Solar power

[Brent S]

At one point, I talked to the guy who ran the solar thing at Calhoun, from its inception.

He said, if he was going to do it on his dime, he’d buy good panels off eBay, but put his money in the batteries.

The worst part of it all is that you have to get good information, and there are a ton of opinions out there on batteries. And everyone knows that opinions are like ********, and whoever is selling ‘system a’ will promise you that theirs is the bestest ever, and the same for every other system.

I’ve considered Tesla batteries, but I don’t know how long they’ll be in business.

Lithium batteries have a pretty good life span now. They are the best thing out right now but are still crazy expensive. The return on investment just isn’t even close yet. The only pro is if your somewhere power isn’t available or just want the independence from the grid. A lot of people say they want the reliability of their own system vs the grid, but with weather and maintenance, your own system isn’t any more reliable than the grid.

 

[jeff miller]

Not much of a balance, but yea do what u can when u can. Only 2% of the 7% prepping have the funds to do all that needs to be done fast, but then there not living the life.

 

[Mountain trapper]

ROI (Return On Investment) is not there on Solar Systems. In normal situations, they will not pay for themselves. If you are like Arcticdude, then it pays. The weak point in the Solar System and a very expensive weak point point is the Battery Bank. High quality batteries are very expensive and have a relative short life span, compared to the rest of the system. If you can isolate the circuits to critical (refrigerator / freezer) vs. non-critical (washer / dryer) components, the battery bank can be held to a minimum, thus reducing the cost. As with all things, there will be a trade off. You will have 24/7/ 365 use of refrigerators but you will only be able to do the laundry during daytime and on sunny days.

My system is designed to run everything in the house shop and cabin at the same time 24/7/365. That doesn't mean that the solar and battery bank will run everything at once on it's own 24/7, it wont, but part of my system includes a 12 kw Perkins diesel generator with an auto start. During high demand, and whenever the battery bank drops below 24 volts the generator automatically starts and will cover the load. When our house is finished we'll have a large electric refrigerator, two chest freezers, electric washing machine, central AC and heat with a heat pump. Plus my wife has every electric appliance known to man. Water heater, cooking, clothes dryer, and furnace are all propane.
My system has preformed flawlessly so far. Except for last winter when we had an early cold spell and the fuel gelled before I had a chance to treat it. That was my fault not the electric system.
I do believe that with the 30% Federal tax credit, and possible state and local incentives, that solar can pay for itself over time. It's well worth considering. Everything in the system, including buildings, generator, labor, concrete and equipment all quality for the tax credits. If you go solar keep track of every expense that goes into your system.

 

[JackDW]

Just adding my 2cents worth (worth less than a penny these days). I am just in the planning stages. Hope to get phase one started later this year. Phase one will be the learning stage. I hope to setup a couple solar panels (cheap Amazon panels). I will start with an inexpensive charge controller that I can upgrade later as I build the system and finally determine what I really want. Current question, is batteries. In phase 1, don't need a lot of battery power but want to make sure I use something that will be compatible as I grow the system. Phase 1 will be approx. 1,000 watt Pure Sinewave inverter. Don't need that much initially, but I may as well plan ahead.

The panels will be mounted on wood structures on the outside corner of the house. Power will feed into the crawlspace under the house to the charge controller and batteries. I will mount a small breaker box near the batteries and inverter and run the power from the invertor into this breaker box. I will then run 12guage wiring to one outlet box in the den and one to the bedroom. The solar power will be connected to separate outlets that are no way connected to any other power. I can the use these outlets to power lower powered item such as TVs and maybe lap tops.

This will allow me to gain experience with solar systems and I can expand the system as I go. Eventually, I hope to grow it enough to power the refrigerator / freezer and other larger items but I will have to grow into that. Yes, this will be a slow process but it will allow me to walk before I run. With this approach, I should be able to handle everything myself. Biggest thing for me, I will, in no way, even come close to tying into the current power grid.

Additional consideration for me. I will be relocating from Raleigh NC to the Charlotte, NC area in a year or so. Since I am mounting everything in modules, I should be about to just pick everything up and move it. So, I will not permanently mount anything in my initial stages. When I get to the point that I move it to it's permanent location, I should have enough experience to avoid some of the "rookie" mistakes that I WILL make.

