priorities & value in hypothetical SHTF scenario

[toexist]

I was reading an article comparing male vs female preppers. Interesting enough most male preppers tend to focus on defensive tools (i.e. weapons ammo etc) where as women tend to focus on food/water preservation/storage. Basically jist of article was that most tend to place over emphasis on defensive weoponary/gear and not enough on things most essential to survival.

The most essential component to survival is water by far as we supposedly cannot survive more than 3 days without it. In the unlikely SHTF WOROL scenario the value of clean water will trump everything else...even food. I would imagine that many people would be forced to trade for water, food, etc.

Just for fun, how do you think the values of certain items will play out? For instance say you own a lot weapons, defensive gear, etc but run out of water food, etc. How much food or water would say a $1,000 gun be worth? Would it be worth a $1,000 worth of water/food ?

I know it may be a ridiculous question to ask. I'm just curious about hypothetical stuff like this. I just wonder if many items that we believed to be valuable would be worth much in such a scenario.

 

[Brent S]

View attachment 6773
I was reading an article comparing male vs female preppers. Interesting enough most male preppers tend to focus on defensive tools (i.e. weapons ammo etc) where as women tend to focus on food/water preservation/storage. Basically jist of article was that most tend to place over emphasis on defensive weoponary/gear and not enough on things most essential to survival.

The most essential component to survival is water by far as we supposedly cannot survive more than 3 days without it. In the unlikely SHTF WOROL scenario the value of clean water will trump everything else...even food. I would imagine that many people would be forced to trade for water, food, etc.

Just for fun, how do you think the values of certain items will play out? For instance say you own a lot weapons, defensive gear, etc but run out of water food, etc. How much food or water would say a $1,000 gun be worth? Would it be worth a $1,000 worth of water/food ?

I know it may be a ridiculous question to ask. I'm just curious about hypothetical stuff like this. I just wonder if many items that we believed to be valuable would be worth much in such a scenario.

Security is most important when you have things worth securing. Your right on here about having priorities in order. I've always told people about the basics of prepping being being water, food, shelter and security. In that order. I also believe that just storing a bunch of canned goods and having a life straw filter isn't near enough. What are you going to do if someone with a bigger gun comes along and takes what you have stashed? Learning to produce food and clean water, and store it safely without refrigeration is a basic skill set that we should all have. Over the last few years I've been focusing on learning to grow and preserve food, including raising animals and cleaning them for their meat. I hear lots of people say they will learn this stuff when and if something bad happens. I quickly learned that gardening is a hell of a lot tougher than I ever imagined. It's taken me five or six years of trial and error before I think I could keep from starving to death, but I still don't think of myself as good at it! Brings to mind a friend told me he just put in a bunch of azaleas and other decorative landscaping. I questioned why he wouldn't plant some edibles as decorative plants. Good luck on eating that stuff. By the way, if you plant a fruit tree it just dosent magically produce fruit instantly. It takes years to get big enough and maintenance along the way. My point here is to start being proactive and learning now.
I do think security is an important aspect of prepping, just not the only, nor most important one. Good thread here.

 

[Brent S]

P.S. Maybe the reason women are more well prepped in multiple areas are they tend to be smarter than us.....

 

[user 6493]

View attachment 6773
I was reading an article comparing male vs female preppers. Interesting enough most male preppers tend to focus on defensive tools (i.e. weapons ammo etc) where as women tend to focus on food/water preservation/storage. Basically jist of article was that most tend to place over emphasis on defensive weoponary/gear and not enough on things most essential to survival.

The most essential component to survival is water by far as we supposedly cannot survive more than 3 days without it. In the unlikely SHTF WOROL scenario the value of clean water will trump everything else...even food. I would imagine that many people would be forced to trade for water, food, etc.

Just for fun, how do you think the values of certain items will play out? For instance say you own a lot weapons, defensive gear, etc but run out of water food, etc. How much food or water would say a $1,000 gun be worth? Would it be worth a $1,000 worth of water/food ?


