Nuke Threat...worth it to move to another country?

[Tacitus]

Guy on radio this morning said that the US will have to fight China for Taiwan within the next 5 years.

I figure that raises a substantial nuclear exchange threat.

I'm prepped for pretty much everything (to various degrees) except perhaps a city-busting nuclear war.

So, I asked the wife today, over a glass of wine, on the deck overlooking the woods, on a beautiful day: "Do you want to preserve the family gene pool by moving south of the equator, to a non-aligned country?...like Chile?"

I'm thinking the scenery there is nice, they have nice wines (that's for me), a fairly stable government (all things considered), and it is out of the expected fallout circulation for an exchange between northern hemisphere nuclear powers...and wouldn't be directly targeted...a potential risk with western-aligned Australia or even New Zealand. Although, New Zealand still might not be a bad option.

She said, "No."

I said, "OK, as long as it is a conscious choice, I can live with that decision. I just didn't want to not consider an option, and wish I'd considered it. We stay in the US, and we accept the lot given to us."

So, there you go.

And, I suppose, after all, the risk might never be realized.

 

[Cascadian]

I thought New Zealand was right there with Australia in regards to lock downs and such?

 

[dademoss]

I thought New Zealand was right there with Australia in regards to lock downs and such?

They may have been even worse, even sooner. Didn't pay much attention really, but they are a hard no on my relocation list.

Wikipedia is not all that reliable, but check the gun laws :Gun law in New Zealand - Wikipedia

 

[The Lazy L]

I was asked why we live in the state of <censored>. I said it was simple, wife doesn't want to move.

 

[Spikedriver]

I have serious doubts that any nukes will ever get used, outside of Islamic factions trying to obtain nukes and trying to hit Israel. There's just too much at stake for everyone else. Even the Muslims hold Jerusalem to be sacred so they wouldn't want to set of nukes anywhere near it.

If it happens, it happens. If there's a major event, I expect very few of us will have anything to worry about any more...

 

[backlash]

A nuke strike is one of those things I don't worry about. Using a nuke is a sure way to have the rest of the world against you.
America nuked Japan twice and that was the only time any country nuked another country. I just don't think it will ever happen again.
Even if I did think it might I am not moving to another country for any reason.

 

[Supervisor42]

A nuke strike is one of those things I don't worry about. Using a nuke is a sure way to have the rest of the world against you.
America nuked Japan twice and that was the only time any country nuked another country. I just don't think it will ever happen again.
Even if I did think it might I am not moving to another country for any reason.

Exactly. Not necessary. All you need to do is not live near a major city and have a radiation detector. Even if there was a major exchange, after the enemy had shot it's wad, most of the dangerous radiation from fallout would be gone in a couple weeks.
Most Americans have no idea how well-defended the airspace over our country is.
The vast majority of anything inbound would be shot down long before it could detonate.
The 'safe' country you relocated to would likely have very little air defense, witness Ukraine.

 

[Neb]

Exactly. Not necessary. All you need to do is not live near a major city and have a radiation detector. Even if there was a major exchange, after the enemy had shot it's wad, most of the dangerous radiation from fallout would be gone in a couple weeks.
Most Americans have no idea how well-defended the airspace over our country is.
The vast majority of anything inbound would be shot down long before it could detonate.
The 'safe' country you relocated to would likely have very little air defense, witness Ukraine.

Huh?

The antibalistic missile treaty eliminated balistic missile derence.

What did I miss?

Ben

PS my father was a bomarc missile tech.

 

[Tacitus]

The reason I've never wanted to move elsewhere: The United States has the best gun laws.

I figure as much as we complain about bad stuff happening in the US, it can't ever get worse than it can get in other countries. The worst case scenario in the US is that the people defend themselves. In other countries, the people don't have that option to fall back on, so things can get much worse for them.

 

[Supervisor42]

Huh?

The antibalistic missile treaty eliminated balistic missile derence.

What did I miss?

Ben

PS my father was a bomarc missile tech.

It's ok. Nothing to see here.
The missile treaty was a 1-for-1 reduction in the number of outbound nuke missiles hiding in silos by the countries that signed.
Guess why something called 'The United States Space Force' was created by somebody.
Hint: ...And it ain't to protect Starlink satellites.