 

[Brent S]

I got one 100w panel, a 2000w pure sine wave inverter, two agm batteries and a charge controller. Also usable links for the battery cables. I mounted all that in my camper and haven’t finished all the connections yet but could in an hour or so. The good thing about our business is money is good, the bad is we seem to always be really busy and it’s easy to drop projects and take a long time to get back to them. The camper was supposed to be my trial run before setting up something for the house. One of these days I will get back on track!

 

[Mountain trapper]

Just adding my 2cents worth (worth less than a penny these days). I am just in the planning stages. Hope to get phase one started later this year. Phase one will be the learning stage. I hope to setup a couple solar panels (cheap Amazon panels). I will start with an inexpensive charge controller that I can upgrade later as I build the system and finally determine what I really want. Current question, is batteries. In phase 1, don't need a lot of battery power but want to make sure I use something that will be compatible as I grow the system. Phase 1 will be approx. 1,000 watt Pure Sinewave inverter. Don't need that much initially, but I may as well plan ahead.

The panels will be mounted on wood structures on the outside corner of the house. Power will feed into the crawlspace under the house to the charge controller and batteries. I will mount a small breaker box near the batteries and inverter and run the power from the invertor into this breaker box. I will then run 12guage wiring to one outlet box in the den and one to the bedroom. The solar power will be connected to separate outlets that are no way connected to any other power. I can the use these outlets to power lower powered item such as TVs and maybe lap tops.

This will allow me to gain experience with solar systems and I can expand the system as I go. Eventually, I hope to grow it enough to power the refrigerator / freezer and other larger items but I will have to grow into that. Yes, this will be a slow process but it will allow me to walk before I run. With this approach, I should be able to handle everything myself. Biggest thing for me, I will, in no way, even come close to tying into the current power grid.

Additional consideration for me. I will be relocating from Raleigh NC to the Charlotte, NC area in a year or so. Since I am mounting everything in modules, I should be about to just pick everything up and move it. So, I will not permanently mount anything in my initial stages. When I get to the point that I move it to it's permanent location, I should have enough experience to avoid some of the "rookie" mistakes that I WILL make.

Sounds like a good plan. However, I'd advise caution with using cheap components. Like everything else, buy the best product that you can afford. Especially if you'll eventually be powering your home with it, you'll want a dependable system.
Also, be aware that if you plan to add additional batteries to your battery bank at a later date you may not be able to. For my system I chose 8 Crown 860AH lead acid batteries wired for 24VDC for 20,640 watt hours. I was told that if I wanted to add additional batteries that I'd have to do it within a year. This may not apply to other types of batteries but it does for lead acid.
I had the resources to go with any type of battery bank currently available. After I did my research and talking with battery "experts" I went with lead acid batteries. They do require some periodic maintenance and cleaning though.
My solar array is 10 each American made 295 watt panels mounted on top of a 24 foot 8" diameter schedule 80 pipe buried 6' deep in 8 yards of concrete. I put the panels up this high so I wouldn't have to cut any trees for the winter sun.
I have a 12 kw liquid cooled diesel generator to cover any additional power needed. Currently I have a 55 gallon fuel tank dedicated to the generator but have a 285 gallon tank on order.
The generator, inverter, battery bank, power panel, extra parts and all other related components are housed in a seperate building.
For my system I wanted everything to be as automatic and easy to maintain as possible. In the past year or so that I've been on solar power I've has zero problems with it.
Good luck with your system, and remember to save all receipts for tax time.

 

[Mountain trapper]

.

 

[mak270]

Thanks for the info I'll be using it.I'm with you on getting off the grid, the grid is so weak might not last anyway.

if you go solar I would sugest getting an "mppt" charge controller, it takes all the headache out of worring wether you are overcharging or undercharging your batteries. it knows when to float charge or bulk charge. and make sure you use deep cycle batteries. if you are even a little bit handy and can follow instructions, you can install your own system. doing it your self is where you save the big bucks!

