Opinions requested...."lone wolf,", mini-MAG, or small community MAG?

[brandx]

Got it.

The worst thing about SHTF, I think, is that the situation will make it very difficult to be nice...and I've always aspired to be a nice person, as long as people don't force me to be an *******.

I am nice almost 100% but when you cross my line, it is all over. I can be very stern when needed. In my line of work sympathy is not in the vocabulary.

 

[brandx]

You don't really have to till the ground to plant a garden, I've had small gardens in untilled grounds, I currently till our big garden to keep it neat nothing more.

I was thinking of the work of a farm, planting wheat, using the scythe, setting up hay, chopping wood with axes and 2 man saws, growing sorghum, etc. Thinking in the long term.

 

[Maverick]

I agree but usually sociopaths don't know there is anything wrong with them, they tend to mimic what others do in order to fit in, but they have little empathy for others and will be very dangerous without the restraints of society that we now have.

Thats a psychopath, psychopath doesn't realize what he is doing is wrong and doesn't care a sociopaths knows what hes is doing is wrong but can't stop, a sociopaths has the capacity to show empathy but a psychopath can't he or she has no feelings.

 

[Doreena]

Making a core group is what I would like to do. No real family left except my husband and my one sister is a LONG way away and she is off the grid and has a good chance of doing ok. Have been hoping to get some land away from the main drag and not that in the open and find a few good people that I can count on to spread the tasks out... one or two people wouldn’t easily be able to defend and produce on a homestead by themselves.


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[Mountain trapper]

Its just me and the wife. The kids are 8 hours away. It'd be nice to have a couple more to help share the work load around here.

 

[Maverick]

Making a core group is what I would like to do. No real family left except my husband and my one sister is a LONG way away and she is off the grid and has a good chance of doing ok. Have been hoping to get some land away from the main drag and not that in the open and find a few good people that I can count on to spread the tasks out... one or two people wouldn’t easily be able to defend and produce on a homestead by themselves.


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Maybe hooking up with your sister?

 

[Doreena]

Maybe hooking up with your sister?

I wish, she is in Maine, I am in Alabama. She is turning 70 this year, and her partner drives me crazy. I can’t move there and she won’t move here. But, if I got stuck there it could be worse!


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[user 7704]

I will have my 85 year old mother who at this time is very mobile
My Special Needs son who is 26. He's strong but can't function alone.
My husband who is worthless except on radio and writing.
My daughter and her husband. He is a pipefitter and very handy around the house.
Then me. I am a hard worker and do most of the work around here, but my back is catching up with me.

I'm guessing my son in law will want his parents too, but dang the haven't contributed at all.

 

[brandx]

Thats a psychopath, psychopath doesn't realize what he is doing is wrong and doesn't care a sociopaths knows what hes is doing is wrong but can't stop, a sociopaths has the capacity to show empathy but a psychopath can't he or she has no feelings.

Oh yea, you are correct and I had it wrong, but yes, that is right.

 

[brandx]

I will have my 85 year old mother who at this time is very mobile
My Special Needs son who is 26. He's strong but can't function alone.
My husband who is worthless except on radio and writing.
My daughter and her husband. He is a pipefitter and very handy around the house.
Then me. I am a hard worker and do most of the work around here, but my back is catching up with me.

I'm guessing my son in law will want his parents too, but dang the haven't contributed at all.

Sounds like you have some people to talk to.

 

[tmttactical]

On topic. IMHO Lone wolf and small family / couple will not survive past the first two pases of a nation wide SHTF event. The need to stand guard prohibits the quality sleep needed to function properly. The logistics of just trying to survive = food collection --grow, scrounge, scavenge. etc. are against this group. So the Mini-MAG is the next option and again it is logistic vs. wishes. As Rellgar pointed out, each person in the group MUST have the three qualities, relationship has nothing to do with the qualifications except for your family wards that ARE your responsibilities. Last but not least is the Community MAG. This is a double edged sword. If and that is a very BIG IF, it is structured correctly and with the right people leading (notice I did not say in charge) this is a good option. With the wrong structure and the wrong people in charge, this is the first step to creating a Warlord or Neegan.

