Preparedness Questions

[Clyde]

I have too, Thousands of mistakes, and I learned from every one of them.
as a buisness owner I make decisions everyday that require me to think of every possible problem. Once we sign a contract it is legal binding, I make money or I loose money with the details. It takes training to think of every detail. The one I miss is out of my wallet.

When prepping it is our lives, and the lives of our loved ones.

I only want to be an asset here.
To add some healthy resistance to everyone else looking at pictures of leathermans, saying yeah thats a nice one.
Everything is just a means to an end.
Some of my scouts hated me, now they introduce me to thier kids at the grocery store, saying they cant wait to get them in the scouts.

I too have been a business owner and am looking at venturing back in to that arena.
I welcome anyone challenging me to think outside the box and look at things from a different angle.

 

[Clyde]

Found a lost boy scout in my local mountains, freaked out crying. Poor kid was scared out of his mind. He got separated from his group and made a wrong turn on a trail, ended up going the wrong direction.

I hope they went after the scout master for not being aware of all of the scouts!
Talk about piss poor leadership.

 

[Colt 1911]

I hope they went after the scout master for not being aware of all of the scouts!
Talk about piss poor leadership.

We got him back to the trail head where the group was and they didn't even know he was missing ! No leadership at all !

 

[Hades]

Well I will say this about that subject, and if we are to discuss it more it should be moved to off topic.
I asked the age to find out if it even was a boy scout, anyone under 11 is a cub scout not boy scout.
Let us assume that it was a boy scout, just so I can liven this up some.

First BSA stands for boy scouts of america, not babbysitters of america.
Second, it is an organization ran by the boys not by the leaders. We are merely guidence.
Third this boy being "lost" is a breakdown of HIS protocal, and that of his buddy. He should never be without his buddy. 2 deep is a way of life in the scouts,noone goes anywhere alone, No leader is Ever to be alone with kids ( obvious legal reasons) a scout does not go to the bathroom without his buddy( not in exact area, but you get the idea)

There was an obvious problem, that I cant deny, Nor can you say what it was, you have no information before, nor do you know the outcome of the investigation after. We have taken 18 scouts on long hikes, I chose to keep 2 leaders in the back, if we only had 3 leaders, We all had to stay in the back. (no 2nd Leader for the front, protocal says we all 3 stay together) In some situations it would have been better to be in front, 18 boys, some slower some faster after 2 miles we may span 1/4 mile or so, there are other people using some trails and to be broken up is easier on everyone when passing in some places. But they had better be in 2s or more. speed and endurance is much different in ages between 11 and 18.

The fault may very well have been in leadership, leadership in the ranks of the boys. Failure in training is scout master problem. Everything from there is boys. senior patrol leader, patrol leader, assistant patrol leader, his buddy and him.

Here is the short of it, if something medical would have happened it would have been something. It didnt, its not. It was a learning experience for everyone. You know a crying kids mom had it folloed up.

Some boys simply give up, thats why I thought far enough ahead to take position in the back. Some need motivated all the way. Some need 2 more scouts to take them back to bottom, so thier mommy can pick them up and take them home. Some scouts should never try and be scouts, thier dads trying to toughen them up, while thier moms let them wear makeup.

Cant pack mud into a solid, it keeps squishing out the sides, cant pack flour into a solid, falls apart when you touch it.
To make a scout there needs to be the right consistancy of moisture lol.
Same as making survivalists.
Some can be taught to be leaders, others are just fodder, and dont know it.

 

[Clyde]

I agree that there needs to be someone of sufficient mental acuity to training the scouts, planning camps, hikes, etc, and ensuring the safety of ALL participants.
Mind you I do not pretend to know all things scouting, as I was never in it. My brother however, was an eagle scout and learned a great deal from the experience.
He was lucky in that is troop master was one of Orange County's best.

 

[Hades]

I am glad he had a good experience.
Not all leaders are good, I have met many that I would go to jail over if I could catch them out in the street away from the boys.

 

[Clyde]

I am glad he had a good experience.
Not all leaders are good, I have met many that I would go to jail over if I could catch them out in the street away from the boys.