 

[Mountain trapper]

The construction process on our house has been the real test on how well our solar electric system works. You can add up your electrical devices and light bulbs etc to try and calculate your anticipated electric usage, but I just guessed on my system.
Even on a cloudy day I'm producing enough "free" power to run the builders air compressor, table saw, floor sander and all the lights in the house. Plus the refrigerator in the cabin.
Since I'm running a chicken brooder during the night, it does cause the generator to start up around midnight - 3 am and run for 3 hours.
I'm happy with solar so far.

 

[Mountain trapper]

Solar update.
Over the last 2 weeks I had some overheating problems with our charge controller. The controller would heat up and trip a breaker shutting off the solar panels. After awhile the batteries would run down and the generator would automatically start up.
We had very hot weather here, up to 90 degs and I was running the AC in the cabin. The builders also had their table saws, air compressors and lights on at the same time. I think I found the limit on our solar system.
I added a small fan to help cool the charge controller, and since it's cooled down to the mid 50's I don't need the AC.
So far this has been the only problem that we've had with our solar system.
I heard that this is the last year that the Feds are offering the full 30% tax credits. Next year it drops to 24% and after that it's drops to 6%.
With that in mind I'm going to buy another backup generator before the end of the year to run the well pump.

 

[Brent S]

Solar update.
Over the last 2 weeks I had some overheating problems with our charge controller. The controller would heat up and trip a breaker shutting off the solar panels. After awhile the batteries would run down and the generator would automatically start up.
We had very hot weather here, up to 90 degs and I was running the AC in the cabin. The builders also had their table saws, air compressors and lights on at the same time. I think I found the limit on our solar system.
I added a small fan to help cool the charge controller, and since it's cooled down to the mid 50's I don't need the AC.
So far this has been the only problem that we've had with our solar system.
I heard that this is the last year that the Feds are offering the full 30% tax credits. Next year it drops to 24% and after that it's drops to 6%.
With that in mind I'm going to buy another backup generator before the end of the year to run the well pump.

I wasn’t aware that a generator qualified for the credit. I believed it was just the solar system, batteries and labor.

 

[Mountain trapper]

I wasn’t aware that a generator qualified for the credit. I believed it was just the solar system, batteries and labor.

It was my understanding that anything related to an off grid system qualified for the tax credits. But be sure and check with your tax accountant before claiming the credits.

 

[Proud Prepper]

The batteries do not qualify. Most generators do not qualify.

 

[Mountain trapper]

The batteries do not qualify. Most generators do not qualify.

I don't know the details, which is why I recommend having a tax accountant figure it out. But my batteries, generators and everything else related to my electric system qualified for the 30% Federal tax credits.

 

[Proud Prepper]

From my turbo tax professional. You only get this if you owe the amount in federal tax.

Taxpayers who upgrade their homes to make use of renewable energy may be eligible for a tax credit to offset some of the costs. As of the 2018 tax year, the federal government offers the Nonbusiness Energy Property Credit. The credits are good through 2019 and then are reduced each year through the end of 2021. Claim the credits by filing Form 5695 with your tax return.

Residential Renewable Energy Tax Credit
Equipment that qualifies for the Residential Renewable Energy Tax Credit includes solar, wind, geothermal and fuel-cell technology:

• 
  
  
  • Solar panels, or photovoltaics, for generating electricity. The electricity must be used in the home.
  • Solar-powered water heaters. The water heated by the system must be used inside the home, and at least half of the home's water-heating capacity must be solar. (Solar heaters for swimming pools and hot tubs do not qualify.)
  • Wind turbines that generate up to 100 kilowatts of electricity for residential use.
  • Geothermal heat pumps that meet federal Energy Star guidelines.
  • Fuel cells that rely on a renewable resource (usually hydrogen) to generate power for a home. The equipment must generate at least 0.5 kilowatts of power.

Renewable energy tax credit details
According to the U.S. Department of Energy, you can claim the Residential Energy Efficiency Property Credit for solar, wind, and geothermal equipment in both your principal residence and a second home. But fuel-cell equipment qualifies only if installed in your principal residence.