Off topic, You may want to have a sociopath or two in your group. Their lack of empathy will allow them to make and follow the difficult decisions. Do you want somebody that just really loves children guarding the gate when a mysterious starving child shows up or do you want the sociopath guarding the gate. We, er , they have their uses. :ar15:

 

[Kevin L]

On topic. IMHO Lone wolf and small family / couple will not survive past the first two pases of a nation wide SHTF event. The need to stand guard prohibits the quality sleep needed to function properly. The logistics of just trying to survive = food collection --grow, scrounge, scavenge. etc. are against this group. So the Mini-MAG is the next option and again it is logistic vs. wishes. As Rellgar pointed out, each person in the group MUST have the three qualities, relationship has nothing to do with the qualifications except for your family wards that ARE your responsibilities. Last but not least is the Community MAG. This is a double edged sword. If and that is a very BIG IF, it is structured correctly and with the right people leading (notice I did not say in charge) this is a good option. With the wrong structure and the wrong people in charge, this is the first step to creating a Warlord or Neegan.

Off topic, You may want to have a sociopath or two in your group. Their lack of empathy will allow them to make and follow the difficult decisions. Do you want somebody that just really loves children guarding the gate when a mysterious starving child shows up or do you want the sociopath guarding the gate. We, er , they have their uses. :ar15:

I'm going to disagree with the sociopath thing.

A sociopath is only concerned about themselves, and they contribute as long as it serves their game.

When you couple this tendency with their charisma, charm, manipulative nature, and social camoflague...they do a lot of damage to people, work environments, famlies, and so even under the best of circumstances.

If you can't (and should never) trust a sociopath before it all falls apart...why would you want to include such a person after SHTF?

Perhaps the greatest endorsement of my beliefs in this area are the Inuit (eskimos) of the far north. In their tribal traditions, when they identify someone as a sociopath...they invite him (or her) on a hunt, and then push them off the ice into the frigid water.

This is from The Sociopath Next Door.

If we look at the disturbing frequency that sociopaths end up in positions of leadership, you can see why they are so dangerous to the integrity and survival of a group.

And yes, I would really try to figure out a way to give food to a starving child that shows up on my doorstep, but that's me.

 

[user 6493]

I got news for you kiddies,if the SHTF you will be no matter your plans be pretty much on your own,,,,,,,we won't see it coming so unless your groups is really close,no one will be going anywhere,,,,,,,,,,,especially if the nukes start dropping

 

[Kevin L]

One more point about the starving child thing: I would like it if people read a book that should be on every prepper's book shelf.

It's called Atrocity, and it's written by an author named Ka-Tsetnik 135633. Some translations of this book have the title Pipel.

Ka-Tsetnik (sometimes spelled Ka-Tzetnik) is the pen name of a Jewish survivor of Auschwitz-Birkinau. Ka-Tsetnik translates roughly as "Camp Prisoner", and the number is what's tattooed on his forearm.

This man's little brother (11 years old at the time) discovered that he could stay out of the gas chamber if he cultivated an intimate relationship with those block commanders who happened to be pedophiles.

This boy had to hide food and give it to the prior boy (who was discarded out of boredom) so he could learn about how to make his block commander happy in bed, since he was too young to understand sex.

It was quite heartbreaking and, I believe, should be required reading for every prepper and every Jew (such as myself).

I will make every effort to give food to any starving child who shows up on my doorstep post SHTF, and while I don't intend to run a soup kitchen or one-man charity...I plan to adhere to the ancient tradition of desert hospitality that's ingrained in the culture of my father's people.