I know it may be a ridiculous question to ask. I'm just curious about hypothetical stuff like this. I just wonder if many items that we believed to be valuable would be worth much in such a scenario.

so you want to do some trading do you,,,,,,in simple terms the world has become a desperate place to live in ,,,,,HOW MUCH FOOD/WATER IS YOUR LIFE WORTH ,,,,,,,,,,,when it goes to hell and you don't have a way to defend what you have others will take it from you,there will not be much trading,,,,,,,yeah food and water are very valuable but being able to defend yourself is priceless ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[Billy Roper]

I remember an old apocalyptic movie form the 1960's or 1970's called "No Single Blade of Grass". The actress who played in the British comedy "Are you being served?" was in it. There's a line that says that women are born with a built-in survival kit between their legs. When SHTF, and the thin veneer of civilization is peeled away, things are not going to be very nice or politically correct. That's why those who are able have a responsibility, in my view, to help lead and direct those who are without a clue, in those times to come.

 

[toexist]

P.S. Maybe the reason women are more well prepped in multiple areas are they tend to be smarter than us.....

It was a female blogger. Lmfao. Not saying I agree.

 

[toexist]

so you want to do some trading do you,,,,,,in simple terms the world has become a desperate place to live in ,,,,,HOW MUCH FOOD/WATER IS YOUR LIFE WORTH ,,,,,,,,,,,when it goes to hell and you don't have a way to defend what you have others will take it from you,there will not be much trading,,,,,,,yeah food and water are very valuable but being able to defend yourself is priceless ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Of course I agree with you and Brent 100%. I was thinking this applies to me as I already own more than enough guns and ammo however I don't have much water nor food stored. Understand some of us live in urban areas via condo/apartment complexes. We dont all have luxury of planting/growing food or large amounts of land to store water tankers.

All i was thinking was regardless of how much water I store I feel my water supply would be the first concern in those circumstances. Especially when u consider how much water is required for survival. I'd be doooooooomed as of right now.

 

[toexist]

Security is most important when you have things worth securing. Your right on here about having priorities in order. I've always told people about the basics of prepping being being water, food, shelter and security. In that order. I also believe that just storing a bunch of canned goods and having a life straw filter isn't near enough. What are you going to do if someone with a bigger gun comes along and takes what you have stashed? Learning to produce food and clean water, and store it safely without refrigeration is a basic skill set that we should all have. Over the last few years I've been focusing on learning to grow and preserve food, including raising animals and cleaning them for their meat. I hear lots of people say they will learn this stuff when and if something bad happens. I quickly learned that gardening is a hell of a lot tougher than I ever imagined. It's taken me five or six years of trial and error before I think I could keep from starving to death, but I still don't think of myself as good at it! Brings to mind a friend told me he just put in a bunch of azaleas and other decorative landscaping. I questioned why he wouldn't plant some edibles as decorative plants. Good luck on eating that stuff. By the way, if you plant a fruit tree it just dosent magically produce fruit instantly. It takes years to get big enough and maintenance along the way. My point here is to start being proactive and learning now.
I do think security is an important aspect of prepping, just not the only, nor most important one. Good thread here.

I will learn, that is why I'm here. I wonder how much beyond expiration dates will certain foods be good for.

For instance I found buried in back of my fridge some expired never opened hummus. It was over 7 months expired. Curious I opened & it appeared to look fine so I tasted it. I couldn't tell really the difference. I ended up throwing it away cause I didn't want to chance getting sick. I definitely need to learn more about food/water preservation.

 

[lonewolf]

I remember an old apocalyptic movie form the 1960's or 1970's called "No Single Blade of Grass". The actress who played in the British comedy "Are you being served?" was in it. There's a line that says that women are born with a built-in survival kit between their legs. When SHTF, and the thin veneer of civilization is peeled away, things are not going to be very nice or politically correct. That's why those who are able have a responsibility, in my view, to help lead and direct those who are without a clue, in those times to come.

there you go again, with that yoo-hoo I want to be leader crap.
people will have to survive on their own merits, it wont be safe to go out and find a group to join, not until the die off is over and the dust has settled, that may be many months depending on where one is.

 

[Maverick]

Trading with others can be a red herring especially if it becomes known you have goods for trade. OPSEC

The men and women are on the same playing field here at my home, the only difference is the women tend to be more compassionate (generally more so with animals) that may need some oversight. Generally speaking we are in fairly decent shape as far as water/food/shelter goes though nature always has a way of changing our plans thus we can't plan for every situation that may arise.