• 
  
  
  • The credit is equal to 30% of the cost, including installation.
  • There is no upper limit on the amount of the credit for solar, wind and geothermal equipment.
  • The maximum tax credit for fuel cells is $500 for each half-kilowatt of power capacity, or $1,000 for each kilowatt.
    • For example, a fuel cell with a 5 kW capacity would qualify for 5 x $1,000 = $5,000 tax credit.

Nonbusiness Energy Property Tax Credit (Expired December 31, 2017)
For tax years prior to 2018, equipment and materials can qualify for the Nonbusiness Energy Property Credit only if they meet the standards set by the Department of Energy. The manufacturer can tell you whether a particular item meets those standards.

For this credit, the IRS distinguishes between two kinds of upgrades.

The first is "qualified energy efficiency improvements," and it includes:

• 
  
  
  • Home insulation
  • Exterior doors
  • Exterior windows and skylights
  • Certain roofing materials

The second category is "residential energy property costs." It includes:

• 
  
  
  • Electric heat pumps
  • Electric heat pump water heaters
  • Central air conditioning systems
  • Natural gas, propane or oil water heaters
  • Stoves that use biomass fuel
  • Natural gas, propane or oil furnaces
  • Natural gas, propane or oil hot water boilers
  • Advanced circulating fans for natural gas, propane or oil furnaces

Details of nonbusiness tax credit
You can claim a tax credit for 10% of the cost of qualified energy efficiency improvements and 100% of residential energy property costs. This credit is worth a maximum of $500 for all years combined, from 2006 to the present. Of that combined $500 limit,

• 
  
  
  • A maximum of $200 can be for windows.
  • The maximum tax credit for a furnace circulating fan is $50.
  • The maximum credit for a furnace or boiler is $150.
  • The maximum credit for any other single residential energy property cost is $300.

 

[lonewolf]

this is a DOOMSDAY preppers forum and yet your all applying for tax credits?? hilarious!!!

 

[Mountain trapper]

this is a DOOMSDAY preppers forum and yet your all applying for tax credits?? hilarious!!!

Damn right. Why not? If it helps to make you more self sufficient and independent, and reduces your costs, isn't that part of prepping?

 

[lonewolf]

I somehow doubt that is the real reason.
tax credits aren't why I prep.
i'm retired, I don't pay tax.

 

[Mountain trapper]

I somehow doubt that is the real reason.
tax credits aren't why I prep.
i'm retired, I don't pay tax.

Whatever BP. But most of us here would take advantage of reducing our tax liability any chance we can. I'm retired too but my wife still works and some of my investments generate a tax liability.
If you don't have any tax to pay then this conversation doesn't apply to you. But in my case the tax credits from my solar system has saved me and my wife over $25,000 in taxes in the last 2 years. That's money that can be used elsewhere. Like buying livestock, which provides additional tax benefits, but that's for another thread.

 

[Brent S]

I somehow doubt that is the real reason.
tax credits aren't why I prep.
i'm retired, I don't pay tax.

I wish I could get away without paying taxes!

 

[lonewolf]

I don't pay direct tax or income tax but I pay tax on stuff I buy.

 

[Mountain trapper]

With our recent hot weather (85 degs) I've been having problems with my charge controller over heating and causing a breaker to trip. After many calls to the company that I bought the equipment from it turns out that the charge controller is too small for the number of solar panels I have. They're producing too much power! Anyway the company is going to send me a larger charge controller at no cost.
I also asked for a quote on a wind turbine and for 6 additional panels.
We usually don't get enough wind here in summer, with today being an exception, to get much out of a wind turbine. But we do in fall, winter and spring when the solar won't be putting out much power. I'll buy the turbine and additional panels this summer but I may not be able to get it all connected before spring.

 

[Mountain trapper]

I just started researching wind generators today. Does anyone here know anything about Automaxx Wind Mills? They have a 1500 watt, 24v 60 amp wind turbine with built in charge controller. It can be wired directly to your battery bank. It starts producing minimal power at 5.6 mph. The price is $1500. I don't know if that's a good price or not. The reviews on it were mostly favorable.
I'm planning on mounting it on a 45'-60' tower on top of the hill behind the solar panel site, provided that I can get a crane up there.