From I just heard in the news this past week i would be inclined to join you!

 

[homeless]

i was going to send this stuff via email to hades but i guess it would be good info/discussion for here.....couple things....

1)WATER....i am going to route a pipe from my gutter down into the basement and collect rain water into plastic food grade 55 gallon drums. The water will run through a wall mount filter just to catch sediment then there will be a set of valves i can turn on/off to fill the drums...after the water is in the drums i can add water purification tablets/chemicals to make it sanitary/potable.....originally i was going to figure out a way to collect creek water but i figure collecting rain water would be easier and cleaner to start with. I would not have to make ALL the water i collect potable, just the stuff I'm gonna drink. The water i use for cooking is going to be boiled and the water i would use for cleaning/bathing wouldn't have to be potable, infact i could probably just treat a couple gallons at a time for drinking

2)FIRE/COOKING.....couple things that go hand in hand here....i want to put a wood burning stove in my basement....the reason i want to put it in the basement is because in the event of no power, my basement stays warmer naturally in the winter than the upstairs even though heat rises (ground heat)....so i need a little stove small enough for me to get down the steps and it needs to be a stove thats set up for cooking on also. I have found some small ones on craigslist that look like they would be perfect but i don't know sh*t about wood burning stoves...i have mechanical aptitude so i have common sense as far as mechanical stuff goes but i have never dealt with these....the window well that is closest to where i want to put the stove will have the glass block window removed, then i will install one of those coal door style doors in the window space. I am in the process of digging out the outside of the window well and taking that metal liner insert thing out and enlarging the hole. I have access to quite a bit of free cinder block and i am going to have a concrete "firewood well/bay" in that window well. In the winter when i am down there, i just open the window, grab some wood, load stove. That window well is right next to my patio in the back of the house in which i plan on making firewood stables. The firewood will be right next to the bay, load the bay, load the fire. I won't have to stack any wood in the house, no bugs, wood right there...all good. I am also going to build a fire pit/grill on the patio next to this stuff out of the cinder block also. I know cinder block isn't supposed to be used this way especially without a steel liner but the stuff is free so there...

3)FOOD/STORAGE.....i am going to put some shelving in the basement and store all the dry goods i can think of, not just food. My septic system doesn't need electricity to operate so i still have usability/flushability of the toilet. Store soap, TP, deodorant, food, everything....one thing I do NOT plan on is packing a chest freezer full of perishables to go bad when the power goes out. No, I'm not buying a generator....when the power is out on a massive scale for a week or better, you can't buy gas to feed it. Its worthless. Even if it were a genny on natural gas, you can't depend on that either. The house will be self sufficient without natural gas or electricity...that reminds me...i need candles too.....the whole firearm situation is covered also....Glock 19 sidearm, legally suppressed remington 700 in 243....thats all i need...in ohio we can't use that rifle on any game but in the event of "the end", hunting rules won't count....shoot...cook..eat....

let me know what you guys think....and tell me what I'm overlooking also.....

 

[Hades]

Glad you joined us homeless, I am also glad you chose to post here, like I said in the email I will help someone any way I can.
The greatest benifit to doing it here is you can get several opinions, as well as being able to help more who have similar ideas.
So here are my thoughts at the moment

1) That is a good idea, but the devil is in the details.
If you are going to have it all on manual, from the gutters I see alot of work. My point being that if you are to store 5 barrels of water, 275 gallons, it would simply be easier as well as more cost effective to just fill them with a line from the house. If you are thinking of them as a continuos water source then I see the point, but anything manual becomes a pain. I have installed diverters in downspouts, and they are problematic with blockages over time. I have been to lowes home improvements and picked up stuff to make a rainbarrel outside with overflow back into downspout/drain. I will finish that post when I have time (not tonight its already after 11 and I still have a couple of buisness quotes to finish) I would suggest you go this route, It can be done easiest if you have any location around the house that the ground is within 6 feet of the level of the floor in the basement. You could easily use the same rainbarrel system I will explain only having to add a bleeder line down to your barrels. Gravity will fill all the barrels to the same level, and you would not need a shutoff, or a checkvalve system to get it there. The water will overflow from the oustside barrel before overfilling the rest. I would also recommend you link the barrels inside together, so that they will all fill at same time instead of you having to manually fill each one, cost of linking the barrels would be about 7 dollars each. This will also insure that they will never overflow in the basement, Nor (most importantly) need you to manually do anything. (except treat what you drink)

