Redundant cashes are the only answer I've found for the main problem. Rocky mountain trappers did the same in the 1830's. Real opsec, if plan A goes out the window... It's best to have a plan B, C, D, E, etc.
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Peanut, I absolutely agree. If you only have a plan A. just open the door and save your self the grief.
Your right in that everyone can do something, but will they?
You have a wonderful way with words!
This thread is quite an eye opener! Thank y'all for the food for thought.
The Mr's and I have recently had this conversation, the conclusion is to have another place on our acreage to "stash" stuff. Now how do you stash stuff away from view? We have 34 acres and luckily 20+/- a couple is wooded and our neighbors won't be a problem either. So I have to build a "stash house" of some sort without making to permanent of a trail to it, don't want tractor tires or side by side tires leading someone right to it. So not sure how I am going to accomplish this task/feat!
As for opsec, we buy in bulk over 70 miles away from home (nearest costco) we raise our own hogs and cattle and even those are slaughtered 60+ miles away from home. We grow a garden, we can, we freeze dry to and as a matter of fact our freeze dryer has run non-stop for going on 8 months now. I can probably count on 2 hands the days it has not been running. (if anyone wants info, positive and negative on a Harvest Right freeze dryer PM me or If there is interest I can do a honest assessment thread I guess, not sure where it would go)
Anyways I do believe that no one will know how the situation will be handled until we are in that situation. That is something you can practice for, it will happen how it happens when it happens. I personally am looking at having more than an option A even though my plan is to bug in.
As for opsec, we buy in bulk over 70 miles away from home (nearest costco) we raise our own hogs and cattle and even those are slaughtered 60+ miles away from home. We grow a garden, we can, we freeze dry to and as a matter of fact our freeze dryer has run non-stop for going on 8 months now. I can probably count on 2 hands the days it has not been running. (if anyone wants info, positive and negative on a Harvest Right freeze dryer PM me or If there is interest I can do a honest assessment thread I guess, not sure where it would go)
Anyways I do believe that no one will know how the situation will be handled until we are in that situation. That is something you can practice for, it will happen how it happens when it happens. I personally am looking at having more than an option A even though my plan is to bug in.
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It is downright disturbing how much (and how clearly) Google Earth & Google Maps reveal... Also private drones are becoming as common as danged dragonflies these days.
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In Grizzleytte's post on the permanent attributes on some pain relievers reminds me of an old sayin...............Let a man stand beside your fire and you keep him warm for a day, Teach him how to make his on fire and he may stay warm, set him on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life!!!!! In the OPSEC on our preps I had a new freezer delivered and the rout the delivery men took thru the basement was past all the stores of supplies, All that was said by the delivery personnel was WOW!!......I knew that it could be a future problem so thinkin fast I said " OH the piles of food, It Shure is cluttering up my basement. I am storing my churches food pantry items until they finish with the remodeling project."
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OPSEC. My wife organizes her thoughts (as females have the tendency to do) by speaking out loud. And if an external event stimulates a thought she speaks it out loud too. Plus her and her siblings were trained by their verbally abusive father to be submissive and compliant. That's why she was willingly giving her DOB and would have given her SS number to a stranger that had called (I stopped her). If she knew I was planning for the worst (and hoping for the best) she would inadvertently tell all.
The decorative 1,000 gallon fish pond that I built in the circular driveway. She thinks I did it for our 25th wedding anniversary. Well it is. Unknown to her it's also an alternative water supply and prevents a Mad Max vehicle from zooming down the driveway ramming the house.
The chickens is just a phase I'm going through...
The generator (converted to LP) is because she is afraid of the dark...
Camping supplies is a failed dream that I had about when we became empty nesters and now will be for the grand-kids when they visit...
The few shooting sports I am involved with is to get me out of the house and to help compensate for my loner tendencies...
The raised garden I built for her I got carried away and built larger then she had envisioned...
So when the wife tells her friends (or strangers) about the garden I built for her, or the fish pond or the money I wasted on camping junk (she is not an outdoor person) the listener does not hear PREPPER! Yes a knowledgeable or trained person could make assumptions from the clues the wife gives, it's the best I can do.