 

[tmttactical]

Be sure and look into how they are disconnected in the event of a big wind storm. Many Wind turbines fail due to excessive wind. Too little wind and no power, too much wind and no wind turbine.

 

[Mountain trapper]

Good point. This turbine has an automatic brake if the winds are too high. With my limited internet I couldn't open up the spec sheet to know what speed it starts braking. Or if the blades automatically change angle in high winds to prevent damage.

 

[JackDW]

I was considering installing some solar panels next year t0 build a off-grid system. Will not be tied into any existing electrical system. Will be a stand alone system with stand alone outlets in several rooms in the house. Hope to run the refrigerator and TVs. That will allow us to have power when the system is out and not rely just in the generator.

One item that I need done this year is the removal of several (4) trees that are between the house, power lines and roads. Cannot just be dropped so this will be a "high dollar" item. Also, these trees are on the south side of the house meaning they are in the way of any solar panels. They will have to be gone before I can install the solar system.

BING, BING, after reading the TAX CREDIT, it seems to include ALL EXPENSEs for installing the system. Since the trees have to be removed before I can install the system, I should be able to include that tree removal expense in the TAX CREDIT. Getting a 30% tax credit now makes the tree removal something I can live with. I just need to purchase and install the solar system before year end to justify the deduction. As I read the rules, I don't actually have to complete the installation before year end as long as I have started it. But, I want to get it all done during the same period so the IRS will have not reason to question any expense. I don't want to mess with the IRS.

 

[Mountain trapper]

I was considering installing some solar panels next year t0 build a off-grid system. Will not be tied into any existing electrical system. Will be a stand alone system with stand alone outlets in several rooms in the house. Hope to run the refrigerator and TVs. That will allow us to have power when the system is out and not rely just in the generator.

One item that I need done this year is the removal of several (4) trees that are between the house, power lines and roads. Cannot just be dropped so this will be a "high dollar" item. Also, these trees are on the south side of the house meaning they are in the way of any solar panels. They will have to be gone before I can install the solar system.

BING, BING, after reading the TAX CREDIT, it seems to include ALL EXPENSEs for installing the system. Since the trees have to be removed before I can install the system, I should be able to include that tree removal expense in the TAX CREDIT. Getting a 30% tax credit now makes the tree removal something I can live with. I just need to purchase and install the solar system before year end to justify the deduction. As I read the rules, I don't actually have to complete the installation before year end as long as I have started it. But, I want to get it all done during the same period so the IRS will have not reason to question any expense. I don't want to mess with the IRS.

I bought my solar equipment 2 years ago and didn't install it untill last year. I was able to take advantage of the tax credits over 2 years so far. I'm planning on adding 4 more 325 watt panels for a total of 14 panels and 4550 watts. Plus I'm going to add a 1500 watt wind turbine. I'll buy this equipment this year, take the 30% credit, and install it next year, again taking the credits. The tax credit drops to 24% (I think) for 2020 and much less after that. The credits cover; equipment, tree removal, concrete, crane, excavation, labor etc.
FYI, if any of the Socialist candidates currently running for office win, there could be electric shortages in the future. Or at the very least the rates will skyrocket. I'm not trying to bring politics in to this conversation, but this is part of their plan and we should all prepare for it.

 

[JackDW]

Thanks Arctic for the additional information. Yep, I going to try to fit in as much as I can this year while the Tax Credit is at it's max. I also agree that we can expect massive rate increases when (it is not a matter of "if" but "when") the democrats get back in charge.

 

[tmttactical]

Once the Liberals get back in power, they will also be attempting to charge you for your Solar power consumption, to help balance out the charges for the less fortunate.

 

[Mountain trapper]

Once the Liberals get back in power, they will also be attempting to charge you for your Solar power consumption, to help balance out the charges for the less fortunate.

That's already happening in some areas. Any time that you have to buy a permit from the government for anything, it's the same as paying a tax. Also some utility companies have managed to bill people on solar. Their reasoning is that they're losing revenue. I'm not too worried about any of this in my area.