2)Woodstoves, when I get more time I will start a thread on this one, as there are many issues, including fire hazards from the stove and the flue pipes, Inspecting it for seals on the door, flow of air(when the smoke goes out it negative pressures the area the stove is in, so there needs to be planned air intake, or the smoke cant escape, and oxygen can be replaced in the room LOL) Understanding conduction, convection and radiant heat, so you dont set the floorjoists over the stove on fire, as well as some insurance companys will cancell or raise rates If they even find out you have one. This issue will be no problem, I am from hickville WV ( part time) I have Built/installed/repaired many wood/coal stoves. But needs too much info for me to cover at this time. If you are in a hurry to buy one because of a good deal let me know, I will email you my # so we can discuss on phone what you need to be looking at when you go to buy one,( I can talk faster than type) if its before I get that thread made (maybe this weekend, going to be long hrs this week to get caught up with work)

3) sounds like you have this one covered.

 

[Krime]

Food= canned meats/ fruits/ vegtables cold meals 12 months in storage for 14 (extended Family group)
seed = more than enough for a years planting
Jars and lids = reuse what we have canned up now, plus much more
livestock= more of a liability than asset after day 2 the noise they make will bring more guests than will get to leave. Will be ran off into back woods for possible recapture later when the uh... competition has thinned out.
Everything that can be kept quiet and guarded easier will be caught up, all roosters must die. Always keep new ones comming up so males can reach maturity after the worse has passed. Can perpetuate breeding from those younger ones later, without them crowing thier location like a dinner bell.
2 ponds full of catfish, self reliant, hundreds possibly thousands of pounds of protien.
Water never ending, 40' well, good checkvalve and a hand pump. 3 checkvalves in storage, 3 sets of gaskets for hand pump in storage. Knowledge to build a well bucket (flap bucket if I have to)
Gas = none It will just sound like a dinner bell to those without. whole groups will be inialated from hundreds of yards away. Thier generators will be the beacon that brings the victors. Even a small band can watch a groups doings for a day and understand who is the leaders and who are followers. and plan acordingly.
It may be months before it will even truly be safe to build a fire. only by doing your own scouting will one know.
I am not being over the top, its human nature. Even a child will be able to hear noise, or smell smoke and know that there are other people around. How many more mouths can you take in, can you sleep with people in your stronghold that you dont know. You have, they need. its simple math.
Let it be known where you are, and they will come, first begging, when you stop giving what they want, they will still come.
Bullets, a few LOL

HA!
you must truly be out of the city located to run such a facility, which is very much one of my requirements for someone if they would want to bug in. Kudos!
however, i can also find a few flaws in your plan here too you may want to concider:
like your water well.
wells tap into underground streams (usually), you may want to research exactly where your water originates. if one was to tap into tap into that same stream miles "up river", or even a few people, you may end up with a depleting, or depleted water source.
also, alot of underground streams come from large bodies of water, of which people like to live near, if there is mass death post-shtf, your water well may become disesed. i suggest a purification filtration for your well. this may also effect your catfish.

 

[Colt 1911]

HA!
you must truly be out of the city located to run such a facility, which is very much one of my requirements for someone if they would want to bug in. Kudos!
however, i can also find a few flaws in your plan here too you may want to concider:
like your water well.
wells tap into underground streams (usually), you may want to research exactly where your water originates. if one was to tap into tap into that same stream miles "up river", or even a few people, you may end up with a depleting, or depleted water source.
also, alot of underground streams come from large bodies of water, of which people like to live near, if there is mass death post-shtf, your water well may become disesed. i suggest a purification filtration for your well. this may also effect your catfish.

