No Knock Warrant

[havasu]

There is also a big push to completely eliminate vehicle pursuits, because in So Cal, they are hurting innocent drivers. Are you for eliminating these as well?

I too enjoy the freedom/protection of the 4th Amendment, but those exigent circumstances set forth by the SCOTUS are there for a reason.

 

[VThillman]

There is also a big push to completely eliminate vehicle pursuits, because in So Cal, they are hurting innocent drivers. Are you for eliminating these as well?

I too enjoy the freedom/protection of the 4th Amendment, but those exigent circumstances set forth by the SCOTUS are there for a reason.

When you jump to 'vehicle pursuits' you are blowing smoke. And you must be well aware that the SCOTUS is not the Constitution; case law ain't the Constitution, though SCOTUS seems to think so.

 

[aDave]

Thanks Buzz @BuzzinSATX . Great points made. I really do think we both are on common ground for the most part, but we're not going to be lock-step on the matter. I'll keep this short and sweet, as I think we could go on and on with the topic.

I absolutely agree that there should be a pretty high bar for these. If they're being overused/abused, that needs to be curtailed. I don't believe they should be completely eliminated. That's about it.

Thanks for the exchange.

Dave

 

[BuzzinSATX]

Sorry guys but I hear this same argument from liberal web sites.

Knock and "no-knock" search warrants have no more than a 2 second delay so you are saying we should eliminate all search warrants
t

No.

I'm saying citizens have rights to unreasonable search and seizure. If the cops show up at my home to serve a warrant and I’m home, they should knock and give me a reasonable time to answer the door (30 seconds, maybe more at zero-dark thirty). Two seconds???? I cannot answer my house phone in 2 seconds. So are you saying after 2 seconds, they are caving in my front door and sending in tear gas and stun grenades like we live in some communist dictatorship? And you see nothing wrong with this?

And you think I’m a liberal for thinking this way?

Politically/philosophically, I consider myself an Independent/Libertarian who votes for the most conservative candidate I believe can win an election. I am a “Single Issue” voter...I want the candidate who most defends the Constitution....that is rarely the Liberal candidate.

And for the record, I detested the fact our military folks went door-door kicking in and barging into the homes of folks in the Middle East, but they were war zones...unfortunately and regrettably, bad stuff happens there. But I dang sure don’t want that happening here in the US.

Again, just my opinions, which matter little to none, as spouted on an Internet forum.

 

[havasu]

I'm just carrying on this conversation in the interest of a good dialog. Neither you, me, or the entire forum will not make a difference as to the laws of the land, or current case law, so we are just arm chair quarterbacking. The vehicle pursuits in Los Angeles have become ridiculous as of late. The public seems to always fault with the cops, but nothing bad is ever said about the fleeing suspect. This is where i have a problem, and oh, the liberal judges who slap the criminals hands so they can be back out tomorrow doing the same damn thing.

 

[Reggaemylitis]

Some very good discussion going on here with valid points on both sides. I cherish my liberty and freedom yet I wouldn't want to see police officers - who are just doing their job - put at unnecessary risk. A lot to think about.

There are definitely some strong feelings here. I appreciate that you guys can have this discussion in a collegial and respectful manner!

 

[VThillman]

I'm just carrying on this conversation in the interest of a good dialog. Neither you, me, or the entire forum will not make a difference as to the laws of the land, or current case law, so we are just arm chair quarterbacking. The vehicle pursuits in Los Angeles have become ridiculous as of late. The public seems to always fault with the cops, but nothing bad is ever said about the fleeing suspect. This is where i have a problem, and oh, the liberal judges who slap the criminals hands so they can be back out tomorrow doing the same damn thing.

You got it, Havasu, that's all we can do is expound with our keyboards. Vermont has her share of 'liberal' judges too, and more jailbirds than we have places to put them - a lot of them heroin related nowadays. The youngsters of my extended family are living in a Vermont much different from the one that existed 'back in my day'. It needs fixin'; I hope it gets done.

 

[havasu]

Los Angeles County just reported that we have exceeded 100,000 homeless (not homeless, just lazy 'I'll do what I want' type of folks.) The study also said that 10% of these homeless are parolees with severe drug habits. Basically what that boils down to is the fact that we have 10,000 new burglars in LA County who are breaking into cars and houses to support their habits. We can only think of the liberal voters who pushed Proposition 47 and allowed it to pass.This is a 30% rise in just the last 6 months!

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-homeless-count-20170530-story.html

https://ballotpedia.org/California_...d_Penalties_for_Some_Crimes_Initiative_(2014)

 

[bargeahead]

I had the "opportunity" to get some inside data on the subject. My ex biz partner was on the Urbana/U of I/Champaign County Metro Unit ( SWAT ). As a best friend I worried about his safety, specially on a "No Knock".
Of course I only heard about it after the fact. They HAD to execute a "No Knock" on occasion due to violent history of the felons, alarm systems, vicious dogs, etc. One of his main concerns was having been given the correct address! I can understand and approve of "No Knock" if the situation warrants and THE GOOD GUYS HAVE THE RIGHT HOUSE and with COMPLETE intel. No LEO wants to be involved in an incident resulting in harm to an innocent homeowner/family. Repeat last sentence !

 

[havasu]

Our judges demand pictures of the front door, aerial pics, and how we confirmed this was the correct house.

 

[CrackbottomLouis]

Our judges demand pictures of the front door, aerial pics, and how we confirmed this was the correct house.

Again, if that were true everywhere there wouldnt be examples of children getting burned by flashbangs and cops executing no knock warrants at the wrong address. Those examples do exist however, so your statement is not true. The proof is in the pudding. Your comparison to a car chase is apples and oranges. A public road is not the same as the sanctity of my private property.

 

[Supervisor42]

Again, if that were true everywhere there wouldnt be examples of children getting burned by flashbangs and cops executing no knock warrants at the wrong address.

I can see both sides.
The cops would prefer all warrants be no-knock because they like the element of surprise... just like the Gestapo.
On the other hand, if there's a house full of terrorist brewing anthrax over a sink with a flush valve or building bombs, a no-knock would be essential.
We just need judges to use common sense deciding when it's needed.
A house full of people selling crystal-meth; no.