Setting up the Ideal homestead or retreat small community for even tougher times

[Tirediron]

This is a spin off of an Idea that @montanabill mentioned in the Are you ready thread (my reply https://www.homesteadingforum.org/t...na-be-a-rough-couple-years.39129/post-1079923 ) , The first problem would be location and or climate

 

[Tirediron]

Climate and location would be a personal and need specific. thing. as well as what caused the need or want to build the place.
I would go with this scenario:
In the recovery period from the NWO woking the world, things just get less viable, perhaps the nice retirement income just fades out and the grid just keeps getting worse.

 

[sonya123]

I would be interested to know who on this forum could actually survive without society for any amount of time, even short time. People that need constant medical care would obviously be out, so would people living in cities with only a tiny yard or nothing. You need land to homestead. We know some people here that are trying to stuff an entire homestead with sheep, chickens , greenhouse, garden on a few acres and it;s not working out so well for them. I have had to go over there and deworm their sheep and we have transported a hay bale for them ( round) because they don't even have a truck. So you need starter capital or inherit land. Building house is super expensive, plus you have to go by all sorts of codes now, so it would be much easier and cheaper to buy land with some sort of house on it, even it it is crappy. ( that's what we did)

 

[Amish Heart]

Agree with you there about the land and crappy house. We have a crappy house. And land.
Climate is an issue, and a personal preference, and whether or not a middle of nowhere is preferred or landspace in a community, like an amish one.
Climate is going to dictate what you can grow and what animals you can raise. Also how hard it is to keep cool or warm.

 

[Mountain trapper]

Everyone's needs are different and every location is different. Originally I wanted a few thousand acres, but had to settle for only a few hundred acres. But at least it's surrounded by hundreds of thousands of acres of National Forest lands. In this area it takes roughly 20 acres to feed one cow for about 7 months. We have good soil, in places, for gardening. We also have a short growing season. Usually our last snow is in late June, but we manage to grow a lot of stuff.
Land prices are very high right now, and I don't see them coming down in our lifetime. Especially in states where the government "owns" well over half of the land. In many areas in the mid west, south and east land and house prices are much less than out west. For most people it will take many years of constant saving to be able to afford even a small homestead. My original strategy was to buy a house and sell it every 5 years, then buy a house for double. Then I started buying land (timber land, ranch land). It worked out pretty well. In a few years we'll probably sell this place, or give it to the grandkids and start scaling down.

 

[montanabill]

Good thread Tirediron.... It also demonstrates all the different mindsets of people from different areas and different backgrounds.

it seems almost any discussion like this quickly fragments into people standing in their corner throwing comments at one another like a snowball fight.....

It seems to come down to nothing will work unless you have this or that and live in this climate or that climate. I think people are much more adaptable to many things.....and especially when things get desperate and their kids are starving..

My point is the crash is almost upon us....if nothing happens and things go along all wonderful then great. That needs no more than normal everyday planning.

Just today tho gold is $2,985.00 so that means my paper dollars are going down in value.... Political infighting and hit lists and assassinations seem to be growing. So at this point it would seem even a poor plan would be better than no plan.

So call it fantasy football/prepper survival or whatever. Could people come together and make a group work for the intense time during and just after a major nation wide event happens? Karen doesn't know anything about farming or gardening but she has worked for years in a urgent care patching up people...she might not have the equipment but Billy joe has been collecting surplus medical supplies for years but faints at the sight of blood. Joe bob don't know much but he has been doing hard farm labor for years and actually enjoys it. And the list goes on..

I just think there is potential for surviving and thriving in places around the country if people are willing to work together. Not in a commune forever and one person accumulates all the wealth but more of a employee owned business and the business is survival.

 

[Tirediron]

One big thing is in my opinion community, when things get rougher, strangers/ newbies are going to get the stink eye. also knowing you location, things longer term weather patterns what foraging is available etc is pretty important. People just jumping in Like sonya pointed out have a deep learning curve. and in a subsistence situation you can't run anywhere near capacity. for example 10 acres per cow per year is kind of the accepted stocking rate around here. but that might be due to fertilizer being available etc. Chances are in a need to subsistance those extras just won't be there. so cut the stocking rate in half at least. All manner of things to think about, like equipment, can you get parts, better yet can you make parts, new stuff with all the electronic nightmares are already causing problems,

 

[montanabill]

Great points Tirediron....
And yes there is a steep learning curve... if you start from zero or just from reading about it or watching you tubes.. This is why I am advocating finding your tribe right now while you have time to check each other out and get to know what skills are available that don't need study and practice... Some people will be usefull and some won't.
I can rewind the pump motor if someone else can spend days hoeing the garden. The person on the hoe doesn't know anything about what I do and that's OK, the classes can happen in the winter..

The other thing I run into is what is it I am preparing for...at one time it was total collapse so we would burn the bridges leading to our area and carry on. Seems like now it is more likely to be widespread economic and transportation collapse and maybe a grid down situation... But I certainly don't know for sure.
I do know a local mini mart just raised the price of a 20 ounce pepsi to $3.49.