Oh Krime, here it comes.

 

[Krime]

Oh Krime, here it comes.

all good, if hes got it covered then cool, if not, im glad to help.
also one might want to think about how to feed these animals post-shtf, and how to care for them too, like taking some Veternarian courses as well to make sure your animals are in proper health before eating them. many diseases of animals will accumulate not only ones we've heard about, but id imagine new ones will appear as well.

 

[Hades]

I am lucky enough to live in the country. small farm, I am surroundeed by much larger farms. I agree this could never be done in city.
when we need room, my brother drops off a dozer or excavator and we just push out more trees.
When we need more storage, we dig another crease in the hill and bury another conex from fort bragg surplus
You are absolutly right about the water, In litterally all clay soils you must "hit water veins" I am again lucky enough to live in "sandland"( sandhills of NC.) as long as the water table is good the shallow well will never run out, and every drop is treated with 40 feet of sand filter, lol.Can be pumped out into barrels and chemically treated if need rises.
If it fails I still have 2 deep wells I could acess water from, one that I use for the plant nursery when the ponds start dropping too far, The other well its got so much iron in it I would probably treat water from the pond first LOL.

Depending on exactly what happens I do have have to worry about loosing the catfish, I have in the past had large dieoffs from pumping too much water to nursery, and the temp of water in ponds getting too high, then the algae bloomed, and of course died after using up nutrients in water. the dying algae started rotting displacing oxygen, killed many fish. Thats just 1 of many times I had to learn the devil is in the details, I didnt even think to factor less water would warm faster.

No streams or creeks from closest city 10 miles away Sanford,NC our whole county only has about 60,000 in it, Persons per sqare mile in Lee county, NC is like 227 and that is averaged including the city. I have no worry of biohazard contamination of our water. I do have to worry with Fort bragg being so close, to a fallout contamination issue if that scenerio played out, but then truly all one could do, (IF the government even warned us) would be pop the top on one of grandpaws jars of peach mountain dew, grab a lawn chair, and catch the last show.

 

[Krime]

I am lucky enough to live in the country. small farm, I am surroundeed by much larger farms. I agree this could never be done in city.
when we need room, my brother drops off a dozer or excavator and we just push out more trees.
When we need more storage, we dig another crease in the hill and bury another conex from fort bragg surplus
You are absolutly right about the water, In litterally all clay soils you must "hit water veins" I am again lucky enough to live in "sandland"( sandhills of NC.) as long as the water table is good the shallow well will never run out, and every drop is treated with 40 feet of sand filter, lol.Can be pumped out into barrels and chemically treated if need rises.
If it fails I still have 2 deep wells I could acess water from, one that I use for the plant nursery when the ponds start dropping too far, The other well its got so much iron in it I would probably treat water from the pond first LOL.

Depending on exactly what happens I do have have to worry about loosing the catfish, I have in the past had large dieoffs from pumping too much water to nursery, and the temp of water in ponds getting too high, then the algae bloomed, and of course died after using up nutrients in water. the dying algae started rotting displacing oxygen, killed many fish. Thats just 1 of many times I had to learn the devil is in the details, I didnt even think to factor less water would warm faster.

No streams or creeks from closest city 10 miles away Sanford,NC our whole county only has about 60,000 in it, Persons per sqare mile in Lee county, NC is like 227 and that is averaged including the city. I have no worry of biohazard contamination of our water. I do have to worry with Fort bragg being so close, to a fallout contamination issue if that scenerio played out, but then truly all one could do, (IF the government even warned us) would be pop the top on one of grandpaws jars of peach mountain dew, grab a lawn chair, and catch the last show.

although, i think you have quite a great grasp on things, i believe you were missing what i was saying. possably my fault so ill explain a bit better:
your wells, the water comes from underground streams, therefore they come from a body of water most likely north of you. as i said before, people will live around that body of water, usually in larger citys as export/import or water was even a factor when establishing state bounries. people will surely die. who will burry them? most likely nobody. its only a matter of time before the water is polluted by the bodies. then that pollution will hit your water supply via underground stream. then you/family/livestock next if you dont have anything to mass purify (because the animals) you are going to have problems. even if its as simple as diarehha or vomiting, these things can cause dehydration, leading you to drink more of the foul water. as you've stated in a different post, even with natural filtration, there is bound to be microbs in the water.
personally, me myself, i would trust no water post-shtf unless properly filtered and probably boiled.