The decorative 1,000 gallon fish pond that I built in the circular driveway. She thinks I did it for our 25th wedding anniversary. Well it is. Unknown to her it's also an alternative water supply and prevents a Mad Max vehicle from zooming down the driveway ramming the house.
The chickens is just a phase I'm going through...
The generator (converted to LP) is because she is afraid of the dark...
Camping supplies is a failed dream that I had about when we became empty nesters and now will be for the grand-kids when they visit...
The few shooting sports I am involved with is to get me out of the house and to help compensate for my loner tendencies...
The raised garden I built for her I got carried away and built larger then she had envisioned...
So when the wife tells her friends (or strangers) about the garden I built for her, or the fish pond or the money I wasted on camping junk (she is not an outdoor person) the listener does not hear PREPPER! Yes a knowledgeable or trained person could make assumptions from the clues the wife gives, it's the best I can do.
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. I just know if we all fall into our own bunker mentalities we lose some. of our humanity. If we are not extrememely cautious we risk everything. I understand that people need to be responsible for themselves, yet everyone needs a hand with something sometime.
I am wrestling with this not just because of the implications for my own life and others (and the struggle is very real) but also in part because I am trying to write a book on being a Christian and being a prepper. There are some books like that out there but typically they are either very superficial or they twist Scripture by using passages horribly out of context.
If anyone has thoughts on this struggle from A Christian perspective, please PM me. If they are not from a Christian perspective, I am not interested in debating world views or theology at the moment. That doesn’t mean your perspectives are not valid, it simply means that at this time they fall outside the purview of the scope of my inquiry.
Thanks
@BugoutBob May I suggest that the decision of donating is a personal decision? Whether to donate and how much to donate depends on individual perspectives, individual circumstances (many who wish to donate may not have the means), and a host of other factors. What makes sense for me may lead to catastrophe for you, and vice versa. It’s a highly subjective personal decision with no clear standard. You have to decide what is right for you and yours - nobody can set the standard for you. That is what makes the decision such a struggle. I personally wrestled with it for years. Hope you can come to a conclusion either way sooner than I did 
One more point: I would recommend making the decision before the situation presents itself and stick to that decision once made. When someone knocks on your door looking for a handout, tensions and emotions will run high - not a great time for clear and logical thought. So make the decision beforehand and stick to it.
One more point: I would recommend making the decision before the situation presents itself and stick to that decision once made. When someone knocks on your door looking for a handout, tensions and emotions will run high - not a great time for clear and logical thought. So make the decision beforehand and stick to it.
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There is one advantage of the secret donations and that one is when and who you donate to make Shure that the location is outside your immediate AO. Let them wander over yonder.
@BugoutBob May I suggest that the decision of donating is a personal decision? Whether to donate and how much to donate depends on individual perspectives, individual circumstances (many who wish to donate may not have the means), and a host of other factors. What makes sense for me may lead to catastrophe for you, and vice versa. It’s a highly subjective personal decision with no clear standard. You have to decide what is right for you and yours - nobody can set the standard for you. That is what makes the decision such a struggle. I personally wrestled with it for years. Hope you can come to a conclusion either way sooner than I did
One more point: I would recommend making the decision before the situation presents itself and stick to that decision once made. When someone knocks on your door looking for a handout, tensions and emotions will run high - not a great time for clear and logical thought. So make the decision beforehand and stick to it.
@fteter
I can’t disagree with what you say. I am not seeking someone to set the standard for me. I have a plan. I am seeking the perspectives of those who share my world view to help me consider their perspectives. I have written thousands of published pieces and one of the greatest dangers a writer can get into us not considering the perspectives of his audience.
For the Christian the standard is clear love others. There is a huge difference those between the abstract and the practicality (as there is in most aspects of the Christian faith)... but I don’t want to derail this thread so for tjos3 with thoughts I invite you to PM me.
@ssonb true
I can't help you, Bob because I am a mean old man so my views are somewhat self-centered.
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Charity begins at home. For me that means that I will accept a couple friends into my home. This is quite likely all the charity that I will hand out.
