[Kriptic]

I am a 3d designer/drafter working for Weatherford Intl.

The specific facility I work for in Magnolia, TX designs and builds.....PUMPS. It takes more then a small amount of energy to get pumps going. Especially when you get into the 2200-3000hp Mud pumps. I am not an engineer and I could ask one of engineers next door, but I seriously doubt the energy generated from running water over fans (turbines) would result in anywhere close to the energy you used to power the pumps.

Just my non-mechanical engineer perspective.

 

[ARMY127]

I am a 3d designer/drafter working for Weatherford Intl.

The specific facility I work for in Magnolia, TX designs and builds.....PUMPS. It takes more then a small amount of energy to get pumps going. Especially when you get into the 2200-3000hp Mud pumps. I am not an engineer and I could ask one of engineers next door, but I seriously doubt the energy generated from running water over fans (turbines) would result in anywhere close to the energy you used to power the pumps.

Just my non-mechanical engineer perspective.

Kriptic (I like the handle by the way, how long were you in Army Intelligence)? I think you have Krime wrong he is trying to use a house sump pump with a battery back up (or battery pack) which they come with to pump water up and then down across fan blades or something of the like and use those to keep the batteries charged. I am not sure it will work but not looking to move large scale equipment like you are talking about. I think he means a 1/2 or 3/4 HP sump pump. I definitely agree that if you were trying to make it operate a huge pump like you are talking about it would never work.

 

[Kriptic]

Kriptic (I like the handle by the way, how long were you in Army Intelligence)? I think you have Krime wrong he is trying to use a house sump pump with a battery back up (or battery pack) which they come with to pump water up and then down across fan blades or something of the like and use those to keep the batteries charged. I am not sure it will work but not looking to move large scale equipment like you are talking about. I think he means a 1/2 or 3/4 HP sump pump. I definitely agree that if you were trying to make it operate a huge pump like you are talking about it would never work.

I was a 98c for just over 4 years from 09/88 to 12/92.

After reading it again, you are probably right. I do think he was referring to a much smaller pump then I initially thought. I'm not sure that changes the end result however, it just simply scales it down. But then again, I have never done the experiment myself so this is all just my opinion.

 

[ARMY127]

I am not sure it would work either, but could be fun to try and build it to find out if its feasible. I was a 15T ( UH-60 Helicopter repairer and Crew Chief/Gunner) from 12/94-11/2012. I had a break in service though so only really in for 14 years and change. I was injured in Iraq during my second tour October 2009.

 

[Kriptic]

I am not sure it would work either, but could be fun to try and build it to find out if its feasible. I was a 15T ( UH-60 Helicopter repairer and Crew Chief/Gunner) from 12/94-11/2012. I had a break in service though so only really in for 14 years and change. I was injured in Iraq during my second tour October 2009.

It would for sure be a blast to build it and try it out.

Oh...thanks for your service brother.

 

[ARMY127]

Thanks you too, and if I can figure out this get together thing maybe we could try and do it sometime

 

[Krime]

ive drawn about 3 or 4 different designs, mostly the fans that the water would turn.the faster they turn the more rpm youll get from the genorators.
no im not talking about a huge pump, the only way i can see a huge pump working is to up scale the rest of it by the same percentage.
ive been a plumber since i was 17, as well as exp in other construction fields including mechanics and welding.
idk i was thinken likea swamp cooler water pump or maybe a pool pump, or even one of those small sub pumps.

 

[ARMY127]

My dad owned his own plumbing company for 36 years amid started learning when I was 11 so I know what you mean. A swamp cooler pump or sump pump would be good I think and really if we ever set up something where we all get together it would be fun to try and build it or you can bring drawing sorta proto type if you get that far.

 

[Krime]

maybe i could post a pic of a drawing or something.
remember though that nowhere did i state im a good artist rofl

 

[ARMY127]

No worries I cant even draw a stick figure without a computer program.

 

[Krime]

ive got another idea too.
the Tesla coil can take small amounts of electricity and turn it to powerful amounts of electricity, using that larger power of electricity it could be possible to power a generator to produce the small power that powers the coil, you would not only sustain power for the generator, but you would possably have unused power from the same source that could be used elsewhere.

 

[Clyde]

No worries I cant even draw a stick figure without a computer program.

Hell, I can't draw a stick figure with a computer program!

 

[ARMY127]

Not sure about the Tesla Coil idea it's not really designed for that but hey you never know and I would try it, just because I will try just about anything.

 

[Krime]

the tesla coil was designed to be a huge tower, that by a small amount of electricity to it, it would power every electrical object up to a 1 mile radias.
Tesla actually built alot of the tower but his funder ended the project.

 

[ARMY127]

I recall that and forget the actual location of the tower but Tesla was also never able to prove his theory either. Still would be fun to test.

