Prepper Ethics

[BillMasen]

in what apocalypse hell are you going to be living where a boarded up & guarded homeowner will only have a 50-50 chance against some POS looter? - there's neighborhoods right now that a looter would have a 2% chance of living thru a property trespassing foray - much less tearing doors down ...

totally different set of circumstances between a SHTF and a honest-to-God apocylypse of a massive kill-off >>> probably talking 100-500 max out of a 5,000 count community - better be doing some regional society building to survive the long run and less of a beenie weenie looting thru some pantry ....

If you think a scavenger / looter/ salvager is always going to come strolling down the street up to your front door you are sadly mistaken. EG there are MILLIONS of former military dudes who know full well to watch and observe from afar, First to see if a property is inhabited , If Yes and they are not smart enough to go elsewhere they will watch and learn. They will choose when to attack, usually if you come outside for any reason then its you who gets the round to the head.. Its called Reconnaissance in force.

(1) This dude and many MANY like me will WATCH first, then calculate the risk, most half smart dudes will look elsewhere, but many will just wait to ambush the homeowner. (2) Mr and Mrs Homeown are also more likely to meet a GROUP of hostiles than a single stupid looter.

However if they want YOU and not your property they will just burn you out. Total locked down boarded up homesteads make good coffins and funeral pyres., especially if you dont have a concealled escape route.

The SMART prepper will know when to stand his ground and when to give ground. Only a fool will go looking for a firefight.

 

[BillMasen]

stores will be picked clean inside of a week ,,even now good luck finding ammo,,,,what are you going to find in a deserted store that has been picked over after a few weeks,,,,,,,,,,,,,guns ammo and food left behind will be on the list of things needed,,,,and I doubt they will be in any stores,,,,,

I have ranchers around me ,,,there will be equipment and about 400 head of cattle here,,,if everyone but me is gone,it's food for a lifetime

ok you guys have my $.02 worth now,,,,,,,

What is the obssession with guns and ammo?? Chances are anyone looking for supplies is looking for medicines, anti biotics, food stuffs, clothing, fuel, or even just shelter or a source of clean water.

 

[BillMasen]

you'll just have to brave that .223 to the brainpan to find out whether you're dealing with a "cannibal's" home that has been left totally unmolested - or - it's part of a protected neighborhood and POS looters are being shot for hog food ....

Good point, just like the home owner will also face the same round to the head if and when he ventures outside to collect stuff or do chores or even to patrol his perimeter, from the concealed rifleman reccying the house.

 

[lonewolf]

I've NEVER believed in the "Golden Horde" theory and most Squaddies will go home and look after their families, same with Police, the only ones actually at their post will probably be nurses and nursing auxilaries.
any looting over here is going to be city people looting city properties, stores to begin with then residential houses.
without fuel nobody is going to be walking very far, dont forget we have an obesity crisis in this country, they'll be waddling not walking.

 

[BillMasen]

I've NEVER believed in the "Golden Horde" theory and most Squaddies will go home and look after their families, same with Police, the only ones actually at their post will probably be nurses and nursing auxilaries.
any looting over here is going to be city people looting city properties, stores to begin with then residential houses.
without fuel nobody is going to be walking very far, dont forget we have an obesity crisis in this country, they'll be waddling not walking.

I'm refering to EX forces, the millions of former military guys n gals NOT the serving armed forces ( who I spose could go looting on their way home after going AWOL )

 

[lonewolf]

yeah but they are spread out all over the country, not all in one place, and have ordinary jobs and ordinary families.

 

[user 6493]

What is the obssession with guns and ammo?? Chances are anyone looking for supplies is looking for medicines, anti biotics, food stuffs, clothing, fuel, or even just shelter or a source of clean water.

once the stores are depleted,,,just how do you plan on taking wild game for the table or protecting yourself and family from wandering gangs without a gun or ammo for it,,,,,,are you going to whip out your trusty straw and shoot spitballs at them

 

[BillMasen]

once the stores are depleted,,,just how do you plan on taking wild game for the table or protecting yourself and family from wandering gangs without a gun or ammo for it,,,,,,are you going to whip out your trusty straw and shoot spitballs at them

The same as those of us do now. Reloading,snaring,trapping, netting, fishing, slingshot, air rifle, hunting bow or grow the critters in cages, and you should have the ammo you need already. its called PREparing for a reason.

 

[user 6493]

The same as those of us do now. Reloading,snaring,trapping, netting, fishing, slingshot, air rifle, hunting bow or grow the critters in cages, and you should have the ammo you need already. its called PREparing for a reason.

,after SHTF it will be a war zone it will bring the worse out in everyone,,,, no one is coming over for just a cup of tea

 

[BillMasen]

,after SHTF it will be a war zone it will bring the worse out in everyone,,,, no one is coming over for just a cup of tea

What has that got to do with finding food??? which is what you asked about, but none the less my reply is the same. You should have the ammo you need already.