The Space Corps proposal gained new life when, at a June 2018 meeting of the National Space Council, President Donald Trump directed the Department of Defense to begin the necessary processes to establish the U.S. Space Force as a branch of the Armed Forces. On 19 February 2019, Space Policy Directive 4 was signed, initially calling for the placement of the U.S. Space Force within the Department of the Air Force, later creating and transferring the service to the Department of the Space Force. Legislative provisions for the Space Force were included in the 2020 National Defense Authorization Act, which was signed into law on 20 December 2019. The Space Force was established as the sixth armed service branch, with Air Force general John "Jay" Raymond, the commander of Air Force Space Command and U.S. Space Command, becoming the first chief of space operations.

 

[Caribou]

I'm not moving anywhere without a 2A.

 

[Haertig]

So, China nukes the US, the US nukes China. Just where on the entire planet will be a good place to live after that? You may escape the initial radiation, but what about your food, steel, electronics, repair parts for your infrastructure ... the list goes on. You may eek out a miserable and starving life for a few months longer if you're in some other country, but it's not going to be Utopia.

 

[Neb]

It's ok. Nothing to see here.
The missile treaty was a 1-for-1 reduction in the number of outbound nuke missiles hiding in silos by the countries that signed.
Guess why something called 'The United States Space Force' was created by somebody.
Hint: ...And it ain't to protect Starlink satellites.

Are you talking about SALT I an d Ii?

Anti balistic missle treaty

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-...y,ballistic missile-delivered nuclear weapons.

Limited the number of missile to shoot down ballistic missiles.

Ben

 

[Supervisor42]

Are you talking about SALT I an d Ii?

Anti balistic missle treaty

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-...y,ballistic missile-delivered nuclear weapons.

Limited the number of missile to shoot down ballistic missiles.

Ben

Ah, you are going back a long time ago with the ABMT:

Signed in 1972, it was in force for the next 30 years. In 1997, five years after the dissolution of the Soviet Union, four former Soviet republics agreed with the United States to succeed the USSR's role in the treaty. In June 2002 the United States withdrew from the treaty, leading to its termination.

Fast forward to today...
Nobody even finds it strange that EVERY ONE of N. Korea's long-range missiles that make it into space, mysteriously suffers a "technical problem"?
Yep, bad programming, that's it.

However, you are correct. The use of ground-based missile launches to hopefully protect against incoming nuke missiles is long gone.
(But there are still plenty that will stop any bomber that tries to invade our 'no-fly zone' )

 

[Neb]

Ah, you are going back a long time ago with the ABMT:

Fast forward to today...
Nobody even finds it strange that EVERY ONE of N. Korea's long-range missiles that make it into space, mysteriously suffers a "technical problem"?
Yep, bad programming, that's it.

However, you are correct. The use of ground-based missile launches to hopefully protect against incoming nuke missiles is long gone.
(But there are still plenty that will stop any bomber that tries to invade our 'no-fly zone' )

That is a horse of a different color.

Ben

 

[Bacpacker]

Thus the importance of our boomers. Even if they could shoot down our land based missles and our bombers. the boomers still have more than enough to wipe out the world

 

[Supervisor42]

That is a horse of a different color.

Ben

Yes, but that is the 'new age' we are in.
They found out long ago that launching a 2,000 pound anti-missile-missile from the ground was not a great way to try to stop an inbound ICBM that was coming in from space.
They proved that even a single laser hole thru the aerodynamically-perfect nosecone of one would cause it to start to tumble and burn up on reentry.
...But it had to be shot while it was still in space.
This goes all the way back to SDI.
Today they only have to tell 'em which ones the 'friendlys' are, the machines do the rest.
No we are not defenseless, and do not have to live in fear of nuke ICBMs raining down on us.

 

[Tacitus]

So, China nukes the US, the US nukes China. Just where on the entire planet will be a good place to live after that? You may escape the initial radiation, but what about your food, steel, electronics, repair parts for your infrastructure ... the list goes on. You may eek out a miserable and starving life for a few months longer if you're in some other country, but it's not going to be Utopia.

Much of the nuclear fallout would stay north of the Equator. Chile & Argentina would be decent choices. We are all going back to self sufficiency, regardless of where we are. So, I wouldn't be waiting resupply from anyone. And, no, it wouldn't be Utopia. But nothing is Utopia now, so I'm not sure that is a factor. Propogation of the genes is the issue. We decided we wouldn't worry about that (although I'm not all in on that...I happen to think my genes are pretty damned good ).

 

[Tacitus]

If it happens, it happens. If there's a major event, I expect very few of us will have anything to worry about any more...

I think it would not be so comprehensive as people think. Many would survive. If we go out in the first flash of light, then we need not debate the issue. But, most will survive the first flash of light.

 

[Haertig]

But, most will survive the first flash of light.