The OP is almost an impossible question to answer, when on the verge of dehydration or is dehydrated primal instinct becomes the deciding factor, when primal instinct takes over nothing is of value including one's offspring's except water and only water. When a father or mother is faced with starving children and of no hope the parents can become the most dangerous creature on earth including the most docile humans. In a world of no hope we have no humanity nor morality, the compassionate one's become the first target of the despair. None of us can truly say from our comfortable environment today what we will do if face with such dire straits be it from the one's with trade goods or the one's in need. Lets just pray we never have to find out.

 

[toexist]

there you go again, with that yoo-hoo I want to be leader crap.
people will have to survive on their own merits, it wont be safe to go out and find a group to join, not until the die off is over and the dust has settled, that may be many months depending on where one is.

I don't think any of us know exactly how things would play out cause its never happened on such a large scale.

Plus I think many people underestimate just how far out of wack things would have to go for the situation to get to the point were people are thinking it's going to go.

People are much more resilient then many of us seem to believe. Also say an EMP did occur and things went out of wack...

Who is to say people would turn violent right away?

What if even in a world without law communities are united and trade centers are formed. Just cause someone is non violent and willing to trade doesn't mean that he is weak or unwilling/incapable of defending his/herself.

In many urban areas people would be forced to unite out of necessity and self-preservation. Say someone owns a bunch of high end winter coats and another extra of something else...its a lot easier to trade then it would be to fight.

Remember the movie "Fight Club"? That scene were Tyler Durden tasks each of his members with starting a fight with a perfect stranger. Remember the reaction most people attacked had? Most people are reluctant to fight. I know this is just a movie but I feel there is truth to this.

Most people try to make friends with bullies rather than fight. Hence trade is more likely then violence in my opinion.

 

[user 6493]

Of course I agree with you and Brent 100%. I was thinking this applies to me as I already own more than enough guns and ammo however I don't have much water nor food stored. Understand some of us live in urban areas via condo/apartment complexes. We dont all have luxury of planting/growing food or large amounts of land to store water tankers.

All i was thinking was regardless of how much water I store I feel my water supply would be the first concern in those circumstances. Especially when u consider how much water is required for survival. I'd be doooooooomed as of right now.

if you feel doomed at your current location,I would be looking for a bugout location

 

[Maverick]

I don't think any of us know exactly how things would play out cause its never happened on such a large scale.

Plus I think many people underestimate just how far out of wack things would have to go for the situation to get to the point were people are thinking it's going to go.

People are much more resilient then many of us seem to believe. Also say an EMP did occur and things went out of wack...

Who is to say people would turn violent right away?

What if even in a world without law communities are united and trade centers are formed. Just cause someone is non violent and willing to trade doesn't mean that he is weak or unwilling/incapable of defending his/herself.

In many urban areas people would be forced to unite out of necessity and self-preservation. Say someone owns a bunch of high end winter coats and another extra of something else...its a lot easier to trade then it would be to fight.

Remember the movie "Fight Club"? That scene were Tyler Durden tasks each of his members with starting a fight with a perfect stranger. Remember the reaction most people attacked had? Most people are reluctant to fight. I know this is just a movie but I feel there is truth to this.

Most people try to make friends with bullies rather than fight. Hence trade is more likely then violence in my opinion.

If one looks at the violence that propagated during past blackouts is one sign or the violence that followed Katrina or the violence that has spread during a famine. The majority of this nation are unprepared for anything beyond 2 or 3 days, when no relief is in sight 3 days after an event things will go south very very quickly.

Several years ago the Government (EMP Commission) done a study on the catastrophic nationwide event of an EMP/hacking attack/CME (long term grid down) and the effects it would have on the people, one of the conclusion was that 90% of the population would be dead in 2 years with about half being suicides the other half would be sickness and violence. Since such an event has never taken place in modern times we only have past events to form a conclusion.

 

[toexist]

if you feel doomed at your current location,I would be looking for a bugout location

There definitely are disadvantages and yes I am considering relocating. I used to live in a larger home in a 'nicer' area. The thing is there are disadvantages living in a home (in my opinion) as it relates to the topic depending on where you live.