 

[jontte]

my 2 cents in this ; if it's survival, I will scavenge, if it's abandoned, I will take it, those who think, there will be some "high morale against this" will be in for a nasty surprise, you will do what ever it takes to feed and provide for your loved ones.
looting is off the table for this chap.
pls spare us the bs,trying to explain some higher morale standards you might think you possess, in shtf, if it's there,abandoned, you will take it, you need to feed your family, you will do it, with what ever means you can, firts thing that will go the way of the dodo bird in shtf are civilized manners.

 

[BillMasen]

my 2 cents in this ; if it's survival, I will scavenge, if it's abandoned, I will take it, those who think, there will be some "high morale against this" will be in for a nasty surprise, you will do what ever it takes to feed and provide for your loved ones.
looting is off the table for this chap.
pls spare us the bs,trying to explain some higher morale standards you might think you possess, in shtf, if it's there,abandoned, you will take it, you need to feed your family, you will do it, with what ever means you can, firts thing that will go the way of the dodo bird in shtf are civilized manners.

Another one using common sense, its frightening

 

[jontte]

Another one using common sense, its frightening

scary thing ,mate, isn't it?

 

[user 7368]

I think if in a big long term SHTF event where so to speak everything (world) is affected there will be massive looting within a short time because about 85% of the population is totally unprepared. In such a scenario I run after about 3 days voluntarily in the mountains even if I live in the country.
If no help comes and there is nothing left in the stores, the first FB and I-Phone junkies will die after 7 days, the big rest after two to three weeks and it will come to the worst scenes.
The other question will be whether looting of larger towns and cities is then still a good idea, if everywhere dead lying around diseases will break out and also other such as the water may be contaminated by dead or failed water purification plants furthermore there is still the danger of chemical accidents in chemical factories.

A long-term SHTF case will also correct our life expectancy strongly downwards, and if no more food is available or can be hunted everyone becomes a looter, ethics will no longer be present, absolutely not.
In this time, food, medicine, weapons and ammunition are probably the most important for survival, and if you have no way out, you at least still have the weapon to choose a quick way out.

I hope that I never have to experience a large and long-term SHTF, which would be very bad and it would be a nightmare.

 

[Mountain trapper]

If there ever is a true shtf event then anything that is really abandoned would be fair game for scavenging. But, many cabins out in the woods may look abandoned but aren't. For many years I had rotational jobs where my work schedule could be 6 months on and 6 months off. I even had some schedules that were 15 months on and 3 month's off or 9 and 3. To a casual passerby my place may have looked abandoned. During these years nobody ever touched my stuff, plus I never locked anything.

 

[BillMasen]

If there ever is a true shtf event then anything that is really abandoned would be fair game for scavenging. But, many cabins out in the woods may look abandoned but aren't. For many years I had rotational jobs where my work schedule could be 6 months on and 6 months off. I even had some schedules that were 15 months on and 3 month's off or 9 and 3. To a casual passerby my place may have looked abandoned. During these years nobody ever touched my stuff, plus I never locked anything.

AD would you in your experience advise / suggest that people with cabins and lodges that are stocked up take steps to cache or conceal or hide those supplies whilst the residents were away IF it appears that things are going downhill??

 

[Mountain trapper]

AD would you in your experience advise / suggest that people with cabins and lodges that are stocked up take steps to cache or conceal or hide those supplies whilst the residents were away IF it appears that things are going downhill??

Absolutely. Especially valuable and irreplaceable items. There's a lot of old mines on and around my property that are great locations to cache at least some food and other supplies. How much is "some"? Maybe at least 6 months worth. In my location winter could last 6 months before I could even think about growing anything.

 

[Schattentarn]

Well, my cabin in the wood burnt down with everything aboard. Not only do you have to hide it, you have to put it somewhere it will survive fire and floods.

 

[BillMasen]

Well, my cabin in the wood burnt down with everything aboard. Not only do you have to hide it, you have to put it somewhere it will survive fire and floods.

Oh hell I'm really sorry to hear that, was it insured?

 

[Dracos]

First few weeks people will search for food and clean water. I have reason to believe that most city people will stay in the cities. By the time they realize there is nothing left for them, the survivors will be about out of ammo and fuel. In thinly populated but close knit farming communities like mine, I'm not too worried about some one with a wheelbarrel crossing the Rocky Mountains and taking over. Many of us have military training and everyone (almost) I know has at least one hunting rifle. With fuel depleated and farm machinery down
I am hopeful that many people would see the advantage of working for food instead of trying to steal it.
Backup plan, guns and ammo. Dogs and chickens need food.

 

[GaRp58]

pls spare us the bs,trying to explain some higher morale standards you might think you possess

Thanks for this specific comment Jon. There are many of us here and other places who believe in God and the way of life we LIVE...which means we DO HAVE HIGH MORAL STANDARDS...because we believe there is a greater and more important situation waiting for us. IF WE DID NOT BELIEVE THIS---THEN IT IS AN ABSOLUTE TOTAL WASTE OF TIME BEING A GOOD PERSON.

you only live once...no risk no gain....take the money and run...do unto you neighbor BEFORE he does unto you...I will take what is mine..... These are the typical thoughts of non-believers and those who are "more righteous than thou".