If I have extra it will go to a church or soup kitchen. As many stories as there are about relief efforts being hijacked by armed gangs or mobs there are always people willing to bring aid.
I will not have my home become known as a place that ever handed out food. I know a couple young men that love hunting. I would swap rice, beans, etc. for game meat to them. This would help my inner circle of friends and me as well.
If I have extra it will go to a church or soup kitchen. As many stories as there are about relief efforts being hijacked by armed gangs or mobs there are always people willing to bring aid.
I will not have my home become known as a place that ever handed out food. I know a couple young men that love hunting. I would swap rice, beans, etc. for game meat to them. This would help my inner circle of friends and me as well.
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Bob you bring up some good points. I think we all struggle with the thoughts of being a good person vs. crossing that line into becoming a monster. I know it's not realistic, but you can see that struggle in shows like the Walking Dead. That struggle is constant throughout that show. How far will you go to evade death? I think that answer is going to be different for everyone and I don't think anyone will truly know the answer until put into the situation that you would have to deal with it. Even though I think about situations in which this might occur, I know that I won't know for sure what MY answer is until the situation arises. Hopefully it never will. If it ever got to that point, I'm afraid I might be one of the first to go....... As far as I'm concerned there are things worse than death.
Bob, I think a thread in the Religion section addressing the struggle would be a good one. I would weigh in on that, even though I don't have the answers.
Charity is tricky. I have difficulty with it now. It's not that I'm stingy or greedy but I'm jaded and cynical since I've seen so many people get aide that didn't need or deserve it. In fact, some would have been much better off if they had to go out and earn their own way. I've also seen charities who don't manage their resources properly. I much prefer to give directly to people I know can use the money, will be grateful for it, and not squander it. I don't need a middle man to find someone deserving of a gift. I think I can do a better job myself! However in a SHTF situation (depending upon the severity) the decision becomes much more complicated.
As far as I'm concerned there are things worse than death.Bob, I think a thread in the Religion section addressing the struggle would be a good one. I would weigh in on that, even though I don't have the answers.
Charity is tricky. I have difficulty with it now. It's not that I'm stingy or greedy but I'm jaded and cynical since I've seen so many people get aide that didn't need or deserve it. In fact, some would have been much better off if they had to go out and earn their own way. I've also seen charities who don't manage their resources properly. I much prefer to give directly to people I know can use the money, will be grateful for it, and not squander it. I don't need a middle man to find someone deserving of a gift. I think I can do a better job myself! However in a SHTF situation (depending upon the severity) the decision becomes much more complicated.
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This is a tricky slippery moral slope. There have been many very good comments and suggestions and a lot to mentally digest, So for a break everyone get up jog in place, go outside and slap the neighbors dog to get it to chase you around the house, go an pee on an electric fence anything to get the blood flowing thru the ol brain, Grumpy go out and pick up yer stump then come on back and lets continue.....
@hiwall there is a little (or a lot) of mean old self centred in all of us. If you are like most cranky self centred SOB’s that I have met, there is a soft spot in the right circumstances even if gruffly given. Now if you a sociopath or psychopath that is nothing that a small lead tablet behind the ear judiciously applied can’t cure. I might have a soft heart but my momma didnt raise no dummies. So you be blessed you cantankerous mean old man ... I know you bless me with your writing.
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I used to feel the need to warn others. Word was out about me very quickly. I have since moved and no one at my old place knows where my new place is. No one at my new place knows that I prep. That is just the way it has to be. I have to be honest and say that anyone who shows up at my gate will be met at gun point. Luckily I live way out in the boonies. Most people around here are farmers in one way or another. They either raise livestock and/or have very large gardens. If the balloon went up I would guess that all ways into this area would be closed off to outside sources by locals and all inside the perimeter would care for each other as long as it was possible. Any extras to hand out will be shared through a local church. That already happens here.
For further discussion on the Christian side of prepping I have started a new thread in the faith section entitled Prepping From A Christian Perspective
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Yes, warning people only tells them that you might be able to help them out in a SHTF situation. Lots of people may hear you, but will do little or nothing, except think of you when they need help.