 

[Hades]

interesting

 

[okkeithson]

I see water as by far our biggest problem when shtf. Even if you have it as we do, self proclaimed government will take it by drilling bigger wells or by force. We can hide and store enough food, water, and arms to get us through any initial collapse in unprepared human thinning out, then become farmers, etc; but there is no way the water will survive the shtf. Filtration is going to be the key to life for everyone that survives the initial collapse, I feel. At least that's my fear at the moment; that and hiding out long enough to get through it.

 

[old_anorak]

One thing I would like to add to our set up out here in the boonies is a windmill for the well. It is shallow enough to draw manually if needed, but drawing water in the winter blows. We built a springhouse over the head of the spring on our property and it not only provides another source of water, but also a way to keep foods cold without electricity. We have worked very hard to be as sustaining as we possibly can be and we are always striving to find ways to make us more so.

Food wise, we are sitting pretty good. Root cellar is full, pantry, cupboards, spare room is all full as well as having meat on the hoof. We've got the canners and jars to go with to can up things if the freezer is no longer viable. We don't have a genny because I don't want to advertise to others that we are doing alright. Most of the work done on our place is done with horses, yes they eat, but you have to buy gas and such for a tractor. Horses are quiet and tractors piss me off.

 

[Colt 1911]

One thing I would like to add to our set up out here in the boonies is a windmill for the well. It is shallow enough to draw manually if needed, but drawing water in the winter blows. We built a springhouse over the head of the spring on our property and it not only provides another source of water, but also a way to keep foods cold without electricity. We have worked very hard to be as sustaining as we possibly can be and we are always striving to find ways to make us more so.

Food wise, we are sitting pretty good. Root cellar is full, pantry, cupboards, spare room is all full as well as having meat on the hoof. We've got the canners and jars to go with to can up things if the freezer is no longer viable. We don't have a genny because I don't want to advertise to others that we are doing alright. Most of the work done on our place is done with horses, yes they eat, but you have to buy gas and such for a tractor. Horses are quiet and tractors piss me off.

I am very impressed and jealous of your set up, really cool. I see you are from MO. I love it there. I have folks there.

 

[old_anorak]

Thank you Colt. This is how I was raised, doing things the way they were done in generations past. I don't like noise that isn't organically originated. Vacuum cleaners, lawn mowers, ringing phones, tractors, all of the noises these things make just set my teeth on edge and I turn into Evil Redneck Hillbilly Witch in a heartbeat. Whereabouts in MO have you visited if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Colt 1911]

Thank you Colt. This is how I was raised, doing things the way they were done in generations past. I don't like noise that isn't organically originated. Vacuum cleaners, lawn mowers, ringing phones, tractors, all of the noises these things make just set my teeth on edge and I turn into Evil Redneck Hillbilly Witch in a heartbeat. Whereabouts in MO have you visited if you don't mind me asking?

Marshfield, Springfeild, Mark Twain wilderness, Branson, would like to move to Marshfied in my golden years but that's some time away.

 

[SSTxPrepper1]

I agree! I need to make a trip to REI for some fact finding, then go order it from the internet, as REI is so damn expensive.

Yes they are very high i will agree to that. And for the question , for 2. Total would prob be ejected anywhere from 1 to 2 months. Now if we get to our BOL - Bug Out Location/ bunker area then we are looking at about over a year at BOL location.:ar15:

 

[old_anorak]

Colt, have you checked out Fordland, Seymour, or Ava? I grew up down in there. Heck, for all I know you just might be a cousin somewhere down the line. Love the area down there and the people. I still have a fair amount of family down in there as well.