 

[tmttactical]

@Kevin L Here is where the sociopath (no empathy) comes in handy. 1) How did a starving child find it's way to your guarded gate? 2) How did a starving child survive long enough to find it's way to your guarded gate? 3) Why would you reduce your supplies for a starving child? 4) How does reducing the communities food supply help the community to survive? What will happen after you have shared some of the communities supplies with this child? By the time a mini-Mag of Community Mag is assembled and becomes functional there will not be any unaccompanied starving children, they will have either perished or become bait for some group. JM2C

 

[Maverick]

My hospitality ends when the world goes to shxt like a long term SHTF or TEOTWAWKI child or not.

 

[Kevin L]

@Kevin L Here is where the sociopath (no empathy) comes in handy. 1) How did a starving child find it's way to your guarded gate? 2) How did a starving child survive long enough to find it's way to your guarded gate? 3) Why would you reduce your supplies for a starving child? 4) How does reducing the communities food supply help the community to survive? What will happen after you have shared some of the communities supplies with this child? By the time a mini-Mag of Community Mag is assembled and becomes functional there will not be any unaccompanied starving children, they will have either perished or become bait for some group. JM2C

I understand (and actually agree with) several of your points.

Of course I have no intention of allowing a child to play on my heartstrings in order to compromise my security.

As an example, children--strapped up with explosives--have been used in terrorism and guerrilla warfare, and have inflicted horrible casualties because of kind-hearted people letting their guard down...and I get this.

Food may have to be shared through an obscure, convoluted path.

People here seem to be God-fearing conservatives, and I respect this. I am too. I don't only adhere to my spiritual principles and faith when it's easy, but I also try to do it when it's difficult.

I prep so that I can retain my humanity post SHTF, not have it stripped from me.

 

[user 6493]

the chances of a kid turning up are small,,most likely if one did turn up it would belong to someone I know,,I would feed the child and then look for it's parents,,,,,,for a kid I will take a chance

 

[tmttactical]

@grayghost668 & @Kevin L If I was a marauder, that is why I would keep children handy. People will violate OPSEC for a child. Surviving is not just about having more food and ammo, it is also about understanding your opponents mindset. Unemotional decision making. Feeding the starving child did what for the child? It did not change the situation for the child, it will be hungry again the next day. It did prove to whomever sent the child that you have rations to spare. If you want to help the child you have to bring it into your group, not areal good idea. Good intentions and a certain road is paved. JM2C

 

[VenomJockey]

Well I gotta say. And this is the hardened look at things. There are givers and takers. Those who are looking for someone to take care of them, either by the government or by other people and you know who they are , those people need to go. If you do not contribute then you are out, no whiners, no slackers, no narcissists or dependent personality types. Luckily nearly everyone I know has an excellent work ethic and that is what is needed. Not people who plan to be catered to and try to work the system. I hate deadbeats. Anyone with a gang tatoo should be immediately eliminated. If something does happen I hope they do not open the jails and prisons.

In a SHTF event, I have a feeling the prison guards would absent themselves in a hurry, and all the prisoners would do likewise...all 3 million of them!

 

[VenomJockey]

@grayghost668 & @Kevin L If I was a marauder, that is why I would keep children handy. People will violate OPSEC for a child. Surviving is not just about having more food and ammo, it is also about understanding your opponents mindset. Unemotional decision making. Feeding the starving child did what for the child? It did not change the situation for the child, it will be hungry again the next day. It did prove to whomever sent the child that you have rations to spare. If you want to help the child you have to bring it into your group, not areal good idea. Good intentions and a certain road is paved. JM2C

Unfortunately this is true...the children will be used as unwitting pawns.

 

[Kevin L]

Just to play the devil's advocate: everyone here talks about being God-fearing, church, religion, and so on.

I consider myself to be intelligent and creative. I may have to undergo personal risk and act in a covert manner, but I will make a sincere attempt to retain my principles and act according to my conscience and my faith.

I may not be able to be as generous as I would like post SHTF, but I will certianly try.

I accept--as an article of faith--that generosity is a good thing. I don't equate "loving my neighbor as myself" to be a sign of weakness.