 

[elkhound]

one thing to is best ideal or fantasy type thing..we pick perfect places and scenarios.

well can you adapt to a less than not notch spot or your ability?

 

[LadyLocust]

Great points Tirediron....
And yes there is a steep learning curve... if you start from zero or just from reading about it or watching you tubes.. This is why I am advocating finding your tribe right now while you have time to check each other out and get to know what skills are available that don't need study and practice... Some people will be usefull and some won't.
I can rewind the pump motor if someone else can spend days hoeing the garden. The person on the hoe doesn't know anything about what I do and that's OK, the classes can happen in the winter..

The other thing I run into is what is it I am preparing for...at one time it was total collapse so we would burn the bridges leading to our area and carry on. Seems like now it is more likely to be widespread economic and transportation collapse and maybe a grid down situation... But I certainly don't know for sure.
I do know a local mini mart just raised the price of a 20 ounce pepsi to $3.49.

You brought to light a point that hasn’t been mentioned yet. I can stitch, garden, run a saw. I’m guessing if someone else who didn’t have the physical capacity for the garden or saw work but could stitch- I’d be doing the physical work but what happens if it’s more long term? We won’t be able to do the physical work forever. Also the number of folks who are physically unfit is through the roof so there would be some serious rules of no worky, no eaty.

 

[Neb]

one thing to is best ideal or fantasy type thing..we pick perfect places and scenarios.

well can you adapt to a less than not notch spot or your ability?

Adapt or die.

Time will tell for myself. I was blessed with like minded siblings. Enough for the basis of a tribe.

I once priced out a homestead for our tribe. The deal to make that happen disappeared. Not in my budget. But I believe God cares for us and has plans for us. I can only guess work and pray until we figure it out.

Ben

 

[Neb]

You brought to light a point that hasn’t been mentioned yet. I can stitch, garden, run a saw. I’m guessing if someone else who didn’t have the physical capacity for the garden or saw work but could stitch- I’d be doing the physical work but what happens if it’s more long term? We won’t be able to do the physical work forever. Also the number of folks who are physically unfit is through the roof so there would be some serious rules of no worky, no eaty.

The answer is kids and lots of em.

Large families are an asset.

Tongue in cheek

The Amish are strategic and don't need another hobby.

Tongue removed from cheek.

Ben

 

[Amish Heart]

The answer is kids and lots of em.

Large families are an asset.

Tongue in cheek

The Amish are strategic and don't need another hobby.

Tongue removed from cheek.

Ben

Their hobbies tend to be useful ones. You might need a bed quilt, but who says it can't also be for pretty?
I find it useful in a community, too, to do things as a group. Not only does it teach an activity to the ones that don't know what they're doing yet, but it makes it more fun and less work. Like when our neighborhood butchers chickens. It's done on one of our porches, and I taught neighbor Kathy how to the first time. And taught other neighbor Luella how to butcher a turkey for the first time. And we have lunch, too, and the kids all play, and it becomes a good day and not a chore. I'm almost old enough to be Kathy's and Luella's grandma, and now they work faster than I do. So train people to carry on when you start ageing out.

 

[montanabill]

Great comments....My fantasy is to have various hard workers or knowledgeable folks that you chose beforehand...
The sad fact is that not everyone can show up without supplies or workable knowledge and expect for the group to survive.
But if people are willing to be flexible and adapt and accept teaching it could work out.
A motivating factor that I see on a very basic level is if people have children or grand children they tend to want to do more so the youngsters survive.
The perfect climate and land fertility is nice but what if that isn't going to happen? I stock winter coats and boots in various sizes for people I haven't even met yet.

Gardening in less than ideal places is possible with soil amendments...or locating the garden next to rivers in places like where I am in montana.

I guess my point is a small group should be able to survive in most situations that are warmer than arctic... But it does take foresight and planning and cooperation.

Near where this photo was taken are the ruins of a catholic boarding school for the children of the blackfeet tribe. The sisters and jesuits lived there and raised their own livestock and chickens for food as well as gardens. The sisters did most all the work....

 

[Tirediron]

Two of my neighbors both said that people who usually want a 1/4 or 1/2 beef all wanted whole beef this round. No body that I know is spending on anything they don't have to. One neighbor has already mentioned wanting on the rototilling list (i have a nice tiller for one of my little tractors that does a really nice job) and we don't start till late april early may.
Right now it looks like things will slowly grind to a halt, and that will make it harder for people to realize that they need to be self sufficient.
Elkhound is right, this will probably be a Do with what you have situation, not a when I get the idea thing

 

[lonewolf]

for a start any sort of homestead or rural community would be very different in the UK than it would in the US, the UK being smaller than the US, an Island vs a Continent.
however during WW2 British people kept Rabbits and Chickens to supplement their rations, and that is the point, in Britain post collapse we will be keeping smaller animals, not everyone will be keeping cattle and even if they did we could keep Dexter cattle which are a smaller breed and good for both milk and meat. personally with only me and the wife cattle would be the last thing on my list.
as for growing food its more about successive sowings than actual quantity as I know from my own veg growing, and storing the grown food for winter use, its about food production for our own use rather than any kind of financial reward.