That is what scares me most. Did you see the TV movie (or was it a mini-series?) "The Day After"? Mid-80's, with Jason Robards. Though fictional (of course!), that one left an impression on me.

 

[theheathen13]

Well.. well..well… things start to get interesting in the world and you want to tuck tail and run! I was born American and I will die American! Love or leave it, need help packing give me a call!

 

[Tacitus]

Nuclear survival is at the margins.

In the Army, they trained us: See a nuke flash?...you may already have survived. Fall forward, toward the flash. Helmet facing flash. Face down. Elbos tucked to body, hands under head covering face. Body flat. Feet splayed out flat, so heels are touching each other, and big toes are ground touching through boots. Wait. Let objects in blast waive fly over you while you stay tight on the ground. Survive the blast wave. Then...

Assess fallout. Was it a ground or low altitude detonation?...higher level of fallout expected. Which way is the wind? If wind approaching, implement fallout protocols (e.g., seek out or build shelter with dirt on top). If fallout not expected, then prepare to fight. In our case, as civilians, prepare to survive in other ways.

Not everyone dies in the initial detonation. There is room for survival. And if there is room for survival, then there is room for prepping ahead of time.

Everyone makes fun of the duck and cover videos...the hiding under elementary school desks. But, nuclear survival is at the margins. The kids under the desks might survive a collapsed school roof. If the blast is right on top of, say, an urban center school, then of course no one there survives. But, if the blast is right on top of the urban center school, then the suburban school kids under their desks might survive. It is good advice. Survival is at the margins. It is about probability and statistics. Every step you take improves your odds. Never despair.

 

[theheathen13]

No offense there buddy…. But quit listening to the guy on the radio and put down the glass of kool aid! If anybody goes nuke, there will be no place left! (With climate change and all) you probably best move in with John Kerry, he can help ya!

 

[Tacitus]

Well.. well..well… things start to get interesting in the world and you want to tuck tail and run! I was born American and I will die American! Love or leave it, need help packing give me a call!

My responsibilities (and hopefully yours) to family outweigh my responsibilities to some fanciful concept of a country that may or may not exist...that may or may not do the right thing. Our country is not perfect after all. It just is. It is an imperfect construct of society. My family, on the other hand, actually stands for higher values. Family first and country second. No apologies for that. But, thanks for the judgement.

By the way, I served my country in the military. I was single. Then I was married. Then I had kids. All while I was in the military, and I stood ready to lose my life if ordered to do so. But, now, I am retired. And, I have created options for myself and for my "kids." But, the wife and I are staying. But, again, thanks for the judgement.

 

[Tacitus]

No offense there buddy…. But quit listening to the guy on the radio and put down the glass of kool aid! If anybody goes nuke, there will be no place left! (With climate change and all) you probably best move in with John Kerry, he can help ya!

I disagree. There will be places left. But, we will be here.

 

[theheathen13]

First off, thank you for your service. Second I don’t believe in this current administration. (No spine) but I do believe in America and rather die here defending it then run off to a 3 rd world country. Argentina sounds great. They have great bird hunting…. ****** gun laws, currently are money is worth more but for how long! Just ride it out and it all count!

 

[theheathen13]

Sorry bout that! ( make it all count)

 

[kd4ulw]

Scientists used the Canadian wildfire a few years ago to validate the modeling of what the uncontrolled fires during a nuclear exchange would do to the atmosphere.

https://eos.org/articles/what-wildfire-smoke-tells-us-about-nuclear-winter

 

[Haertig]

I do believe in America and rather die here defending it then run off to a 3 rd world country

How does a civilian defend their country against a nuclear attack?

 

[angie_nrs]

How does a civilian defend their country against a nuclear attack?

By voting.........ah, well......maybe not. Clearly our vote doesn't count. Until or IF that is ever fixed, there's not a whole lot we can do, except to pray and to prepare for the worst, whatever that may be.

My best chance of survival in anticipation of a nuke it to stay put. If I die, so be it. But to move somewhere in anticipation of a nuke is risky too. I would have to make new friends, learn new planting strategies, re-supply all my stuff, learn the lay of the land, etc. All of that takes money and time......a lot of time. The risk/reward is just not worth it for me. I know where things are in my area. I know who to trust and who not to. And then there is also the 2A as others have mentioned. The networks and knowledge you have about your area is more valuable than many realize. Home court advantage is real.

I've just put too much time, money, and effort into my current homestead to ever consider making a move. Just the thought of it makes my head ache. My home is my last stand for as long as God allows me......