After the world has gone broken, there will be no law except: survive and shoot first. Nature teaches us this quite well. But, we are human and have eternal souls, even if some deny this fact...THAT is why we will have to decide "AFTER THE FACT" of SHTF and not here and now...as long as those writing such "lovely and chastise" words here--still have a full stomach and enough water...they will preach their own perfectness. I saw this in wartime, while children were picking plants from the streets (weeds) to make some soup with, eating half rotten apples and ham from cellars with green slime on it...

Take their clothes, heat, water, food and the roof over their head away and they will cry like little girls within a week, I watched it happen. They will steal, lie, cheat and sell their bodies for a piece of chocolate or a cigarette...I have seen it. They will not hesitate to take ANYTHING not nailed down, if they cannot eat it, burn it or wear it they will sell or trade it for food and water!!! I have seen it happen. After they have it and try to sell it and someone tries to sell the same thing for a lower price, they will be ready to kill that person for taking food out of their mouths....I have watched it happen. I am fighting tears just remembering these things

The human being is only holy and friendly as long as it has that what it calls and decides to call "the minimum needs" of daily life...after that, it is like any other animal in nature which wants to survive...I have also watched this with my own eyes...BUT, there are also those among us who are so very strong that they would give the last piece of bread or drink of water to a loved one first...I know 2 such persons myself...many would die for their family and friends...others would just leave their kids locked up in a room with food and water and walk away and let others take over the responsibility for them...this happened in East Germany thousands of times when the Berlin Wall fell in 1989...the Fire Dept. had to chop doors down to get them out...

Sorry to use such hard statements and cold words, but the truth of human beings in stress or death situations has shown me the real side of many other persons...just as bigpaul would rather be a hermit for the same reasons...I hope you have many good experiences and few bad, but be prepared for the most dangerous and calculating animal on the planet...a hungry human with a gun...Live free, Gary

 

[user 6493]

What has that got to do with finding food??? which is what you asked about, but none the less my reply is the same. You should have the ammo you need already.

if the world ever does go to hell,,,,there is no such thing as enough ammo,,,if I had the money I would have 2 54ft tractor trailer loads of it stashed in my barn,,,and still be looking for more

 

[LiveTrap]

I really don't think there will be that much to scavenge anyway. The food will all be eaten. If a large amount of the population is dead, then clothing, and shelter will be everywhere. Something like a wood stove would be worth looking for, but very difficult to find in most of the country. Most of us all have basically the same stuff in our houses, and there will be plenty of the common items to be had if everyone starves to death. The people that survive will be small isolated communities that are used to living off the land. A commercial fisherman will be able to trade for anything that he needs. The lone wolf type survivor will be OK for awhile, but could very easily run into a health problem, a tooth ache, or something else that he will need some help with.

 

[tmttactical]

AFTER the die off there could be a tremendous amount of salvage items. Batteries, lighters, candles, fishing gear, Archery gear, pellet rifles and pellets, knives, snares, traps, safety kits, fire extinguishers, lighter fluid, charcoal briquets, and the list goes on and on. If the event is a grid down type event (fast acting) then there will be multitude of scavenge items. If it is a VZ economic collapse, then there will be very little left to scavenge.

 

[Schattentarn]

OK, we are not going into cabins. What about vehicles abandoned at the side of the road. In a SHTF there will be wrecks when people panic and forget their driving skills. There will be breakdowns, etc. At what point do you siphon off the gas or diesel in these vehicles?

I think there is going to be a lot of scavenging or looting the finer points of which are going to fade as time goes on.

 

[Mad Dog 1]

All points that have been raised & answered are valid, but will any one country suddenly collapse if it is a natural disaster ( would the whole country be affected ), going back in history this has not happened , so far Covid has not collapsed a country yet, I believe the big C is the biggest threat to man kind as we know it ,the more that is made there for the rest of the world the poorer the world will become , they will be like the explorers ( Columbus ) of the past invading a country , back in the 60's there was the film: On the Beach 1959, ( book by Nevil Shute ) tried to copy a link to here , here was a man made disaster, just my two penny worth from Africa, stay safe out there

 

[lonewolf]

depends if its a fast event or a series of slower events.
a fast collapse could leave just a few survivors and a lot of stuff to scavenge, a slow collapse would be the opposite, a lot of survivors-at least in the beginning- and anything left abandoned would be used up quickly.
I dont intend to use scavenging to survive, I plan.

 

[GaRp58]

Good idea planning bp, only too many preppers in Venezuela had planned and prepped, only to find out the gov't had foreseen this and made the chaos sooooo slow and bad that they used all their preps and were left on their own anyway...2-3 years of preps cannot survive 10 years of chaos. Always leave a Plan B.

 

[lonewolf]

true my friend, but its better to prepare than not.
the sheeple will be in a worse state than any prepper, stocks or no.
I should have said, I Plan I prepare.

 

[Oddcaliber]

If you don't have it now than you won't be able to get it later.