 

[Clyde]

you all lost me..... sigh....

 

[Krime]

I recall that and forget the actual location of the tower but Tesla was also never able to prove his theory either. Still would be fun to test.

hu?
the coil was/is proven to work. wven because of its patent, the patent/discovery of radio was later given to Tesla over Marcconi.

 

[ARMY127]

I know the coil itself works but he was never able to send electricity through the air to give power to homes and other things, and yes Tesla did invent the radio. I think Tesla Coils are awesome and can be very powerful too. He also invented alternating current.

 

[Bravery]

I am a 3d designer/drafter working for Weatherford Intl.

The specific facility I work for in Magnolia, TX designs and builds.....PUMPS. It takes more then a small amount of energy to get pumps going. Especially when you get into the 2200-3000hp Mud pumps. I am not an engineer and I could ask one of engineers next door, but I seriously doubt the energy generated from running water over fans (turbines) would result in anywhere close to the energy you used to power the pumps.

Just my non-mechanical engineer perspective.

I am NOT a scientist, nor an engineer, but according to the laws of Thermodynamics (specifically the Second law) ... this will not work. Now you can use a flowing stream... that way you won't have to use energy to power the pumps to move the water.

I am probably not understanding something. So please correct me if I am misunderstanding something.

 

[ARMY127]

Not sure either but we may try to figure all this out if we ever get together in one place sometime to exchange ideas etc.

 

[Krime]

I know the coil itself works but he was never able to send electricity through the air to give power to homes and other things, and yes Tesla did invent the radio. I think Tesla Coils are awesome and can be very powerful too. He also invented alternating current.

No, but only because the funding was cut on his tower wich was a supersized version of the coil.
You can watch some youtube versions of smaller 6' versions of the coil with will power lightbulbs etc without plugging them into anything.
According to Tesla, it would have powered houses up to a few miles away w/o the use or need of cords.

 

[Krime]

I am NOT a scientist, nor an engineer, but according to the laws of Thermodynamics (specifically the Second law) ... this will not work. Now you can use a flowing stream... that way you won't have to use energy to power the pumps to move the water.

I am probably not understanding something. So please correct me if I am misunderstanding something.

If flowing water could generate, would it be enough power generated to run a pump that makes the water flow.....

 

[bill harrell]

No

 

[bill harrell]

When you use one form of energy to do work.some of the energy is transformed to other types of energy such as heat, light, radiation, electrical and so on.. take a nuke, part of the kinetic energy is released as light, part as heat , part as radiation, part as electrical energy and so on and so forth. But to fuse the atoms back together will always take more energy than was created in the fission. Our sun is a near perfect design of a perpetual motion machine.but it is steadily dying due to light escaping. To find the secrets of perpetual motion one will have to eliminate all losses of energy to other forms. Your design will lose energy to heat . I can't say how much , it would depend on friction and bottlenecks and irregularities in the water loop.. even small bubbles cause friction. Try this ....take a pump like you thinking with a closed loop water system. Place it in a climate controlled environment. Turn it on and watch the water temp. rise. As the water heats up , it dissapates heat into the air. But my point being if the water warms any at all your loosing energy. It was in this case converted to heatdue to friction.
.

 

[Clyde]

When you use one form of energy to do work.some of the energy is transformed to other types of energy such as heat, light, radiation, electrical and so on.. take a nuke, part of the kinetic energy is released as light, part as heat , part as radiation, part as electrical energy and so on and so forth. But to fuse the atoms back together will always take more energy than was created in the fission. Our sun is a near perfect design of a perpetual motion machine.but it is steadily dying due to light escaping. To find the secrets of perpetual motion one will have to eliminate all losses of energy to other forms. Your design will lose energy to heat . I can't say how much , it would depend on friction and bottlenecks and irregularities in the water loop.. even small bubbles cause friction. Try this ....take a pump like you thinking with a closed loop water system. Place it in a climate controlled environment. Turn it on and watch the water temp. rise. As the water heats up , it dissapates heat into the air. But my point being if the water warms any at all your loosing energy. It was in this case converted to heatdue to friction.
.

I know where I worked we used a couple of closed loop water systems for cooling. It could be a pain at times insuring the temps didn't get too high.

 

[jimLE]

in my case if i went with some thing like that.my thought is a water wheel.the kind that is/was used in mills where they ground up corn into corn meal.set it up where the flow of water in the creek.river will work with the electric generator/alternator and a water pump where the line that draws the water in comes from the down stream side to take full advantage of the situation..more water.faster the wheel turns,and that means more electric.

 

[bill harrell]

Point being ...you have to lift the water up. If it takes 1 HP to lift a gallon of water 10 ft high , it will pro ably only make 1/2 horsepower in return to power the pump to lift it. Water wheels work basically on the principle that God has already done the heavy lifting , you are just making use of the energy passing by you.