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Not sure is this is the appropriate thread, but if not, one of the Mods can relocate it. "Ceramic balls" are touted as being the ballistic doorstop for incoming lead....why not use crushed ceramic tile, instead? Less expensive, available locally, and apparently would do just as good a job at stopping incoming rounds. Any thoughts?
Why not use simple dry sand sand? Has been used for a century.
I think that 6" of sand will do what you wish and will cost way less. Here is a link to the Box-O-Truth. There are many interesting and educational pages on that site but the link should take you right to this answer.
https://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-7-the-sands-o-truth/
and people spend thousands on steel plates when all they needed was to go to the beach! Now to figure out how to lug a 6" barrier of sand around a person that'd be a neat trick.
interesting link Caribou, thanks for sharing.
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But you can store sand on site and have some prebuilt boxes to be placed in front of windows and just fill on the spot...HMMMMM..some thinkin info here.
Living in a neighborhood, I do talk a little about prepping with my neighbors, because if SHTF, I don't have a farm or bug-out to go to. Instead, I talk to them about being prepared for the things that we can experience- forest fires, big snowstorms, things like that. I also have quizzed my neighbors on their resources, so I know who has generators, who has old running cars, who has guns, who has what skills, etc. I know who cans and what equipment they have, and on and on. If something happens, I don't want to survive in isolation- my neighbors are all in to work together to keep all of us safe. I also have talked about prepping with the girls in my office, who also prep to a degree. We don't share quantities, etc, but we do share skills. One girl is Mormon, and she has shared a lot of information with the rest of us on food storage, getting items from the local Bishop's Storehouse, etc. Of course, every one of my neighbors and co-workers also knows I am perfectly capable of defending what I have. I've had a few of my neighbors come to the range with us, and so they know first hand I am not kidding when I tell them I can handle a weapon. I don't advertise prepping, but I think OPSEC can be a bit overdone sometimes. I prefer to think of prepping as a lifestyle, and I want to encourage as many of my friends and neighbors to live that lifestyle as possible.
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Kind of the same here,all our neighbors are gun owners and most can grow food and most know how to survive. All the hurricanes and storms have helped too. A couple weeks without power is a rude awakening.
if you go back far enough in families everyone had a full blown prepper in their family a 100 years ago or they didn't survive most likely! I am careful around where I live because the average income in my area is pretty low and if some knew what we have we could be targeted. Our house isn't fancy, it's a modular home put on a basement so most people are shocked to find out we even have a basement, most just think it is a mobile home sitting on block. Our barn is behind our house inside the edge of our woods, behind it in our holler (valley for your city folk) we have a 52' freezer box semi trailer parked which is great storage. We are going to be painting our barn this spring and will be painting the trailer to match it (the trailer can't be seen from the road so only our neighbors know it is even there. People around here know I have a tractor. they know I have a side by side but most around here have those things so it isn't something that really stands out. We are careful in what we show and who we show it to but not overly careful, we do it for personal security reasons and in case SHTF we don't want to appear to be the "have's" in the community to those that are trash (read trash as druggies, drunks, criminals).
Or you can build planters in front of the walls.
What I would like to do is build a planter next to the house. I'd start with a cinderblock wall up to the bottom of the windows and fill that with sand. Next I build another wall about a foot and a half out from that with brick or stone and fill it most of that with sand or gravel of some sort. The top six or eight inches would be good soil. A brick or stone facia could go up above that for added protection.
This would provide ballistic protection, a low risk, and fire protection, a much higher risk in my area. As a bit of an afterthought, this could provide some protection from radiation. It would be one way to protect yourself and your preps without being obvious.
What I would like to do is build a planter next to the house. I'd start with a cinderblock wall up to the bottom of the windows and fill that with sand. Next I build another wall about a foot and a half out from that with brick or stone and fill it most of that with sand or gravel of some sort. The top six or eight inches would be good soil. A brick or stone facia could go up above that for added protection.
This would provide ballistic protection, a low risk, and fire protection, a much higher risk in my area. As a bit of an afterthought, this could provide some protection from radiation. It would be one way to protect yourself and your preps without being obvious.
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