For one, it's privacy. When you live in a home neighbors seem to notice you more and have more immediate access to you.

If you're in a high rise you have several barriers preventing immediate access to you and people don't seem to notice their neighbors as much.

If you live in the middle of nowhere you will be isolated from masses initially. If someone were to approach however...your land would stick out like a sore thumb.

SHTF aside I'd prefer to be more social and interactive with my neighbors. I kind of miss that smaller community feel.

 

[user 6493]

wel

There definitely are disadvantages and yes I am considering relocating. I used to live in a larger home in a 'nicer' area. The thing is there are disadvantages living in a home (in my opinion) as it relates to the topic depending on where you live.

For one, it's privacy. When you live in a home neighbors seem to notice you more and have more immediate access to you.

If you're in a high rise you have several barriers preventing immediate access to you and people don't seem to notice their neighbors as much.

If you live in the middle of nowhere you will be isolated from masses initially. If someone were to approach however...your land would stick out like a sore thumb.

SHTF aside I'd prefer to be more social and interactive with my neighbors. I kind of miss that smaller community feel.

I like the isolation and yes I have a few neighbors but the last visit from one was nearly a year ago,I intentionally let the exterior look run down the yard is unkept and almost always in need of a mowing,,,these people have the impression I am as poor as a church mouse,,,I am of the opinion it is not wise to look prosperous

 

[toexist]

wel

I like the isolation and yes I have a few neighbors but the last visit from one was nearly a year ago,I intentionally let the exterior look run down the yard is unkept and almost always in need of a mowing,,,these people have the impression I am as poor as a church mouse,,,I am of the opinion it is not wise to look prosperous

Do your neighbors prep and would you help them if they needed help?

 

[user 6493]

Do your neighbors prep and would you help them if they needed help?

none of them prep that I know of,and your best friend could become your biggest enemy in a SHTF situation,,,it would be a wait and see type of thing,I am not going to do anything aggressive unless someone else starts first,,,it is more or less up to the neighbors

 

[toexist]

It's funny cause I think as a city boy I always imagined that most people in rural areas were at least semi-preppers.

 

[user 6493]

It's funny cause I think as a city boy I always imagined that most people in rural areas were at least semi-preppers.

when I was young about 45 years ago canning was a big deal then, there were a lot of root cellars around also,,,,we have become to modern,there are not near as many people who put in a garden these days and the root cellar is becoming a thing of the past,,,a garden is a fair amount of work and I don't even want to talk about canning,,,,it is just to easy to go to the local market and buy what you need or want

 

[toexist]

I think I'm going to narrow my gun collection down and use money to invest in other essential items. I never really was a prepper. I was always a firearms enthusiasts but more as a hobbyist. There is a lot to be learned.

 

[Brent S]

If one looks at the violence that propagated during past blackouts is one sign or the violence that followed Katrina or the violence that has spread during a famine. The majority of this nation are unprepared for anything beyond 2 or 3 days, when no relief is in sight 3 days after an event things will go south very very quickly.

Several years ago the Government (EMP Commission) done a study on the catastrophic nationwide event of an EMP/hacking attack/CME (long term grid down) and the effects it would have on the people, one of the conclusion was that 90% of the population would be dead in 2 years with about half being suicides the other half would be sickness and violence. Since such an event has never taken place in modern times we only have past events to form a conclusion.

I sure hope those figures aren't too accurate.

 

[toexist]

I don't think Katrina is a good indicator of how things would play out in most parts of the United States.

Firstly Katrina forced people outside their homes. Imagine someone's safe haven bunker/home being flooded out. All of your supplies/resources wiped out. Everyone in area was essentially homeless immediately after incident. Even in such an extreme case media focused on looters and not at all on the people who did good. People were going out of their way for perfect strangers.

People tend to assume the worst & focus on the negative. I'm not saying that isn't an essential characteristic of survivalism. I'm just saying I believe most people will want and need to believe things will eventually go back to normal. Because of this thinking most will try to do good & resort to trading.

Obviously these are all hypotheticals for an unlikely scenario. Im just trying to simulate how things could play out realistically based on limited examples to go by.

I want to start prepping for peace of mind and not because I believe things will really play out. There are too many variables that would prevent things from escalating to the point that most are preparing for.