 

[Colt 1911]

Colt, have you checked out Fordland, Seymour, or Ava? I grew up down in there. Heck, for all I know you just might be a cousin somewhere down the line. Love the area down there and the people. I still have a fair amount of family down in there as well.

I will have to pull out the maps. I hope to get out there in July. You are right about the people, its a place i would like to raise my son, but unfortunately my job is going to hold me here in CA where i dont even know my neighbors.

 

[old_anorak]

If you take A out of Marshfield, that will take you down to 61? and you'll encounter a good sized Amish population as you get closer to the highway. Anyhow, turn right on the highway and you'll go to Fordland, left will take you to Seymour. Just watch out for the horse and buggies on the road

 

[Colt 1911]

If you take A out of Marshfield, that will take you down to 61? and you'll encounter a good sized Amish population as you get closer to the highway. Anyhow, turn right on the highway and you'll go to Fordland, left will take you to Seymour. Just watch out for the horse and buggies on the road

That's close by, are you in that area ?

 

[Dani]

I have about a years worth of food right now, after that, I have my livestock and my garden food that I will be using and canning (seeds already for the next garden planting). We have a well that has lines to go out to the differnt pastures and sprinklers for the garden. I have a water canal that boarders our property. I do still need to get a hood water filtration system.

 

[Colt 1911]

I have about a years worth of food right now, after that, I have my livestock and my garden food that I will be using and canning (seeds already for the next garden planting). We have a well that has lines to go out to the differnt pastures and sprinklers for the garden. I have a water canal that boarders our property. I do still need to get a hood water filtration system.

Nice !!

 

[rudyc]

for my wife and i, i have food and water stored up in a storage in my home property.

i have at least a guaranteed 30 days worth of food and water.
multiple cans of food, vegetables, soups, fruits. ramen noodles. tuna, canned chicken.
i have around 60 gallons of water in different kind of containers, such as many packs of 16.9 oz. water bottles, many single gallon water bottles. 2-6 gallon jugs, 2-7 gallon jugs. all filled with water.

now i have a few filter straws in our bug out bags, and a katadyn water filter in our bug out bag, in case i need to get water from somewhere.
i also have a water bob that fits in the bath tub. that is an aditional 60-80 gallons of water that i can have. this is stored in our shed.

included in my 30 day supply of food are 5 different 5-gallon buckets of food, for 2 people for 3 days. so, if we are bugging in, and i am not home, my wife can have access to get at least 15 days worth of food for 2 people in a few minutes. plus i also have 2-5 gallon water jugs in the house and at least a 32 pk of water always in the fridge or in the pantry.

btw, cant forget toilet paper. we have about 6 months of toilet paper.

 

[Colt 1911]

for my wife and i, i have food and water stored up in a storage in my home property.

i have at least a guaranteed 30 days worth of food and water.
multiple cans of food, vegetables, soups, fruits. ramen noodles. tuna, canned chicken.
i have around 60 gallons of water in different kind of containers, such as many packs of 16.9 oz. water bottles, many single gallon water bottles. 2-6 gallon jugs, 2-7 gallon jugs. all filled with water.

now i have a few filter straws in our bug out bags, and a katadyn water filter in our bug out bag, in case i need to get water from somewhere.
i also have a water bob that fits in the bath tub. that is an aditional 60-80 gallons of water that i can have. this is stored in our shed.

included in my 30 day supply of food are 5 different 5-gallon buckets of food, for 2 people for 3 days. so, if we are bugging in, and i am not home, my wife can have access to get at least 15 days worth of food for 2 people in a few minutes. plus i also have 2-5 gallon water jugs in the house and at least a 32 pk of water always in the fridge or in the pantry.

btw, cant forget toilet paper. we have about 6 months of toilet paper.

Nice, I am going with a 30 day supple also, how do you like your filter straw ? I have the life straw it's great for my get home bag [GHB].
Have you seen a five gallon water filter set up ?

 

[old_anorak]

Colt, I have no idea on how to quote a post, but I'll answer your question. No, I don't live down in there anymore, I'm north of the Missouri River now.