The recurring themes in the Holocaust (or Shoah) were a willing, voluntary blindness to what was happening around you, an unwillingness to take risks for your fellow man, an unwillingness to speak up, and an unwillingness to share.

These strategies didn't work in the long run.

So, I plan to be as generous as I can be, and define my survival by who I am as a person...not just by how long I can outlive the barbarians.

 

[Doreena]

I would have to weigh the facts in the situation. If the child could also help out (gardening, lookout, etc.) and they could be somehow evaluated as to threat, I may take them in. Feed and let them go, no. That would just light up the free buffet sign.


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[user 6493]

@grayghost668 & @Kevin L If I was a marauder, that is why I would keep children handy. People will violate OPSEC for a child. Surviving is not just about having more food and ammo, it is also about understanding your opponents mindset. Unemotional decision making. Feeding the starving child did what for the child? It did not change the situation for the child, it will be hungry again the next day. It did prove to whomever sent the child that you have rations to spare. If you want to help the child you have to bring it into your group, not areal good idea. Good intentions and a certain road is paved. JM2C

go read my post again spud,,,any child that I might come across I probably know there aren't that many around here,,,and you might be a cold hearted SOB that could let a child you know starve ,,,,I can not

 

[user 6493]

some of the crap I read on this forum is just beyond ignorance

 

[Kevin L]

Does it ever occur to anyone that there may actually be at least a few decent people post SHTF, and that someone, somewhere, might actually have gratitude that you fed their child for no other reason than for its own sake...and that a parent might reciprocate?

Please notice that I said "as generous as I can possibly be.." which means that I'll give someone rice, or maybe even a meal...not cut off my own arm in a fit of generosity so that they can eat it.

If I have to crunch numbers, and figure out a way to hide the source of the food...I may do that.

Spirituality is more important in a crisis, not less, and most of my spirituality is invested in how I treat my fellow human beings.

 

[tmttactical]

@grayghost668 Yes I am a cold hearted SOB, no doubt about it. Now as to your post, by the time you are behind locked gates (my post) do you really think any unaccompanied child would have survived long enough to get to your gate? A child would not hesitate to inform their new captors about your location and the possibilities of supplies. The purest form of barter, information for life. Adults and certainly children will not hesitate. That does not make the child any less a victim but it also does not warrant me risking my compound or community. Now what nobody has suggested YET, why not take the child in and then hunt down those that are using the child. You should not risk bringing the child in, unless you plan to go eliminate the people that are using the child. I would see the child as a pawn and have to eliminate the other players or send the pawn down the road. JM2C

 

[user 6493]

@grayghost668 Yes I am a cold hearted SOB, no doubt about it. Now as to your post, by the time you are behind locked gates (my post) do you really think any unaccompanied child would have survived long enough to get to your gate? A child would not hesitate to inform their new captors about your location and the possibilities of supplies. The purest form of barter, information for life. Adults and certainly children will not hesitate. That does not make the child any less a victim but it also does not warrant me risking my compound or community. Now what nobody has suggested YET, why not take the child in and then hunt down those that are using the child. You should not risk bringing the child in, unless you plan to go eliminate the people that are using the child. I would see the child as a pawn and have to eliminate the other players or send the pawn down the road. JM2C

yes where I live at it just might be possible for a child to get to my home the furthest any child around me would have to go is 4 miles,,,,now you do what you want I wouldn't dream of trying to tell you what to do,,,,,we all have to live with what we do if you can let a child starve so be it,,,,

I don't believe in the ALL MIGHTY,maybe you do but if he is by chance real, turn that child away be as cold hearted as you think is needed,,,you will get to see what hell is all about

 

[tmttactical]

@grayghost668 I respect the fact you will follow your beliefs, good to know. Since I am agnostic, I do not worry about spending time in hell. You should do what you think is best and I will do what I think is best. That is the one thing about life, we all get to live or die from our decisions.

 

[user 6493]

good enough