Nothing is impossible but it is still unlikely.

 

[DrHenley]

Katrina hit the Mississippi Gulf Coast too, and did much more catastrophic damage there than it did to New Orleans. But you didn't get hear any news stories because people didn't behave the same way they did in New Orleans.

I was on a Red Cross Disaster Action Team in the 1970s and worked a flood in New Orleans. I also worked a flood in Jackson, Mississippi. Night and day difference in the response by the citizens. What happened in New Orleans after Katrina was no surprise to me at all...

 

[toexist]

Katrina hit the Mississippi Gulf Coast too, and did much more catastrophic damage there than it did to New Orleans. But you didn't get hear any news stories because people didn't behave the same way they did in New Orleans.

I was on a Red Cross Disaster Action Team in the 1970s and worked a flood in New Orleans. I also worked a flood in Jackson, Mississippi. Night and day difference in the response by the citizens. What happened in New Orleans after Katrina was no surprise to me at all...

You would know better than me. I would imagine that all sorts of different areas/people/individuals would respond differently.

I've read many articles stating that most looting reports were false and/or exaggerated by media to increase ratings.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...rs_later_the_myths_that_persist_debunked.html

With that being said clearly bad things happened.

 

[lonewolf]

if we're talking about SHTF rather than just a winter storm, where the power goes off-and stays off, that will be the end for the majority of the population of the UK, people who have never lived without electricity will not be able to survive without it, no fuel at the pumps, no electric to cook or freeze their food, no deliveries to the shops, no water from the taps/faucets. most people would be dead within months-not years, no food, no water, most people would be dead in a short time from either starvation, dehydration, or disease, in fact I think more people will die from diseases than by violence-apart from maybe the inner cities where violence will be the norm.
one third of the population would die in the first 3 months, two thirds within 6 months, up to 90% within the first year.
finding someone else to join up with after that will be difficult if not impossible.

 

[lonewolf]

a 10% survival rate in the UK would be around 6 million people, sounds a lot dosent it? but that number is the same as there was in the mid 18th century(around 1750) which sort of puts it into context I think.

 

[Maverick]

If one gets a chance, read a book by Ted Koppel called 'lights out', it uses government numbers on food and water supply and talks about the unprepared in this country.

We are talking a total breakdown on what keeps us civil, much of the information comes from the government (local and federal level)

 

[lonewolf]

I use "War Plan UK" for a lot of information, its based on nuclear war and is very dated being written in the mid 80s, but it gives a lot of insight in to how TPTB-if they survived- would behave in the event of a national emergency, the survival of the population isn't high on their list of priorities. although this stuff is dated, and "civil defence" was disbanded around the date this was printed, I think non of the plans have been withdrawn and are still an option.

 

[Maverick]

One of the problems, When we compare the resiliency of past generations to today's generation we are comparing apples and oranges, the resiliency of today is based on modern technology and conveniences none of which will exist in short order after a total grid down. As Paul stated earlier, no tap water no food being transported to stores, no life saving meds, hospitals will be overwhelmed, how many will stick around to bury the dead? We have 11 cities with over a million people in them, resources will run out quickly causing the masses to venture further and further out not counting 150 cities with 300,000 or more people, we have 365 million people in this country, I will say famine will come in short order. No, we can't really compare to local events as I have above, I was only illustrating the breakdown. Most of these cities will bank on hope that the government will come in and save them, in a total grid down the people will not be the first priority of the government, the first priority is putting critical infrastructure back on line such as communication, law enforcement, airports, hospitals etc... The government doesn't have the resources to take care of the people without outside resources. Hunger breeds violence and that is a known fact many times over!

I don't put much faith on humanity thus one of the reasons why I prep, I'm under no illusion people will behave in a civil order 30 days out without food and water readily available. As I stated in an earlier post, the compassionate one's will be an early target of the unprepared.

 

[lonewolf]

my parents came through WW2 as did wife's parents.
people alive today have never been through a life changing event like that, not on home soil, and that is why they are so complascent.
when something happens to upset their cosy little world they wont know what to do.
30 days Maverick?? hell most of them will be on their last legs dying of starvation by then, or dehydration, or the cold. I think a lot of people will be surprised just how quickly people will perish.